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CU Guru [1993]
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Separation of Church and State.
Apr 19, 2014, 10:19 AM
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OK, people, let's get this straight. Everyone wants to keep stating this "separation". There is NOTHING in the Constitution that stipulates a separation. This is something that has been indoctrinated by the court system. Yes, Thomas Jefferson did state that there should be a "wall of separation" that should allow for the free practice of your choice of religion. Unfortunately, this is something that has been jumped on and twisted by those who are "offended" by anyone actively, or obtrusively, practicing their religion.
Here is the fact - the Constitution expressly states that we are all free to practice as we choose, or not practice, and be FREE FROM THE HARASSMENT OF FOLLOWING OUR RELIGION. The simple fact that a person, or group, is pushing to stop someone, or another group, from practicing as they choose, is harassment. To be openly religious, and practicing in an open manner, has become abhorrent to a section of our country. It "infringes" on other peoples' rights, in some way. Grow up. Walk away. You have started infringing on my right to be "openly religious".
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110%er [7238]
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THIS ISSUE IS DEAD
Apr 19, 2014, 10:33 AM
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The F.F.R.F has no evidence, witnesses, or legal argument. We need to just move on and talk football and other Clemson Sports. GO TIGERS!!! CLEMSON 1 - F.F.R.F 0
WE WIN!!! MOVE ON!!! 
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All-TigerNet [11161]
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Re: THIS ISSUE IS DEAD
Apr 19, 2014, 10:41 AM
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Yep, it's Holy Week media fodder.
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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Re: THIS ISSUE IS DEAD
Apr 19, 2014, 10:47 AM
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Yeah, its Holy Week Modda Fodder
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CU Guru [1071]
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Here's what the Constitution actually says:
Apr 19, 2014, 11:15 AM
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"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof." The phrase "separation of church and state" is shorthand for reading these two clauses ("the establishment clause" AND "the free exercise clause") TOGETHER. The phrase was used by several of the framers (but particularly Jefferson and Madison) of the Bill of Rights.
Before any armchair jurists want to make a states rights argument that Clemson isn't Congress, the entire Bill of Rights was made applicable to the states in 1868 with the adoption of the 14th Amendment.
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110%er [7238]
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Re: Here's what the Constitution actually says:
Apr 19, 2014, 11:19 AM
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This still does not place Dabo Swinney or Clemson in question of violation. What the F.F.R.F has is a frivolous claim made by a South Carolina resident that doesn't nor has ever attended Clemson University. Clemson WINS!!! F.F.R.F loses.. Time to move on and ignore those ignorant idiots.
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CU Guru [1993]
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Re: Here's what the Constitution actually says:
Apr 19, 2014, 11:41 AM
[ in reply to Here's what the Constitution actually says: ] |
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The comment/ phrase that was used was something along the lines of a wall shall separate the church from the state in order to allow for the freedom of religion from any government enforcement. It has been twisted by future generations to say that the two cannot co-mingle, be actively allowed in everyday life. The use of "separation of Church and State" has been bastardized to allow for the subjugation of those who wish to openly express themselves. I could make a comment as to others being allowed to actively pronounce their " openness" in certain areas - the allowing for tolerance in certain aspects of life. I have to remain silent in these areas, but I have to shut up as to my religion.
AS to the states rights, Wisconsin should follow their beliefs and leave ours alone....
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CU Medallion [55408]
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Re: Here's what the Constitution actually says:
Apr 19, 2014, 12:57 PM
[ in reply to Here's what the Constitution actually says: ] |
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According to the First Amendment, Dabo should be free to express his feeling on religion at FB practice to anyone that wants to listen. So maybe FFRF are the ones that don't care about what rights the constitution affords every US citizen. And as Atheist, they are allowed to rewrite any or all parts of the constitution and argue it as law for the minority of lost souls. Maybe FFRF misinterpreted the freedom parts as a freedom to rewrite amendments to fit their argument. I'm hoping that Clemson will retort back to them with saying, Dabo said, May God bless your lost and confused souls.
First Amendment - an amendment to the Constitution of the United States guaranteeing the right of free expression; includes freedom of assembly and freedom of the press and freedom of religion and freedom of speech
Bill of Rights - a statement of fundamental rights and privileges (especially the first ten amendments to the United States Constitution)
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Walk-On [146]
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Here's what you are missing: While Dabo is
Apr 19, 2014, 1:57 PM
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carrying out his duties as HFC, he IS the State. He doesn't sacrifice ALL of his 1st Amendment Free Exercise rights when he becomes the State, but he does sacrifice SOME of them. If he wants "free reign" to proselytize on the practice field and in the locker room, he is going to have coach at a non-government school. I have no idea that he is doing any of that or that he wants "free reign." My gut is that he has never intentionally crossed the line or if he has, he would gladly step back behind it to stay at THIS government school.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Here's what the constitution says:
Apr 19, 2014, 1:09 PM
[ in reply to Here's what the Constitution actually says: ] |
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"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
Who needs someone else's opinion on what it says? It's pretty plain and simple unless you've got other sections of the constitution to add?
Now the law has morphed into something the founders didn't intend. They had no shortage of paper, pen and ink. I'm positive had they not though this clear and concise they would have expounded.
The only record we have that anyone sought a more clear explanation was the Danbury Baptist Association. His letter promised that the government would not interfere with their religious activities.
http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danbury.html
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CU Medallion [55408]
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Re: Separation of Church and State.
Apr 19, 2014, 11:19 AM
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It wouldn't/doesn't matter to me personally what IS or ISN'T in the constitution on Religion in the United States of America. I would never allow any person/persons, state local or Federal Government dictate to me, or stand in the way of the God that I know is real. And I don't care what anybody thinks about what I personally believe is real. Me and only Me will ever have to be accountable for my actions and my personal beliefs at the end of my life.
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110%er [7238]
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Re: Separation of Church and State.
Apr 19, 2014, 11:21 AM
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B.A.M.C.I.S Finally someone posted a comment with logical sense. However, it's time to dust the dust from our feet and move on. No time to concern ourselves or our team with people who are so unimportant that no one would grieve their absence.
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CU Guru [1993]
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Re: Separation of Church and State.
Apr 19, 2014, 11:31 AM
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I agree with you that this should be a dead issue. However, it is not up to you and/or me. It will be a matter of how Clemson University responds, how FFRF responds and whether this ends up in a court of law. I hate to use the word zealot, but if FFRF is determined to push the issue, we could see this becoming much more prominent, involve courts, legal proceedings and possibly the president as he has to provide his "expert" opinion.
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110%er [5093]
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The second amendment states
Apr 19, 2014, 11:41 AM
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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Where does it say can keep convicted felons from possessing guns?
I would hope you would agree that it is a good thing to keep guns from violent criminals?
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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That argument is devoid of logic.
Apr 19, 2014, 1:13 PM
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Criminals are put in prison and their constitutional rights to freedom are violated? You gotta have something better than that.
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110%er [5093]
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What?
Apr 19, 2014, 2:32 PM
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I'm talking about when they are out of prison.
What are you talking about?
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110%er [9061]
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Re: Separation of Church and State.
Apr 19, 2014, 11:47 AM
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because now from a legal point of view it also matters what the Supreme Court has ruled over the years. These two things are what all courts go by so, again, it doesn't just matter what the original constitution and amendments state - it also includes Supreme Court rulings.
My attorney friend says the only way Supreme Court rulings can be changed is if Congress passes laws overruling them. And even in that case, all laws passed by Congress have to conform to what the Constitution and amendments declare.
The surest way to establish or change a law is to ratify an amendment to the Constitution.
That's why the founding fathers set up the three parts of the federal government - that what checks and balances are all about.
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Heisman Winner [111599]
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Re: Separation of Church and State.
Apr 19, 2014, 11:49 AM
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yawn, who cares. The whole thing is theature, and I am tired of watching.
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110%er [7390]
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The creators of TigerNet intended for there to be a
Apr 19, 2014, 1:03 PM
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separation of football & religion by creating a forum for each purpose but this latest development w/ the FFRF has proven that people cannot, or rather choose not to, conduct their opinions, beliefs, & emotions w/o the influence of faith.
As stated in the Constitution, noone should establish religion or prohibit the exercise thereof so I just want to say kudos to the moderators for not freezing the Football Bored(s) & forcing you all to blow up the politics/religion bored or freeze this whole place altogether & force yinz to go to FGF where most of you belong anyhow.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Louie louie louie
Apr 19, 2014, 1:15 PM
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louiiaiii! How's that go?
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50
