Tiger Board Logo

Donor's Den General Leaderboards TNET coins™ POTD Hall of Fame Map FAQ
GIVE AN AWARD
Use your TNET coins™ to grant this post a special award!

W
50
Big Brain
90
Love it!
100
Cheers
100
Helpful
100
Made Me Smile
100
Great Idea!
150
Mind Blown
150
Caring
200
Flammable
200
Hear ye, hear ye
200
Bravo
250
Nom Nom Nom
250
Take My Coins
500
Ooo, Shiny!
700
Treasured Post!
1000

YOUR BALANCE
It ain't rocket surgery...both Calhoun and Tillman used
storage This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic
Replies: 45
| visibility 1

It ain't rocket surgery...both Calhoun and Tillman used


Jun 9, 2020, 9:23 AM

their political platform to vehemently support and encourage "racist" ideology. Our fellow black colleagues, students, friends, family are not asking for history to be rewritten. Haven't heard anyone asking for everything named after a slave owner to be renamed. Renaming buildings that are currently named after racists, removing civil war monuments, getting rid of the confederate flag is not asking too much and a step in the right direction.

Just my $0.02 worth. Go Tigers!

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


This is the info I was looking for. I know TG Clemson


Jun 9, 2020, 9:41 AM

married Calhoun's daughter, had slaves, fought for the confederacy as like a 50 year old man... but I guess he wasn't as outspoken as Calhoun?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

He's depicted kind of like G Washington - he had slaves,


Jun 9, 2020, 12:40 PM

but was nice to them. Soooo...I'm not sure who gets a pass and who doesn't.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: He's depicted kind of like G Washington - he had slaves,


Jun 9, 2020, 6:34 PM

Maybe start with guys that give speeches on the floor of the US Senate, saying:

"We of the South have never recognized the right of the Negro to govern white men, and we never will. We have never believed him to be the equal of the white man, and we will not submit to his gratifying his lust on our wives and daughters without lynching him."

That's not even the worst thing Tillman has said or written. I think it's pretty clear we should not be glorifying or honoring this man with building names whatsoever. Same goes for Strom Thurmond. There's even less of an argument for that than Tillman (at least Tillman whipped the votes in the state legislature to get the charter passed, Thurmond only attended Clemson and donated a shitload to the university).

And no, the same logic doesn't apply to Jefferson, Washington, or King Charles II. Any of those didn't make white supremacy and lynching the core of their political beliefs.

2024 student level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Jefferson from Notes on the State of Virginia:


Jun 9, 2020, 9:01 PM

Although extolling the virtues of America’s native peoples in Query XI: "Aborigines," Jefferson argues in Query XIV: "Laws" that blacks were inferior to both whites and Indians, although he recognizes the possibility that the conditions of enslavement may be responsible for what he perceives as shortcomings.

https://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/notes-state-virginia





To say that Washington didn't believe in "white supremacy" while holding hundreds of slaves all the way to his death is just idiotic. I beg you to explain to me how holding slaves is not only talking about white supremacy but acting on it.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: He's depicted kind of like G Washington - he had slaves,


Jun 10, 2020, 11:42 AM [ in reply to Re: He's depicted kind of like G Washington - he had slaves, ]

You know, I've always heard numerous people say that Clemson can't change the name of Tillman Hall because of the Heritage act, and I always took it at face value. Well, I went and looked it up and here is the applicable section of the Heritage Act.


Section 1-10-30. The Infantry Battle Flag of the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia (Confederate Battle Flag) displayed on the Confederate Soldiers' Monument on the State House grounds, and any monument, marker, memorial, school, or street erected or named in honor of the Confederacy or the civil rights movement located on any municipal, county, or state property shall not be removed, changed, or renamed without the enactment of a joint resolution by a two-thirds vote of the membership of each house of the General Assembly approving same. This provision shall not apply to the maintenance and repair of the monument, marker, memorial, school, or street.


Ben Tillman was only 17 in 1864 (born August 11, 1847) and did not fight in the Civil War. As he was too young, he had nothing to do with the Confederacy. His racism didn't start until AFTER the war (and I don't think he led the type of "civil rights movement" the act is referring to.) Therefore, the naming of Tillman Hall on Clemson's campus is NOT protected under the heritage act. The way I read the heritage act, it could be changed without having to take it to the legislature.

Furthermore, the act only protects "Any monument, marker, memorial, school, or street erected" Since the Calhoun Honors College is not a physical building, just the name of a college program, it is also not subject to the Heritage act.

At this point, the right thing to do is to change them both.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"Stalwart universities—Harvard, Princeton, Yale—most certainly offer status. The Citadel offers character. "


Why would you remove civil war monuments?


Jun 9, 2020, 9:50 AM

Half of those are just markers where significant events took place. Are you guys going to get rid of civil war battlefields and museums as well? And the fact that you use the terminology "a step in the right direction" implies that you are planning on more. My only argument to changing all this stuff is, what does it accomplish? Will we still have the same tensions? Yes. Will we still have tragedy's like that of Floyd? Yes. Will that land that was granted to Clemson be affiliated with John C Calhoun? Yes. All of this reassignment fixes what exactly?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments?


Jun 9, 2020, 10:02 AM

Put yourself in a black student's shoes - Imagine walking around campus in the literal shadows of buildings named after men that would have sooner seen you killed than setting foot in that building.

It boils down to empathy and compassion. It's easy for white folks to be oblivious/dismissive of how that would feel, and we really cannot know how that would feel. But, I imagine that perspective would have a huge impact on your personal perspective on this issue.

This would in no way be an attempt to revise history - but to put it where any ugly part of an institution's, or country's for that matter, history should be: in history books and museums, and not canonized and prominently displayed around every corner.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments?


Jun 9, 2020, 10:05 AM

Many, if not most, confederate memorials & statues were put in place in the 60's as a response to the civil rights movement. That was the case w/ Tillman Hall & likely others.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments?


Jun 9, 2020, 10:47 AM

Correction, most statues and dedications were established in the 20’s by the United Daughters of the Confederacy. General Lee himself opposed monuments and thought it best to unite and publicly denounced southern separatism.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments?


Jun 9, 2020, 11:08 AM

The 1915 film, “The Birth of a Nation” by D.W. Griffith played a major role in rekindling the KKK movement throughout the country. If I’m remembering correctly, California and Indiana were states with the largest enrollments in the KKK. The mass immigration at the time from mostly Eastern European countries fueled the movement as the immigrants were deemed as cheap labor and threatened many jobs, similar to the more recent Hispanic migration.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments?


Jun 9, 2020, 12:14 PM [ in reply to Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments? ]

All statues, roads, interchanges, buildings, etc. named should be considered "graven images" by some folks who hover around here...

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments?


Jun 9, 2020, 5:02 PM [ in reply to Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments? ]

Tidewater said:

Correction, most statues and dedications were established in the 20’s by the United Daughters of the Confederacy. General Lee himself opposed monuments and thought it best to unite and publicly denounced southern separatism.


Tillman Hall was named so in 1946, most likely as a favor to his son by then president Poole. Several buildings were named during this time.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments?


Jun 9, 2020, 6:51 PM

It was also in response to SCar and other schools in the state allowing blacks into their institutions under the GI Bill.

1946 is still Jim Crow in SC, and almost certainly the naming was an underhanded message to black families/veterans to not go to Clemson. That was taught by the Clemson history department when I attended 2011-2016.

I invite anyone in this thread arguing about the true history of the school to talk to the two professors of Southern History at Clemson. Paul Anderson and Rod Andrew are the two professors that teach those courses, both are Southerners and educated in the South, and both will tell you that things like Tillman Hall are mostly about racism and white supremacy. Most of Clemson is.

Let's get one thing straight - Clemson was a school founding by whites for whites. It was for only white males that wanted an education in agriculture or engineering. Tillman made it abundantly clear in his speeches and writings in pushing for the new ag school that it was gonna be just for whites. We were the Seg School of the State, like it or not. We got lucky that Alabama and Arkansas tested the waters first (with Wallace blocking the entrance at Bama and Ike sending the Guard into Arkansas), or else we likely would have suffered a similar fate with Harvey Gantt.

Why not rename it to Harvey Gantt Hall? Gantt was a fantastic alumni for us, the first black mayor of Charlotte, and was all-around a much better person than Tillman.

2024 student level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments?


Jun 9, 2020, 6:57 PM [ in reply to Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments? ]

If Tillman Hall was named as a “Favor” to Tillman’s son in 1945, there’s no history here. Change the name. I struggled with this but given that, it’s a non-issue to me anymore. Get rid of the name and move on.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments?


Jun 9, 2020, 10:53 AM [ in reply to Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments? ]

Are we going to remove everything where people were simply imperfect men of their times. That doesn't give them a pass on what was done, but where does it stop. Can we begin to remove anything anytime someone is offended? The bottom line is that the USA is the least racist nation in the world. If you don't believe that then you haven't traveled the world.

Are we simply going to become a nameless, faceless country about everything.

MLK Jr. was a great man, who did great things, but he was as flawed as any of the men mentioned in this thread. With that said, it doesn't take away from what he was able to accomplish. We know from those who were the closest to him, that he had close ties to the communist party. We know that he had multiple affairs as well as some other flaws.

This is where we get into the issue of "categorizing" how wrong something is. Should we rename all streets that are MLK Blvd? No! Why? Because his flaws didn't remove his impact that he had on the culture of his day. John C. Calhoun, as flawed as he was, made it possible for there to be a University that now serves people from all backgrounds. Simply put, and I will use the Bible as a reference, God uses imperfect people to accomplish things for the greater good. We can't go back in time and hold men accountable from 200 years ago to the same standard that we now expect because we have learned better and know better.

We have to get to the point of a statement made by the greatest pitcher in baseball that ever lived; Satchel Page! When asked how he was able to endure all of the hate and racism thrown his way he said: "you have to love, like you have never been hurt."

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Can you show me where MLK was as flawed as any


Jun 9, 2020, 12:36 PM

of the men mentioned in this thread?


I am relatively confident that this is not the case, but I am willing to be educated. Enlighten me please.

2024 purple level memberringofhonor-greenr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Can you show me where MLK was as flawed as any


Jun 9, 2020, 12:47 PM

I think the "sin" MLK was indulging in was a "weakness of the flesh" with haut wimmins who gravitate to men of power... He had the misfortune of J. Edgar "too-too" Hoover having him in his sights...Hardly the same as a slave driver...

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

The FBI has tapes of MLK recorded watching a rape


Jun 9, 2020, 8:46 PM [ in reply to Can you show me where MLK was as flawed as any ]

in a hotel room cheering on the guy. That enough to tarnish his image? The tapes are scheduled for public release i think in 2027

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments?


Jun 9, 2020, 11:25 AM [ in reply to Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments? ]

Thats not really accurate

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

^^^^^This^^^^^***


Jun 9, 2020, 10:20 AM [ in reply to Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments? ]



2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Many white people are incapable of empathy or compassion


Jun 9, 2020, 10:25 AM [ in reply to Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments? ]

as they are so widely exhibiting right now.

badge-donor-15yr.jpg2012_pickem_champ.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Many white people are incapable of empathy or compassion


Jun 9, 2020, 11:48 AM

Many people are incapable of empathy or compassion as they are so widely exhibiting right now.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Many white people are incapable of empathy or compassion


Jun 9, 2020, 2:56 PM

And that is the problem.

Empathy. The ability to see things from someone else's perspective.

Of course all lives matter. All lives are not at a higher risk of being taken for the cardinal sin of failing to come to a complete stop at an intersection.

As you so acutely demonstrated with that response - It can be very difficult for people of privilege to see the world through the eyes of those that do not share in that privilege.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Umm the last time I checked


Jun 9, 2020, 6:48 PM [ in reply to Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments? ]

The Calhoun Mansion was smack dab on the center of the campus. We gonna renam that too or maybe tear it down? Calhoun’s name will still be around. I’m less concerned about the honors college name call it the “Clemson Honors College” for all I care (frankly it just doesn’t mean much to me) but you can’t change history - you can only learn from it.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgmilitary_donation.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

You mean like at UVA? Or UNC? UofSC? Maryland?***


Jun 9, 2020, 9:06 PM [ in reply to Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments? ]



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments?


Jun 9, 2020, 6:12 PM [ in reply to Why would you remove civil war monuments? ]

Bringing up Jefferson/Washington/etc. is the classic example of slippery slope fallacy. Let's dispense with that given they're completely different situations entirely.

Tillman and Strom Thurmond were both horrible human beings. We both have multiple things named after them. Tillman Hall was never actually "Tillman Hall" from the get-go. It was "Old Main" like the vast majority of other campuses. We renamed it after Tillman during Jim Crow to discourage black families from trying to enroll their kids at Clemson.

Tillman quotes:

"We deny, without regard to color, that 'all men are created equal'; it is not true now, and was not true when Jefferson wrote it."

"We of the South have never recognized the right of the Negro to govern white men, and we never will. We have never believed him to be the equal of the white man, and we will not submit to his gratifying his lust on our wives and daughters without lynching him."

I don't want my alma mater associated with this awful, awful man. I'm proudly a history graduate from Clemson in 2016. I took 3 history of the south courses taught by two southerners. The history of the south professors are Paul Anderson and Rod Andrew. Both are southerners and were educated in the South, and both said that "Tillman Hall" was only named such because of Jim Crow. So the University itself is teaching that the name change from "Old Main" to "Tillman Hall" had racist origins. Back then, the university used backwards logic about Tillman's role in founding the university to justify it. But we all know what South Carolina was from the 1870s-1960s. It's always been a hub of white supremacy and racism. Strom Thurmond left the Democrat party because LBJ signed the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts for f***s sake!

2024 student level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Why would you remove civil war monuments?


Jun 9, 2020, 6:39 PM [ in reply to Why would you remove civil war monuments? ]

Do what the Germans did. I studied abroad at the University of Bamberg, which was only 45 minutes north of Nuremberg.

The Germans have their battlefields and museums, and most importantly, they have the Document Center at the former Nazi Party Grounds in Nuremberg. There, anyone can learn about Germany's checkered history with the Third Reich as well as a lot of Holocaust-related material. They still have places like Dachau opened as museums on top of that.

What Germany doesn't have at their universities is a "Heinrich Himmler Hall" or a "Reynhard Heydrich School of Public Safety". And if you say "Godwin's Law" to me, remember that Hitler borrowed most of his racial policy from the American South. He copied North Carolina's eugenics program that wasn't officially repealed until the 1980s!

One thing that the Clemson history department harped on throughout most of their courses were these two concepts:

Bad people occasionally do good things. See Hitler and the Autobahn and Calhoun/Tillman with Clemson.

Good people occasionally do bad things. See LBJ with Vietnam and Bush with Iraq.

We should not be naming things for the former.

2024 student level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

So once they get to wanting to change the name of the university


Jun 9, 2020, 11:10 AM

Because they will figure out that Thomas Green Clemson was offensive; what name will they change it to???

SC A&M???

Or can it only be named after an African-American to be completely fair to everyone who has ever been involved with the University?

2024 orange level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Calhoun and Tillman are just the beginning.


Jun 9, 2020, 12:43 PM

Next it will be the Calhoun mansion and TG Clemson. maybe do some research on the school before you choose to attend? specially in Nuks case.. he grew up 20 minutes away.

military_donation.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"I love this place, I've got a spot already picked out where I want 'em to put me when I die - up there on that ole hill near the stadium. I want to be there so I can hear all them people cheering my Tigers on Saturdays; then I won't have to go Heaven; I'll already be there."- Frank Howard


Re: Calhoun and Tillman are just the beginning.


Jun 9, 2020, 12:51 PM

You can almost hear the backhoe closing in on TGC...and a cop hanging around the mansion may not be a bad idea...

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Do me a favor


Jun 9, 2020, 2:59 PM



2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Sigh...as a southern white male a confederate statue hasn't


Jun 9, 2020, 3:54 PM

hurt me or anyone in my family. BUT, there's no way I can see things from an African American's perspective or put myself in their shoes. However, I can empathize with how it must feel seeing confederate monuments, buildings named after racists, the confederate flag, etc. on prominent display. Imagine having to explain to your black children who Ben Tillman was..."He was once Governor of SC and thought that black people were not equal to white people. He also promoted lynching people like us if we got too uppity".

Would you take your little meme and show it to DW4 or Nuk or the current CUFB team, defend the monuments to them? It's time to look forward.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


There is plenty people can get offended by if they look


Jun 9, 2020, 4:23 PM

hard enough.

The message being sent right now is this:

If you're white, and a black person tells you they don't like a statue/symbol/phrase, and want it eliminated, then you must agree with them while also agreeing to their demands. If you don't, you are racist.

Maybe that isn't the intended message, but that's what myself and many people are hearing. That's not fair, because it leaves no room for genuine, open dialogue. I believe that progress needs to be made when it comes to racism, but I don't appreciate being told that I have to agree with anything a black protest/petition states or else I'm racist.

As much as we wish it weren't, racism is a significant part of our country's past. We can't simply remove every mention of it as if it didn't happen. If someone today is offended by something that happened generations ago, that's their issue, not mine.

Nuk and Deshaun didn't seem to mind the Tillman or Calhoun name when they were students at Clemson, receiving a free education along with top-level football coaching, academic tutoring, and basically anything else they needed to help them reach their dream of playing in the NFL. The fact that they chose to mention it now makes them seem ungrateful. For people who claim to love Clemson, it's a shame that they couldn't express their concerns in a more respectful way.

Message was edited by: Judge Keller®


2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Totally disagree...that is the message YOU elect to receive


Jun 9, 2020, 5:55 PM

talk to any of your black friends or colleagues and listen to what they have to say. Things they go through just because of the color of their skin, worrying if their kids are going to be ok just walking to the store or jogging down the road. I’ve never really had to worry about the things that black parents worry about.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


I am engaging in plenty of dialogue, thank you.


Jun 9, 2020, 8:57 PM

I want to learn. I want to be part of the solution, not the problem.

Sadly, I’m mostly hearing anger. That’s okay, because we should all be angry about senseless killings like Floyd’s. But real progress isn’t going to occur if black people accuse every white person of being racist and making demands as to how improvements will be made.

Dialogue is a two way street. I’m listening, a lot. I’m also allowed to have opinions in return. That doesn’t make me racist or lacking in empathy.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Do me a favor


Jun 9, 2020, 6:21 PM [ in reply to Do me a favor ]

My ancestor that fought for the 24th Michigan Volunteer Regiment in the Iron Brigade would have pointed to his leg that got blown off at Gettysburg.

Let's get one thing straight about Confederate Statues. The vast majority were erected by the Daughters of the Confederacy during the 1920s. This was when the second iteration of the KKK was at its height, Jim Crow laws were at their height, and lynchings were very common. Seriously, go check. Most of the CSA monuments in the Carolinas were put up between 1900 and 1929, including two notable ones with Silent Sam in Chapel Hill (put up in 1913, a full 50 years after the War) and the CSA monument in Winston-Salem (which didn't even support secession that much and was put up in 1905).

It was part of rehabbing the CSA's defeats with the whole "Lost Cause" mythos. These statues are merely nothing more than participation trophies or Dabo's "2016 CFP Final Runner-Up" banners at the practice facility.

Instead of tearing them down, I say we should put up a statue of US Grant or WT Sherman next to every CSA monument or memorial. It's my heritage and it's not hate. My ancestors fought for the Union army just as bravely and valiantly as those supposed Confederates did, where's their memorial? All they have is a single statue at Gettysburg, not thousands scattered throughout the Midwest and Northeast.

2024 student level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Im good with that, i love civil war history. Put them up.


Jun 10, 2020, 11:35 AM

Great idea. I don't think you'll find many who would be against memorializing Union Military leaders from the civil war in the south on battlegrounds that they were victorious. Its history. I think you're confused, iTs not celebrating or worship of past confederate leaders. Its just acknowledgment. See i think Northerners believe that southerners somehow are quietly longing for the days of the confederacy. Absolutely not. But we here understand through our family lineage we are associated with the region we live in and learning and not shunning the past simply enriches our southern culture.

Removing these historical names and places would be a travesty and the problems of race would not be remedied by doing that. WE still would have the same issues b/c of human nature. Stop trying to "fix" everything and simply agree to disagree. Because the fix is person to person, unbiased, communication with no agenda.

I feel all this craziness is about affecting the November election where the media and the democratic party so desperately wants to sew chaos and discord within the public in order to somehow relate it to the current leadership. And the moment we realize that we're being worked to accommodate Political agenda's is the moment the People regain the power again and not the dishonestly of power hungry politicians.

Stop being worked or maybe stop trying to work up the chaos yourself.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: It ain't rocket surgery...both Calhoun and Tillman used


Jun 9, 2020, 4:28 PM

Class of '72 here, and a "Yankee" to boot, (as my Southern classmates use to call me). I came to Clemson knowing nothing of the school's history. I assumed it was named "Clemson" because of the town. (I honestly didn't care. I liked the school's engineering program.) I remember learning about the Calhoun connection and I thought how great it was on the very land that slaves were kept, Black men and women were getting a great education. I thought that must have fried old John C's bones.
The best thing Clemson can do for all these young men and women is create great leaders who will bury racism from society today and in the future. I know in today's world we are told we need to erase the past. I don't know I'm against that since my family doesn't get touched by it. I do worry about re-writing history.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Well you're going to have to rename Clemson and South


Jun 9, 2020, 4:54 PM

Carolina also. You o.k. with that? If you're not, then you're a hypocrite. If you are, then you're a fool.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Who’s asking to rename Clemson? Haven’t seen that


Jun 9, 2020, 5:46 PM

mentioned anywhere...as far as USuCk goes tear it down/rename it don’t give a $hit really. So if I believe we should rename Tillman and Calhoun Honors College but not the University I’m a hypocrite. So if you vehemently support keeping Tillman’s name what does that make you?

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: Who’s asking to rename Clemson? Haven’t seen that


Jun 9, 2020, 6:29 PM

Makes him a racist.

2024 student level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Well you're going to have to rename Clemson and South


Jun 9, 2020, 6:27 PM [ in reply to Well you're going to have to rename Clemson and South ]

King Charles II (the namesake of both Carolinas) never said anything like:

"We of the South have never recognized the right of the Negro to govern white men, and we never will. We have never believed him to be the equal of the white man, and we will not submit to his gratifying his lust on our wives and daughters without lynching him."

Ben Tillman said that on the floor of the Senate!

So yeah, big difference between renaming the states/towns/university as a whole and renaming one building that wasn't even named for Tillman in the first place. It was originally "Old Main" and the state/board of trustees renamed it after Tillman during Jim Crow to discourage black families from trying to enroll their kids here. Nice try, though.

Give this link a look next time you post about renaming the states or things after Washington/Jefferson/etc:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope


2024 student level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Again...Confused about why Washington, Jefferson, Grant, and


Jun 9, 2020, 8:51 PM

Jackson are not a part of this anger? Any answers for that?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_United_States_who_owned_slaves


flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

By setting this precedent of changing names, they will be.


Jun 10, 2020, 11:51 AM

There were prophets in the Bible that have slaves and maidservants, etc. for goodness sakes. Was king David a historical tyrant?

What we have a problem with in the modern era is putting ourselves in a different time and place. Slavery, unfortunately in the 1700's was normal. We can't fathom that today, nor should we ever want to, but it was what it was. We want to re-write the wrongs of social life of the past by making history adapt to us today. Which is irrational, extreme leftist, lunacy. Or, its a tool that is and will be used to separate us and make us fight each other.

Leftist ideology promotes nihilism and the idea of "i know whats best for you even if you don't like it." It has been taught in the Universities for the last 50 years and the fact that it was never challenged is finally showing its fangs. Rational thought is now portrayed with an all inclusive brush of white privilege. Its something you can't prove nor disprove which is why its a useful tool to divide. No one wants racism in our world. But if you can make the public believe they're unconsciously racist then you have the control bc they vehemently detest the thought that they would ever be that way..so they give away the keys to rationality. And thats what you're seeing with renaming historical relics, defunding law enforcement, and allowing social chaos in our communities. ITs really sad that our college educated brethren are really falling down this rabbit hole.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

***This******


Jun 10, 2020, 1:04 PM



badge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Replies: 45
| visibility 1
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic