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110%er [5086]
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WR recruiting evaluation.
Sep 20, 2022, 6:56 PM
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Antonio Williams and Adam Randall seem like the real deal.
We have missed on most of the other receivers the last few years. Beau Collins is doing OK.
Hopefully this recruiting class brings in some good ones.
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Orange Blooded [4975]
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Re: WR recruiting evaluation.
Sep 20, 2022, 7:09 PM
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I don’t buy in on any hype these coach’s push out about any WR…9 times out of 10 they end up transferring or never doing anything productive. They force fed us Ladson Jr…drooled over Ajou…sold the farm over Ngata…flipped the bean Spector…just to name a few. I rely on my own eyes now.
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Starter [350]
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Re: WR recruiting evaluation.
Sep 20, 2022, 8:09 PM
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Mannn the way they hype Spector up ???..no way he should be starting over Antoni0
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CU Guru [1998]
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He's lost speed
Sep 21, 2022, 9:39 AM
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They've tried 2 reverses with him and he has not beaten the edge guy either time.
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Orange Blooded [3728]
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Here is a CAN’T miss evaluation technique that has…
Sep 21, 2022, 9:23 AM
[ in reply to Re: WR recruiting evaluation. ] |
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…a real Clemson example in Sammy Watkins.
I recall Sammy saying at one point, that he had NEVER been caught from behind once he caught a ball and started for the end zone.
When recruiting for a WR and reviewing his highlights, if he has NEVER been caught from behind, GET HIM COMMITTED…at all cost!
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Freshman [-79]
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CU Guru [1266]
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Re: WR recruiting evaluation.
Sep 20, 2022, 7:27 PM
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The "science" of recruiting young men when they are 16-17 and then hoping they turn out to be what you need to play championship caliber college football has to be dang-near impossible. Most of these kids are real standouts on the high-school level, but where they go from there is anyone's guess.
The ones that are pretty much can-t-miss recruits are getting offers from all over. NIL just makes that more competitive. If we end up with two top receivers that go the season without injury, that's a true blessing.
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Orange Blooded [3615]
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Re: WR recruiting evaluation.
Sep 20, 2022, 7:28 PM
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Looks like that dude from Massachusetts is a good one on the way.
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110%er [5086]
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Re: WR recruiting evaluation.
Sep 20, 2022, 7:35 PM
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Some good points. Just hope someone can step up and be a playmaker.
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Freshman [-79]
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While QB is improving,
Sep 21, 2022, 11:48 AM
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there were still at least 4 or 5 passes intended to be 50/50 balls (where they call that play and DJ doesn't really have to think about it) that DJ didn't even put it in a catchable range.
I just think we have very good to great talent at WR, and we'll become more explosive with who we have - if we can continue to improve at the position delivering the ball.
Let's be honest here, and this is not to knock DJ, but if we had a Trevor Lawrence delivering the ball on time and on target, we'd be connecting on a lot more explosive plays and all this gnashing of teeth would be nonexistent.
Hopefully DJ will continue to improve.
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110%er [8520]
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Re: WR recruiting evaluation.
Sep 20, 2022, 8:03 PM
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Last year was such a mess with injuries and COVID and the stats show that. If you add all the receivers, tight ends and running backs last year, there are about 25 on the list. Realizing that some played on special teams, there were only 4 that played in all 13 games. Trying to draw conclusions after just 3 games this year and really, even last year, is not a big enough sample.
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All-TigerNet [10831]
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Re: WR recruiting evaluation.
Sep 20, 2022, 8:20 PM
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Just ask yourself, if you were a NFL GM or HC and today was the draft, which one of the 2nd and 3rd year Tiger WRs would you draft?
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CU Guru [1779]
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I think there is more to it then just
Sep 20, 2022, 8:20 PM
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evaluation. I really believe this is one area that we miss Scott. Our WR play had gone down hill since he left.
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All-In [48152]
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Re: I think there is more to it then just
Sep 20, 2022, 8:50 PM
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Jeff had a knack for finding those diamonds but he was an even better developer of that talent. The kids saw that and then the Mike Williams and Tee Higgins picked us. We've offered top talent but had to settle for the lower 4*'s. I think everyone was hoping that spec would be the next Renfrow.
That said, I know we've had our share of drops and WR getting separation but last year and this year, there's been WR getting separation but weren't thrown to.
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MVP [533]
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too true****
Sep 20, 2022, 10:14 PM
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Freshman [-79]
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Our most productive passing/receiving year in the history
Sep 21, 2022, 12:04 PM
[ in reply to I think there is more to it then just ] |
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of Clemson football was 2020, with Tyler Grisham as coach.
Last year had a lot more to do with injuries and an accuracy issue at QB. Not on Grisham.
This year is better, and continuing to get better. DJ is more accurate and keeping WRs more engaged. We've had some drops, but as far as I can see that's mostly one guy at this point. So the jury is out on where we'll end up this season, but it's not truly accurate to say coaching is the difference.
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Commissioner [964]
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Re: WR recruiting evaluation.
Sep 20, 2022, 8:23 PM
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Most guys that get offered by Clemson have other big time offers, so it's not just a Clemson evaluation issue. Most of these players dominate at the HS level and are not tested until they step foot on a college campus, and it takes more than just ability to succeed. Ngata doesn't lack ability, he's had issues staying healthy. Same goes for Spector and Stellato that was highly regarded. We have had so much success with young players making big impacts early that we fail to realize that some need maybe a couple of years to develop. Cornell Powell was a great HS prospect, but he didn't have a huge impact until his senior year.
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Orange Blooded [4746]
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Re: WR recruiting evaluation.
Sep 20, 2022, 8:32 PM
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Recruiting is a crap shoot just like drafting is a crap shoot. All you can do I try to get as many good players as possible and hope they pan out. Of course coaching is also part of the equation but nobody is making the playoffs with a bunch of coached up scrub recruits.
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110%er [7173]
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3 things!
Sep 20, 2022, 8:39 PM
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Antonio Williams and Adam Randall seem like the real deal.
We have missed on most of the other receivers the last few years. Beau Collins is doing OK.
Hopefully this recruiting class brings in some good ones.
Physical phreaks have been brought in: Ladson(6'4 fast), Ngata(6'3 physical and kinda fast), Ajou Ajou(raw athlete physical and full of potential), EJ Williams(can't stay healthy - has all the tools), Justin Ross(see EJ Williams).
Many of these guys if healthy could have contributed: But, it's more than that i.m.o. Antonio Williams has a "alpha-mentality" about him. Some of the other great WRU WR's had that in varying degrees including Renfrow who people only want to call "crafty, smart, etc". But, Hunter Renfrow was 1st and foremost a competitor who wanted to beat your behind! He was "a football player 1st and WR 2nd".
Not sure about Sammy Watkins but Nuk, Mike Williams, Tee Higgins and Martavis Bryant played some basketball. Renfrow may have played other sports; but he was a QB in H.S. All of these dudes "like to compete, period"! If you don't have that mentality; then if the ball isn't thrown perfect you don't have that: "Play-making gene announcers speak of"! Which is basically the will to want to dominate or at least best your opponent. I don't care if it's checkers - show me the WR who cares if they win or not or who it bothers if they win or not. Those tend to be the ones that "go get it rather than wait for it"!
Long way of saying: you may be right on us missing on some; but it's a combination of things! Injuries being a big factor! "OL and QB struggle being the other"!
1. Maybe we missed.
2. Injuries a factor.
3. Inconsistent QB and OL play. You could even add a 4th if you like and say play calling.
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All-Conference [409]
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Re: WR recruiting evaluation.
Sep 20, 2022, 9:21 PM
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I am not a run for the hills type of guy and am hopeful ‘the next man up’ will make himself apparent to us all trough their play. I do see a very big difference in our WR room now vs. 3.4.5….years ago.
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Trainer [38]
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Re: WR recruiting evaluation.
Sep 20, 2022, 9:35 PM
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No one is talking about coaching and development. Lots of schools with receivers with lesser stars than our Tigers seem to develop very well (see Wake Forest). At some point the discussion has to turn to coaching, development and scheme.
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Orange Blooded [4954]
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It’s not a coincidence that…
Sep 20, 2022, 9:38 PM
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The WR who has spent the least amount of time working with our WR coach is the most technically sound.
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Orange Blooded [3740]
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Ouch! Sad but true
Sep 20, 2022, 10:43 PM
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Also, the two most talented WRs on the team are True Freshman that the WR coach had zero to do with them coming to Clemson. Both were practically life long Tigers fans and they were coming to Clemson as long as they got an offer even if I was the WR coach. Arguable the best one (Antonio) wouldn't have even gotten an offer from Grisham had not Andre Greene (who currently has no catches for the season) committed to UNC.
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110%er [5005]
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Re: Ouch! Sad but true
Sep 20, 2022, 10:48 PM
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It may come down to Dabo having to work with the WR.s and stepping away from the offensive coordinator roll for awhile
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Orange Blooded [2860]
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Re: WR recruiting evaluation.
Sep 20, 2022, 10:56 PM
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Oh. I don’t think we can throw Beau into a miss. He is having a good year and he is a true sophomore.
He, Adam and Antonio on the field at the same time will be a really good thing.
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Head Coach [798]
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Re: WR recruiting evaluation.
Sep 21, 2022, 9:01 AM
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One of the big difference between our current group and some of our stars of the pet is downfield blocking.
We opened with Auburn in the Georgia Dome one year and the receivers were just pushing DBs into the benches. One thing I was impressed with D Collins is that he was a willing blocker.
Screens worked Sammy Watkins partially because he was a freakish talent. Screens worked with A Scott because the perimeter blocking was outstanding.
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CU Guru [1998]
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More Allen and Briningstool on the field together***
Sep 21, 2022, 9:56 AM
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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The last really good WR class we took was 2017 with Tee and
Sep 21, 2022, 9:57 AM
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Amari. That was FIVE years ago.
2018 - Ross, Kendrick. Ross obviously had a great last 4 games as a FR in 2018. Injuries clearly derailed his career after that. Kendrick ended up being a solid corner, but never did anything at WR.
2019 - Ladson, Ngata, Spector. Looked good on paper, but Ladson didn't pan out, Spector has 27 catches in his entire career, and Ngata is always injured.
2020 - EJ Williams, Ajou Ajou. 37 catches in 3 years for EJ, 8 catches in 2 years for Ajou. Ouch. We knew Ajou was a project, but he lack of development from EJ has been a bit puzzling.
2021 - B Collins, D Collins, Stellato. Beaux has been solid and steady, but should be more of a 2nd or 3rd option rather than our most reliable WR. Decari has already transferred out, and Stellato hasn't gotten a chance to see the field yet.
2022 - A Williams, Randall. Fingers crossed, but these guys look really promising.
Now, there are a lot of potential reasons for why most of these guys didn't pan out. Recruiting misses, injuries, poor WR coaching, etc.
However there is one mistake that the staff absolutely made, that was 100% avoidable and 100% their fault. Almost all of these guys are 6'3" boundary receivers with average speed. Why? Our best WR corps always had a diversity of skill sets. How did the staff allow the WR room to get to a place where they were forced to try to play Justyn Ross in the slot? Why did they never recruit a WR that was actually dangerous running all of the screen passes they love to call?? I just don't understand that one.
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Orange Blooded [3740]
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Wow! WR recruiting from 2019-2021 was dismal in hindsight
Sep 21, 2022, 12:04 PM
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Looks like only Beaux will be the only serviceable one in those 3 years. You are dead on with us totally overdoing it with all basketball player WRs. It was the same song last recruiting cycle except just got lucky that the guy we wanted chose somewhere else to play. We completely need to revamp how we put together our WR board in the future. You'd have to be blind to watch Antonio play on the high school level here in your own state and not see that he was elite. I watched one Dutch Fork High School game last year and it was painfully obvious that he was stud.
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