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All-In [43992]
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When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 1:59 PM
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to develop quarterbacks?
I ask this in all sincerity, coming from a place of liking him a lot. He's a good guy, and was tough as nails as our QB.
He has spent well over a decade at Clemson, either as a player, graduate assistant, or assistant coach. He's been with us for the last 8 years, and we've obviously had a great deal of success since then.
However, I think it's worth questioning Streeter's ability to develop QBs. A few questions:
1. Did Deshaun Watson improve under Streeter's tutelage?
While at Clemson, Deshaun's completion percentage, TD-to-INT ratio, and QB rating all declined from his first year to his last year.
These key metrics suggest that Deshaun did not improve, at least when looking at pure QB measurables.
2. Did Trevor Lawrence improve under Streeter's tutelage?
While at Clemson, Trevor saw his completion percentage increase and his QB rating increase from his first to his last year with us. His TD-to-INT ratio decreased.
Overall, I'd say Trevor improved.
3. Has DJ Uiagalelei improved under Streeter's tutelage?
While at Clemson, DJ's completion percentage, TD-to-INT ratio, and QB rating have all decreased from his freshman year to last year.
Overall, I'd say DJ has regressed.
At this point, two of our three main starting QBs, who have been directly coached by Streeter for extended periods of time while here, seemed to regress while at Clemson. That's not good, especially since we are talking about all three of them being all-world, five star talents considered locks for the NFL when they arrived on campus.
In terms of the other QBs Streeter has coached here, it's harder to evaluate since they haven't played as much. I don't think Kelly Bryant improved much, especially not as a passer. The backups are harder to evaluate, since they haven't played many snaps.
I know this is when many of you will chime in and say "Trust Dabo" and "Streeter knows what he's doing." That's nice, but at the end of the day, we must develop our QBs - not just because we want to win big, but also because we don't want to earn a reputation as a program that doesn't improve QBs while they are at Clemson.
Obviously, Streeter is our offensive coordinator - not just our QB coach. But he still plays a really big role in our QBs and how they develop, and at this point I have concerns.
I also have concerns about Streeter's ability to be the kind of offensive coordinator I believe we need, but that's another post for another day.
Here's to DJ having a great year, and this post aging very poorly. Go Tigers!
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All-TigerNet [10924]
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Prolly around 11pm on 9/5. Assuming the CU offense has not
Aug 29, 2022, 2:01 PM
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racked up 600 plus total yards by then.
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Orange Blooded [4182]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 2:02 PM
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When he starts coaching basketball.
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All-In [43992]
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Sounds about right.
Aug 29, 2022, 2:07 PM
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Football coaches = benefit of the doubt regardless.
Basketball coaches = benefit of the doubt, rarely.
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All-TigerNet [11428]
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Re: Sounds about right.
Aug 29, 2022, 2:23 PM
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Looking at Coach Brownell's accomplishments in 12 years at Clemson, there certainly is a whole lot of doubt...
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: Sounds about right.
Aug 29, 2022, 3:15 PM
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User Logo
nctigs
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Re: Sounds about right. [3]
Aug 29, 2022, 2:23 PM
Reply
Looking at Coach Brownell's accomplishments in 12 years at Clemson, there certainly is a whole lot of doubt...
THIS F'ING TROLL EVEN DOGS COACH BROWNELL ON A FOOTBALL THREAD. WHY IS THIS GUY ALLOWED TO POST ON A CLEMSON WEBSITE.
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Re: Sounds about right.
Aug 30, 2022, 12:42 PM
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and yet you're OK with JK's trolling posts....hmmmm
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Freshman [-79]
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Nothing he said is incorrect.
Aug 30, 2022, 2:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: Sounds about right. ] |
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Yet you attack him.
And exactly why don't you show thus same fervor towards Mrs Brownell's trolling? Makes no sense at all.
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Freshman [-79]
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Basketball coaches = factual evidence
Aug 29, 2022, 2:46 PM
[ in reply to Sounds about right. ] |
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Football coaches = pathetic trolling by you.
Big difference.
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Legend [16226]
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Sorry but Brad is 8 years past the 'benefit of the doubt'
Aug 29, 2022, 4:14 PM
[ in reply to Sounds about right. ] |
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window. Considering the lack of any trace of sustained success in that program during his tenure only blind loyalty to the HC is now at play.
Were football to suffer through a slough of 7-6 seasons you can best be assured that there would be significant doubt about and no shortage of those sharing it.
As it is, our worst football season in 10 years is better than our best basketball season over that same stretch.
Next.
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All-In [43992]
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Basketball board is that way. —>***
Aug 29, 2022, 4:55 PM
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Legend [16226]
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That's weird I was responding to your basketball post.
Aug 29, 2022, 5:08 PM
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Oh well.
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All-In [43992]
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You should take it up with the poster GatorBowl.
Aug 29, 2022, 5:42 PM
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He is the one who injected a lame basketball post in a football thread.
My response was succinct and did not continue the basketball topic. You, on the other hand, posted a long basketball diatribe because you just couldn’t help yourself.
Do you have any thoughts about Streeter as a QB developer?
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Legend [16226]
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Streeter as QB developer? Sure.
Aug 29, 2022, 6:01 PM
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Cole Stoudt's best game ever in Streeter's first effort out of the gate.
DW4 two natty appearances with 1 title. Now highest paid NFL player ever.
KB led us to a CFP appearance despite some innate limitations in the passing game. He digressed after transferring.
TL16 - three CFPs, two natty appearances, with 1 title. #1 draft pick in NFL to wrap his Streeter tutelage.
DJ? Not a good sophomore season. But considering Streeter's history-making hits at QB production prior, and those two national championships along the way, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt up to this point.
Looking forward to his first full season as OC to boot.
Go Tigers.
#FreeTugaloo #DownWithTrolls
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Orange Blooded [3131]
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Re: Streeter as QB developer? Sure.
Aug 29, 2022, 6:44 PM
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Thank you wildblulou, as soon as I saw the question all I could think of was Cole Stoudt blowing the doors off an unsuspecting Oklahoma. While that wasn't one of our biggest games, it was one of the most fun to watch of any game I've ever attended. I'm looking forward to seeing the results of Streeter and Stoudt coaching together.
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CU Guru [1868]
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CU Guru [1868]
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All-In [43992]
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It shows a lack of perspective, maturity, or both
Aug 30, 2022, 12:50 PM
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for supposed Clemson fans to take shots at Clemson basketball in a football thread.
I assume that these people are somehow hurt by a less-than-glowing football post, so in second grade fashion, they decide to insult basketball. In their world, that makes everything right again.
It's pretty screwed up, since attacking basketball doesn't hurt my feelings and only makes them look childish.
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Legend [16226]
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^^^ Compares football and basketball in 'football' post plus
Aug 30, 2022, 12:59 PM
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referencing Clemson fans as 'turds' then complains about lack of perspective and maturity of others.
Classic.
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Oh Deer Lowered.....LOLOLOLOL
Aug 30, 2022, 1:00 PM
[ in reply to It shows a lack of perspective, maturity, or both ] |
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"It's pretty screwed up, since attacking basketball doesn't hurt my feelings and only makes them look childish."
You feeling like people are attacking your precious basketball coach is the reason you make so many backhanded comments/threads about anything/everything related to Clemson Football.
Get off of your high horse...
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CU Guru [1868]
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Also
Aug 30, 2022, 9:12 AM
[ in reply to Basketball board is that way. —>*** ] |
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every time you post, there is a tag on the bottom with Brownell's name. You know, the one that says Clemson fans are turds? So, basically, you can never say, "hey basketball board is that way. I'm here to talk about football."
My question is which will endure for longer: Clemson's incredible run of success in football? Or its prolonged mediocrity in basketball? Sadly, it's probably the latter, because you can't be a top 3 or 4 program forever.
Again, I get to talk about basketball on this thread, because I'm one of the turd fans who are part of the problem.
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All-In [43992]
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It would seem that the incredible run of success ended
Aug 30, 2022, 12:52 PM
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last year when we failed to make the playoffs, failed to win our conference, and even failed to win our division.
Picked to be a lock for the CFP, and didn't even win our division in a weak ACC!
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CU Guru [1868]
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So then you're going with sustained bradsketball mediocrity
Aug 30, 2022, 1:44 PM
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You heard it here first, folks. Judge says that poor performance by Clemson basketball will outlast the success of the football program. Judge, the basketball board is that way -> Jeesh, what are you some kinda turd fan? Calling Brad! Brad! Come look at this!
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CU Guru [1868]
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Sorry I had to do it***
Aug 30, 2022, 1:46 PM
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All-In [40100]
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One of your most idiotic posts ever to be frank
Aug 29, 2022, 6:02 PM
[ in reply to Sounds about right. ] |
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12 years and no benefit of the doubt? Dude you’re losing it.
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All-In [43992]
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Chiming in late and contributing nothing to the topic at hand
Aug 29, 2022, 6:09 PM
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has become your calling card.
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All-In [40100]
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How about a little self reflection. With any ounce of intelligence
Aug 29, 2022, 6:25 PM
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Can you argue that Brad has not been given the benefit of the doubt. Your calling card? Emotion and blinders.
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All-In [43992]
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Brad has certainly gotten plenty of support from our AD.
Aug 30, 2022, 12:53 PM
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He hasn't gotten much at all from our fans.
Huge difference.
As I said earlier, many of our fans questioned Brad from day one. Not much benefit of the doubt there.
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110%er [5512]
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Re: Brad has certainly gotten plenty of support from our AD.
Aug 30, 2022, 1:59 PM
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...and look how right they were
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Oculus Spirit [79990]
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Idk but his 1 game with Cole stoudt is legendary.
Aug 29, 2022, 2:04 PM
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He was a completely different player than we had witnessed all season under the previous qb coach.
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All-In [43992]
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Yes, we were all very excited about Streeter after that game
Aug 29, 2022, 2:07 PM
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Cole played great.
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Freshman [-79]
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We played in 4 nattys and won two since then.
Aug 29, 2022, 2:49 PM
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We're the second winningest program in the country with more wins, more ranked wins, more conference championships, more playoffs, more national championships games, and more national championships than EVERY other team not named Alabama.
Fail harder.
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110%er [5013]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 2:11 PM
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And in all sincerity, it would seem that you've already started.
If you remove DJ's results from the group you've presented, the results aren't so bad. A lot of DJ's stats were due to:
* Getting spooked early in the year by UGA.
* Not having a very good OL.
* Not having enough talent at WR and slot positions.
* No play call/use of the TEs (needed for supposed blocking).
* He let himself get out-of-shape weight-wise.
* His weight and skittishness caused him to be very one-dimensional with his decision-making.
None of that was Streeter's fault. It was more the results of OL recruiting and development.
In short, DJ was a mess physically and psychologically. If he plays better this year, you should attribute a lot of it to Streeter's coaching and the rest to DJ's determination to right the ship.
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All-In [43992]
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It sounds like you are blaming DJ’s struggles on a combination of
Aug 29, 2022, 3:48 PM
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poor recruiting/player development at other positions, questionable play calling, and DJ himself, is that correct?
If so, you don’t think Streeter was in any way responsible for DJ’s performance last year, despite being the QB coach. Is that also correct?
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110%er [5013]
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Re: It sounds like you are blaming DJ’s struggles on a combination of
Aug 29, 2022, 4:52 PM
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You're correct, I am blaming it on what you stated. Streeter can only do so much. Maybe he could have done a better job.... I don't know. I expect he would tell you that he could have..... but:
Streeter didn't recruit, develop or coach the O'line.
Streeter didn't cause the WRs to get hurt and he didn't cause them to drop balls or fail to get separation. He also wasn't the trainer responsible for getting them healthy again.
Streeter didn't coach the TEs.
Streeter wasn't the OC and wasn't responsible for salvaging an offense. He was like a boxing trainer trying to keep his fighter in the game when he keeps getting staggered with a flurry of punches every round.
All-in-all, the overall coaching was prety good DURING the season and because of that, we salvaged the season to a fair extent.
The root of the problem was the O-line - and from that sprouted many other second order issues. That is what got into DJ's head and caused his poor reads and decision-making. I think his conditioning was a close second root cause because he couldn't get free of a strong rush.
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All-In [43992]
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Since Elliott and Dabo were in charge of all of those things
Aug 30, 2022, 12:55 PM
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do you hold them responsible?
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110%er [5013]
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Re: Since Elliott and Dabo were in charge of all of those things
Aug 31, 2022, 7:11 AM
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I do hold Elliott somewhat responsible - but only for play-calling.
I think Dabo took steps to improve the offense:
* Elliott is gone - maybe his own decision, but perhaps encouraged by Dabo.
* Pearman and Elliott have been replaced as TE coaches by Richardson, who also has a say in play design.
* Thomas Austin has replaced Robbie Caldwell.
Statements from players suggest that there is a fresh sense of confidence and positive direction throughout the entire offense. I'll be delighted to see it unfold.
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Legend [17754]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 2:14 PM
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Coaches can only do so much
1) DW was a high risk / reward player; liked to force passes and sometimes the game was too easy for him resulting in some questionable decision making
2) TL was a high /risk reward player; same as DW… take the good and the bad. Trevor had the beginning sophomore slump but after that my selective memory has him being just fine 2nd half sophomore season and beyond
3) DJ not DW or TL. I’m giving Streeter a pass. DJ’s mechanics were such that I can’t imagine he wasn’t getting footwork / mechanic drills all the time from the staff. And mentally with his parent’s divorce, etc things weren’t good.
So while I often agree with your commentary - in this case we have a long way to go regarding the evaluation of Streeter’s coaching.
On the other end of the spectrum, one could look at the Cole Stoudt bowl game sample of one - where Cole was named MVP - and declare Streeter a genius.
https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/clemson/sapakoff-brandon-streeter-clemsons-underrated-quarterback-whisperer/article_36a84b6e-bd0f-11e9-97ef-3b136656928a.html
#RIPPATCHES
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Heisman Winner [139873]
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Regarding “another post for another day”…
Aug 29, 2022, 2:23 PM
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Can you go ahead and make that post today and get it over with?
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All-TigerNet [10924]
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This could lead to dual ‘posts of the day’ by the same
Aug 29, 2022, 2:28 PM
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originator. My head might explode.
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110%er [6513]
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Re: Regarding “another post for another day”…
Aug 29, 2022, 3:41 PM
[ in reply to Regarding “another post for another day”… ] |
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I gave you a thumbs up but having second thoughts. I want him to just go away.
Can we trade Tug for JudgeK in banned dimension?
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110%er [6321]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 2:26 PM
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I have questioned this also. Deshaun exploded his freshman year when nobody had film on him. Naturally DCs got a better understanding of his strengths and weaknesses as they watched more film. But, he lost Mike Williams early his sophomore year. He was really trying to force things his junior year and ended up throwing bad INTs. I wouldn't blame Streeter for those things though. His mechanics and pocket awareness seemed to improve.
Similar issue with Trevor. Defensive coordinators can scheme better with the more film that they have. Trevor started off his sophomore year poorly. DC's had a ton of film on him by that point. Plus, we started three 6'4 WRs (Higgins, Ross, and Overton) at the start of the season. DJ struggled with three big bodied WRs also. I though Trevor showed much better improvement working through reads by the time he left.
DJ's struggles are significant. I believe Streeter can be directly at fault for some of them. He pocket awareness and footwork were just awful last year. DC's had film and saw him struggle with accuracy against BC and ND. We didn't have Travis Etienne, so DC's didn't have to respect the run as much. We had all 6'4 WRs and nobody to win in the quick passing game. Then the injuries mounted. A lot of DJ's struggles from a statistic standpoint were a product of his supporting cast. His footwork and pocket awareness can all be blamed on Streeter though. And it was really really bad.
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CU Guru [1511]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 2:55 PM
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I think you present a fair question even if it is a bit early to be good form.
Who knows what happened last year. DJ was a flop and it seems nothing tried provided real relief. Was it psychological? mechanics and footwork? poor on field support? poor play calling under the circumstances?
It's fair to be less than sold on Streeter as the qb coach. Let's see what he does as OC.
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Rock Defender [53]
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He's a great QB Recruiter
Aug 29, 2022, 2:30 PM
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And I have said the exact same thing, as far as development goes, the last 2-3 years. I am hoping he's a great OC and Dabo decides to dedicate him into that role and hire a new QB coach next year. In reality, we should have that already.
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Legend [19567]
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Maybe after twelve years
Aug 29, 2022, 2:36 PM
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maybe
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All-In [32587]
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But probably not - 2 of the QB's that are brought up
Aug 29, 2022, 4:45 PM
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WON NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS FOR US ! ! ! !
Can we get a freaking BBall coach with a pulse that can win maybe ONE OR 2 OR EVEN 3 ACC Tourney games in the same year ? ? ?
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CU Guru [1868]
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No
Aug 30, 2022, 8:52 AM
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We cannot.
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Recruit [76]
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Freshman [-79]
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DW and TL improved every year of their careers.
Aug 29, 2022, 2:45 PM
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DJ was out of shape and a mental mess last year. Streeter is a football coach, not a psychologist.
Seriously, why do try so hard?
And when do we expect Brad to finally develop his players?
Your troll work is weak. Why do you desperately seek attention?
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Heisman Winner [139873]
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You must be talking about yards per season with Deshaun…
Aug 29, 2022, 2:48 PM
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and yes you are correct, he improved every single year.
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Varsity [222]
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Re: DW and TL improved every year of their careers.
Aug 29, 2022, 3:09 PM
[ in reply to DW and TL improved every year of their careers. ] |
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As others have mentioned, it's hard to pin DJ's struggles on Streeter. Last year he came in overweight and dealing with personal issues that probably impacted his focus. He also had no real competition pushing him with Taison P recovering from his Achilles injury. One top of that DJ played injured for much of the season and got little support from his receivers.
I think we will see his best this year and I hope he looks like the Freshman that filled in for T Law.
If DJ can't regain that form and Klubnik lights it up this year that is better measuring stick. Klubniks play moving forward would be what I would keep an eye on. I think Streeter will have both QB's ready to go. Go Tigers! Wreck Tech!
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110%er [7870]
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Why? Just why!***
Aug 29, 2022, 2:54 PM
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CU Medallion [55300]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 3:11 PM
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To be totally honest Judge, I had those questions about Streeter all of last season. And with him being an X college QB, I was thinking ?, maybe he was trying to teach the way that he was taught, and Trevor was the only one of the 3 mentioned that was basically on the likeness of the style of QB that Streeter was when he played college FB...
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Orange Blooded [2846]
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At least give him one game
Aug 29, 2022, 3:17 PM
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Unbelievable. Go worry about something else. He will get the job done. Stop worrying.
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All-In [43992]
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He has had 7 years as our QB coach.
Aug 29, 2022, 4:51 PM
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That’s what this thread is about.
Please try to keep up.
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Legend [16226]
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Re: He has had 7 years as our QB coach.
Aug 29, 2022, 6:36 PM
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LOL maybe you should try to keep up if you are questioning what Clemson QB's have accomplished in the last 7 years under Streeter. We've enjoyed one of the single greatest spans in college football history through that span, and our exceptional QB play has played a major role in that.
Do you even hear yourself sometimes? Good gracious, Judge.
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All-In [43992]
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We are talking about QB development.
Aug 30, 2022, 12:58 PM
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Deshaun and Trevor both arrived on campus as superstars. They required very little in terms of an adjustment period.
In other words, they didn't need much developing in terms of getting them to a place where they could be the starter and lead the offense.
Your better argument would be to praise Streeter as a recruiter of top notch QBs. That's an argument I could easily support. But developing QBs? I think the jury is still out, based on a majority of the 5 star QBs he has coached here regressing in terms of their performance after their freshman seasons.
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Legend [16226]
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Re: We are talking about QB development.
Aug 30, 2022, 3:13 PM
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Here are some of the other 5-star rated QB's since 2014. You can decide on your own how well these incoming 5-star 'superstars requiring very little adjustment period' fared in that regard in comparison to Streeter's success with his.
Josh Rosen
Blake Barnett
Kyle Allen
Shea Patterson
Jacob Eason
Davis Mills
JT Daniels
Spencer Rattler
Bo Nix
Quinn Ewers
Caleb Williams
Sam Huard
Brock Vandagriff
JJ McCarthy
Kyle McCord
Justin Fields was also one. He actually topped Trevor there at the end coming out of high school and required transferring to O31O State a year later before 'developing' into a star.
Carry on.
#FreeTugaloo
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Hall of Famer [23100]
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Orange Blooded [2929]
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Well, when you put it that way,
Aug 30, 2022, 9:03 AM
[ in reply to He has had 7 years as our QB coach. ] |
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Streeter has been the most successful QB coach in Clemson history. Facts trump opinions every single time.
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All-In [43992]
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So how do you reconcile the facts I posted in my OP?
Aug 30, 2022, 12:59 PM
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Watson and Uiagalelei both saw their completion percentages go down, TD-to-INT ratios worsen, and QB ratings worsen throughout their careers at Clemson.
If that doesn't speak to a lack of QB development, I don't know what does.
Facts trump opinions, yes?
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110%er [5683]
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All-TigerNet [11487]
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HOLY MOLEY! Let them start the season, FRANCIS!!!
Aug 29, 2022, 3:23 PM
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It's football!! Calm yourself and let them coach!! Assess when the coots leave!!
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All-In [43992]
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He’s been our QB coach for 7 years.
Aug 29, 2022, 4:54 PM
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He’s had top QB talent to work with. It’s reasonable to ask these questions.
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All-TigerNet [11487]
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Yes, and 2 of his QB's were picked in the 1st round of the
Aug 30, 2022, 3:21 PM
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NFL draft and won National Championships while at Clemson!!
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Legend [16226]
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There's literally only one other coach in the NCAA the
Aug 30, 2022, 3:34 PM
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past 7 years that comes close to Streeter's QB coaching successes and that's Lincoln Riley, who had his own struggles with Spencer Rattler last year, and yet this idgit still keeps hammering away relentlessly.
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Orange Blooded [2634]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 3:27 PM
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I started that early last season. The football apologists, NOT DISSIMILAR TO THE BASKETBALL APOLOGISTS, are in denial here and they always will be, of course, until the person is $4i7canned and it's in retrospect. Hindsight is 20/20 for most. Cowards.
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CU Guru [1678]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 3:31 PM
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ABOUT THE SAME TIME AS "WE START TO QUESTION" JUDGE KELLER'S head, to see if he has a brain! It's opening day, everyone is excited and what do you post, a back handed slap our own Offensive Coordinator. REALLY SMART JUDGE. I assume you think you have ever how many zillion Posts that it makes you smarter and more knowledgeable about Clemson Football. Get over yourself, get on the Clemson bandwagon or go criticize someone who needs criticism, like maybe the MFL!! Jerk
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All-TigerNet [13693]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 3:37 PM
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The most disingenuous poster on TNet struts his stuff going into opening week.
It’s football season alright!! Go Tigers!!
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All-In [27363]
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Against top flight
Aug 29, 2022, 3:44 PM
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Opposition in high school DJ was very ordinary. You need to watch the films of his games against the Bama QB. He was very ordinary in those championship games. If not for Collins the receiver, his numbers would have been worse.
I’m looking for B. Collins to have an outstanding season. Hope he stays healthy because the Tigers need him.
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Orange Blooded [4150]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 3:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability ] |
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My! My! We haven't gotten to the first game of the season and folks want to run off the new OC. Let the season play out and then make your comments. Glad some of you don't eval my work product. Might not get to eat, must less paid. Give the folks a chance to screw up.
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All-In [43992]
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Relax, no one is trying to run off the new OC.
Aug 29, 2022, 4:58 PM
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This thread is about QB development under Streeter.
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Recruit [91]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 3:43 PM
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It's impossible to compare the three QB's. DW4 came in highly regarded and certainly became more confident as a player in his time at Clemson. He also had Mike Williams, HR13, and Deon Cain amongst others. TL Came in with about as much hype as any high school QB ever. By just meeting those expectations he improved (plus he certainly improved mechanically). Also had better players around him than DJ. DJ has not lived up to what many people felt he would be. He also doesn't have the playmakers around him the other 2 QB's had. Constant movement up front and poor recruiting/injuries at WR.
Now with all that being said, you take DW4 and TL on this team, its a NATTY year. But DJ isn't the "Playmaker" the other two were.
the playing style is too different to compare.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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I think we'll learn a lot this season.***
Aug 29, 2022, 4:26 PM
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Orange Blooded [2474]
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Agree with you on both topics in this post
Aug 29, 2022, 4:41 PM
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I am not sold on Streeter as a high quality QB coach.
I am not sold on Streeter as an innovative or effective Offensive Coordinator, yet.
I was not sold on Caldwell as our OL coach.
I was not sold on Tony Elliott either!
You can probably guess how I feel about our WRs coach although it’s not his fault his players are constantly sitting out/don’t want to play.
Hopefully we get better Oline play this year.
I witnessed Brent Venables and our defense squeak out 10 wins for our team last year somehow.
Hopefully I am proved wrong this season. ?
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Legend [16900]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 4:48 PM
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Deshaun won us a national championship after two years of being regressed. Trevor won the championship in his first year - I guess Streeter has no influence on first year quarterbacks. And Trevor miserably only led us to two more CFP appearances and was the #1 draft
pick despite Streeter’s interferences. You’ve made a strong case.
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110%er [5512]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 4:50 PM
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When he's failed to deliver after 12 years, right? A couple first-round draft picks and 2 Nattys so far...so he's got about 11 more years left before he should be questioned, if we follow departmental standards set by basketball "fans". Right?
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All-TigerNet [10483]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 5:05 PM
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Well……he was born in 1977…….so 1955 feels about right for T-netters to start judging him…..unless you think we should get a head start?
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Legend [18782]
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I share some of your concerns
Aug 29, 2022, 5:05 PM
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But like everyone else is saying, let's give him a chance at OC before we call it there.
I don't like 'hiring from within' when the offensive staff struggled. I felt like we needed new blood, but we'll find out soon enough.
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Orange Blooded [2287]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 5:55 PM
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I would say Deshaun improved based on him helping us win the national championship. Metrics only mean so much.
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All-In [40100]
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After 12 years of mediocrity***
Aug 29, 2022, 6:00 PM
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CU Guru [1039]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 6:06 PM
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Your analysis is flawed. Primary, because you've based it on a single statistic: Touchdown to interception ratio. Beyond that, it's flawed even within this narrow confine, specifically with Deshaun Watson.
Watson's tow full years are statistically similar. Just by your criterion, Watson's T/I ratio was 35/13 in 2015, and 41/17 in 2016. It's almost identical. His freshman year skews the results, because he was 14/2 in 2014.
However, Watson only attempted 137 passes in 2014. He only played 3 full games: North Carolina, NC State, and South Carolina. He missed 4 full games due to injury. He played one series vs. Georgia Tech, and one quarter vs. Louisville. He played about series vs. Georgia and about a half vs. Florida St.
Watson didn't play enough in 2014 to make an accurate comparison with the next two full years. This is skewing the results and leading g to a faulty conclusion.
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CU Guru [1508]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 6:21 PM
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1. Did Deshaun Watson improve under Streeter's tutelage?
Streeter has Watson 2015 and 2016 seasons. Won national title. First Round Draft Choice to NFL. No massage Envy lawsuits in Upstate of SC
Win for Streeter
2. Did Trevor Lawrence improve under Streeter's tutelage?
Streeter recruited him, TL won starting job as a true freshman, won national title, played in another NT game, Number 1 draft choice to NFL first ever for Clemson
Win for Streeter
3. Has DJ Uiagalelei improved under Streeter's tutelage?
Played well as a freshman when he knew he did not need to carry the team - lost one won one. DJ's issues have been over discussed in this forum, but he was all we had last year. Got 10 wins. Streeter let DJ know what needed to happen in off season to keep his job and DJ has responded. Evaluation of DJ is still ongoing - so this is not a true number three. Plus we now have a QB room with multiple options to win games if DJ does not produce. Streeter recruited the room including Cade.
Win for Streeter
Now if you could ask that same question about your basketball coach
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Orange Blooded [3044]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 6:58 PM
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It seems to me TL and DW would know best if Streeter is a good QB coach. Both are NFL powers who experience all kinds of coaches. I think both would have discreet, open lines to Dabo and he has an open line to them. If something were not right communications between them Dabo would have revealed it long ago. Objectively, we have had the best QBs around under Streeter until the great philosophical question of DJ’s bizarre last year.
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110%er [8095]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 7:00 PM
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Not sure we can blame DJU's poor performance on Streeter. The real question is about last year is why was the leash so long for DJ. Guessing the backup QBs had issues. Or DJU has compromising pictures of Dabo or Streeter or both.
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Orange Blooded [4447]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 7:21 PM
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After 10 years of losing basketball is my guess
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All-American [593]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 11:01 PM
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Unfortunately (or fortunately), I think seeing the field, and calm presence in the pocket are more gifts than acquired traits.
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Hall of Famer [23100]
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What YOU question OR think doesn't matter
Aug 29, 2022, 11:05 PM
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Dabo has already told you that you self appointed internet experts don't mean SHYT in his world. Funny, your kind still thinks they do LOL
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All-In [43992]
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That's great, because I don't seek Dabo's approval
Aug 30, 2022, 1:47 PM
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with my posts on TigerNet.
The whole point of a message board is to have conversation. I asked a legitimate question, backed by statistics. The fact that you and others here can't seem to handle that is very sad.
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Starter [377]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 29, 2022, 11:09 PM
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When his qb’s are consistently average!!! So far…he’s had one year of that out of his tenure…but does it really matter??? At Clemson you can be very average for over a decade and still collect a check!!! You know what I mean???
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All-In [43992]
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So you are happy with our QBs simply being better than
Aug 30, 2022, 1:53 PM
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average?
You don't think Streeter should be judged based on our QBs' performance, relative to their God-given talent and how much they improve (or regress) while they are at Clemson?
Sorry, but Streeter doesn't get credit for developing QBs who are already extremely well developed when they arrive on campus like Deshaun and Trevor. If they improve while here, that's great - Streeter is doing his job. But if they don't improve, or they get worse, I think that's a problem.
And he should absolutely be held responsible when said QBs perform worse after they've been in the program for some length of time.
So far, we have Cole Stoudt as his developmental success story. LOL.
Show me someone - anyone - who Streeter has molded into a much improved QB. We didn't see it with Phommachanh, Zerrick Cooper, Hunter Johnson, etc. Who else ya got?
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Orange Blooded [4954]
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Trent Dilfer on Streeter last year...
Aug 30, 2022, 9:09 AM
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Dilfer said the quarterback has gotten worse at Clemson, and he didn’t stop there.
“What’s going on with DJ right now at Clemson, that’s probably the most egregious thing I’ve seen,” Dilfer said. I love Dabo (Swinney) and I’ll probably get a phone call, but DJ’s gotten worse.”
The 13-year NFL veteran also asserted that Trevor Lawrence, now with the Jacksonville Jaguars, regressed with the Tigers.
“Trevor (Lawrence) got worse mechanically,” he said. “He has completely changed from the time he left Clemson to what he is now in Jacksonville. Much better. He’s so talented and they were rolling so much that he got away with being sloppy. He’d be the first to tell you. …I don’t even know who the quarterbacks coach is at Clemson. I couldn’t tell you his name. Colleges need to do a better job of understanding it’s a craft.”
https://www.on3.com/college/clemson-tigers/news/trent-dilfer-dj-uiagalelei-has-gotten-worse-clemson-dabo-swinney-trevor-lawrence/
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All-In [43992]
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Very interesting comments from Dilfer.***
Aug 30, 2022, 1:54 PM
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All-In [27178]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 30, 2022, 12:06 PM
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Trolling the football program again, huh JK? When do we start to question Brownlee's ability to develop basketball players? 10 years? 15 years? TIA
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All-In [43992]
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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I thought you said T-Law improved under Streeter?
Aug 30, 2022, 2:13 PM
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Can't have it both ways.
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CU Guru [1148]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 30, 2022, 12:11 PM
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Maybe if things go bad. Why even anticipate his failure. Is your glass half full or half empty
Asking in all sincerity cause I like you a lot
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110%er [5512]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 30, 2022, 1:57 PM
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His glass is full to the brim of Brad Brownell obsession. There isn't room for anything else.
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All-In [43992]
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It's not anticipating failure.
Aug 30, 2022, 1:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability ] |
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I hope he's the best offensive coordinator we've ever had at Clemson. I like him a lot.
I am just not sure if he's a great QB coach.
This is a look back, not a projection moving forward.
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Legend [15863]
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probably around the 2 or 3rd offensive drive .....
Aug 30, 2022, 12:52 PM
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maybe quicker, some people have twitchy trigger fingers about
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All-In [36207]
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^^^^^^^^^^^^SECRETLY HATES ALL CLEMSON COACHES^^^^^^^^^^^^^^***
Aug 30, 2022, 1:26 PM
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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^^^^^^^^^^^^SECRETLY HATES ALL CLEMSON COACHES^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Aug 30, 2022, 1:55 PM
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That aren't named Brad Brownell.
FIFY
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All-In [43992]
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Legend [16900]
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Re: You missed the part where I said that I like Streeter.
Aug 30, 2022, 3:28 PM
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You don’t like Streeter. Deshaun had no concerning statistical trend. And it isn’t a reasonable question. 25% F
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110%er [5512]
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Re: You missed the part where I said that I like Streeter.
Aug 31, 2022, 11:38 AM
[ in reply to You missed the part where I said that I like Streeter. ] |
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DJ's regression is not factual. You can't take such a small sample size - 2 games against bad defenses, piloting a well-oiled machine that is already up and running - and then compare that to a full year with no safety net and new personnel. He was also injured for nearly the entire season.
I am NOT a DJU apologist...he failed last year. He was not as good as advertised, was not confident, did not move well in the pocket, was inaccurate, etc. You can point your finger at half a dozen reasons, or more, as to why that happened.
But, "regression" is not a term that can enter that conversation. You need an established baseline to regress from, which he did not have.
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 30, 2022, 2:18 PM
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Coached Cole Stoudt to his best game as a Tiger(in his first as a coach)
2 - 1st round picks (1 that was 1st overall) Both also won NCs.
We continue to recruit at an insanely high level for QBs w/Klubnik and Vizzina
Not sure what there is to complain about outside of DJ last year, which I personally believe had more to do with DJ than Streeter.
I've seen you post numerous times that you think DJ will have a great year. If you truly believe that then how can you then question Streeter as a coach? That maff doesn't add up.
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Orange Blooded [2336]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 30, 2022, 2:46 PM
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It will be after you question Your friend Brad. That means it’s never gonna happen.
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Legend [16900]
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6 CFP appearances as QB coach. Next closest is 2.***
Aug 30, 2022, 3:29 PM
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Legend [17522]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 30, 2022, 6:12 PM
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Streeter is on an upward career path. Deshaun Watson and Trevor Lawrence are two of the top QB's in the world -- they would have been stars with or without Streeter in the mix. That said, Chad Morris recruited Watson, and Streeter successfully recruited Lawrence. Points for that!
Streeter will be tested under the spotlight as a 1st-year OC. TE coach and passing coordinator Kyle Richardson will have a key support role, but the buck stops with Streeter. QB, OL and WR play -- all Streeter's responsibility to mesh. Streeter will also have to manage and steer Dabo Swinney with recommended/needed personnel & strategic moves. Not easy.
No doubt Streeter will be judged mostly on QB play and wins-losses. He is playing for high personal and professional stakes, and he will be judged early and often by many. I like his chances with this team and staff. Go Tigers!
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CU Medallion [51933]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 31, 2022, 7:28 AM
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As of this date, Streeter has not lost a game in his current position. What's the point of the question?
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Legend [18717]
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Re: When do we start to question Streeter's ability
Aug 31, 2022, 7:39 AM
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Not sure whether your intention is to troll the football team or not, however I will agree with that analysis. I thought Watson took a step back or at least did not improve. Lawrence small improvements. DJ definitely had a bad year. I still think the success of the QBS makes his job secure.
Now if this a shot because of everyone's desire to replace Brownell then I think you are way off. In order for Streeter to reach Brownell status he would have to have 13 years of DJ's production last year.
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