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Commissioner [997]
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Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 11:25 AM
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When did the guy become this modern day hero? All I remember is negative stuff about him (ie loud mouth, Muzzie convert, draft dodger, anti-American etc). When/how did he become this icon of Americana? Did I miss something while I was serving on active duty in the USMC during the decade of the 90s? Did he do something like apologize all over himself and give a bazillion $s to fallen vets and Viet Nam causes? Honest question. If the dude renounced all that crap from the 60s and 70s and came back to Christ, I didn't hear about it.
All I remember is watching his fights along with my Mom and Dad and all of our neighbors in the 70s and EVERYONE rooting against him no matter who he was fighting.
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CU Medallion [55333]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 11:35 AM
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When he became good friends with Howard William Cosell!!!
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Orange Blooded [2432]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 11:39 AM
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Why is that in u r opinion? Did it bother u r family because of the draft or Islam by converting from Christianity?I bet u the later. Could be a black fighter and the skin of his color. You only can answer this.
He is an American Muslim that Trump and most people on this would like him deported sadly to say.
He is dead now and let's just say a prayer for him to bless and move on.
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Orange Blooded [3964]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 11:47 AM
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Not sure Trump would try that. Something about that word "Illegal" in Illegal Immigrants people can't comprehend.
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Commissioner [941]
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Picture says a thousand words
Jun 4, 2016, 12:03 PM
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The guy before you.....Biased/opinionated.
Show pic of young Trump and Ali chillin in black and white.
Show pic of old Trump presenting award to old Ali.
Drop Mic, and receive thumbs up!
Thanks.
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Orange Blooded [2432]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 12:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay... ] |
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Illegal Mexicans but all Muslims legal or not until we know why they hate us.
Hitler did that to all Jews. Collective punishment is not in our fabric unless u r Isis. That is what makes us great and different in that we respect the individual.
I don't want to make this political because it is not the place and the only reason why I am here is for my love of the Tigers. But I am going to answer trump on why they hate us. just look for our help to the state of Israel and displacing Arabs (Muslims and Christians) to gather the Jews again and we done it for decades now. Needless to say the $3 billion aid to the state of Israel. So my fellow Americans, how do u like if this happening to you. If we were at war with Mexico and Columbia was supporting Mexico financially, I think we will attack Columbia if we can. Remember the bush slogan: " you are with us or with them.." Plus we and the state of Israel are not killing Arabs, but our best friend in the Middle East is in the business of land grapping by legal means that they declared as the law of the land .. This is the truth that many don't like to hear and no where u will find it with hanity fox or cnn.
Look somewhere else for facts ...
god bless America because it is the greatest nation on earth. We a bit misguided to the conflict in the Middle East and it is spelling to our homes here ..
I say take care of #1 and the heck with everyone else.
Go tigers tonight
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110%er [7718]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 1:22 PM
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You're an idiot
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Orange Blooded [2432]
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god bless u but u cannot argue with facts but name calling***
Jun 4, 2016, 1:30 PM
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Walk-On [102]
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anti-semite much ? just asking***
Jun 4, 2016, 1:32 PM
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Orange Blooded [2432]
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not anti anyone -- r u trump?
Jun 4, 2016, 1:42 PM
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Why cannot u see a simple fact and u resort to insults.
All I said is they hate us mr Trumb because we are supporting one side over another in a conflict. So which part u don't understand???
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Walk-On [102]
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what insult ? would you please show me where this statement
Jun 4, 2016, 1:48 PM
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is not anti-Semite . " Plus we and the state of Israel are not killing Arabs, but our best friend in the Middle East is in the business of land grapping by legal means that they declared as the law of the land .. This is the truth that many don't like to hear and no where u will find it with hanity fox or cnn. "
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Orange Blooded [2432]
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how do u know that it is not factual ?to be called anti
Jun 4, 2016, 1:51 PM
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Semite is An insult ...
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Walk-On [102]
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how do you know it is ?***
Jun 4, 2016, 1:52 PM
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Orange Blooded [2432]
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Re: how do you know it is ?***
Jun 4, 2016, 1:58 PM
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Because I know several people lost their land and no compensation due to laws in the state of Israel ..
There are several laws that targeting this land grabbing
I'll give u one: if the land is not being used in 3 years, the state owns it.
Look it up. Severl laws as well and this is not the place for it ..
Go get friends from the other side and find out to yourself. Better yet, go visit and see what cases are pending in Israeli courts due to land grabbing and how their laws are positioned for land grabbing .. u live in a dream
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Hall of Famer [24700]
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I doubt he even knows the meaning of "anti-semite"...***
Jun 4, 2016, 2:02 PM
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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both Jews and Palestinians are Semitic***
Jun 4, 2016, 2:08 PM
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Walk-On [102]
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true, but is arabic now considered an semitic language ?
Jun 4, 2016, 2:38 PM
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i am honestly unsure of this answer. i just believe t.n. was coming down a little harsh
on the Jewish faith (peoples). i consider myself christian, although i don't go to church, so i don't really have a dog in the disagreement. i feel his statement attacked them, and he was acting like he wasn't anti-anything.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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uh yes it is. And on the faith thing
Jun 4, 2016, 3:35 PM
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Former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak has been very critical of the current Israeli government being overtaken by hardliners. Go read an Israeli newspaper and you will find more criticism of Israel in one day than you will hear in your whole lifetime from American Media.
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Athletic Dir [881]
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Both Jews and Arabs are Semites
Jun 4, 2016, 4:07 PM
[ in reply to true, but is arabic now considered an semitic language ? ] |
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They both are children of Abraham. Some Palestinians are descended from Samaritans who practiced Judaism, but were not Jewish. There was much intermarriage back in the day, so many of them today also have at least some Jewish heritage. The whole Palestinian-Israeli conflict is essentially infighting among cousins.
The oldest parts of the New Testament (Mark, for one) were written in Aramaic, the common language in Roman Palestine at the time, which is probably closer to modern Arabic than ancient Hebrew (but it's in between them both).
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All-In [40875]
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Athletic Dir [881]
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Yes, yes, yes. Arabs are Semites. Arabic is Semitic
Jun 4, 2016, 4:28 PM
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Palestinians and Jews are genetically very, very close. They are the basically same people who practice different religions (Jews=Judaism, Arabs = Islam, Christianity, and Druze).
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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All-In [40875]
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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All-In [40875]
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Solo asked a question you answered incorrectly
Jun 5, 2016, 4:33 AM
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Tell me what your definition of an anti-Semite is? That was solo's question. You and ashley are the first people I have ever heard say anti-antisemitism is hatred towards arabs and jews. Arabs and most arab countries are anti-semitic
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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I didn't give a definition of it. I just stated that both...
Jun 5, 2016, 6:13 PM
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Arabs and Jews are semitic people. Which is a fact. And if you read the links and history on the term, it come out of an English phrase as a transliteration of a German phrase for disliking Jews. So anti-semitic is a term that describes European disdain for Jewish people. Arabs are semites, so using the term anti-semetic is an inaccurate term to use when describing frictions between two factions within the same group of people. So it's an outdated term that is misleading to use when talking about Arabs and Jews. The conflict between Arabs and Jews is separate and different than the racism that developed in Europe against Jews.
Neal in NC
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All-In [26968]
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"Semite" means descended from Shem, son of Noah.
Jun 6, 2016, 8:02 AM
[ in reply to Solo asked a question you answered incorrectly ] |
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That includes the Jewish and Arab people.
The Jewish and Arab people have a common ancestor in Abraham. He was several generations after Shem, so they are definitely both Semitic.
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Athletic Dir [881]
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Athletic Dir [881]
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Hall of Famer [24700]
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Walk-On [102]
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the west bank has and will be disputed and fought over,imo,
Jun 4, 2016, 2:45 PM
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forever. both peoples truly believe the land belongs to them.
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Orange Blooded [2432]
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Re: the west bank has and will be disputed and fought over,imo,
Jun 4, 2016, 3:35 PM
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The reality it is the wrong attitude to say that we always fighting. U r just ignorant about the facts And Jews actual got more along with Muslims than Christians .. As an American Christian , I don't like the support of our government to the Israel and there are constant human right violations as evident by the link from solo. That is why trump is an idiot !! Why they hate us .. For that statement alone, heck with him,,,
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CU Guru [1366]
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So this biased view of things justifies bombing of cafes'
Jun 4, 2016, 4:49 PM
[ in reply to Link: ] |
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stabbing of elderly bus riders, brutal attacks on mothers with their children etc...?
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Orange Blooded [2432]
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killing is wrong at all levels .. U and I can judge them
Jun 4, 2016, 5:09 PM
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Easily as terrorists setting in our living rooms and enjoying a good life watching our tigers.. However, all humans have a break point when they have nothing to live for and stripped from the basic elements to live with respect. I wonder which one of us will stay down of a foreign group took over their land and they lost the war repeatedly.. So do we quit and accept the defeat while our life continue to spiral downward and watching their prosperous life .. Each has to answer this for him self ..
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CU Guru [1898]
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 3:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay... ] |
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nicko1: Really now. you need to learn what the Muslims are all about. Obviously you do little reading but lots of mouthing. I'd recommend a long course in history instead of sitting there playing with your keyboard. You win the award for the most ignorant poster i've seen non this site!
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Standout [314]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 3:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay... ] |
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So your saying that because we support Israel Muslims hate us?? It's a lot more than that. America didn't support the creation of Israel or arm them in their first two wars. Israel has good relations with the Saudis - a Muslim majority country. Radical Islam is why they act hostile to their religions and women. Muslims turn their back to Jerusalem and face mecca when they pray. Jerusalem isn't even in the Koran. Russia helps arm countries like Iran thus why we arm Israel. America only has a financial benefit for supporting Israel.
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Standout [314]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 3:43 PM
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Act hostile to other religions and women****
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Trainer [41]
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 12:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay... ] |
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Before people on this site start commenting on Muslims it might be a good ideas to find lout exactly what the Muslim Religiousocracy is all about. You'll quickly discover that a "true" Muslim in this country favors Muslims only, never infidels.
You might start by trying to find one, just one hospital, charity, treatment center for children, etc. that is FUNDED by Muslims and OPEN to any member of any religion to go to and receive services. Examples of such a hospital would be the Shriner's Hospital for Children in Greenville or St. Francis Hospital or Jewish Hospitals in larger metropolitan areas ,Let me know when you find one but don't spend a lot of time or money trying to locate one because many people have tried and reached the conclusion that they don't exist!
Ali was a great boxer, stood up for what HE believed in and by all accounts was a man of accomplishments. Beyond that, to make him sound like a martyr is beyond the pale IMO.
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110%er [6320]
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: When did Trump say he wanted to deport born Americans?***
Jun 4, 2016, 4:05 PM
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NEVER DID!!!!!!!!!!!!! just more demos/libs lies!!
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Athletic Dir [881]
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A number of times.
Jun 4, 2016, 4:22 PM
[ in reply to When did Trump say he wanted to deport born Americans?*** ] |
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Specifically, he has spoken against birthright citizenship. In his opinion, the US-born children of illegal immigrants are not citizens and should be deported with their parents.
Don't you remember him talking about "a number of legal experts" with that opinion, but when pressed he couldn't name a single one? Google it.
The first way you know when Trump is lying is when he opens his mouth.
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: When did Trump say he wanted to deport born Americans?***
Jun 4, 2016, 4:55 PM
[ in reply to When did Trump say he wanted to deport born Americans?*** ] |
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you are correct. Trump said he wanted illegals deported. Only Mexicans born in America who could be deported would be serious felons.
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110%er [7555]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 6:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay... ] |
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My definition of being an American hero....all who served in the military and the ones who made the ultimate sacrifice for our country.....skin color or religion has nothing to do with it.....Go Tigers!!!!
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All-TigerNet [12536]
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While I have had the same thoughts that you expressed,
Jun 4, 2016, 11:41 AM
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I know that he was chosen to light the Olympic torch in Atlanta (not sure why) and was awarded the highest civilian medal (which was placed on him by George W. Bush. When I saw that last night I was thinking maybe I missed something too.
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Walk-On [120]
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Re: Your comment may not deserve a reply, but
Jun 4, 2016, 11:48 AM
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first of all his name was Muhammad Ali and if you insist on his earlier name at least spell it right.
Obviously you weren't around for the the 60's so you have no clue about the turbulent times this country went through with Vietnam. Ali was the voice of protest who paid a huge price for his convictions, but was eventually exonerated by the Supreme Court. He was an ambassador that was the best known and revered figure in the entire world. History has proven him right and he will be remembered that way. A lot of people didn't like him for his flamboyant style, but as they say, It ain't bragging if you can back it up and he did. PS; I'm no liberal or democrat, but I am a child of the 60's.
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Rock Defender [55]
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Re: Your comment may not deserve a reply, but
Jun 4, 2016, 11:56 AM
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Great response, he was a great man.
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Scout Team [175]
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Re: Your comment may not deserve a reply, but
Jun 4, 2016, 12:36 PM
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If his momma call him Clay, immol call him Clay.
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110%er [5964]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 11:59 AM
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I am a Marine who served in Nam and fought for everybody,s freedom including Ali. Ali made a choice and paid his dues. That is the beauty of this country we can express our views and take a stance and if that position violates the law you pay the consequences Most of us move on and some who call themselves "Christians" hold bitterness towards others for the rest of their lives God loves all including those that harbor bitterness in their hearts. I am sure Trump can count on your vote.
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 4:21 PM
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Bravo sir. Thank you for your service. God Bless.
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CU Guru [1366]
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Didn't detect any "bitterness" from dude...maybe you're
Jun 4, 2016, 4:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay... ] |
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just trying to get in a jab at Christians.
And why is it ok for everyone to express their opinions except those like the original poster.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Didn't detect any "bitterness" from dude...maybe you're
Jun 5, 2016, 8:29 AM
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> And why is it ok for everyone to express their opinions except those like the original poster.
It is ok for people like the OP to express their opinions. Unless I'm mistaken, he wasn't arrested for his speech was he?
The first amendment protects us from being apprehended by the government, it does not protect you from the backlash of your peers.
Like it or not, Muhammad Ali was an american and happened to be muslim. This is not a christian country, it is for ALL religions. So, when the OP starts bashing a particular religion, maybe you can understand why there is a backlash.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 5, 2016, 1:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay... ] |
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> I am a Marine who served in Nam and fought for
> everybody,s freedom including Ali. Ali made a choice
> and paid his dues. That is the beauty of this
> country we can express our views and take a stance
> and if that position violates the law you pay the
> consequences Most of us move on and some who call
> themselves "Christians" hold bitterness towards
> others for the rest of their lives God loves all
> including those that harbor bitterness in their
> hearts. I am sure Trump can count on your vote.
Post of the Day! You hit the nail on the head. It is both astonishing and ironic that many Christians are more known for who they hate than for who they love.
Thank you for your service blaketiger!
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110%er [7192]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 12:16 PM
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Probably the greatest boxer of all time, but we'll never know for sure because he sacrificed his prime to take a moral stance. You don't have to agree with his choices.
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Oculus Spirit [90771]
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Wharever..he lost 4 yrs in his prime time during draft dodging stuff
Jun 4, 2016, 12:25 PM
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And later the Rope-a-Dope defensive stuff caused him much physical damage imho and could have brought on his Parkinson's.
I liked him as an unique, talented & flamboyant fighter but also liked Rocky Marciano who never lost a fight, i believe..while Ali lost around 5.
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All-In [28286]
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he is an american icon and hero
Jun 4, 2016, 12:28 PM
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the greatest that ever lived and steadfast in his beliefs. our family always rooted for ali. i grew up loving ali and what he stood for. he is the greatest. period - end of story
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110%er [6878]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 12:28 PM
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I remember it like you do. Listening to those fights on the radio was so exciting but when he used his new religion to become a conscientious objector we felt he was unamerican. Islam doesn't discourage killing your enemies and, regardless of your views on Vietnam, the killing of 65,000 Americans by the Viet Cong made them the enemy.
I think we had a gradual change of heart when he negotiated the release of 15 American prisoners from Iraq in 1972 and the obvious decline in his health. We always acknowledged that he was an incredible athlete.
BTW, a disproportionate number of brave Black Americans died in Vietnam. Our dislike of Ali had zero to do with racism!
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All-In [49613]
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I'll reply, assuming you aren't trolling...
Jun 4, 2016, 12:57 PM
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...and if you are, then you do so over the grave of a man who lived by his conscience and suffered for it for a time. He didn't complain about having his title stripped, he just went back out and took it again.
That "crap" you refer to was his belief that Vietnam was an immoral war and he was willing to pay the price for saying so. I can fathom the lingering bitterness about "Hanoi Jane," but Muhammad Ali (and that IS his name, and your reference to him as a "Muzzie" tells us that your opinion of Ali has been further tainted by his faith than his actions.) You WANT to find a reason not to like a smart, opinionated, eloquent witty man, either because of his race or his faith. Either way, he long ago learned to forgive people like you and got on with the business of living ... and making life better for others.
Besides, if the Supreme Court unanimously decided he had been railroaded, I'd say he was railroaded.
Anyway, back to the question at hand: when did he become an American icon? He was always one in sports, but if I had to pick a date, I'd say probably in the early 1980s,when he talked a suicidal Vietnam veteran off a ledge in LA ... or isn't that something a draft-dodging "Muzzie" would do?
https://youtu.be/SV75aFzC1aQ
You see, Ali lived by his own code of honor, and a large part of that was helping others.It's one of the five pillars of Islam ... or is THAT something you don't think "Muzzies" would do, either?
He quietly created foundations to help inner-city children, became an international ambassador for America, was honored at the White House by presidents of both parties for his international efforts for peace ... there are a lot more, but since you stopped at judging a man because you don't like that he changed his name and because he's a "Muzzie", then they're probably not of any interest to you either.
Suffice to say the world lost a great man this morning.
Godspeed, Muhammad Ali.
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Orange Blooded [2828]
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Re: I'll reply, assuming you aren't trolling...
Jun 4, 2016, 1:06 PM
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Well said RevDodd! There's way too much judgement in the world and not enough understanding and forgiveness! Rest in Peace Mr. Ali.
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Hall of Famer [20945]
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Hall of Famer [24528]
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: I'll reply, assuming you aren't trolling...
Jun 4, 2016, 4:06 PM
[ in reply to I'll reply, assuming you aren't trolling... ] |
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For your information sir, great people do things that benefit the wider society without regard to one's religion or lack thereof etc,. and don't just help "inner city" kids!! They help all kids. So I repeat, please tell me the name of one hospital funded and formed by any Muslim in this country. Only one not two or ten. And please leave the inner city stuff out of it. Many people are sick and tired of all the freaking excuses.
You should stick with football where at least you have some knowledge. On this subject, you are clueless. Have a nice day and I will wait for the name of the hospital!!!
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All-In [49613]
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Re: I'll reply, assuming you aren't trolling...
Jun 4, 2016, 5:03 PM
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"Great people do things that benefit the wider society without regard to one's religion or lack thereof..."
You mean like Muhammad Ali did?
He was either a board member or spokesman of the following non-profit, non-religion non race-specific charities. Since he was a devout Muslim, I assume I can cite him as a proper subject for your edification.
Ali Care Program
Andrea Bocelli Foundation
Athletes For Hope
Beat Bullying
Buoniconti Fund To Cure Paralysis
Celebrity Fight Night Foundation
HELP USA
Jeff Gordon Children's Foundation
Keep Memory Alive
Michael J. Fox Foundation
Muhammad Ali Center
Muhammad Ali Parkinson Center
Parkinson Society Maritime Region
Project A.L.S.
Special Olympics
The HollyRod Foundation
The Miami Project
UNICEF
Watering Seeds Organization
Frankly I'm a bit baffled at your insistence that one is not a benefactor if they don't build a hospital. What a strange, narrow razor blade of judgment. It's like saying, "Well, Billy Graham NEVER started an urban gardening system in America, so he can't be considered a benefactor. Which reminds me ... I don't think Billy Graham founded a hospital either. Guess that knocks him down a peg or two in the pantheon.
As for "leaving the inner city out of it," is there some reason Ali or anyone else should be "sick of hearing about the plight of the urban poor" ... unless they have some demographic distaste for the urban poor. I also enjoy the irony in your assertion that a truly great person does things without regard to religion, then you roll off on a xenophobic rant focusing on Muslims in this country.
Like the OP, you display more of your soul than you realize ... and it isn't a pretty sight.
And Muhammad Ali was still a great man, even if he donated millions of dollars to help people who apparently you don't think were worthy of assistance.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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All-In [49613]
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Can't be! "Muzzies" don't play that!***
Jun 4, 2016, 6:02 PM
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: I'll reply, assuming you aren't trolling...
Jun 4, 2016, 6:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: I'll reply, assuming you aren't trolling... ] |
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What are you babbling about? It would appear that Rev's post was showing how Ali fought for what he believed, and didn't just help those who were Islamic. You're also totally missing the point when he mentions helping "inner-city" kids. That's pretty often synonymous with kids who need help.
Your post wreaks of just wanting to dislike Ali due to his religion...and I say this as someone who does not like Islam (or any religion, really). Neil Degrasse Tyson has made some very good lectures which includes the fall of Islam as an intellectual participant in the world (here's one of the shorter ones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl1nJC3lvFs). There's no doubt as a religion, their general world representation is absolute trash, but I'm not going to condemn every single individual Muslim due to this and neither should you.
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Legend [18786]
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Thank you for posting that...
Jun 5, 2016, 11:20 AM
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very interesting. I am a math teacher and I learned a little bit about the origin of Algebra today!
There is a real danger of trying to equate all questions we have to "it's God's plan" or "God made it". Through the history of time, religious explanations have fallen from scienitific discovery yet people go on doing it (after a brief period of refusal to accept the data usually).
I get it. I wish I was religious because there is a real sweetness to believing in God over a cold dark empty space. But like the speaker's point, it can absolutely dampen scientific discovery if you let it.
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: Thank you for posting that...
Jun 5, 2016, 2:51 PM
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I agree...religion isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it can be when it impedes progress. Worst of all, oftentimes the scientific things that religion goes against aren't even in the religious texts, and the protests are based on the interpretation of clerics.
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Athletic Dir [881]
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Well tiger james, when you need heart surgery,
Jun 4, 2016, 8:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: I'll reply, assuming you aren't trolling... ] |
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be sure to tell your hospital, no Muslims physicians for you. Especially in South Carolina.
Good luck with that, dummy.
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CU Medallion [55333]
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Oculus Spirit [93618]
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Legend [19913]
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Legend [18786]
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Hall of Famer [22291]
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gawd dang Rev... thank you for your response on this topic
Jun 5, 2016, 11:18 AM
[ in reply to I'll reply, assuming you aren't trolling... ] |
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I wanted to say the same thing, but didn't know where to even start. So I did what I usually do... just say "to #### with it, it's not worth my time to argue with idiots" and just let it go. But it needed to be said, and you did it most admirably. Well done.
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Orange Blooded [2762]
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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he was right about not fighting in Vietnam, historical fact***
Jun 4, 2016, 1:06 PM
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CU Guru [1898]
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Would you please elaborate on that conclusion?
Jun 5, 2016, 4:25 PM
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Not flaming - just don't understand your statement that's just hanging out there.
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MVP [522]
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Re: Would you please elaborate on that conclusion?
Jun 5, 2016, 6:48 PM
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Communism still exists. Corruption in Asian governments still exist.
What exactly what accomplished in Vietnam?
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CU Guru [1207]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 1:09 PM
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Just before takeoff on an airplane flight, the stewardess reminded Ali to fasten his seat belt. "Superman don't need no seat belt," replied Ali.
"Superman don't need no airplane either," retorted the stewardess.
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All-In [48078]
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You missed his entire lofe as well as...
Jun 4, 2016, 1:36 PM
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a huge amount of US history apparently. It would ake wat too long to explain it to you, but you are lost as far as Ali. Thanks for your service though. Sorry you were forced to fight in such a sham war. There is way more to Ali by the way. There will be documentaries for days where you can brush up on basic US history though, mush of it sociological history.
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Letterman [297]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 2:08 PM
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Did he renounce all what crap? Taking a stance on what he believed in? Trying to affect change? Being the best, arguably ever? Putting your beliefs ahead of personal gain?
The only thing that should be renounced here is misspelling, intolerance, and apparently choosing to live in a neo nazi enclave as a kid.
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110%er [5737]
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The same reason
Jun 4, 2016, 2:18 PM
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some people think Jesse Jackson is important!
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All-In [48078]
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Racist alert**
Jun 4, 2016, 2:59 PM
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nm
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Orange Blooded [4101]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 2:23 PM
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While I may disagree with some of his political stances, and refusal to serve, as some Hage pointed out, he paid his dues and that should be behind him. He paid much more than many who now hold or have held public office on both sides of the aisle to be honest. So while we may not agree with some of his beliefs, it's hard to argue that there has ever been a boxer that moved the meter like he did. The man in this era would be printing money. Could you imagine him in his prime with twitter? Boxing would be destroying sales records right now.
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110%er [6321]
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Did he play football?
Jun 4, 2016, 3:02 PM
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not sure why this is on the football board
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All-In [48078]
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It transcends all boards. **
Jun 4, 2016, 3:17 PM
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nm
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Athletic Dir [881]
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Take a serious read about him,
Jun 4, 2016, 4:14 PM
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your childhood memories are probably tainted.
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CU Guru [1298]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 4:59 PM
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Hard to believe you watched CASSIUS Clay in the 70s and did not even learn to spell his name. Anyway, he was not a "draft dodger" - he stayed in the US, stood up and asserted his right as a conscientious objector to the Viet Nam War. And it turns out he was right about the unjust war. I'm sure as a Marine, you were aware that there were many vets who realized that the war was wrong and threw away their hard-earned medals. Of course I was supportive of the soldiers during the war and appreciated their service - as I do yours.
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Oculus Spirit [93618]
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Be civil.
Jun 4, 2016, 5:00 PM
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I have no respect for Clay or Lou Alcindor either but the man isn't cold yet.
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Legend [15869]
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Excellent points and thank you for serving our country.
Jun 4, 2016, 5:46 PM
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Never have figured out what made him this American icon. He certainly did not serve his country or add anything positive that I am aware of.
I am sick of hearing all of these celebrity athletes give their thoughts about him. The man made millions boxing. What else did he do????
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110%er [6320]
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Not my words, but still spot on...
Jun 4, 2016, 6:00 PM
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There's just one problem with this "inspiring" statement. Well, no. There are far, FAR more than one. The biggest of this statement's numerous logical fallacies is the implication that the draft seems to focus on blacks. How many Vietnam vets do we have here? Do any of you remember anything of the sort? ...Didn't think so. The next biggest is that the nation in question was already falling under foreign domination (from China and the U.S.S.R) and the U.S. (nominally) was there to stand in the way of that (until a Liberal president named LBJ figured out he could make more money from perpetuating the war than winning it, but that's a whole different story), and the third is that the "perpetuation of white slave masters" part aims to deny that this man's direct ancestors established and perpetuated the North Atlantic slave trade for centuries before Europe was ever even a customer. Finally, if he was so passionate about America not being worthy of fighting for because it was "stolen from the Red people" as he puts it, then why did he never make any effort to leave?
But then again, Muhammad Ali was never famous for his academic prowess or historical knowledge. I love how hard people work to make his draft-dodging (namely, refusing to fulfill a legal obligation to register for military service and letting someone else go and die in your place to cover your own cowardice) seem like an act of bravery though. Seriously, I understand a remarkable athlete has died, but attempting to portray his character in a brighter light just because of his fame is in really poor taste. Then again, poor taste... Liberals... the two things are like peanut butter and jelly. -Raptor
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All-In [48078]
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It's not just that he was an athlete.. You're missing much
Jun 4, 2016, 6:13 PM
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nm
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Oculus Spirit [93618]
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Anyone who thinks CC would have gone to Viet Nam is...
Jun 4, 2016, 6:21 PM
[ in reply to Not my words, but still spot on... ] |
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way short sighted. If famous people fought in Nam it was their choice. The war had a great political opposition. Having a popular public figure to die fighting in Nam would have been disastrous for the war hawks.
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All-In [48078]
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Exactly. He was never in danger. He knew that.**
Jun 5, 2016, 9:28 AM
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Legend [16227]
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My mom grew up in Kentucky and was a Cassius Clay fan, then
Jun 4, 2016, 7:02 PM
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a Muhammad Ali fan despite being a God fearing fundamentalist and Republican diehard, with a touch of Southern genteel racism that is a dying out generation.
Muhammad Ali became an American and global hero because people all over the world met him and understood him to be a genuinely righteous dude, despite his vast differences with people on many levels - economic, religious, color, origin. My mom was fortunate enough to have been one of those people. I think people also appreciate deep down how he voiced his beliefs and then stood toe to toe with them regardless of the consequences.
hth
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MVP [522]
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Re: My mom grew up in Kentucky and was a Cassius Clay fan, then
Jun 5, 2016, 6:29 PM
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Well said. It really bothers frightened conformists - threatens them even - when men with unconventional views are willing to voice those views and defend them.
It bothers them more when the unpopular views are either valid or elephants in the room or both.
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Legend [16327]
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agree..great fighter but not an american hero..
Jun 4, 2016, 7:38 PM
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like many portray him as being
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Recruit [94]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 4, 2016, 7:41 PM
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Ali was the greatest boxer in his time. I thought of him as my hero ever since the closed circuit fight broadcasts in Greenville Memorial Auditorium back in the 60's.
I displayed his autograph today I was able to get sitting next to him in the LA Airport.
I am a Vietnam vet but I fully understood his stance on this controversial war.
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All-In [36207]
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He Didn't Go Kill No Gooks So I Don't Like Him***
Jun 4, 2016, 7:55 PM
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All-In [40875]
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Re: He Didn't Go Kill No Gooks So I Don't Like Him***
Jun 5, 2016, 6:09 AM
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“War is against the teachings of the Holy Koran,” Muhammad Ali claimed. “I’m not trying to dodge the draft. We are not supposed to take part in no wars unless declared by Allah or the Messenger [Elijah Muhammad]. We don’t take part in Christian wars or wars of any unbelievers.”
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All-In [48078]
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He also spoke of equal rights being a factor as well.
Jun 5, 2016, 9:26 AM
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He also didn't see the reason for the war etc etc. He summed it up on multiple levels well and history has proven that.
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CU Guru [1898]
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Well, my reading of the Quran is otherwise - I have two
Jun 5, 2016, 4:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: He Didn't Go Kill No Gooks So I Don't Like Him*** ] |
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volumes. The Middle East is rife with war and many of the warlords are devout Muslim believers. Many Muslim men and women serve in the US armed forces and are a credit to this country
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110%er [6208]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 5, 2016, 1:55 AM
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It probably happened in between the time you and your dummy family went from racist to more racist... Although that's just a guess.
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All-TigerNet [12233]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 5, 2016, 8:11 AM
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Why is this posted on the Tiger Football board? Would think this is better posted in the Lounge or Amphitheater as none of this discussion has anything to do with football. Ok, I'll stop being the board police...
I could not care less what the man decided to call himself or who/what he wanted to worship. I give Ali credit for being an incredibly talented boxer that worked hard at his craft to become the best in his day. However, I never pulled for Ali to win a match because I absolutely could not stand his "shtick". The self bragging, the lack of humility, the "staring down"/name calling of his opponents, and the never ending trash talk just left me cold and IMO did nothing but showed poor sportsmanship. I fully understand Ali's shtick was just a game to get under his opponents skin but I just don't like people who have to berate the world with shouting diatribes of how great they are. Let your actions in the arena do the talking and stay humble and show some class when winning and losing - like Dabo.. Unfortunately, Ali's shtick has become way to common these days - not just in boxing but in most sports.
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All-In [48078]
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It's not comparable to today's athlete.
Jun 5, 2016, 9:39 AM
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One, if you look at what he actually said, it was all harmless. He was a class act. Ali and Howard Cosell were amazing together and great friends. Ali, was great with the media. Secondly, it was a different time. That was a amazing how he carried himself with such strength and dignity as a black man in 1960 and onward for a bit after he won the gold medal in Rome. In 1962 he won the heavyweight championship and was a central figure in the civil rights movement a shortly afterwards. He wasn't just a loud mouth. You're missing it. I agree with you about some athletes today, but it is a different time and it's apples and oranges. Ali went against the grain. It was the time in history when he was doing it. I think that is what you are missing. That and much much more. To answer your first question though, why is it on the football board? It's because the death of Muhammad Ali transcends all these boards. You don't have to post about him. Moreover, situations like this won't be happening again.
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All-TigerNet [12233]
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Re: It's not comparable to today's athlete.
Jun 5, 2016, 10:17 AM
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Sorry - we will just have to agree to disagree. I am old enough to remember watching Ali's diatribes as it happened on live TV and don't have to look at this through a historical lens to interpret how I felt about his tirades as they happened. To a lot of us who were alive during Ali's prime, Ali's trash talk wreaked of poor sportsmanship at the time and still do to this day for me.
No doubt that it was "good TV" as it was not the norm in those days and he always could be counted on to make a headline. That was one of the reasons the media loved covering him - easy headline story because it would stir up controversy. I just didn't like his shtick then and don't like the way his shtick has been modernized and carried forward by many of today's athletes. Have no doubt - Ali may not have invented trash talk but he perfected and popularized it in a way that made it all too appealing to a lot of athletes that have since followed.
I respect Ali for what he accomplished and especially for his humanitarian work long after his boxing career was over, but the Ali braggadocio style never appealed to me. To each their own but I'm a bit old fashioned and prefer champion athletes to be a little more humble and gracious in victory.
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All-In [48078]
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Fair Enough**
Jun 5, 2016, 11:49 AM
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All-TigerNet [14233]
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Pretty disrespectful to use his slave name***
Jun 5, 2016, 9:30 AM
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: Pretty disrespectful to use his slave name***
Jun 5, 2016, 4:42 PM
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What slave name???I have never heard anyone else use that term until today when U seed it!!! If he used it just another case of his attempt to divide people again!!Jessie and Al must be very happy!!
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All-In [48078]
TigerPulse: 100%
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The good news is that you are out of your coma.***
Jun 5, 2016, 5:42 PM
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nm
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MVP [522]
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Orange Blooded [2896]
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Thank you OP. Much respect for you protecting us vs draft
Jun 5, 2016, 9:32 AM
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dodger who converted to Islam for the sole purpose of dodging the draft. He was a coward and turned his back on all Americans that served so he could run his mouth under the very freedom they provided for him.
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All-In [48078]
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Really?
Jun 5, 2016, 9:48 AM
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How was he a coward? He would have never been at risk of fighting in the first place. There was no chance Ali would have been put in harms way in Vietnam. He didn't not go because he thought he was at risk of being killed. He dealt with way more, lost way more, and was braver for not going.
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All-TigerNet [14233]
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: Thank you OP. Much respect for you protecting us vs draft
Jun 5, 2016, 4:44 PM
[ in reply to Thank you OP. Much respect for you protecting us vs draft ] |
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GREAT POST!!!!!!!!!!!! all very true!!he was the leader of the draft dodgers and has NO REASON for ANY RESPECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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MVP [522]
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Re: Thank you OP. Much respect for you protecting us vs draft
Jun 5, 2016, 6:25 PM
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I take it you don't respect Trump the draft dodger, either?
RIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGHHHHHHHT.
Oh, but you're not hateful at all I bet.
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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when? 1984.....
Jun 5, 2016, 10:01 AM
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the world changes,
and to the victors - or new tyrants -
goes the capability to rewrite history.
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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wow. "muzzie convert." Trump supporter, I gather?
Jun 5, 2016, 10:08 AM
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Walk-On [130]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 5, 2016, 5:06 PM
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This may help you understand why he did not want any part of Vietnam.
https://youtu.be/Fx1sowy1k0w
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All-In [48078]
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He was right for that time period.**
Jun 5, 2016, 5:19 PM
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nm
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MVP [522]
TigerPulse: 80%
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 5, 2016, 6:18 PM
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Thank you for serving, but I sure wish I had a dollar every time someone making a political statement used their service as some sort of appeal to authority.
A lot of people don't think being Muslim or a draft dodger or even "anti-American" (as you call it) was a problem given the historical context. I mean, he didn't have much to gain otherwise.
Boxing isn't about fanfare, and never has been. He did it his way and was STILL the best. Haters hate. It's what they do.
Can I just say it? Serving in the military after being drafted just isn't as impressive as being one of the GOATs in one of the world's most popular sports.
It's just not.
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Heisman Winner [111434]
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 5, 2016, 8:19 PM
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so which conservative talk show personality are we parroting today?
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Orange Blooded [4151]
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all the media hoopla is just from the people who have white
Jun 5, 2016, 8:23 PM
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Guilt. I have no white guilt. He did nothing for me. Just a loser!
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All-In [38925]
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OMGAWD.... why put this here. JUST DELETE THE THREAD***
Jun 5, 2016, 8:47 PM
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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I listened on the radio to the 1st fight with Sonny Liston.
Jun 6, 2016, 8:50 AM
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Clay was a loud mouthed braggart leading up to the fight, and afterwards. Unlike people like Elvis Presley and Roger Staubach, Clay "converted" to Islam to get conscientious objector status so he wouldn't have to serve. That's how he became Muhammad Ali. In 1971, I was in SEA, and we GI's gathered around the radio to listen to Joe Frazier defeat him. It was a good day for us. Clay was a narcissist and an egotist. Not the kind of role model, much less the kind of person, I would want to be associated with.
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MVP [522]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 341
Joined: 5/25/16
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Re: Serious Question about Casious Clay...
Jun 6, 2016, 1:58 PM
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Butthurt achieved.
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