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CU Medallion [55747]
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Will America make it to see 250? Serious question.
Jul 4, 2022, 8:27 AM
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The Blue states are having shittin' conniption fits about Dobbs. And in fairness the SCOTUS is not supposed to be hyper-partisan. The Red states hate Woke Socialism. The Northeast and the West Coast are completely different cultures from the rest of America, with completely different economies. There is no middle class in the Red States and the people are angry.
Will our country remain United?
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Hall of Famer [24051]
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Re: Will America make it to see 250? Serious question.
Jul 4, 2022, 8:32 AM
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Odd - the TV and Internet always tell me things are about to completely melt down, and then I go outside and talk to people and everything seems ok.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: Will America make it to see 250? Serious question.
Jul 4, 2022, 9:05 AM
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That's the thing. The digital reality does not match the AFK - which is "away from keyboard", for Miura's sake - out in the real world.
We do not hate each other AFK nearly as much as our various media agencies continuously assert. The problem any form of media - be it social, be it cable news, be it whatever - has is, they all need eyeballs, and they've systematically resorted to more and more visceral emotional issues to attract them. It used to be: "if it bleeds, it leads"...since then, the networks discovered something sells even more than blood: outrage. And hoo, boy, do they shovel it on thick, jam it right into our eyeballs each and every day.
The problem is, what we keep seeing is, this digital alternate reality does have bleedover into the real world. We saw it on 1/6. We saw it in those BLM riots, or the riots that break out every time a person of color gets shot by the cops, seemingly. That stuff is toxic and it does hurt us, collectively.
I am starting to get a sense prolonged exposure to extreme forms of media is having increasingly less effect over time. People are getting wiser and more inured to the rhetoric and our cultural immunity to it is growing. The disaffected cynical middle definitely seems to be growing, not shrinking - party membership is declining in both parties, with more and more people describing themselves as "independents" - and that's interesting...because even as the far left and far right seem to be getting more and more strident they're also losing membership. A growing number of us are tired of the incessant Woke noise on the left and the angry MAGA noise on the right. Increasingly, the attitude a lot of us have is the same as tired parents dealing with kids who will not get along: "I DON'T CARE WHO STARTED IT, I JUST WANT QUIET!"
People - well, more people, anyhow - are getting wiser to the populist Woke BS being pushed by CNN/MSNBC (though CNN, under new president Chris Licht, is at least trying to clean up its act after the Jeff Zucker sh!tshow...hopefully it will stick and they won't go back to chasing ratings) and the angry MAGA populist drek being shoveled by Fox...even as, strangely, the extremes of either party seem to get fringier every day.
If there's hope, it's there, IMHO. My hope is that the impact all this polarized media has on us is akin to what happened to us with COVID...savagely bad at first and for a long time after that...but then morphing into an endemic disease we can at least function with and not an actual pandemic as our collective immunity grows.
That's my hope for America. And this zero-sum two-party thing clearly isn't working anymore...generally speaking, when something isn't working for long enough, people do eventually try something else that does. I personally wonder if 2024 is the year the independents finally stand up and say: "you know, you guys are not getting it done, let's try something else."
That's my hope anyhow.
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CU Medallion [55747]
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“This isn’t working” is precisely what Trump and Bernie channeled.
Jul 4, 2022, 9:17 AM
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Disaffected middle right (Trump), disaffected middle left (Bernie).
Problem is, media aside, things really are not working.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: “This isn’t working” is precisely what Trump and Bernie channeled.
Jul 4, 2022, 9:36 AM
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Well, I don't wanna be Socialist. I don't wanna be Fascist either.
Those crap ideas are a hundred-plus years old now...it's been pretty conclusively established those ideas don't work.
My idea is something different: democracy is the one form of government we've seen that even halfway works (at times!)...how do we make it better? How do we put We The People at the helm again and yank it back from the professional politicians and worse, the populists?
I think Digital Democracy is the way to go. Big Board a problem, turn forums into actual policy discussions where We The People can talk about stuff at length, examine the issues in detail...and then vote on them. The idea would be that our elected representatives turn more into admins and moderators and vote-counters than unaccountable shills who say the right things in public and then in back rooms vote whichever way the dark money tells them to, which is what we've got going now.
You wanna a hand in guiding the Gubmint? Get involved. Talk about stuff. Bounce ideas around. That's the way a democracy is supposed to work.
So how do we fix America? Simple. Hand it back to us, We The People. We'll get there. We built this freaking country, we can durn sure improve it here in the 21st Century.
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All-In [27111]
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MSM hacks are all very "online."
Jul 4, 2022, 9:13 AM
[ in reply to Re: Will America make it to see 250? Serious question. ] |
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And never stopped to appreciate that Twitter is a very limited percentage of the population. And the political crazies on Twitter and even smaller percentage of that.
But they only report what they know.
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Heisman Winner [119696]
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Cool yur jets, APM
Jul 4, 2022, 8:49 AM
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Murica ain’t going nowhere ??
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All-In [40929]
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yes***
Jul 4, 2022, 9:19 AM
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All-TigerNet [11630]
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No middle class in red states?
Jul 4, 2022, 9:42 AM
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Da fug???
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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We only survive as a democratic republic.
Jul 4, 2022, 9:44 AM
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The Supreme Court knows what's up. They're trying. We didn't get here in a generation. Took many generations.
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All-TigerNet [13104]
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Re: Will America make it to see 250? Serious question.
Jul 4, 2022, 9:56 AM
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If SCOTUS was hyper-partisan; Obamacare wouldn’t exist.
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CU Medallion [55747]
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w/o the Medicaid piece, it really doesn’t.***
Jul 4, 2022, 3:29 PM
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All-TigerNet [11196]
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I give us a 50/50 shot.
Jul 4, 2022, 10:16 AM
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All the comments above about online/cable media are right on. Politics has turned into entertainment for many people and the harsher and more cruel the better on line. Talking with a neighbor, that shid don’t fly. We’ll have to practice neighbor politics to survive.
It takes two parties to make this work. 30 yrs ago when Rush got going, everything was the Dems fault…they’re all stupid, commie, ignorant fools out to destroy America. Right media has been saying that since the early 90s and ratcheted it up for the 2016 election cycle. Republicans have always had a better long game in modern politics and that shid worked last time around. Got lucky enough to seat 3 justices and now we have a court legislating by removing rights instead of confirming them. That’s a big problem in our history, it will create another reckoning and it will not be pretty.
The religious fervor that is now popular is frightening. To have congressmen openly denouncing separation of church and state, a populist governor encouraging public school teachers that the founding fathers ideas about separation of church/state are misunderstood and legislating what they can and can’t teach. That is phugged up and the result of a successful long game of marrying religion to political doctrine, gerrymandering, and now the ubiquitous challenge of all elections win or lose. This destroys the fabric we weaved for nearly a quarter century.
To survive we need to practice neighbor politics, turn off the twitterbiches and extreme medias because it is now mainstream not in theory, but in practice. Practicing extremism is like hitting a bomb with a hammer, how many whacks do you get before it explodes.
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Oculus Spirit [83115]
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Asking whether we make it 4 more years???
Jul 4, 2022, 10:18 AM
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No, that's not a serious question.
Aren't, you, me, and 90% of this board firmly in the middle class?
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CU Medallion [55747]
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“firmly”? Hail naw. Our dads were more firmly in the middle class working at OCF.***
Jul 4, 2022, 12:50 PM
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Oculus Spirit [83115]
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Middle class family of 4 in 2020 is
Jul 4, 2022, 12:55 PM
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considered between $60,000 and $180,000.
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CU Medallion [55747]
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1) in adjusted dollars I’m sure they made that much, 2) it’s not just about money.
Jul 4, 2022, 3:35 PM
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Benefits, pensions, matching programs, etc. like our fathers enjoyed are now only found in the richest employers, such as the West Coast tech companies.
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Oculus Spirit [83115]
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Sure. I get that. Just saying we have a huge middle
Jul 4, 2022, 4:33 PM
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class now.
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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Minority rule has a side-effect
Jul 4, 2022, 12:50 PM
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It wouldn't surprise me to see nullification become a new buzzword among the most lefty states.
Especially if Congress is flipped this fall and passes some extreme version of right to life legislation. A lot of it will also depend on SCOTUS. If they rule in favor of "state legislature theory" , overturn gay marriage, and essentially role back other unenumerated rights like one's ability to purchase contraception, then it won't surprise me to see states like CA revolt.
The tentacles of minority rule within every branch of government, and the legal frictions between states primarily on privacy rights and abortion will be too much of a burden for states, especially when you consider the gap in federal largesse between smaller red states and the larger blue states.
And even though it would be a dang shame, this is truly what the conservative movement seems to want. Sadly, they ain't thinking it through because a state like SC and other poor southern states would likely turn into the equivalent of Nicaragua or Liberia.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Minority rule has a side-effect
Jul 4, 2022, 5:21 PM
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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Your statement captures the issue in a nutshell
Jul 4, 2022, 7:36 PM
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“ the country shouldn’t be guided by a bunch of derelicts living on top of each other in a handful of major urban areas”
Those derelicts actually pay taxes too.
It’s this kind of win at all costs mentality that makes the pendulum swing back twice as hard. It isn’t sustainable.
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110%er [5675]
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Re: Your statement captures the issue in a nutshell
Jul 4, 2022, 8:19 PM
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They pay very little taxes, but that's irrelevant. The electoral college exists and will exist until the USA isn't.
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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Re: Your statement captures the issue in a nutshell
Jul 4, 2022, 8:49 PM
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It is relevant, because taxation and representation is what actually motivated the foundation of this country.
Eight of the 10 states most dependent on the federal government were Republican-voting, with the average red state receiving $1.35 per dollar spent.
CA has the highest balance of payments of any state and CT is the highest per capita. So your wrong again, as usual.
If you want to bite the hand that feeds you, be my guest.
https://rockinst.org/issue-areas/fiscal-analysis/balance-of-payments-portal/
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Rock Defender [53]
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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Re: Your statement captures the issue in a nutshell
Jul 4, 2022, 9:12 PM
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Over time, though, you will find that more populous states have traditionally had a higher federal balance of receipts vs expenditures compared to less populated states. It is a stunning imbalance to compare a state like Kentucky to a state like California, even on a per capita basis.
So when wealthier states are having their franchise subjugated by that of poorer states because of disproportionate representation in the Electoral College, it can be a bit off-putting to say the least.
You should expect some blowback.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Your statement captures the issue in a nutshell
Jul 4, 2022, 9:16 PM
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110%er [5675]
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Re: Your statement captures the issue in a nutshell
Jul 5, 2022, 7:58 AM
[ in reply to Re: Your statement captures the issue in a nutshell ] |
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So Pro you are for having votes proportional to how much money you have? Is that it?
If you have a lot of money, then you have paid a lot of taxes, and you should get more votes - great idea!
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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Re: Will America make it to see 250? Serious question.
Jul 4, 2022, 1:10 PM
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No doubt.
July 4th 1776 was just a "we quit" day. The Brits didn't make it official until October 19,1781, when Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown. So we got through that rough spot.
August 24th 1814, the Brits burned the White House, we got through that short war.
1861-1865 and beyond with Reconstruction was a bit of a rough spot.
1941-1945 was tough.
The Cold War was no fun especially Oct 1962.
1968 alone was a really sucky year with riots, the assassination of RFK and MLK, Tet, etc
Watergate was a challenge.
The last 6 years have been a time of hyper partisanship, no doubt.
However, this country has been through worse, much worse.
We'll get through this time of incivility I do believe.
Looking forward to a kickass 250th birthday party for the USA!
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110%er [5675]
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Re: Will America make it to see 250? Serious question.
Jul 4, 2022, 8:30 PM
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Of course we will make it to 250. Not sure about 300.
When this younger generation grows up, those that pay attention will realize how ignorant and stupid this whole wokeism cr@p is. They will see these people turn into adults, have miserable lives, kill themselves, be single their whole life, have kids that are drug addicts and criminals, go homeless, etc. Maybe that "awakening" will be what saves the USA or maybe it continues the division.
If you pay attention, the commonality in people's approach and mindset is very predictable. The democrats/liberals are the ones that virtue signal, think they elite, think they are smart and better than everyone else, but they are the first ones to go back on exactly what they preaching just the "other day." My wife and I have seen it and talked about it for decades.
My liberal sister-in-law killed her Dad by exposing him to COVID. We told her, but her emotional needs overrode the "science" I suppose. Whatever, but she is dealing with a chit load of self blame.
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Oculus Spirit [78884]
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I am not aware of any of this so yeah***
Jul 5, 2022, 7:33 AM
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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America: yes. The US government: hopefully not.
Jul 5, 2022, 8:14 AM
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It is well past time for the empire to fall.
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All-In [31891]
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That's not really a serious question....
Jul 5, 2022, 8:35 AM
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is it?
Who in their right mind would think America will fall in the next 4 yrs?
And...no middle class in red states? Is that also a serious statement?
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All-In [26968]
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There is a large gap between complaining on the internet
Jul 5, 2022, 11:52 AM
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Which is where 99% of people are, and actually getting off the sofa to form a better/separate government. Rest easy.
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