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Replies: 54
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All-In [36448]
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Seems like all the golf fanatics have their panties in a wad
Jun 8, 2022, 10:36 AM
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About this Saudi tour and taking some of the pros from the PGA tour.
Let’s face it, if someone offered you 200 million to play less golf and spend more time w the family regardless of where you place…. You would take it!
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All-TigerNet [13764]
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It's literally not possible for me to play less golf.
Jun 8, 2022, 10:39 AM
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but i'll take the 200 mil if they're handing it out.
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All-In [40656]
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I think its the integrity of the sponsors and the game
Jun 8, 2022, 10:41 AM
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that is getting folks in a tizzy. These are bad hombres that are funding the LIV tour. Along with that, the folks bouncing, some of them at least, are either the full time bad guys on tour (DJ) or have heel turned into being unlikable (Phil), so they don't care about their reputation.
Along with that, the PGA and the USGA have a combined 250 year history of promoting the integrity of the game and the overall sportsmanship. One of the games greatest ever was an Amateur and played for the pure love of the game (read his book). These are cornerstones to the game, the sport, and the entire golf community. A few #########, most of which were doing extremely well financially, bouncing solely for the money is a giant middle finger to the game and show that they're only there for financial gain, as if they needed any more money as it was.
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All-In [36448]
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So you wouldn’t take the 200 million?
Jun 8, 2022, 10:43 AM
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Bc of the integrity of the game??? Give me a FN break. We all would take it and be happy about it.
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All-In [43603]
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The ones upset about this are most upset that this isn't
Jun 8, 2022, 10:49 AM
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"the way it's always been done".
Let's face it, the PGA has had a monopoly and folks don't like the idea of competition being introduced.
The good 'ole boys are finding out what REAL money can do.
The golfers want to make more money? GOOD FOR THEM. Who is to say how much is "too much"? Who dafuk doesn't want to be paid more for whatever they do for a living?
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All-In [36448]
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Finally someone who understands the American Dream.
Jun 8, 2022, 10:54 AM
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If they will pay me more for less work I’ll gladly take it.
usted señor es un tesoro
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All-In [40656]
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All-In [43603]
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Eh, not so much. Was not in favor of super league.
Jun 8, 2022, 11:12 AM
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Mainly because it becomes invite only, no promotion/relegation. Closed network designed to make the rich richer and poor poorer. Taking the absolute very best 16 or whatever clubs in the world.
I really don't know much about details for this new tour. How, in time, it sorts out that you "qualify" or not or whatever we shall see. This tour certainly isn't taking the clear cut top 40 players or whatever and closing them off from the rest of the world. Actually I think that's kind of what the PGA has done for years.
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All-In [40656]
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Thats a very lazy approach to the topic
Jun 8, 2022, 10:53 AM
[ in reply to So you wouldn’t take the 200 million? ] |
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You know this, and that's why you keep hammering at it. "Whale of course I would take $200m". We get it. It's a lot of money. It would be insanely difficult to turn it down. I will never be faced with that question, so I will never have my integrity called into question about it. But this tour is sponsored by folks who have an extremely questionable human rights record. Same thing with FIFA and Qatar. Its all fun and games until they give you a blank check to sign your soul over.
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All-In [36448]
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We all don’t have old south Wives w millions of dollars!
Jun 8, 2022, 11:00 AM
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You have a jaded view bc you are already sitting pretty. Still think you take the 200 million though. Bc your wife’s family doesn’t have 200 million.
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All-In [40656]
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"Old South Wives"
Jun 8, 2022, 11:06 AM
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She's from Orange County, California, bro.
Like I said, I will never be remotely be faced with that dilemma, so I don't play hypotheticals. I walked away from a $54 100' hose yesterday at Lowes because I am frugal. I don't need $200m. No one does. Their pursuit for that cash isn't some sort of trickle down wealth for their family approach. Most of them are going to blow that cash on hookers, blow, boats, and all the other material #### that isn't necessary. That isn't who I am or how I operate.
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All-In [36448]
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Ok. So OC money. Same difference
Jun 8, 2022, 11:08 AM
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Congrats on marrying into that
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Hall of Famer [24455]
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Agree. The source and intent of this money is sketchy at
Jun 8, 2022, 12:28 PM
[ in reply to Thats a very lazy approach to the topic ] |
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best, probably evil. To say, 'well, he should do it for that much money" means, "So, he is a #####, we're just talking about price."
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All-In [34533]
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If the Saudis are so bad, why does the PGA Tour allow it's
Jun 8, 2022, 10:47 AM
[ in reply to I think its the integrity of the sponsors and the game ] |
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members to play in multiple tournaments there?
Qatar? China?
How many events does the LPGA sponsor in Saudi? Seems like a bunch of hypocrites.
Also, why blame these older players for taking the money? Anyone else would do it.
Saudis are crappy people. No doubt. But theyre good enough for the US Gubmint. So look at it like these players are just getting theyre $$ from our gubmint.
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All-In [40656]
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Over the past decade, I have watched a combined
Jun 8, 2022, 10:56 AM
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10 or less PGA and LPGA tour events. All of them being the PGA Championship. I grew up playing golf 4-5 times a week until I was 18. The spirit of the game was very important to me, except for all of the breakfast balls.
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All-In [36448]
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This is the exact point!
Jun 8, 2022, 11:06 AM
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A bunch of over privileged white boys saying they grew up w the spirit of the game and thus these professionals shouldn’t get the most bang for the buck that they can right now.
They can do whatever they want, it’s not even a sport…
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All-In [40656]
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You have a lot of opinions about a life you think I live
Jun 8, 2022, 11:08 AM
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and it shows. Show me on the doll where I caused you to be so insecure. I never said they shouldn't make the cash. Secure the bag, whatever. It's just a middle finger to the sport.
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All-In [36448]
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You can’t middle finger a sport that’s not even a sport.
Jun 8, 2022, 11:10 AM
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Congrats to these men that can make so much money hitting a tiny ball w no other athletic ability.
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All-In [40656]
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I would like for you to know
Jun 8, 2022, 11:46 AM
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That FBCoachSC® broke a sweat walking 9 holes in 70 degree weather.
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All-In [46801]
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The ####?
Jun 8, 2022, 4:22 PM
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I own 16 beanie babies. I don't walk
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Heisman Winner [135496]
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Hall of Famer [23977]
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Re: I think its the integrity of the sponsors and the game
Jun 8, 2022, 11:58 AM
[ in reply to I think its the integrity of the sponsors and the game ] |
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A lot of sporting institutions have given a lot of people the giant middle finger over the past few years. For that I am grateful. Nothing I can think of, at this point, more boring than sitting in front of a television and watching someone else play a game.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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Real reason Crulez wouldn't take the money
Jun 8, 2022, 12:43 PM
[ in reply to I think its the integrity of the sponsors and the game ] |
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and go to Saudi Arabia is that him and his buddies would all be stoned to death or thrown off the top of a building at the first sign of Bro's Brunch. They don't take too kindly to that sort of shenanigans over there.
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All-In [34533]
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yep. media doing their usual drama dance***
Jun 8, 2022, 10:41 AM
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Oculus Spirit [75682]
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Golf fanatics always have their panties in a wad.
Jun 8, 2022, 10:49 AM
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Or maybe, just maybe, this is a grand scheme to get a lot of good players out of the way in the hopes that Tiger can win another major or two.
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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"What about all of the good things Hitler did?"
Jun 8, 2022, 11:00 AM
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"Show me the money?"
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Lot o points [155674]
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Godwin's law in a golf thread....niiiiiice.***
Jun 8, 2022, 5:07 PM
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CU Medallion [73569]
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I'd drop my pants and
Jun 8, 2022, 11:23 AM
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bend over.
so, in short, yes.
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Orange Blooded [4086]
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Re: Seems like all the golf fanatics have their panties in a wad
Jun 8, 2022, 11:47 AM
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If someone offered me 200 million, I'd take it because poor.
If I had 50 million and someone offered me 200 million to do something I didn't want to do, I'd say no because not poor.
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All-In [40656]
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This is the main thing I am struggling with
Jun 8, 2022, 1:05 PM
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These guys are stacked already. $200m is #### you money. Is their moral compass stronger than their wallets compass? We are finding that out.
Another thing I think these guys probably have an issue with is that they will never be remembered in the long run of the PGA tour history books and the know this. They will never be a Tiger, a Nicklaus, a Palmer, a Player, a Hogan, or a Jones. A lot of these guys have egos. They can write their names in the history books of a tour that is bound to fail eventually... but they are cliff notes in the grand scheme of golf.
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Lot o points [155674]
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Do we know that?
Jun 8, 2022, 5:09 PM
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I don't know nearly all the details that you guys do, but I feel like Mickelson, on the downslope of his career, is trying to rebuild the generational wealth that he probably blew gambling.
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Lot o points [163010]
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I agree. What about all the money China gives the NBA
Jun 8, 2022, 11:56 AM
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or the fact our country does business with Saudia Arabia? We are drawing the line with golfers. LOL.
High and mighty people need to go thru their houses and get rid of all stuff made in China - yea start with your iPhone.
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All-In [40656]
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I don't think having an opinion about the rich and famous
Jun 8, 2022, 1:14 PM
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Would put someone in the "high and mighty" category. I think having an opinion about a game which shaped my youth and one I still enjoy should be considered nefarious. Saying, "oh, if you have a problem with this, then throw out everything from china in your house" is a dense statement that is similar to, "well, if you are a christian, throw out your bibles because some Catholics did some bad things"
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Lot o points [163010]
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Say what?
Jun 8, 2022, 2:31 PM
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don't get that analogy at all, but hope you did.
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Lot o points [155674]
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CU Medallion [56005]
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It's similar to how F1 dropped all ties to Russia.
Jun 8, 2022, 1:44 PM
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There's a generational change taking place where elevated ethical standards are placed on high profile businesses, athletes, and rich folk. They're beginning to take note, which is why we see companies celebrating LGBTQ+ pride stuff and the like. Most of it is virtue signaling, which I'll take over outright cynical indifference. Fake it till you make it.
Backwards countries with significant human rights issues (like Saudi Arabia) should be shunned by the global community. That should include China, too, but they're our largest trading partner, so cutting off economic ties can't happen overnight. Plus those ties are a major hedge against direct military conflict, so you gotta pick your poison.
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All-In [40656]
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Very well said
Jun 8, 2022, 1:49 PM
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This is going directly against the grain of current world ethics.
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Lot o points [155674]
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Not aware of any similarities between the two b/c
Jun 8, 2022, 1:59 PM
[ in reply to It's similar to how F1 dropped all ties to Russia. ] |
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I haven't kept up with the PGA thing, but the F1 thing is a bit of a joke. It took an actual invasion of a sovereign country that was too major to ignore for them to do something in response.
Meanwhile they'll be gladly racing in Baku, Azerbaijan this weekend, where human rights abuses galore take place, Qatar, your aforementioned Saudi Arabia, China, etc, etc, etc.
But they'll be sure to have a big moment of silence for racism before each race while racing in countries where people are actually still enslaved.
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CU Medallion [56005]
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Lot o points [155674]
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That's problematic, under our current system of law.
Jun 8, 2022, 2:35 PM
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The Company's Board and C-levels have a legal fiduciary duty to the investors, to act in their best financial interests. When "social responsibility"-related actions violate their fiduciary duty by willfully and/or indifferently impacting the corporation's finances negatively, they're on seriously shaky legal ground.
People investing in public companies in the belief that the company will generate a positive ROI is a cornerstone of the market, whether that ends up being the final result or not. If you make the intent of the public company something more nebulous than that, it would seem that the market would go a bit haywire and investor confidence would crumble.
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110%er [6953]
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You already see some CEOs hyping ESG investments as a
Jun 8, 2022, 2:38 PM
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way to distract from underperformance. At some point there is going to be a shareholder class action brought because of programs like that and I would hope it would be successful.
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Lot o points [155674]
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CU Medallion [56005]
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Can't they do both?
Jun 8, 2022, 3:19 PM
[ in reply to That's problematic, under our current system of law. ] |
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Is a legal fiduciary responsibility in direct opposition to increased social responsibility?
There would have to be a pretty egregious situation where shareholders of an investment bank (or whatever) successfully sue them for being overly responsible regarding the well-being of their employees and communities. T'would be amusing to watch, though!
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Lot o points [155674]
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It depends.....can they make a business case?
Jun 8, 2022, 3:57 PM
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If Apple dumps $50B into being a "greener" company, they can justify it by saying it will lower energy costs, save money on meeting future environmental regulations, etc, etc, etc....bottom line is they're tying it back to a net positive for the business.
If Apple says "We're taking a $50B write-down because the citizens of Cupertino make a lot less on the whole than our own employees, and we wanted to give them some money to help with the wealth equity gap", they have a real problem unless they figure out some incredibly creative way to tie it back to a ROI for Apple.
There are businesses who make money by selling goods and services that make the world a better place, so profits and benevolence aren't mutually exclusive, but if benevolence IS a large part of your business, with no direct ROI, you're not a business, you're a charity.
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CU Medallion [56005]
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Right, so they'll do both.***
Jun 8, 2022, 4:36 PM
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Lot o points [155674]
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Only to the point where the charitable actions are at
Jun 8, 2022, 4:39 PM
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equilibrium with the marketing value of the publicity and goodwill received in return or the value of tax liability decreases.
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CU Medallion [65983]
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Not necessarily
Jun 8, 2022, 4:39 PM
[ in reply to Right, so they'll do both.*** ] |
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I work for a big company that the stock price has stagnated for years, we are on our fourth CEO in seven years. All ESG stuff has been pushed aside for this latest CEO under orders to get the stock price up. It's kind of working but not great.
If you invest money, you expect a return.
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CU Medallion [56005]
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Well that's the other half of it: Investors.
Jun 8, 2022, 5:18 PM
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It's true, in the most general sense, that investors expect a return. That doesn't mean they want growth at all costs (although I'm sure there are a fair share of Gordon Gekkos out there). As latter Gen X and Millennials gain more influence on the investing side, you'll see the same social consciousness and priorities. Then the pressure from investors won't be a singular mindless focus on share prices and it'll bolster the efforts by companies to be socially responsible.
https://www.morganstanley.com/access/why-millennial-investors-are-different
And just to be clear, I'm only saying this is the direction things are going. That doesn't mean it's always going to be successful or implemented effectively.
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Lot o points [155674]
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It's a nice idea in theory, and if it works, great, but I
Jun 8, 2022, 5:27 PM
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suspect that it's going to end up being a fantastic way to sink an otherwise sound business model.
I'm all for businesses being responsible for things under their direct purview. Better pay for employees, upwards mobility opportunities, benefits, etc.....they should do those things to the point where there's a meaningful ROI on labor quality, engagement, and retention. The company prospers and so do the employees. It's needed because in many cases they've gone the opposite route, figuring out how little they can pay in wages and benefits and still field a minimally acceptable workforce.
Those employees in turn take their money and use a percentage of their choosing to support charities and endeavors that benefit the world at large.....great.
The company being financially obligated to things with no direct correlation to the company? Nah man. The irony is, even in the scenario you propose, they would be involved with the social consciousness efforts because they thought the efforts drove demand and price for their stock (aka provided a ROI) with a larger base of investors only sated by a company involved with social activism, not because of some inherent corporate magnanimity.
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CU Medallion [56005]
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I feel like you're 90% on board with this.
Jun 8, 2022, 5:48 PM
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Right now they're doing the absolute bare minimum by virtue signaling and, in some extreme cases, cutting off markets even thought it costs them money. So step 1 is saying they give a ####, but very little actual action.
The next step would be what you're describing: "things under their direct purview. Better pay for employees, upwards mobility opportunities, benefits, etc.," and I'd add some basic environmental diligence. This would be the overwhelming focus of action.
I'm sure some company somewhere will be the outlier who becomes "financially obligated to things with no direct correlation to the company." They'll be the cautionary tale that reminds everyone why there are boundaries.
What I'm talking about isn't some utopia. It's just companies beginning to care a bit instead of not caring at all. It's an acknowledgement that companies are a part of society and are not a massive, soulless apparatus that exists exclusively for the purpose of generating revenue.
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Hall of Famer [22282]
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My panties aren't in a wad, nor am I clutching my pearls...
Jun 8, 2022, 5:57 PM
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but I hope the whole gottdamm Saudi thing crashes and burns, and the players die a slow death via seared lungs. Ain't got nothing to do with capitalism and fiduciary responsibilities or any of that crap. It's called tradition and respect for the sport. Those emmeffers want to undermine the PGA, steal the best players, and create a tour to compete against it. Hey, the Masters is this week... who cares, the Riyadh Open is the same week, and has 15 of the Top 20 players in the world. The British Open is at St Andrews this year, where they've been playing golf since the 1500's... big deal, the Sultanah Championship is the following week and most players are skipping the British to rest up. They want their name etched on that gold Allah Jug...
Kentucky Derby? Fugedabouit... it's dead, Russia offered $10 million to every horse that enters the Novosibirsk Sweepstakes, regardless of where they finish. Who could blame the horse owners... currently the Derby winner earns less than $2 million. Maybe the Chinese want to take over the NFL in a few years... they offer some of the owners 3 times what their franchise is worth and every player gets $20 million a year guaranteed. So who can blame them for the money grab? You can watch the Beijing Cowboys play the Shanghai Packers tonight... if, of course, you sign up for the YUnoWatchTV streaming service. Maybe they come after baseball too, and we can just blow up Wrigley & Fenway into rubble...
Seriously, most of you guys don't get it?
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All-In [40344]
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Replay arguably took away the spirit of all games
Jun 8, 2022, 9:13 PM
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I’m sure everyone has loved the changes in baseball
HUNH football is almost impossible
VAR in soccer
Yeah, it helps with the calls being right, but nothing beats the hand of god goal in soccer lore
Bad calls and missed timers etc have been taken away and IMO is part of the spirit of every sport/game
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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Hall of Famer [22282]
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I watch very little NFL, NBA or MLB myself any more, I was
Jun 9, 2022, 8:44 AM
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just casting a wide net to those fans, to see how they'd feel if a "foreign money grab" threatened their favorite sport. My "sports passion" the last 25 years or so has been college football, college basketball, and golf. But I've lost most of my interest in basketball lately... the none-and-dones, AAU influence, etc, have completely changed the nature of the game. I find myself mostly just tuning in during March Madness to pull for some small mid-major team to knock off a top seed.
So college football & golf is about all I have left... and the NIL crap is ruining college football, and now some ragheads want to attack the PGA. So yeah, I'm kinda pizzed off about it. But it won't ruin my life if I never watch another sporting event, I have enough other interests.
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95384
Joined: 12/25/09
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Somebody has to help the Saudis get to sleep.
Jun 8, 2022, 10:05 PM
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They can't watch the grass grow.
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