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Recruiting
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Replies: 49  

Recruiting

[3]
Jan 2, 2021, 7:32 AM

2016: Dexter Lawrence, elite. Xavier Kelly, transferred. Nyles Pinckney, no NFL future
2017: Justin Foster, good player. Jordan Williams, no NFL future. Logan Rudolph, retired early.
2018: Xavier Thomas, bust. KJ Henry, bust. Josh Belk, transferred. Justin Mascoll, good player. Darnell Jeffries, no NFL future
2019: Tyler Davis, elite. Ruke Orhorhoro, has potential. Etinosa Reuben, non-factor. Tayquon Johnson, moved to Oline. Logan Cash, retired. Greg Williams, non-factor

In retrospect, we recruited very poorly at Dline from 2016-2019. That is why we’ve seen these results the last 2 season. Just not enough talent at defensive line. Cannot generate a pass rush with the front 4. Clelin, Christian, Dexter, and Austin was an elite defensive line. We have to get back to that level and sustain it.

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Re: Recruiting

[4]
Jan 2, 2021, 7:41 AM

They recruit Olinemen well. They are stacked. We have guys like Trotter on our OL who should be playing for Wake at best.

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Re: Recruiting

[4]
Jan 2, 2021, 8:28 AM

Oline recruiting lol.

Cade Stewart, 3 star #2021
Jordan McFadden, 3 star #819
Mason Trotter, 2 star unranked

3 of one top 6 guys right there. It’s almost shocking that Ohio State’s front 7 dominated us.

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Re: Recruiting

[3]
Jan 2, 2021, 9:24 AM

this is good analysis...yes lacking elite D players showed itself the second half of the season and was obvious last night...ND even exposed that fact in the first game with them and we ignored it (blamed it on COVID & injuries) in the ACC championship we beat a decent ND top 15 team but not elite team. Fans need to put those last two nattys in the past and get back on that ROY bus until we can redo the 2018 roster.

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Re: Recruiting


Jan 2, 2021, 11:39 AM

^^^THis x100

Ignoring the realities of how the transfer portal is changing college football...x100000000000

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Re: Recruiting


Jan 2, 2021, 6:40 PM

Those noting weaknesses on both lines are on the money. LSU batted us around and pushed O lineman into the backfieldl, and OSU toyed with us. Until Clemson beefs up both lines we will always be threatened when we hit the playoffs, where the big boys play. We can handle the ACC and even the faux ACC teams like ND, but ...

As for the transfer portal, you will ever see Swinney pluck anybody from it. The entire culture of his team is built around teamwork and togetherness, and an outsider coming in with a year left to play would literally destroy everything he has built. If you want to play for Clemson, do it out of high school. There are no second lives there.

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Re: Recruiting

[1]
Jan 2, 2021, 7:41 AM

Missing on Burch and Pickens really hurt, Belk transfer added to the misery. Dline will be better next year with experience, but the oline recruiting and development needs to be seriously evaluated.

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Re: Recruiting


Jan 2, 2021, 8:30 AM

Bresee and Murphy are as advertised. The jury is still out on Tre Williams and Capehart. If they live up the hype, then we’ll have an elite defensive line again in 2022.

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Lol.***

[1]
Jan 2, 2021, 7:42 AM



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Re: Recruiting

[4]
Jan 2, 2021, 7:53 AM

Would you like Brent Venables e-mail address.
I'm certain he'd love hearing from you on how poor his recruiting efforts have been the past 4 years.
Or maybe you think you can recruit better. If so apply to Clemson University Athletics.com.
I also understand Will Muschamp is available.

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Re: Recruiting

[2]
Jan 2, 2021, 8:31 AM

Are you going to be okay?

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What statements, in the OP, are you disputing?****


Jan 2, 2021, 5:12 PM



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Holding!


Jan 2, 2021, 7:56 AM

SEC allows it!

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Dude, XT and KJ were top 5 players nationally

[2]
Jan 2, 2021, 9:31 AM

To say we haven’t recruited well because you think they are busts is silly - every team in the country, Bama included, would have killed for those two guys, and they were consensus best players at their position in the country.

You can gripe that we haven’t developed them further, sure. But recruiting is a bit of a crapshoot, and random injuries, chance and other factors that can’t be assessed play into another a top recruit pans out

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Loss of Marion Hobby and Todd Bates showing?

[1]
Jan 2, 2021, 9:32 AM

Is Lemansky Hall getting it done?

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Re: Loss of Marion Hobby and Todd Bates showing?


Jan 2, 2021, 9:50 AM

When did Todd Bates leave?

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Re: Loss of Marion Hobby and Todd Bates showing?


Jan 2, 2021, 12:22 PM

Tough to say so far. I mean, Myles Murphy looks like he’s going to be a top 10 pick one day. But, that could just be because of his natural abilities. XT and KJ certainly haven’t developed like we had hoped.

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Re: Loss of Marion Hobby and Todd Bates showing?


Jan 2, 2021, 12:54 PM

My biggest gripes about XT or KJ is that they always look completely undersized...you see what Bama and UGA has on their ends in terms of size and it’s not even close.

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Re: Loss of Marion Hobby and Todd Bates showing?


Jan 2, 2021, 1:45 PM

Totally agree. XT looks more like a 3-4 edge rusher. KJ still hasn’t developed enough physically. Must not be a weight room warrior.

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Re: Loss of Marion Hobby and Todd Bates showing?

[1]
Jan 2, 2021, 2:53 PM

KJ Henry had a decent year , not all world by any means but he's not a bust .
X has for whatever reason just not been on the field enough to develop . He may be a bust at this point.

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DB23


Re: Recruiting


Jan 2, 2021, 9:49 AM

I get your point but you've conveniently left off 2015 and 2020 which had Wilkins, Cle, Bressee and Murphy. By that count we're talking about 6 nfl 1st rd draft picks in 6 years. XT cost himself being #7 and the transfers shouldn't count against Clemson (ask Kirby how he feels about his qb decisions). Alot of this also proves what a crapshoot the recruiting service ratings are and how to do you grade a kid v. high school competition

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Re: Recruiting


Jan 2, 2021, 12:25 PM

I left out 2015 because none of those recruits were on last years team or this years team. And our defensive has performed poorly since they left. I left one 2020 because they are just freshmen this year. The fact is, from 2016-2019, we only signed 2 elite defensive lineman. Dexter Lawrence and Tyler Davis. Those classes were the reason our defensive line has been so poor the last 2 years. 2020’s class looks like it’s going to be elite. Future is bright.

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Re: Recruiting

[1]
Jan 2, 2021, 3:11 PM

Lawrence and Davis are more than 95% of the teams have signed. You might consider how hard it is to sign players when the linemen that are here mean that they will have to wait on playing time. When you leave off 2 stellar bookend years you ignore how they can affect the ones in between.

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Re: Recruiting


Jan 2, 2021, 4:41 PM

Maybe we are talking past each other. Clemson is an elite program but hasn’t had an elite defensive line the last 2 seasons. That is because of our recruiting at that position from 2016-2019. And it was reflected in our performances against LSU and Ohio State, teams that were able to push our guys around with ease. Kind of hard to win when you can’t generate a pass rush with your front 4. You would agree?

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Re: Recruiting

[1]
Jan 3, 2021, 9:03 AM

Yes our lines have not been as good, but is it really because of recruiting? Yes and no. Like I said, it is tough to recruit when you appear to be stacked at the position. This year was a down year as well for the DL recruiting IMO. You don't think any of that has to do with last year's class? Other than Page I wouldn't call any elite. Doesn't mean they won't be great but it seems less likely coming in.

You also have to ask are the elite young men that we got during those years living up to the billing. Them not is not necessarily a product of poor evaluation. It is a heck of a guessing game trying to assess talent when they are playing against such inferior players. It is even more of a guess on how they are going to fill out as they mature.

Possibly the biggest unknown is how are they going to adjust to college life. These young men have their entire lives change in an instant. They go from getting up at 7:30 to get to school on time to getting up at 5:00 to make it to workouts on time. They have to spend much more time studying because football is not the only thing that is on another level from HS. Socially they go from the center of attention to another face in the crowd. Some adjust better than others but it is not an easy thing to evaluate.

You picked a 4 year period in recruiting to say "Here's the problem." However, you neglect that we replaced possibly the best college defensive line ever 2 years ago. What did you expect to happen, a new best ever?

I think that we might have the pieces on the line already to argue the point but they need experience. We should end up with a monster DL again for the next couple of years. Stop analyzing a problem that just doesn't exist.

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Re: Recruiting


Jan 2, 2021, 9:59 AM

He's pointing out why the D line has had problems which is the truth. Sometimes you miss on the evaluation of player's and they don't pan out.

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You could definitely see the talent gap last night

[3]
Jan 2, 2021, 10:02 AM

All across the field. Trevor might be marginally better than Fields (maybe), and Etienne is probably a little better than Sermon, but those advantages are completely negated by the massive advantage OSU has at OL. They were better at WR this year and have been out-recruiting us pretty badly at that position over the last two recruiting cycles.

On defense i think they were better and more talented at every position and were last year as well. We do have some very talented young players, but 2020 really highlighted some areas where we didn't recruit well in the last few classes. We got beat in the trenches in a lot of games this year - not just against teams with elite talent like OSU.

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Re: You could definitely see the talent gap last night

emoji_events [5]
Jan 2, 2021, 10:11 AM


All across the field. Trevor might be marginally better than Fields (maybe), and Etienne is probably a little better than Sermon, but those advantages are completely negated by the massive advantage OSU has at OL. They were better at WR this year and have been out-recruiting us pretty badly at that position over the last two recruiting cycles.

On defense i think they were better and more talented at every position and were last year as well. We do have some very talented young players, but 2020 really highlighted some areas where we didn't recruit well in the last few classes. We got beat in the trenches in a lot of games this year - not just against teams with elite talent like OSU.


Very good points.

Mitch Hyatt not getting drafted should have been an eye opener. Dabo needs to go out and get an elite OL coach with a proven record getting guys into the NFL.

We all know what happened to FSU when their OL fell apart over years.

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Re: You could definitely see the talent gap last night

[1]
Jan 2, 2021, 10:11 AM


All across the field. Trevor might be marginally better than Fields (maybe), and Etienne is probably a little better than Sermon, but those advantages are completely negated by the massive advantage OSU has at OL. They were better at WR this year and have been out-recruiting us pretty badly at that position over the last two recruiting cycles.

On defense i think they were better and more talented at every position and were last year as well. We do have some very talented young players, but 2020 really highlighted some areas where we didn't recruit well in the last few classes. We got beat in the trenches in a lot of games this year - not just against teams with elite talent like OSU.


Very good points.

Mitch Hyatt not getting drafted should have been an eye opener. Dabo needs to go out and get an elite OL coach with a proven record getting guys into the NFL.

We all know what happened to FSU when their OL fell apart over years.

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Re: You could definitely see the talent gap last night


Jan 2, 2021, 12:27 PM

Ohio State had a significant advantage in the trenches. Definitely showed in recruiting. Their WRs were better because we were missing Ross, Ngata, and Ladson has been hurt all year.

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They signed the #1 WR this year and the #1 and #5

[2]
Jan 2, 2021, 2:00 PM

WRs last year. Garrett Wilson was the #2 WR 2 years ago. Those guys are all 5*s and they signed a handful of 4* prospects to go with them. They flat out beat us head to head for Julian Fleming last year.

We've obviously done fine recruiting WR, but OSU has done an even better job - as has Alabama. When we played OSU and Bama in 2016 our WR corp was vastly superior to either of them, as was our QB play. That's no longer the case, and I don't believe we can expect it to be the case any longer going forward as both of those programs have seemingly changed their focus a bit in both recruiting and coaching philosophy (Bama absolutely has).

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Re: They signed the #1 WR this year and the #1 and #5


Jan 2, 2021, 2:48 PM

Bingo. Dabo was a trail blazer in that respect. He saw where offenses were headed a la p12 and b12 and then took the best from Bama, elite defense. Bama, imo, always had the talent but as was b1g, still ran 3 yards and a could of dust.

Great points by all.

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Re: They signed the #1 WR this year and the #1 and #5


Jan 2, 2021, 4:42 PM

I get that. But, if Clemson had Ross, Ngata, and a fully healthy Ladson then we would have had the better WRs. That’s all I’m saying.

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Re: Recruiting

[2]
Jan 2, 2021, 11:34 AM

Leon

"Clelin, Christian, Dexter, and Austin was an elite defensive line. We have to get back to that level and sustain it."

NOBODY in the country can keep 4 professional D-Lineman year in and year out. If you think we can sustain that mountaintop, you are delusional.

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Re: Recruiting

[1]
Jan 2, 2021, 12:32 PM

No doubt. I’m just pointing out the fact that we missed on defensive line recruits after them. If XT and KJ lived up to the hype, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

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Re: Recruiting


Jan 2, 2021, 7:22 PM

I am more concerned about our O-Line than i am about our D-Line.

Although, I must say our recruiting looks good in 2020 and 2022

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That's not really the problem. The problem is that we've


Jan 2, 2021, 2:08 PM

maybe had 1 guy at the level of those 4 guys over the last 2 seasons. That's Tyler Davis and he struggled to stay healthy this year. We don't need 3 1st round picks and a 4th round pick on the DL at the same time, but we do need more than 1 that's at least close to that caliber. Murphy and Bresee look like they will be that caliber of player, but, with the exception of Tyler Davis, none of the other guys we signed in the 2017, 2018, or 2019 cycles have been and that has hurt.

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Re: Odd how OP's post copies---almost word for word---


Jan 2, 2021, 12:26 PM

another post on "another" website. I'm sure it's just a coincidence.......right?? LOL

2016 recruiting class:
-Nyles Pinckney. He’s a great kid but just another body. JAG
-Xavier Kelly: Great kid, project, never developed, transferred. DE we had to kick inside.
-Dex Star: War Daddy.

2017 class
-Justin Foster: Would have had a great season and we really missed him but covid destroyed him (I think)
-Jordan Williams: JAG. DE we had to kick inside.
-Logan Rudolph: He flashed before leaving early to be an actor or something but he was always too small.

2018 class
-Xavier Thomas: XT isn’t a war daddy. Major disappointment two years in a row. I understand covid hurt him bad but he wasn’t on a great trajectory. For his recruiting hype he’s a bust.
-KJ Henry: KJ was highly rated but still a developmental guy. He gritted through it last year but he’s not as far along as he needs to be 3 years in. He’s bigger but it seems like he lost his speed.
-Josh Belk: I feel bad for the kid since he didn’t love football but thats a red flag you think we would have caught.
-Justin Mascoll: JAG. Can’t set the edge, over pursues.
-Darnell Jeffries: Developmental prospect. Great guy but a "who?" whenever he is on the field.

2019 recruiting class
-Tyler Davis: Stud.
-Logan Cash: Who?
-Tayquon Johnson: Who?
-Etinosa Reuben: Development/project guy. I think kicked in to DT but could be wrong.
-Ruke Orhorhoro: Major development. Maybe kicked in to DT too?

2020 recruiting class
-Breese: Stud
-Murphy: Stud
-Capehart: Not sure what happened to him this year.
-Tre Williams: Don’t know how much he played this year

2021 recruiting class
-Payton Page: Not a guaranteed star. Looooooow floor, very high ceiling.
-Zaire Patterson: fingers crossed.

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May 6, 2020: "I know I went to Clemson and got a degree, prob more than you ever did. And I bet my IQ is higher than yours too !" sociologycoot843


Re: Odd how this post mirrors ---almost word for word---


Jan 2, 2021, 12:30 PM

People like copying me.

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Re: Odd how this post mirrors ---almost word for word---

[2]
Jan 2, 2021, 12:31 PM

Except for the fact that this was posted about 16 hours before your post---I'd almost believe you.

Sorry, busted.

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May 6, 2020: "I know I went to Clemson and got a degree, prob more than you ever did. And I bet my IQ is higher than yours too !" sociologycoot843


Re: Odd how this post mirrors ---almost word for word---


Jan 2, 2021, 12:34 PM

Proof?

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Re: Odd how this post mirrors ---almost word for word---


Jan 2, 2021, 12:37 PM

I posted this at 7:30 this morning. I want you to show the proof on that post from some other site 16 hours prior. That would be 3:30 yesterday afternoon, well before kickoff.

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Re: Recruiting

[1]
Jan 2, 2021, 12:56 PM

OL recruiting and development needs to be revamped...completely. They have gotten worse.

The secondary is an issue too. I question what Mike Reed is doing now...They looked awful last night.

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Re: Recruiting

[1]
Jan 2, 2021, 1:47 PM

Oline recruiting has gotten better. The 2020 class was the best we’ve ever signed. I think Parks will be special. Tchio is going to be really good as well. Mayes has potential to be really good too. The 2021 Oline class was really good as well. 2022 looks like it’s going to be really good too. We will legitimately have nothing but 4 stars in our two deep within 2 years.

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Yeah, we are paying right now for OL recruiting mistakes

[1]
Jan 2, 2021, 2:14 PM

made primarily in 2017-2019. Those classes were very short on quantity and seem to have been pretty short on quality as well - which is one of the major dangers of not signing many OL because that's a very tough position to project.

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Re: Yeah, we are paying right now for OL recruiting mistakes


Jan 2, 2021, 4:43 PM

Oline help is on the way lol. 20, 21, and 22 are phenomenal Oline classes

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Realistic analysis, good post****


Jan 2, 2021, 5:04 PM



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Re: Realistic analysis, good post****


Jan 3, 2021, 8:18 AM

DT looks bright.
Tyler Davis and Bresee are the real deals. So much potential with Ruke, Tre Williams, and Capehart. Payton Page is a mammoth. This position needs more competitive depth.

DE looks shaky.
Myles Murphy is elite. The other DE spot will be occupied by XT, KJ, or Mascoll all in their 4th years. Cade Denhoff and Zaire Patterson can hopefully develop quickly. This position has to be better at generating a pass rush.

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Re: Recruiting

[1]
Jan 2, 2021, 5:53 PM

Clemson isn’t going to get everyone. I’m sure there were other guys offered in those classes, but not every kid is going to pick Clemson.

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Re: Recruiting

[1]
Jan 2, 2021, 6:34 PM

At the end of the day, had Xavier Thomas and KJ Henry lived up the hype, this would be a mute point. Two 5 star DEs that just haven’t developed quickly enough. Fortunately for us, Bresee and Murphy look like they’ll be top 10 picks one day. Can’t wait.

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