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Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 10:36 AM
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We have had strike out games of 17 16 13 11 16 10 12 14 16 and 14. I didn’t include Hartford because they haven’t won a game all year so we shouldn’t even play competition like that. Until you address the elephant in the room it is going to be a long year. If our tigers don’t start addressing and fixing the approach at the plate then it won’t matter. Once we get into ACC play and see better pitching we are in trouble. We hit 6 home runs last night against coastal but struck out 14 times. They were up 15-0 so I’m sure we saw their backend bullpen arms to get them work.
I cannot believe this is the offensive approach that we teach and do not try to change this slop up. Launch angle is garbage and unfortunately this team needs months of development to fix.
If anything is needed it is a hitting coach that can work with players and develop them. You can bring all the talent and top 10 recruiting classes you want but if you don’t have coaches who know how to coach and develop these kids don’t have a chance.
Coastal is good but not that good. We now have 5 losses at home. Back in WIlhelm and Leggett’s days they wouldn’t have 5 losses at home in 2-3 years.
Clemson administration needs to make a change fast before this team is 500 or last in the ACC. Not saying it needs to be Monte but whoever coaches the offense has to go. Make a statement.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 10:42 AM
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You clearly don't know what "launch angle" means.
I also think it's funny that Clemson gave up 16 runs and scored 7 and the offense is what you choose to bash because we struck out a lot.
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Hall of Famer [22257]
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I don't know enough about beisbol to get into a deep discussion
Mar 23, 2022, 10:55 AM
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about "launch angles" and all that. But those strikeout numbers he posted, if accurate... are off the chain, right? Or is that the norm now, at the college level? I guess I'm just old and remember when a MLB pitcher struck out 20 batters, it was rare and a very big deal. Again, I don't know...
But I was listening to some sports talk show in the car a while back, and they talked about how strikeouts per game in MLB have doubled since the 80's or something like that. Not positive, I could be off a little on that. Because now everybody is swinging for the fences... HR or strike out.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: I don't know enough about beisbol to get into a deep discussion
Mar 23, 2022, 11:10 AM
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The strike out numbers are bad, but I thought today was a weird time to bash the offensive output after scoring 7 runs in the face of the pitching falling apart for the game.
A 4-1 loss seems like the appropriate time to shift complaints to the offense if someone wants to complain.
In terms of the "strike out epidemic", yes everyone strikes out more.
There are multiple reasons that this is the case across baseball, whether it be MLB, college or lower levels.
One thing is for sure that everybody wants to blame it on "swinging for the fences on every pitch".
Everybody isn't trying to hit home runs on every swing, but hitters are trying to take swings that produce extra bases.
It takes 3 singles to score a run. Mix in a double or triple and it only takes 2 hits to score a run. Obviously a home run only takes more. Very plain to see that extra base hits are better, which nobody would argue.
Combat players taking more aggressive swings with the change across baseball to a lot higher percentage of off-speed pitches and it creates a much greater tendency to swing and miss for hitters.
Guys are now creating sliders and curveballs that spin at over 3000 rpms which means "read the spin" is no longer a viable way to notice that a pitcher is throwing a breaking ball instead of a fastball. If you recognize the pitch later it's harder to make contact.
There are also more reasons for higher strike outs that involve specialty pitchers, more pitching substitutions and the increasing availability of pitching development programs for guys who are willing to put in the time.
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CU Medallion [64517]
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Yes...if you want to complain about the offense...
Mar 23, 2022, 11:19 AM
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there have been other games this year that would be better example to support the argument. Last weeks loss to Georgia State for example.
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Hall of Famer [22257]
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Thank you, very informative. But has besibol gone the way of
Mar 23, 2022, 5:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: I don't know enough about beisbol to get into a deep discussion ] |
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other sports, in which basic skills and fundamentals we took for granted for decades are kinda lost now? ... bunts to move the runner over, hitting into the gap, hitting to a certain side of the field, plate discipline to draw a walk (as good as a ball hit dead solid perfect, but straight to a outfielder who's charging it... it's still just a single!). Etc. etc. Again, I could be wrong, but it seems like that, as a casual observer, who basically stopped watching MLB after the '94 strike. I admit it, I hold a mean grudge. LOL
In golf now it's "grip it and rip it"... all about distance off the tee now. The short game and precision is not as important as it used to be. Courses designed 50 or 100 years ago couldn't foresee guys hitting it 350 yards. Only power hitters could go 250-275. Now there are "drivable Par 4s"... do what? Mostly due to equipment and ball technology... give all those long ball hitters a persimmon wood driver and a blade putter that looks like it came from a putt-putt course, and let's check out their scores.
In basketball... it's launch a 30 footer or isolate your "star player" for a dunk. In futbol all the rule changes and how the refs call the game favor the offense, they want high scoring games and TV ratings from people who would get bored in a good old 17-14 defensive battle.
/end rant
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CU Guru [1577]
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A quick answer;
Mar 25, 2022, 11:30 PM
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Check out some of the exaggerated infield shifts and then think about it. If a player knew how to bunt or hit opposite field they would take that shift for a single every at bat. Do they? No, they hit balls into the shift.
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110%er [9323]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 10:56 AM
[ in reply to Re: Offense only going to get worse. ] |
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I know exactly what it means. Pay attention to the rest of the season and watch how much worse it gets. Yes we gave up 16 but that wasn’t the point Einstein. We put the ball in play with the stupid all or nothing approach. We scored 7 runs off a sun belt conference teams worst pitchers because they had a 15 run lead and could get guys work. We still struck out 14 times. We put the ball in play for outs less than 50 percent.
When we get notre dame, Louisville, UVA starting pitching we are going to get eaten alive so yes that is what it s what I see.
When a coach teaches swing up, swing hard and hope we hit it far we are going nowhere.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 11:17 AM
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I notice you claim to know what it means, but you didn't care to state what it means.
If you think "swing up and swing hard" is what launch angle means then you have no clue.
Yes Clemson strikes out too much. Today is still a weird time to blame the strike outs for a loss.
Maybe Clemson will lose 1-0 today and strike out 20 times and then you can come on here tomorrow and make your same statements and I will say you are right.
Also, those teams you mentioned make everybody's hitters look stupid so it's not exactly an indictment of Clemson's hitter if the same happens on those weekends.
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 25, 2022, 7:44 AM
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TigersO
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Re: Offense only going to get worse. [1]
Mar 23, 2022, 11:17 AM
Reply
I notice you claim to know what it means, but you didn't care to state what it means.
If you think "swing up and swing hard" is what launch angle means then you have no clue.
Yes Clemson strikes out too much. Today is still a weird time to blame the strike outs for a loss.
Maybe Clemson will lose 1-0 today and strike out 20 times and then you can come on here tomorrow and make your same statements and I will say you are right.
Also, those teams you mentioned make everybody's hitters look stupid so it's not exactly an indictment of Clemson's hitter if the same happens on those weekends.
FSU AND NCS PLAYED A DH LAST WEEK. THAT IS DOUBLEHEADER FOR ALL YOU BASEBALL EXPERTS. IN THAT DH THERE WERE 48 STRIKEOUTS BETWEEN THE 2 TEAMS. STRIKEOUTS ARE NOT LIMITED TO CLEMSON BUT HEY I KNOW THAT DOES NOT FIT THE BANDWAGON WALMART FAN NARRATIVE.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 25, 2022, 8:38 PM
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You literally Make me log out and quit reading every time I see one of your comments
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Trainer [37]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 10:56 AM
[ in reply to Re: Offense only going to get worse. ] |
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I know exactly what it means. Pay attention to the rest of the season and watch how much worse it gets. Yes we gave up 16 but that wasn’t the point Einstein. We put the ball in play with the stupid all or nothing approach. We scored 7 runs off a sun belt conference teams worst pitchers because they had a 15 run lead and could get guys work. We still struck out 14 times. We put the ball in play for outs less than 50 percent.
When we get notre dame, Louisville, UVA starting pitching we are going to get eaten alive so yes that is what it s what I see.
When a coach teaches swing up, swing hard and hope we hit it far we are going nowhere.
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Trainer [37]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 10:56 AM
[ in reply to Re: Offense only going to get worse. ] |
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I know exactly what it means. Pay attention to the rest of the season and watch how much worse it gets. Yes we gave up 16 but that wasn’t the point Einstein. We put the ball in play with the stupid all or nothing approach. We scored 7 runs off a sun belt conference teams worst pitchers because they had a 15 run lead and could get guys work. We still struck out 14 times. We put the ball in play for outs less than 50 percent.
When we get notre dame, Louisville, UVA starting pitching we are going to get eaten alive so yes that is what it s what I see.
When a coach teaches swing up, swing hard and hope we hit it far we are going nowhere.
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Trainer [37]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 10:56 AM
[ in reply to Re: Offense only going to get worse. ] |
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I know exactly what it means. Pay attention to the rest of the season and watch how much worse it gets. Yes we gave up 16 but that wasn’t the point Einstein. We put the ball in play with the stupid all or nothing approach. We scored 7 runs off a sun belt conference teams worst pitchers because they had a 15 run lead and could get guys work. We still struck out 14 times. We put the ball in play for outs less than 50 percent.
When we get notre dame, Louisville, UVA starting pitching we are going to get eaten alive so yes that is what it s what I see.
When a coach teaches swing up, swing hard and hope we hit it far we are going nowhere.
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Trainer [37]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 10:58 AM
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Oops and sorry about the message like 10 times. My computer froze and I guess I hit reply too much. Lol.
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110%er [6436]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 10:56 AM
[ in reply to Re: Offense only going to get worse. ] |
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So, what do you recommend TigersO? Because clearly, what the coaches are doing now, and have been doing for the past few years isn’t working.
The offense and pitching need help.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 11:22 AM
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I agree that everything needs to improve.
I'm not one to make specific complaints, but I do feel that those who choose to complain should at least choose the aspect of the game that caused the loss or at least contributed to it the most.
Ex. Don't blame Clemson football's defense for a loss if we lose on a last second TD with a final score of 7-6.
Also, if Clemson wins and loses games by striking out 12-14 times every game, then maybe it's other aspects of the game that were more important to the result.
If Clemson gives up 16 runs and 15 in the first 3 innings, then the complaints should be about pitching not being able to get anybody out.
It doesn't make any sense to me to jump up and down about strike outs today when the game was over before we struck out one time.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 9:49 PM
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He pointed out the strikeouts over several games. You keep bringing up the one game. He's correct, with better pitching coming up on the schedule there should be concern.
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Standout [301]
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You clearly don’t know anything about baseball
Mar 23, 2022, 11:00 AM
[ in reply to Re: Offense only going to get worse. ] |
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He is 100% correct on launch angle coaching. It’s destroying baseball and it comes from travel ball and showcase tournaments. It is poor fundamental hitting. Scoring 7 runs off of coastals Freshmen pitchers because you’re already down 15-0 doesn’t mean a #### thing. We were 1 hit through 4 and down 15-0. We strikeout entirely too much. Caden Grice was unbelievable last year but now after another year in our program and our offensive philosophy he is striking out 45% of his at bats. It’s time for Monte to go. It’s Miller time. Bring back David Miller.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: You clearly don’t know anything about baseball
Mar 23, 2022, 11:24 AM
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Since you say I don't know anything about baseball, please explain "launch angle coaching" to me.
Then tell me why it came from travel ball and showcase tournaments, please.
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Standout [301]
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Gladly. It is teaching kids to swing with more of
Mar 23, 2022, 2:52 PM
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An upper cut type swing through the hitting zone as opposed to having a more traditional level swing through the hitting zone. What this does is cause you to hit for more power but it also makes you basically a pull hitter. You are looking for pitches on the inner half you can drive. Travel coaches and showcase tournaments are where this type of coaching is predominant because travel ball and showcase tournaments aren’t abou the team, it’s about showcasing the individual. So you don’t learn situational hitting, bunting, slapping an outside pitch the opposite way to move a runner. It’s all about hitting for power and showcasing what the individual can do.
In the real game of baseball trying to apply those same principles doesn’t work. Watch how many of our players hit against a shift for them to pull the baseball. Even in the shift the pitchers are pitching our hitters soft and on the outer half. Which tells me they know we fastballs on the inner half well, but we can’t hit off speed or cover the outer half of the plate. Instead of going with a pitch and hitting it opposite field where there is no defense, we are still trying to pull and drive that pitch. So that leads to pulling off of the baseball and striking out or rolling over a soft ground ball. Cooper Ingle and Corbett are right now our best two hitters. They both stay through the zone a long time and will take that outside pitch opposite field.
The reason I brought up Grice is his swing last year was so much better than this year after being coached by our guys for another year. He used to would go opposite field with plenty of power but no he has a longer bigger swing and is trying g to pull and drive the baseball more. As a result instead of batting .350 and being a dangerous all around hitter, he is only a power hitter and strikes out almost as much as he even puts the ball in play. He can’t hit a change up nor a breaking ball on the outer half. He has lost half of the plate as a result the hitting coaching at Clemson.
We have been this type of team since Monte got here. We don’t steal bases, we don’t hit and run, we don’t bunt over. We strikeout a lot and hope for home runs. It’s why we suck in post season baseball when pitching is generally much better than in the regular season. A See sucks too.
We need change. Monte can’t get it done and much like Bowden, refuses to make coaching changes that possibly could have saved his job.
Bring back David Miller and we will be in Omaha in 5 years.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Gladly. It is teaching kids to swing with more of
Mar 25, 2022, 11:35 AM
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This is the response I was waiting for.
You are completely wrong.
Launch angle is the angle in which a batted ball leaves the bat.
Teaching guys to hit ground balls is teaching a certain launch angle.
Teaching guys to hit line drives is teaching a certain launch angle.
Teaching guys to hit fly balls is teaching a certain launch angle.
Even teaching guys to bunt produces a desired launch angle because every coach in the history of baseball teaches guys to bunt the ball on the ground which means you are teaching a negative launch angle.
So when someone makes the statement that a coach's problem is teaching a launch angle swing, it should remove them from any further discussions about the hitting aspect of baseball.
Further, the discussion of launch angle did not come from travel baseball because there is a certain level of technology that is required to even measure the launch angle of a batted ball.
Golf has been doing it for ages and major league baseball adopted the practice of showing the launch angle metric along with exit velocity to give more explanation of what makes home runs go as far as they do.
As for Clemson's specific approach, Monte isn't telling guys to pull outside pitches to try to hit home runs, because even if he does want them to try to hit a home run he feels they are strong enough to hit the ball to the opposite field out of the park. So blaming Monte for players trying to pull everything is pointing the finger in the wrong direction.
It's funny that you bring up Grice because I talked to pro scouts last year at the beginning of the season that were shocked at his development as a hitter over his first fall at Clemson. In high school they had him pegged as a guy that did not have "fastball bat speed". Scouts expected his early impact in college to be on the mound because they did not feel his swing would work quickly in the college game with higher velocity pitching. I quote, "he was a guy that crushed offspeed pitches and bad high school fastballs as a senior in high school". The Clemson staff made adjustments to get him prepared to be one of our best hitters as a true freshman. Now you claim it is their fault that he has gotten worse?
Finally, Clemson's lack of postseason success under Monte Lee can be put squarely on the back of not having an elite pitching staff. There have been multiple reasons for not having an elite staff, and what is worst of all is that Clemson didn't get a chance at postseason success with Monte's best pitching because of COVID.
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Standout [301]
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You know what we are discussing with launch angle
Mar 25, 2022, 3:30 PM
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Smart ###. We all know every ball hit of a bat has a launch angle so stop trying to act like you some wise batting guru. Anyone that talks baseball knows what teaching launch angle swing is referring to so you trying to explain to me what a launch angle is shows me what kind of guy you are. We aren’t 12 years old and we understand that launch angles are used in other sports so don’t act like you just enlightened us in some way.
You are absolutely wrong when you won’t contribute this type of swing to travel ball and showcase tournaments. My guess is you’re one of these coaches that makes money off of parents and coach this ########.
As for trying to pull outside pitches again you’re wrong. It’s a philosophy on hitting that is being coached to try and drive everything out of the park. When you are doing this you are giving up your ability to go the other way. Will someone occasionally hit an opposite field home run, yes, but it won’t happen often. Again it’s why teams shift us to pull the baseball and continue to pitch us outside. Pitching us outside if we didn’t try to pull everything and shifting to the pull would have the opposite effect if our hitters could go with the baseball. Coaches scout and know we still try to pull and lift everything.
Since you know those scouts so we’ll why don’t you ask them about where his swing is after a full year in.
Our pitching staff isn’t bad, our coaching staff is. See sucks and ran off several freshmen pitchers out of the Columbia area after fall ball. He needs to go as well, but offensively under Monte Lee and his big ball philosophy we have sucked ###. Explain to me how his big ball philosophy; minimal stealing, minimal hit and runs, minimal bunting, minimal attempts at productive outs, and trying to hit everything out of the park has helped our baseball team.
Just got shutout today by Pitt.
I’ll be happy to discuss the intricacies and every aspect of baseball with you since you think explaining to us what we already all knew in a ####### attempt at a gotcha moment.
If you want to talk at the PHD level and not the elementary level reach out to me and I’ll be happy to have those discussions.
Until then, we fired a HOF coach in #7, so we could make excuses to keep a coach that can’t get out of a regional and had the first losing season In over 40 years last year.
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Walk-On [104]
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Re: You know what we are discussing with launch angle
Mar 26, 2022, 1:23 PM
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I concur with just about everything you’ve pointed out. Admittedly I am and always will be a big Leggett fan.
What I would add to the conversation goes beyond just the X and O’s on the diamond and pertains to moxie on and off the field.
With Jack’s teams there was always a certain level of confidence amongst the players. In my opinion we’ve lost the intimidation factor when an opposing team comes into Doug Kingsmore.
Beginning with how we used to line up for the National Anthem, to the breakout after the umpires meeting to an awaiting mob of fired up players to the mere on the field presence of the coach, coaching 3rd base.
I realize every coach has their own theories and ideas about the best way to build team spirit and unity, but to me it has been sadly lacking since the loss of ole #7.
Just an observation by a 30 year season ticket holder who loves Clemson Baseball.
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110%er [5558]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 11:15 AM
[ in reply to Re: Offense only going to get worse. ] |
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I'm not a hitting coach, but I also can't understand why simply stating his opinion results in an attack. (?)
A batter's job is to get on base, strike outs are the enemy of that goal. Monte likes aggressive hitters, and that's a good thing. But, on base percentage matters. If Clemson is getting mowed down at the plate it's a problem, and like he said it's probably only going to get worse once we get into ACC play.
I have a friend who coached college baseball for 10+ years, 7 of them in the SEC. He is/was a great hitting coach. He taught kids to be "nightmares" to strike out at the plate, but be fundamentally sound enough to hit any pitch. "Built from the feet up" is what he called it. My son learned this early and was recruited and played with several Div 1 baseball players. It resulted in ridiculous batting averages, and OBP%. Hitters who get on base a lot tend to score a lot, and that wins a lot baseball games.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 11:27 AM
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The new school of baseball favors on base percentage above batting average much more than it did in the old days.
You are correct in saying that Clemson needs to increase the team's OBP greatly!
I responded to his post because the phrase "coaching launch angle swings" doesn't make any sense.
If someone is going to bash coaches and players, they should at least be able to make sense when they are doing it.
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Orange Blooded [3367]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 2:39 PM
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But yet the Programs doing well today are coached by old school coaches . The way to win baseball games are exactly the same as they were 50 years ago.
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110%er [5558]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 25, 2022, 7:00 AM
[ in reply to Re: Offense only going to get worse. ] |
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Thanks for the explanation. I just took his post as as an "opinion" not necessarily bashing. I personally like Monte and think he's a good coach, but his team does strike out a lot.
Maybe we need to bring JL back (joking). Then we can all complain that we're not aggressive enough.
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Rock Defender [57]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 7:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: Offense only going to get worse. ] |
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The concept of “getting on plane” with the pitch is nothing new to baseball.
In 1971, Ted Williams discussed the idea in his book The Science of Hitting, positing, “The flight of the ball is down (see diagram), about 5°. A slight upswing… puts the bat flush in line with the path of the ball.”
In other words, the better we can match the descent angle of the pitch with our attack angle, the better chance we have to make flush contact and increase our smash factor.
swing plane
The Level Stroke = Attack Angle 0-3°, The Williams Stroke = Attack Angle 4-16°
As we can see in the graphic, the angle of the incoming pitch, namely the descent angle, dictates what attack angle creates the largest impact zone.
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Rock Defender [57]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 7:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: Offense only going to get worse. ] |
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The concept of “getting on plane” with the pitch is nothing new to baseball.
In 1971, Ted Williams discussed the idea in his book The Science of Hitting, positing, “The flight of the ball is down (see diagram), about 5°. A slight upswing… puts the bat flush in line with the path of the ball.”
In other words, the better we can match the descent angle of the pitch with our attack angle, the better chance we have to make flush contact and increase our smash factor.
swing plane
The Level Stroke = Attack Angle 0-3°, The Williams Stroke = Attack Angle 4-16°
As we can see in the graphic, the angle of the incoming pitch, namely the descent angle, dictates what attack angle creates the largest impact zone.
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Starter [385]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 25, 2022, 8:14 AM
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Ted possessed 20/10 vision which was a huge advantage as a hitter and as a pilot in the days before radar.
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CU Medallion [64517]
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While I respectfully disagree with some of your assertions..
Mar 23, 2022, 10:50 AM
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I do agree that the hitters approach at the plat has been an ongoing concern throughout ML's tenure.
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Orange Blooded [2287]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 11:17 AM
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Pitching seems to be an issue too.
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Orange Blooded [3947]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 11:30 AM
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My stance hasn’t changed. Make a super regional or fire him. Period. Simply making the tournament does not cut it for me. I don’t care where we are at this point because we have time ti fix it. But it needs to get fixed quick because we haven’t looked good at all as of late
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All-In [31133]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 11:39 AM
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It’s more analytical BS and they do discuss launch angles. Like in golf and gaining more distance with the driver the guys are trying to hit the HR. I understand a HR is great but sometimes we need to move a runner over. It is long fly balls or strikeout. Was really hoping this issue had been corrected in the off season but so far it’s a carbon copy unfortunately.
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All-In [31133]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 11:45 AM
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Giving up 10 runs in the top of the 1st is inexcusable. There are high school teams that could do better damage control than that. Looked sloppy, man not covering 2nd giving up an additional base on a bloop single. Fumbling the ball getting it out of the glove more than a few times. Just too many issues to overcome. Original poster is correct this problem will stay the same or get worse against better pitching. Opposition is very aware of our current batting issues and I’m sure feel fairly confident their better pitchers can handle most in our line up.
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Orange Blooded [2420]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 12:09 PM
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Any good coach will figure out a hitters weakness and pitch him to that weakness. Whatever he can’t hit is what he will see. It could be a long season.
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Freshman [3]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 12:44 PM
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1st time posting but here goes. Clemson baseball is off to good start over all. However, I would like to see a different set of players in the lineup for midweek games. There are a lot of very talented players on the bench. This would foster development not only of the individual players but most importantly the TEAM. Clemson nor any other college is/are minor league baseball club where certain players are mandated to get x number of at bats.
This would accomplish several things. 1st and foremost it will motivate starters to focus and play they're best. It will also give starters a break from the mental grind/ pressure. And guess what, it doesn't feel as hopeless if you lose a midweek game 16 to 5 without your regulars in the lineup. Guys like Lewis, Fairey, Wright, Brock and Troyer can get better and find success but more importantly DEVELOP . Coaches don't like to do this because then they are faced with tougher decisions about the lineup and playing time. Maybe original starter evaluations weren't correct ? Maybe some guys play better in games than they practice ? Being open minded is the key to being successful as a coach. Players aren't stupid. They know if they only bat or pitch when the team is up or down by 10+ runs what the coach thinks of their ability. Just my thoughts.
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Rock Defender [57]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 3:38 PM
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A 6 foot plus tall pitcher standing on a 3 foot mound and pitching overhand means the balls trajectory is coming downward towards the batter. Hitters are now coached to match the plane of the angle of the pitch. Get on plane and stay on plane as long as possible. That way if the hitter is early or late in reading the pitch they can still get a basehit, either pull if early or opposite field if late. So yes, most all hitters will have an uphill swing which gives you a better chance to make contact and hit the ball in the air. The percent of batted balls in the air that result in hits is much higher than the percent on the ground that result in hits. Launch angle is just a dumb phrase used to describe the effort to match the plane of the downward pitch which is the correct way to approach hitting. As others have posted, strikeouts are a direct result of better pitching at all levels of baseball. This includes improvement in velocity and spin rates. It has nothing to do with the swing trajectory.
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Orange Blooded [4579]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 6:07 PM
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Pitching mound was lowered to 15 inches in 1968.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 25, 2022, 11:42 AM
[ in reply to Re: Offense only going to get worse. ] |
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I was with you until your definition of launch angle.
Launch angle is the angle at which a batted ball leaves the bat.
Anything less than 4 degrees will most likely be a ground ball to the infield.
5-15 degrees when hit squarely is going to produce nice low line drives.
15-25 degrees hit squarely off of a college bat is typically going to produce home runs or maybe an occasional dep fly ball to CF in a really deep park.
A launch angle of greater than 25 is going to reduce the chance of success pretty quickly as the degrees go up unless the ball is hit well over 100mph off of the bat.
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Orange Blooded [3367]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 3:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: Offense only going to get worse. ] |
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Nah you got to put your best 8 out there and let them grove . Changing the lineups every week is a bad thing .
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Freshman [3]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 6:21 PM
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How do you know you have the best guys playing everyday ?
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Orange Blooded [3367]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 24, 2022, 11:00 AM
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That’s what practice is for
I mean you have a guy slumping , sure next man up.
Teams that win championship peak as a starting 8 , not teams that change the line up every week.
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Hall of Famer [24507]
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I love it when people make posts like this
Mar 23, 2022, 5:18 PM
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To b**ch about the baseball team..
Where were you when we started 15-0?...
We get back on a streak and you'll be ghost.....
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Legend [16900]
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Re: I love it when people make posts like this
Mar 23, 2022, 10:03 PM
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We started 14-0 against one of the worst schedules imaginable. Now we’re 15-5 and below the normal cut line for the tournament. The next 8 games are all against sub-100 RPI teams so we probably will win a bunch of games but it’ll barely move the needle on our RPI and then we have 17 games against top 20 teams over the final stretch. We needed to be 14-0 to even still have a prayer at the post season - it isn’t a good flex.
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110%er [6436]
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110%er [5465]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 6:06 PM
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I am not a baseball aficionado but I do know there is not a level playing field in recruiting. Until something is done about that I wouldn’t be too critical of ML.
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CU Guru [1650]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 8:02 PM
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Baseball has not been on an even playing field for some time because of Title IX. Clemson offers the max 11.7 scholarships for 27 players. Many programs like Vanderbilt have huge endowments and are offsetting these scholarship gaps through endowment and academic scholarships, so they are able to secure any third round projected HS draft pick or higher. We won’t be able to compete until we bridge that gap and shore up equal resources.
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All-TigerNet [12797]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 23, 2022, 9:29 PM
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And Indiana was/is horrible.
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All-TigerNet [10785]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 24, 2022, 10:49 AM
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Being involved with coaching an elite traveling team in IL during the mid and late 90s, my concerns are on base percentage, fielding percentage and unearned runs allowed. As far as launch angles there is a lot more to it.
Believe me, pitchers are aware and have been for years of all the hitters tricks. One slight change in the picher's release point and the launch angle means nothing. The bat will not come close to the ball. That's when guessing comes into play and I have always believed the pitcher has the advantage when the batter is guessing. Right now, Clemson is ranked 85th for strikeouts per 9 innings. There are combined 19 ACC and SEC teams with higher strikeouts per 9 innings putting the Tigers somewhere in the middle of those 2 conferences.
On base percentage - the concern for me with Clemson right now is that on base percentage is ranked 35th nationally and has been dropping. Maybe Monte should read Billy Beane's, Moneyball, ?? to get runners on base and re-visit the art of choke and poke after 2 strikes. Get runners on base and put the ball in play and see what happens. It puts pressure on the defense.
Another cause of the Tiger woes is their fielding percentage and the Tigers are ranked 71st. The Tigers have made 20 errors and can't continue to make errors and expect to win by giving up unearned runs.
These stats are through the first 20 games.
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Orange Blooded [2807]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 25, 2022, 7:38 AM
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Let’s set aside the swing plane debate. Regardless of what is the instruction, the Tiger batters are poor at execution. Thus they swing and miss at pitches they have no chance of putting in play. This issue is not one game, it’s about the past several seasons since the players have been 100% recruited and instructed by Lee and staff. A ball put in play has to be properly fielded and most often an additional throw and catch. At the college level there’s plenty of opportunity for that sequence to go wrong and allow a base runner or existing base runners to advance. Scoring runs is still the objective to win. Want to play competitive baseball and win more games then put more baseball’s in play and recruit/develop a strong pitching staff. For Clemson the pitcher’s appear to be promising but need more development. For hitting, well the amount strikeouts over the past several seasons tells the story. Long losing streaks have resulted. That likely will be the same this year because the hitters fall behind with 2 strikes quickly and only when they face poor pitching do they have a chance to recover. The ACC level of pitching will only amplify the problems they have making contact to put the ball in play and allow runners to reach homeplate.
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Associate AD [805]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 25, 2022, 10:22 AM
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This is exactly the type of cutting edge analysis that T Net can provide to all Clemson coaches. There’s really no need for an expensive and extensive coaching bench when T Net can provide this service gratis. Just turn T Net loose on our teams and the national championships will just start rolling in.
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Trainer [37]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 25, 2022, 8:27 PM
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Listen, I’m just getting on here again. I certainly was trying to bash players. And maybe my take on launch angle was or is not what I meant. I was talking about swing and miss baseball and being around the game and looking at what we played to what we will be playing just wanted to show the amount of K’s was too much.
I saw we were swept by Pitt today in a double header and had 13 k’s in game 1 and 18 in game 2. This is what I’m talking about. It is not a collegiate recipe for success. We lost two to a team that was predicted to be in the bottom of the ACC. What happens when we play FSU, Notre Dame, UVA, and other big teams. Our approach needs to change as does the coaching style. It doesn’t work here. No matter what they teach in the MLB, we aren’t in the MLB and by the looks of this team no one will be on this offense. So we need to change the style or manner in how we play. I wasn’t addressing pitching because I just was noticing strike outs as an offense and that was my opinion that I wrote. Just my opinion.
Too many people trying to put words in my text or keyboard coach.
So to sum it up we are now losing (being swept in a DH) to ACC teams that will be fringe teams for the ACC tournament.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 25, 2022, 8:42 PM
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I agree. You have to coach the talent you have. If they can't hit homers they have to learn to put the ball in play. Strikeouts are tolerable if you can hit doubles and homeruns. This has been going on for quite a while.
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Trainer [37]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 25, 2022, 9:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: Offense only going to get worse. ] |
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Sorry I certainly was not trying to bash players. I’m old. I’m not good at the text.
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Asst Coach [707]
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Re: Offense only going to get worse.
Mar 25, 2022, 11:02 PM
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Baseball is simple if make it. It also can be hard as much as you let it. Clemson bottom line doesn’t develop players. Also yes unadvantage of vandy but hell other good teams besides vandy. If we were consistent pitching and hitting together we would be fine. Talent and everything is there but it’s just gotta be the coaching.launch angles my ###. It’s gonna get worse. I wanted monte to get it turned around bc seems very like able but gah we shouldn’t be like this.
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