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CU Medallion [65375]
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What's the Big Deal about Elon Musk Ox now owning the
Nov 1, 2022, 11:38 AM
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Twitter? Once a Twit, always a Twit, I say.
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All-In [44031]
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Because the radicals think that anyone should be able
Nov 1, 2022, 11:43 AM
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to say anything without repercussion.
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110%er [6858]
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you mean the commies think they can censor opposition
Nov 1, 2022, 11:48 AM
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b/c thats EXACTLY what twatter and douchebook do.
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CU Guru [1692]
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Re: you mean the commies think they can censor opposition
Nov 1, 2022, 1:50 PM
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Twitter is not a government institution. They should, and do, retain the right to deplatform any type of speech they desire. They have no duty to protect freedom of speech.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: you mean the commies think they can censor opposition
Nov 1, 2022, 2:04 PM
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The standard Twitter adheres to - and any successful social media platform adheres to, because there's so many alternatives - is: what's the least amount of moderation they can enforce - because moderation costs both users (when you ban them) and also labor hours because moderators ain't free - and still maintain the minimum civility required to keep their user base happy?
I mean, look no further than T-Net. This is a moderated forum. When trolls get out of control and folks start being jerks to one another and the tone and tenor of the forum degenerates here, the Hand of Crump & B-Meist comes down...and the offenders vanish, first temporarily, then permanently if they won't amend their wicked ways.
Censorship? Sure. But when you watch how one really virulent troll can completely poison the board when they run amok - or worse, when several of 'em get together and start harassing other users - you see exactly why it's necessary, too.
The trick, as with all things, is balance. Too heavy a hand and people feel like they can't talk and just log off in frustration, and your user base dies. Too light and the troll army runs amok...and the decent users who are just present for the community and the discussion go away...and the user base dies.
People like to make it more complicated than that, but it really isn't. And Elon's either going to discover real quick Twitter has the rules it does because Twitter has to have the rules it does to keep their advertisers happy and user base at least semi-civil, or he's going to discover he owns Parler, or Gettr, or Gab...or one of dozens of other apps that lost their user bases because the inmates were running the asylum and eating the ordinary townsfolk right in the middle of the metaphorical town square.
He's got $44 billion reasons to get it right. I dunno, Elon being Elon, who knows what he's really gonna do? I definitely am watching to see what he does with interest; he gets it wrong and Twitter will go the way of MySpace...and in like, about five seconds flat. That's the world we live in today.
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CU Guru [1692]
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Re: you mean the commies think they can censor opposition
Nov 1, 2022, 2:34 PM
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People like to make it more complicated than that, but it really isn't. And Elon's either going to discover real quick Twitter has the rules it does because Twitter has to have the rules it does to keep their advertisers happy and user base at least semi-civil, or he's going to discover he owns Parler, or Gettr, or Gab...or one of dozens of other apps that lost their user bases because the inmates were running the asylum and eating the ordinary townsfolk right in the middle of the metaphorical town square.
Ding ding ding. Hammer, meet head of nail. Advertisers don't like controversy stemming from content that can easily be interpreted as hate speech. And when a publicly traded company asks their shareholders whether they should ban the content or give the middle finger to that advertising money guess what the shareholders are going to say?
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CU Guru [1511]
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Re: you mean the commies think they can censor opposition
Nov 2, 2022, 2:15 AM
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nothing....they won't ask shareholders as a group, just a few select representatives of large shareholders will chime in. But it is worth asking what role corporations have/ should have in promoting social positions through advertising dollars and other activities.
we must acknowledge that absolute neutrality is not possible, so what is the appropriate standard?
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CU Guru [1511]
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Re: you mean the commies think they can censor opposition
Nov 2, 2022, 2:16 AM
[ in reply to Re: you mean the commies think they can censor opposition ] |
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nothing....they won't ask shareholders as a group, just a few select representatives of large shareholders will chime in. But it is worth asking what role corporations have/ should have in promoting social positions through advertising dollars and other activities.
we must acknowledge that absolute neutrality is not possible, so what is the appropriate standard?
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Legend [16902]
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Re: you mean the commies think they can censor opposition
Nov 1, 2022, 2:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: you mean the commies think they can censor opposition ] |
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Except it’s not that cut and dry. Platforms are specifically protected from civil ligation relating to speech by a special act of the government that was specifically designed to protect speech within those platforms. Illegal speech was to be prosecuted by legal authorities, not the platforms themselves. They’re having their cake and eating it too these days. If they want to be able to deplatform users they should be subject to the same civil liability as any other industry.
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Legend [19585]
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Re: you mean the commies think they can censor opposition
Nov 1, 2022, 3:45 PM
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Bingo!
If platforms want to pick and choose what view points are allowed on their platforms and then rip away their shield of liability!
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CU Guru [1692]
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Re: you mean the commies think they can censor opposition
Nov 1, 2022, 5:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: you mean the commies think they can censor opposition ] |
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Except it is. Section 230 was not designed to "protect speech within those platforms". It was designed to protect platforms from their users. The entire point of Section 230 was to give platforms shielding from liabilities for user content while also providing them the ability to moderate as they see fit, which is exactly what it's doing. Despite what Trump would have you believe, moderating content doesn't make Twitter a publisher. That's why his EO did absolutely nothing to curb their moderation.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: you mean the commies think they can censor opposition
Nov 1, 2022, 6:14 PM
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You’re making a distinction without a difference. They’re protected against repercussions for their actions as a platform - that isn’t free market and should have the same burden to protect speech that the government does. I love that you’ve been programmed to believe I must support (or even listen to) to Trump because I disagree with you. Any entity operating under a government umbrella has no right to police legal speech. That you’ve allowed politics to warp your feelings towards the integrity of free speech should be alarming.
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CU Guru [1692]
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Re: you mean the commies think they can censor opposition
Nov 1, 2022, 6:55 PM
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Point by point:
1. "They’re protected against repercussions for their actions as a platform" is not a true statement. They're protected against repercussions for their USERS actions as a platform. Those are not the same thing. At all.
2. "That isn’t free market and should have the same burden to protect speech that the government does." That's an opinion I disagree with. No entity that is not government OWNED has any duty to protect freedom of speech. Free market has nothing to do with it.
3. I'm not "programmed" to believe anything. I just know the genesis of your ###### argument.
4. Operating with a government protection and operating under a government umbrella are not the same thing
5. Politics haven't warped my feelings "towards the integrity of free speech" at all. I just don't agree that being free to say whatever you want means you're free of societal consequences for saying whatever you want.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: you mean the commies think they can censor opposition
Nov 1, 2022, 7:13 PM
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You have no idea the genesis of my argument/opinion because it predates Trump’s candidacy.
“No entity that is not government OWNED has any duty to protect freedom of speech” - as long as it isn’t government owned you don’t care how legislation influences their behavior? Anything goes as long as there is third party ownership? Does this apply only to speech or are you willing to let other businesses violate any other civil rights under government protection as long as you can buy stock? I’m sure Halliburton would love to get into domestic law enforcement as long as they could not be sued. I’m sure many in the newspaper industry would accept a government censor if they could shore up their coffers.
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All-TigerNet [10345]
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Orange Blooded [3625]
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Re: Because the radicals think that anyone should be able
Nov 1, 2022, 11:57 AM
[ in reply to Because the radicals think that anyone should be able ] |
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Yeah, the left has an issue with that free speech thing, the Media should be controlled to better fit their narrative.
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Orange Blooded [4483]
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Re: Because the radicals think that anyone should be able
Nov 1, 2022, 12:26 PM
[ in reply to Because the radicals think that anyone should be able ] |
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I guess our founding fathers were radicals.
I bet you think someone's "speech" that doesn't line up with your "woke" ideas is essentially "violence" as well.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Because the radicals think that anyone should be able
Nov 1, 2022, 3:53 PM
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If they can't win the debate based on facts, they must silence the opposition.
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Commissioner [982]
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Re: Because the radicals think that anyone should be able
Nov 1, 2022, 12:32 PM
[ in reply to Because the radicals think that anyone should be able ] |
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Yes making it seem false when your hit in the head with a hammer.Go figure. This country is headed to a Civil War because our Democracy is being threatened .Thank Trump.
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CU Guru [1998]
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All-In [30788]
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count me in on this radical idea of free speech
Nov 1, 2022, 1:36 PM
[ in reply to Because the radicals think that anyone should be able ] |
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seems like an unalienable right endowed by one's creator. It's pretty self evident to me but what do i know? I drive a Chevy Silverado, eat wheat toast, and pay my own bills.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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CU Guru [1998]
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OMG. This is hysterical! HAHAHA***
Nov 1, 2022, 3:00 PM
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Because the radicals think that anyone should be able
Nov 1, 2022, 3:52 PM
[ in reply to Because the radicals think that anyone should be able ] |
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The leftists can say anything without reprocussion. The right should be able to do the same. This nation is founded on free speech and debate. Facts will win the debate against the extremes. The leftists don't want debate, they only want to silence their opposition. I think a lot of younger people should study the difference between liberalism and leftism. Liberalism has always welcomed and encouraged debate. Leftism is afraid of debate. Some of you who are sipping the leftist Kol Aid should ask yourself why modern leftism is afraid of debate.
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Freshman [-79]
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110%er [6153]
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Elon is absolutely my very favorite multi-billionaire!
Nov 1, 2022, 11:47 AM
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Of all the multi-billionaires, I like him best.
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110%er [6858]
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b/c the libtards cant control the narrative now and censor
Nov 1, 2022, 11:48 AM
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people the dont agree with.
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Letterman [257]
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Totally agree! Also I should be able to walk into any
Nov 1, 2022, 12:38 PM
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restaurant and yell insults at the staff and other customers and still be able to enjoy a nice meal. If they don’t let me do that, they are violating my first amendment right!
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Legend [19585]
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Re: Totally agree! Also I should be able to walk into any
Nov 1, 2022, 3:47 PM
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Since when is a restaurant a platform particularly for speech? apples/oranges.....not to mention, using your example, if someone agrees with saying those things in a restaurant they can buy out the restaurant and allow it
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Letterman [257]
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Anything can be a “platform” for speech.
Nov 1, 2022, 4:17 PM
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And my example is at its roots the same thing- both a restaurant and Twitter are private business that can choose what they allow to go on within the business. And you are correct, someone can buy it and allow whatever speech he wants (Elon in this example). However, if he didn’t allow it, that’s also perfectly acceptable and within his right. So whether he allows everything or just one side’s speech, no one’s free speech rights are being violated in either instance.
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Legend [19585]
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Then we are in agreement on Free Speech
Nov 1, 2022, 4:27 PM
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However, what you are leaving out is the fact that social medium platforms enjoy the protection of the federal government against liability from the uses of its platform by the very tax payers that representatively provide those protections. Just the same that schools must adhere to the constitution principles of our democracy in order to enjoy federal dollars, social media platforms should also have to the same for their protections.
Also, we aren't in agreement on the idea that a business owner allowing lenient speech on a social media platform being the same thing as a business owner allowing it in a restaurant. Those do not equate.
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Letterman [257]
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Obviously they’re not equal in terms of their effect and reach, but
Nov 1, 2022, 4:40 PM
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the core principle is the exact same. The difference is I’m only reaching a couple dozen people in my speech in the restaurant, and millions on social media. The magnitude is way different, but the act is not.
And I’m ok with protections being removed. The result will be even more banning of wacko accounts to limit liability, and that is the platforms choice.
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Legend [19585]
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Re: Obviously they’re not equal in terms of their effect and reach, but
Nov 1, 2022, 5:32 PM
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"And I’m ok with protections being removed. The result will be even more banning of wacko accounts to limit liability, and that is the platforms choice."
We find ourselves in agreement once again as the conclusion. It has to be one or the other. Allow all speech within the law or no protections. Otherwise it becomes a powerful quasi-government/private tool to dictate agendas and narrative by the biases of those holding the power.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: Then we are in agreement on Free Speech
Nov 1, 2022, 6:37 PM
[ in reply to Then we are in agreement on Free Speech ] |
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The anything is a platform argument is silly. Most things can be held to a reasonableness standard. Is it reasonable to believe that a restaurant is primarily engaged in speech? No. Is it reasonable that Facebook and Twitter are primarily engaged in speech (regardless of how monetized)? Yes.
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Letterman [257]
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They can still choose what speech they allow within
Nov 1, 2022, 6:41 PM
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their business. No one’s rights are being violated if they ban an account because they don’t like what you’re saying.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: They can still choose what speech they allow within
Nov 1, 2022, 6:46 PM
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I was commenting strictly on the “anything is a platform argument.” I’m all for platforms policing themselves just as soon as they are not a de facto branch of the government via their special protections. Protections that restaurants don’t enjoy. (Though fast food chains have tax new hire tax credit that need to go away).
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All-In [30788]
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Legend [15863]
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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It's not a big deal. It's just that some people think he
Nov 1, 2022, 11:51 AM
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will let Trump and his lies back on the platform and that has them giddy.
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CU Medallion [65375]
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As long as he never gets near the White House again, he can
Nov 1, 2022, 11:56 AM
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be a TWIT all he wants, I never follow it anyway. You couldn't get away from it when he was President, though, because DAILY, he would open his mouth and insert his foot. He was addicted, he just could not stay off Twitter, against all advice given him by his advisors.
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All-In [30788]
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I dont log into twitter either
Nov 1, 2022, 12:07 PM
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but i do log into my 401k
I was very happy; now i have the sad face. I don't even look at it anymore because it is too depressing..
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Orange Blooded [2100]
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Joined: 12/12/14
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Re: dont log into twitter either
Nov 1, 2022, 12:49 PM
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You nailed it. I don't have a twitter account and don't want one. I could care lees what Trump post or said. I care about my 401K, personal investments and bank account. I too was happy and now have a sad face. Bring back Trump.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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Posts: 31281
Joined: 11/30/98
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110%er [6858]
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Posts: 6499
Joined: 10/7/07
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Orange Blooded [4483]
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Re: the irony of your statement is undoubtedly lost on you***
Nov 1, 2022, 12:29 PM
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I know right? Hello Pot meet Kettle.
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Hall of Famer [24208]
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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Posts: 31281
Joined: 11/30/98
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Joined: 10/15/02
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Re: Hopefully, Trump gets back on Twitter soon.
Nov 1, 2022, 12:12 PM
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I'm still waiting on Bolsonaro to go all Scarface on us. Dude has been in full radio silence since losing to Lula a couple days ago.
One way or another, I suspect that endorsement ain't gonna age well.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Maybe Bolsonaro can hire the Sidney and Rudy Twins to
Nov 1, 2022, 12:19 PM
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get some real head juice into Bolsonaro's efforts.
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Hall of Famer [24208]
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110%er [8503]
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Because he doesn't care if it's all made up sheet as long as
Nov 1, 2022, 11:56 AM
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He can profit from it. I drive one of his EVs and we've been living with it for years. Full self driving has been 6 months away for 5 years, robotaxis, cybertruck, roadster, 4680 batteries, even flying cars are all things he promises. Don't get your hopes up alt righters; when it comes to Elon don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.
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Hall of Famer [24208]
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I am sure that he appreciates you buying his car
Nov 1, 2022, 11:59 AM
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LOL
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110%er [8503]
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Don't give two sheets about how he feels about it
Nov 1, 2022, 12:13 PM
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It was and still is the best product of its kind. I'm not a child I don't need to get warm fuzzies about a company to be able to make the best buying decision. Just be sure to buy his products based on their current specs and don't rely on future promised enhancements.
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Hall of Famer [24208]
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Thank you for sharing this.
Nov 1, 2022, 12:36 PM
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LOL
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110%er [8503]
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You are easily amused
Nov 1, 2022, 12:56 PM
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Congratulations
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Hall of Famer [24208]
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The best way to get away from mentally unstable people
Nov 1, 2022, 1:11 PM
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that I know. Thank you for sharing.
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All-TigerNet [10904]
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Legend [19585]
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Re: What's the Big Deal about Elon Musk Ox now owning the
Nov 1, 2022, 12:03 PM
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Twitter decided to censor and shadow ban conservative view points, philosophies, legitimate news that hurts left-leaning platforms and promote left-leaning view points, philosophies and fake news that helps left-leaning platforms. Elon bought twitter because he doesn't believe any view point, philosophy or legitimate news should be censored or shadow banned. The fascist left are mad about it.
That about sums it up.
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110%er [6858]
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Correct. Case in point all the b*tthurt libs in here TDing***
Nov 1, 2022, 12:06 PM
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110%er [5093]
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Legend [19585]
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Joined: 7/25/07
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Re: What's the Big Deal about Elon Musk Ox now owning the
Nov 1, 2022, 12:11 PM
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It isn't untrue at all. It has been proven as fact time and time again.
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110%er [6858]
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All-TigerNet [10904]
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110%er [5093]
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Re: What's the Big Deal about Elon Musk Ox now owning the
Nov 1, 2022, 2:30 PM
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Fact checks like not allowing conspiracy theories that accuse a victim of an attempted murder of being in a homosexual relationship with the criminal?
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All-TigerNet [10904]
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Re: What's the Big Deal about Elon Musk Ox now owning the
Nov 1, 2022, 3:30 PM
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If the shoe fits? Actually to paraphrase something I read earlier - it's amazing how the media doesn't know who the Jan 6 pipe bomber is, who the Supreme Court leaker is, identify a full list of Epstein's clients, know the motive of the Las Vegas shooter, but knew Paul Pelosi's attacker was MAGA before they were even dressed. There have been rumors of Paul Pelosi being Gay/Bi for years. The accusations didn't just start now.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 31281
Joined: 11/30/98
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Looks like the conspiracy mongers found an easy mark
Nov 1, 2022, 3:40 PM
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when they found you.
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All-TigerNet [10904]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Looks like the conspiracy mongers found an easy mark
Nov 1, 2022, 5:27 PM
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F Off Libtard. The Dems found a perfect idiot in you.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: What's the Big Deal about Elon Musk Ox now owning the
Nov 1, 2022, 3:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: What's the Big Deal about Elon Musk Ox now owning the ] |
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I will give you a fact. prior to election, Twitter suppressed info about Hunters laptop. Twitter said it was Russian misinformation. The story was 100% legitimate. It was Hunters laptop. Russians had nothing to do with it.
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Letterman [275]
TigerPulse: 90%
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110%er [5255]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1/27/02
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ELon showed his true mettle with the tweet on Pelosi husband
Nov 1, 2022, 11:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: What's the Big Deal about Elon Musk Ox now owning the ] |
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attack. Although he deleted it a couple hours later, with no explanation, the right wing media caught it and has run with the conspiracy theories. Meanwhile, mr pelosi, an 82 year old man, is still in the hospital with a fractured skull following surgery.
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CU Medallion [64573]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88987
Joined: 3/27/01
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Well...I think it's largely because...
Nov 1, 2022, 12:42 PM
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he doesn't subscribe the radical left agenda and cancel culture censorship mentality.
Again, the group that preaches about diversity, inclusion, and acceptance aren't the least bit interested in dissenting views or opinions. They are some of the most homogeneous, exclusive and unaccepting people you will ever encounter.
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Hall of Famer [24965]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2/15/09
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The idea that Musk is some kind of free speech absolutist
Nov 1, 2022, 12:56 PM
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is pretty funny. He has censored plenty of people in the past who have criticized him or Tesla.
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110%er [5093]
TigerPulse: 42%
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Joined: 7/19/05
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Re: The idea that Musk is some kind of free speech absolutist
Nov 1, 2022, 2:32 PM
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It's truly amazing how people can just completely ignore the truth.
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Legend [19585]
TigerPulse: 84%
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Joined: 7/25/07
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Re: The idea that Musk is some kind of free speech absolutist
Nov 1, 2022, 3:54 PM
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It's amazing that people cannot discern the difference in censorship and choosing not to digest. Someone blocking a person who says something that they don't agree with (what elon did) is not the same thing as censoring them (what twitter was doing). In fact, the practice of simply blocking out speech you don't like is a bedrock principle of the free speech process.
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Legend [16132]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26434
Joined: 11/18/03
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110%er [5093]
TigerPulse: 42%
Posts: 17074
Joined: 7/19/05
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Re: You said our programs were eye to eye in the midst of an 8
Nov 9, 2022, 8:01 PM
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Link?
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Legend [16132]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/18/03
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Are you saying you never said it?***
Nov 10, 2022, 12:13 PM
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110%er [5093]
TigerPulse: 42%
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Joined: 7/19/05
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Re: Are you saying you never said it?***
Nov 10, 2022, 1:05 PM
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Certainly not in the last 8-9 years.
Message was edited by: Classof09®
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All-In [30788]
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All-TigerNet [10448]
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I hate Twitter and have never even had an account.***
Nov 1, 2022, 1:19 PM
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CU Guru [1428]
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Re: What's the Big Deal about Elon Musk Ox now owning the
Nov 1, 2022, 1:32 PM
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He had investors from Saudi Arabia involved in the purchase.
Not so sure it's a good idea for the world to have those people involved in "free speech"
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Joined: 10/15/02
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Re: What's the Big Deal about Elon Musk Ox now owning the
Nov 1, 2022, 1:44 PM
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Is that just about the weirdest partnership ever? I never did quite get that.
You'd think the Saudis would be trying to assassinate Musk, not get in business with him. I mean, his product is going to displace their product...whereupon the Saudis will have, well, a lot of sand. And not much else.
The world is often weird. If I was Musk, though, I'd be real careful drinking the tea at Twitter investor meetings.
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Legend [19585]
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Letterman [275]
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Re: What's the Big Deal about Elon Musk Ox now owning the
Nov 1, 2022, 1:53 PM
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He's a free speech absolutist and freaks out the controlled media. Its harder to suppress truth and exchange of ideas when you don't fully control the media
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Hall of Famer [22387]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 31281
Joined: 11/30/98
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Twitter just kicked a bunch of Chinese and Iranian
Nov 1, 2022, 2:01 PM
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influencers off who were pushing MAGA's favorite conspiracies.
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CU Guru [1351]
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Re: Twitter just kicked a bunch of Chinese and Iranian
Nov 1, 2022, 2:37 PM
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What are Maga conspiracies? Please enlighten me.
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Orange Blooded [2533]
TigerPulse: 89%
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Joined: 10/10/08
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Allz I know is
Nov 1, 2022, 2:39 PM
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he's not nearly as smart as I thought he was, for buying that trash.
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CU Medallion [65375]
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Joined: 12/3/03
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Maybe King OrangeHair fronted him some of the cash?
Nov 1, 2022, 4:54 PM
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Would not surprise me in the least, the Donald was addicted to being a Twit.
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Legend [19585]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 17257
Joined: 7/25/07
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Re: Maybe King OrangeHair fronted him some of the cash?
Nov 1, 2022, 5:30 PM
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He was also addicted to building a strong economy and tearing down leftist, socialist and fascist policies, but here we are paying $4 for gas, can't find chicken wings and paychecks going half as far thanks to all the orangemanphobia. Now we have a senile idiot running everything.
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: Maybe King OrangeHair fronted him some of the cash?
Nov 1, 2022, 7:35 PM
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blaming gas prices on any US politician requires one to ignore basic economics.
But keep it up, please, LMFAO.
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Legend [19585]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 17257
Joined: 7/25/07
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Re: Maybe King OrangeHair fronted him some of the cash?
Nov 1, 2022, 11:04 PM
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I didn’t blame anything on one politician. I listed things we ended up with after the “Blue Wave”. Literacy is a fine thing my friend. But keep it up…
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: What's the Big Deal about Elon Musk Ox now owning the
Nov 1, 2022, 5:39 PM
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Comical to see the simplistic views on this board that folks find so comforting.
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Legend [19943]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11202
Joined: 9/23/07
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Some level of moderation is needed
Nov 1, 2022, 6:44 PM
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but Twitter had a habit of banning people for wrongthink. The Babylon Bee, which is basically a Christian conservative version of The Onion, had their account suspended for this tweet:
There have also been people who were banned for spreading "misinformation" that later turned out to be true. I'm hopeful that Musk will do away with that sort of thing, but don't expect Twitter to become a free-for-all by any means. They have to keep the advertisers happy.
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110%er [5712]
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Posts: 4268
Joined: 10/22/00
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Re: What's the Big Deal about Elon Musk Ox now owning the
Nov 1, 2022, 7:10 PM
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You should know 76er.
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