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110%er [9889]
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Regarding a UGA “dynasty” and a Clemson “demise”
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Jan 10, 2023, 4:26 PM
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First, this may not be an “apples to apples” comparison, but it is closer to that than an “apples to oranges” comparison if you look objectively. Sorry (not sorry) that it’s long.
When I left the stadium in Santa Clara after the 44-16 beat down of Bama after 2018 season, I looked at our roster and saw Trevor, ETN, Ross, Amari, Higgins on offense all returning (Lawrence and Ross for at least 2 more years). On defense, I saw us losing the Power Rangers but also saw Isaiah Simmons, AJ Terrell, Trayvon Mullen, and XT returning. We had one of the best punters in the nation in Will Spiers and a freshman kicker by the name of BT Potter.
On that night you could not have convinced me that we would not win another National Championship in the next 4 years. No way. No how. And there absolutely no way in hell you could have convinced me that we were going to go 2 straight years without the playoffs and with 3 losses each year.
Yet, one year removed from Santa Clara we got our rear end handed to us by a very good LSU team in their backyard. The next year we get run out of the same building by Ohio State. The next year 3 losses. And then this year 3 losses, one to SCAR who on that night in Santa Clara was watching at home on TV with Will Muschamp as their coach and coming off a 7-6 season and a 28-0 loss to UVA in Belk Bowl.
And, maybe equally as miraculous as to where we are now compared to then, UGA was off the radar.
When we walked off the field in Santa Clara, UGA was coming off a 3 loss season where they were whipped by LSU and lost to Bama in SEC Championship and Texas in Sugar Bowl. They could not get over the ‘Bama hump. In 2019 and 2020 the Dawgs lost 2 games each season (South Carolina, LSU, Bama, and Florida). They were good. Not great. Underachievers.
And even the most optimistic of UGA fans would have never predicted the next 2 years they would go back to back in National Championships, getting past the ‘Bama hump one year and winning the most lopsided Championship game in history the next. All of it with Stetson Bennett at QB…a guy they were trying to kick to the curb in 2020 after completing only 55.5% of his passes with 8 TD’s and 6 INT’s.
So what does all of this mean?
I dunno.
But what I do know is this. Winning is very hard. Staying on top is harder.
And I can speak from first hand experience that what your eyes and heart tell you being on top will last for a while or even forever, reality has been undefeated in not being as kind in sports history.
Dabo and Saban and Jimbo and Ryan Day and Brian Kelly are not going to just bow down to UGA. In fact, Saban had a front row seat on set last night while everyone talked dynasty and UGA. You think that will sit well with him? You don’t think Dabo hears the chirps from inside the fan base and also nationally in media?
UGA is the best team in the nation the past 2 years. They deserve that praise. Tip of the cap to ya ‘Dawg Nation.
But UGA does not deserve being handed the key to the “Kingdom of Dynasty”. Many, including us and Bama, thought we had that key only to find out that the key does not exist.
Let’s get to the weight room and then on to Spring Practice.
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Legend [16646]
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Yes, it was long, but
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Jan 10, 2023, 4:30 PM
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You used paragraphs and punctuation. Helps immensely! 
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All-In [25888]
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Re: Yes, it was long, but
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Jan 10, 2023, 4:38 PM
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Weight room and Spring practice will help but play calling is dismal. It seems some areas will improve while some stay the same. Hope I am really wrong.
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110%er [9889]
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Not to be a stinker, but go back to game in Santa Clara
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Jan 10, 2023, 4:46 PM
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In Santa Clara, I did not walk out of stadium feeling like we made great play calls.
I saw a generational freshman QB that knew what to do with the ball
I saw AJ Terrell jump a slant for a TD
I saw off tackle runs by ETN where he broke tackles from grown men trying to bring him down
I saw Bama defender slip and Ross with an easy TD.
I saw a high point catch by Tee on a slant for a TD
I saw a dominating defensive line
I saw a stupid Bama play call on Fake FG that we blew up.
We had players. Those players made plays. But I did not talk to my buddies the next day about what great play calling we had...did you?
Same as in 2016 with Watson and Leggett and Mike Williams
You give me those players with our current coaches and if we can't win championships I will certainly concede your point. We had players that made plays. The last 2 years...not so much.
Great players make play callers a lot of cash.
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Lot o points [155633]
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You're not wrong
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Jan 10, 2023, 4:49 PM
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in wins or losses, the play calling from the solo Elliott era wasn't any more inspirational than Streeter's. It's been a looming problem for years.
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110%er [9889]
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Re: You're not wrong
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Jan 10, 2023, 4:53 PM
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And you are not wrong that we need to do better in play calling.
But we need some playmakers as well.
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Lot o points [155633]
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They're both needs, for sure. Obviously the elephant
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Jan 10, 2023, 4:56 PM
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in the room for two seasons has been DJ's play, buy even that goes back to us recruiting a pure drop back passer and play calling like he's Russell Wilson. There is no way we win natty's whatsoever last season or this with the talent we had on hand, but with some more effective and intelligent play calling, we're more likely than not in the playoffs both years given the cakewalk regular seasons we had. It's a huge difference.
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110%er [9889]
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Re: They're both needs, for sure. Obviously the elephant
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Jan 10, 2023, 5:13 PM
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I don't disagree about the talent on these teams should have been good enough for playoffs, but neither were title teams.
Actually, the 3 losses in 2021 seemed more "acceptable". UGA, NCSU at their place in OT, and then a very good Pitt team at their place.
This year's losses are harder to explain. Notre Dame was not as good as we made them look. Scar is unacceptable any year, but at home with a 14 point lead early is just tough to swallow. And UT without their best players....hard to swallow.
But you can offset that by all the close wins in 2021....and we beat people relatively handily in 2022.
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110%er [7073]
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They're both needs: regardless of QB, we were not CFP bound
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Jan 10, 2023, 6:27 PM
[ in reply to They're both needs, for sure. Obviously the elephant ] |
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Obed, we simply did not have the complete mix (in the right ratios) of QBs, WRs, and OL to win big, regardless of play calling or juggling of the offensive personnel on hand for 2022 season.
We’ve beat the DJU thing to death. It is simply fantasy that we would have had the right pieces, all at the time frame for when they were ready, and at the right places for us to have made CFP in either 2021 or 2022.
It needs to be remembered hat, for all of his limitations, DJU was the obviously better QB than Taisun P. and for the first half of 2022 season … if we had started CK2 the whole time … we would not have scored enough (or turned the ball over too much, as inexperienced QBs usually do) to beat either Wake Forest or FSU. Those 2 conference losses would have resulted in us not winning the ACC Atlantic.
So using a different QB would not have put us in CFP, regardless of whether it was TP in 2021 or CK2 in 2022.
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110%er [7073]
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Re: You're not wrong
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Jan 10, 2023, 6:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: You're not wrong ] |
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Good play calling can be ‘good play calling’ even if it is generational talent that’s being expected to make the plays.
In baseball, a supreme power pitcher with a lively cut-fastball cannot meet ‘wins’ expectations simply by throwing that cutter over the plate to everyone for each of the player’s 3 or 4 at-bats during the game.
Sometimes, all that’s needed from the ‘play calling’ is to throw a pitch or two off the plate, and to throw a few purposeful ‘inside pitches’ to distract the hitter’s focus away from hitting and over to his well-being.
When endowed with supreme talent at QB, WR, and RB … along with a very good (not ‘supreme,’ but truly very good) OL, then the play caller can call a handful of plays in the expectation that very few of them will fail; many of them will be successful at getting some yards or moving the chains, several will be for 20+ yards each, and more than enough will result in big play TDs.
I’d argue that this year’s playcalling was quite good when cobpnsidering the limitations of our talent.
DJI was no true RPO QB. However, we did not have the horses at WR, nor was DJU reli ably accurate enough, to sustain an offense using the drop back QB system.
What’s worse? Sticking to a drop back offense when the QB was not a great runner, or trying to make use of the QBs mediocre running skills in hopes of keeping the chains moving and eventually grinding out a score?
A sub-optimal RPO scheme is what Dabo, Streeter, and the offensive coaches and analysts chose. We won 10 games with DJU in both 2021 and 2022 despite the limitations.
I’d call this very good work by our coaches. Also, to repeat what everyone knows, we need more big-play playmakers.
IMO the play calling in 2022 was better (more creative, with more adjustments being done) for 2022. S 2018.
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Lot o points [155633]
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Appears today that Dabo disagreed with you.***
Jan 12, 2023, 11:57 PM
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CU Guru [1258]
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Re: You're not wrong
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Jan 10, 2023, 7:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: You're not wrong ] |
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We need above average offensive linemen more than playmakers. This has been our weakness fir years..did our defensive line regress this year?
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110%er [9889]
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Re: You're not wrong
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Jan 11, 2023, 5:37 AM
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Agree would be great to have a better offensive line.
But we won in '16 with an oline not substantially better than what we had this year. '18 was better, but not '16.
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CU Medallion [52134]
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110%er [9889]
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Re: Not to be a stinker, but go back to game in Santa Clara
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Jan 10, 2023, 5:15 PM
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That call was not stupid as BT would have had a first down and maybe a TD had Swinney read it and pitched it.
The Bama call never had a chance.
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CU Guru [1358]
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Re: Not to be a stinker, but go back to game in Santa Clara
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Jan 11, 2023, 4:59 AM
[ in reply to Not to be a stinker, but go back to game in Santa Clara ] |
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I will reluctantley concede the OC discusssion for now, Streeter needs time with Cade, Dabo didn"t afford him that game development time and handicapped Streeter as a playcaller this year.
It seems we now have a medium to add those necessary playmakers, yet we dont pursue that as an option and our competition does. The game has changed yet Clemson has not changed how they play the game.
Hopefully im wrong.
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Heisman Winner [139873]
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I don't think it's fair to be too critical of play calling..
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Jan 10, 2023, 5:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: Yes, it was long, but ] |
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under Streeter at this point.
Two scenarios, which seems more plausible...
1) An OC who won two national championships and had a top 4 offense in 2021, had the game pass him by in 2021, was no longer an effective play caller, and ended up around 100 +/- in total offense rank for the year. In one year his offense got too basic and predictable, and teams finally figured him out. That coach left and Dabo decided just to look at what was already in house and hire them because it was easier to just promote a guy he intended be a career QB coach than do an actual search, and that person also tanked. Now we have a downward trajectory that only outside blood can correct.
2) An OC who won two national championships and had a top 4 offense in 2021 had an unexpected situation occur at QB and did the best he could with what he had. WR injuries also plagued the team, which made it really difficult to execute any offense, much less his. He could scrap the RPO, and teach everyone an entirely new offense, on the fly, or he could make the best of what he had, and limit the play calling to help our struggling QB be the best player he could be... and just get through it. When that OC left to take a head coaching position at a P5 school, Dabo turned to the person he hired years prior, and had been grooming to fill that role. Anticipating attrition due to success, he conducted his OC search for a replacement years in advance, knowing that if that hire was nurtured, and grew under one of the best OC's in the country, he would have a built in replacement and would not have to rely on a search thrown upon him at the end of a season, which may or may not see him getting someone he wanted. And that new OC took basically the same team that finished 100 +/- in total offense, and moved them inside the top 50. We also won one game more than last season, and won our conference. Stats show that our trajectory has changed for the better, and the future is brighter than it was at the end of 2021.
I keep seeing arguments that Streeter is terrible, and Dabo has let the game pass him by due to stubbornness, but those takes completely ignore the real data we have available to us. Let's see what Streeter can do once he has players.
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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110%er [9889]
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Re: I don't think it's fair to be too critical of play calling..
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Jan 10, 2023, 5:17 PM
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Great post Francis Marion®. Made me think.
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Lot o points [155633]
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One key phrase jumps out
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Jan 10, 2023, 5:21 PM
[ in reply to I don't think it's fair to be too critical of play calling.. ] |
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"and did the best he could with what he had"
Unfortunately, his best wasn't good enough and there were others who could have done better in the same hands-tied scenario, drawing from broader knowledge and experience bases and most likely higher levels of acumen.
If the argument is that our offense is so formulaic that one bad QB offer can derail it, that's a bigger indictment of the offense than the players. It's truly a watered down, diluted variation of Chad Morris's system with a few plays different here and there. It's a victim of inbreeding at this point, it's been handed down so many generations now with little to no outside influence helping it evolve.
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Heisman Winner [139873]
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That was Tony Elliott…
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Jan 10, 2023, 6:07 PM
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Regarded as one of the best OC’s in the country at the time. His track record was well established. I don’t think his ability plummeted in one season. To your QB point, yes, the offense we run relies heavily on effective QB play. But as noted, our WR room was also decimated in 2021, so it’s not all on the QB, he wasn’t getting much help. Our offense always played to our strengths, a QB that who is a threat to run and is an accurate passer, outside WRs who can get the 50/50 ball more than 50% of the time, quick/sure handed slot guys, and serviceable RB’s that can keep the defense honest. When the QB struggles, the system struggles. We need to have the right QB to be effective.
And maybe Streeter will be a bust, who knows, but the data doesn’t support that, at least not yet.
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Lot o points [155633]
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Appears today that Dabo disagrees with you.
Jan 12, 2023, 11:58 PM
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This is fun.
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Legend [16900]
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Legend [16121]
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Heisman Winner [139873]
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I will give you 500 tnet dollars...
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Jan 10, 2023, 4:37 PM
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if you take me with you to that weight room.
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All-In [26469]
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Don't fall for it ... TNet doesn't have paper currency ...
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Jan 10, 2023, 4:42 PM
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yet.
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Team Captain [462]
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My only argument, is that as a fan on the outside, it
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Jan 10, 2023, 4:37 PM
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appears Kelly, Saban and Day are willing to adapt and not take it, while we are convinced that if we keep doing the same thing the results will change.
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Lot o points [155633]
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Short version: UGA may not be great next year, we
Jan 10, 2023, 4:39 PM
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Still aren’t great.
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CU Guru [1266]
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Re: Regarding a UGA “dynasty” and a Clemson “demise”
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Jan 10, 2023, 4:43 PM
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Well said from start to finish. What many fail to understand is that there are 100+ other fanbases that want it just as bad as the next guy. There are 5-10 teams each year with a legitimate shot and about 4-5 of them that have a shot most every year. We were one of the 4-5 team and are now in the 5-10 group, or maybe a little out of it.
The result of a couple of years of being off, combined with a few years of others being on, have led us to where we are. We are at a crossroads and need to decide which role we want to play.
To anyone that says our record the last two years was good, I say it may be good to the teams that don't want to be in the race, but it's not good enough to fight the new, big dog.
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MVP [533]
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spot on Wrangler****
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Jan 10, 2023, 4:47 PM
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110%er [9889]
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Legend [19567]
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CU Guru [1061]
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Re: So we're exactly where Georgia was 2 years ago
Jan 10, 2023, 9:08 PM
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No. Our records may be similar but we are not at all willing to adapt.
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All-In [38453]
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Winning is very hard. Staying on top is harder.
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Jan 10, 2023, 4:44 PM
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I see Tigers as having a very good team again in 2023. We are not perfect at every position, but no teams are.
CLEMSON is one of the few teams in the national conversation, before Dabo that was not the case.
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All-TigerNet [10401]
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The rules of the sport were completely different then.***
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Jan 10, 2023, 4:47 PM
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110%er [9666]
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Good perspective, sir.***
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Jan 10, 2023, 5:01 PM
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Orange Blooded [4550]
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Re: Regarding a UGA “dynasty” and a Clemson “demise”
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Jan 10, 2023, 5:15 PM
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Best punters in the nation Will Spiers? Lmao
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110%er [9889]
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Re: Regarding a UGA “dynasty” and a Clemson “demise”
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Jan 10, 2023, 5:19 PM
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(pretty average career...huh?)
Original walk-on who earned a scholarship en route to becoming a five-year starter at punter
Started 69 games, a Clemson and modern FBS record
Averaged 41.4 yards on 292 career punts, finishing with 108 punts downed inside the 20, 17 touchbacks and 59 punts of 50-plus yards
Posted career net average of 39.4 yards per punt
Departed with school records for starts (69), career punts (292), career punts of 50-plus yards (59), career punts downed inside the 20 (108) and total punting yards (12,095)
His 41.4-yard punting average ranked fifth in school history at the time of his departure
Held three of the top six seasons on record in net punting average by a Clemson punter at the end of his career
Joined Christian Wilkins and Dalton Freeman as only the third Clemson player ever to earn four career All-ACC Academic Team selections.
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Orange Blooded [4550]
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Re: Regarding a UGA “dynasty” and a Clemson “demise”
Jan 10, 2023, 5:21 PM
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That doesn’t make him one of the best in the nations. Sorry! He was way too inconsistent.
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110%er [6104]
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Re: Regarding a UGA “dynasty” and a Clemson “demise”
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Jan 10, 2023, 5:23 PM
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Great post. Worth the length.
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Lot o points [155633]
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That last line will be on my tombstone.***
Jan 10, 2023, 5:25 PM
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110%er [6321]
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Re: Regarding a UGA “dynasty” and a Clemson “demise”
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Jan 10, 2023, 5:25 PM
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Nah, UGA has it.
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All-Conference [404]
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Re: Regarding a UGA “dynasty” and a Clemson “demise”
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Jan 10, 2023, 5:28 PM
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It’s very simple. If you are elite at QB with our current talent everywhere else, you can win a Natty.
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Commissioner [922]
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Re: Regarding a UGA “dynasty” and a Clemson “demise”
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Jan 10, 2023, 5:35 PM
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Well said and very well written. You make many good points.
The one thing not mentioned however was the UGA had just started their crazy recruiting run in 2017, their 2021 roster was loaded with starters from their 2018/2019/2020 classes. The are even more stacked now.
We have several holes in our roster right now, fingers crossed we can catch lightening in a bottle as we have had before. Other than OL and DT, we are not a deep team. If we can have very good QB play and avoid the injury bug maybe we can make a run. Our schedule will be much more difficult next year.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Regarding a UGA “dynasty” and a Clemson “demise”
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Jan 10, 2023, 5:56 PM
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The hardest thing in all of sports is to repeat as champions.
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Hall of Famer [24509]
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Well said....***
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Jan 10, 2023, 8:40 PM
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110%er [5471]
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Re: Regarding a UGA “dynasty” and a Clemson “demise”
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Jan 10, 2023, 8:52 PM
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Lol. I just posted something similar before seeing your post! Sorry not trying plagiarize.
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110%er [6877]
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From what I’ve seen lately, not sure we will be one
Jan 11, 2023, 5:11 AM
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of the challengers to UGA. Hope I’m wrong.
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All-Pro [699]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 460
Joined: 12/6/21
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Re: Regarding a UGA “dynasty” and a Clemson “demise”
Jan 11, 2023, 10:49 AM
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I think the idea is that nothing last forever and true dynasties are rare indeed. I think the measuring stick of a dynasty is winning 3 championships in 5 years. We were close, Georgia is close now. Heck 10-15 years ago Florida was close. But the only team to do it recently is Alabama. Before that you need to go all the way back to Miami in the 80’s who won 4 in 8 years.
The spotlight in college football is constantly moving. No doubt it’s on Georgia right now, but it won’t be there forever. And when it’s gone the UGA message boards will look just like us.
Teams go up and teams go down, that’s what makes being a fan for life fun. Maybe Clemson is really on a decline, or maybe it’s just a bump in the road. Either way I realize I can’t control how the games go so I try not to worry about it too much.
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