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All-In [26503]
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What you are saying if you want 2 teams from one conference
Oct 25, 2022, 3:14 PM
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in the CFP ...
The Conference Championship is pointless, because it did not determine which was the best team from the conference.
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All-In [30818]
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if every conference has a conference champ game
Oct 25, 2022, 3:23 PM
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and the conference champ goes to the playoff
then you have a 20 team CFP already.
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CU Guru [1826]
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How are you getting 20 teams?
Oct 25, 2022, 3:26 PM
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10 FBS conferences plus the independents:
AAC
ACC
Big12
Big10
ConfUSA
Mid America
Mountain West
Pac12
SEC
Sun Belt
What am I missing?
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All-In [30818]
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10 conferences
Oct 25, 2022, 3:30 PM
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2 teams per conference.
sorry independents.. too bad so sad
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All-In [25393]
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Other than two of the eight years, the Committee has done
Oct 25, 2022, 3:37 PM
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a fairly decent job spreading the wealth, so to speak.
The four-team format could not survive with two teams from one conference selected repeatedly. Hopefully, this year there will be programs not in the SEC which will make the Committee's job easier.
This is why I've favored an eight-team scenario from the beginning...to give each P5 a better chance at representation. Most of the yammering about two or three-SEC teams being included this year are blithering idiots with peanuts for brains, simply because they do not grasp the implications for the playoff. They are, also, SEC homers, shrills or numbnut media types with agendas spelled M-O-N-E-Y!
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110%er [8537]
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Re: What you are saying if you want 2 teams from one conference
Oct 25, 2022, 3:41 PM
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A National Championship Playoff should be the 4 best teams without regards to a conference.
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All-In [29036]
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"Best" is a fool's errand
Oct 25, 2022, 3:53 PM
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Once you go down the road of determining "best" you've entered the realm of opinions and allowing the decision to be driven by some group and their ingrained biases. Without a clear and concrete non-opinion based method of getting to the championship then a solid 1/2 to 2/3 (if not more) of the teams playing football in FBS have zero path to the title.
I also think it interesting you apply the logic of picking the best teams to 4. Why that number? Why not the 2 we used to pick. Or if we're just picking teams why not just play the regular season and crown a champ based on opinions.
I'm ok with expanding the playoffs (and in fact I think it necessary), but only if there is a win-your-major-conference-and-get-a-bid clause. That way the path is set in stone for any team to win their way there and it diffuses the opinion driven talking head style feeling of who is best being what matters most.
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110%er [5512]
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Re: "Best" is a fool's errand
Oct 25, 2022, 4:08 PM
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Of course it's subjective. It has to be. There are 130 teams, unbalanced schedules, and no way to mathematically rank them without any bias. So, a committee determines the top 4 and IMO it's been largely successful and has been the most fair determinant of a national champion in the history of college football.
And FYI, the new 12-team model already has a "win your conference and you get in" clause.
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All-In [29036]
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Oh, I know
Oct 25, 2022, 4:18 PM
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And I'm fine with the new format.
I liked it all better when there weren't mega conferences and you played every team in your conference. That sort of scenario sets up very well for the playoffs to be a tournament of conference champions.
And, in fact, I actually think the committee has done a good job overall of picking teams. I don't really think there have been any indefensible snubs. I just prefer the idea of having to win your conference to get in, especially before you invite a team who didn't win their conference.
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Orange Blooded [4596]
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Re: "Best" is a fool's errand
Oct 25, 2022, 6:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: "Best" is a fool's errand ] |
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Yep, so 5 power-5 winners, and then the B1G and SEC runners up, then next 5 SEC teams.
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CU Guru [1043]
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Re: What you are saying if you want 2 teams from one conference
Oct 25, 2022, 3:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: What you are saying if you want 2 teams from one conference ] |
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The issue is this. If you only have 4 spots, and you are trying to determine a NATIONAL championship, it needs to be National in scope. If you have two teams that already played within a conference, that needs to be a de facto elimination game, and you need to give someone else a shot. If you have 12 teams, it's not so big of a deal. With only 4 teams, you need to pick more teams from around the nation.
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Orange Blooded [3615]
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Re: What you are saying if you want 2 teams from one conference
Oct 25, 2022, 3:43 PM
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It should almost be pointless. Some conferences on a given year are way better and some suck on a given year. Some conferences at times deserve 2.
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Legend [17774]
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Re: What you are saying if you want 2 teams from one conference
Oct 25, 2022, 3:50 PM
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Not pointless. Still a determinant but not THE determinant.
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Orange Blooded [4596]
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Re: What you are saying if you want 2 teams from one conference
Oct 25, 2022, 6:41 PM
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But so far, when we have 2 teams from one conference, it's been a rematch of the conference championship game. Seems like a rubber match should be played if the loser of the conference champion then wins the rematch.
Conference championships ought to be considered as the first round of the playoffs.
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110%er [5512]
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Re: What you are saying if you want 2 teams from one conference
Oct 25, 2022, 3:56 PM
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in the CFP ...
The Conference Championship is pointless, because it did not determine which was the best team from the conference.
I disagree. You are saying that the #2 in one conference is better than the #1 in another conference. Which is true, every year. The conferences are not created equal.
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All-In [29036]
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No, what he's saying
Oct 25, 2022, 3:58 PM
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Is that the #2 in one conference has *already* proven to not have as good a year as the #1 in that same conference. At that point you give the #1 in another conference a chance to prove or disprove their worth against the other #1.
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110%er [5512]
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Re: No, what he's saying
Oct 25, 2022, 4:04 PM
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I know what he is saying. But what the process in place says is that a conf champ is not necessarily better than a non-conf champ. Which, again, has been clearly true many times.
This is not a system designed to match 4 teams from 4 conferences. It is a system designed to select the 4 best teams in the country. It's stated that way specifically in the selection criteria.
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All-In [29036]
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Again, I know
Oct 25, 2022, 4:20 PM
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I just think the notion of determining "best" is a fool's errand. It invites a system where opinions begin to trump outcomes on the field, and I prefer a more concrete non-opinion based standard.
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110%er [6882]
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Agree. Conference champ only. That makes the entire
Oct 25, 2022, 3:58 PM
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season a playoff.
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All-In [29036]
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I'm OK inviting other non-conf-champs
Oct 25, 2022, 3:59 PM
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But only in the situation that the conference champs get an invite as well.
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CU Guru [1266]
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Re: Agree. Conference champ only. That makes the entire
Oct 25, 2022, 4:20 PM
[ in reply to Agree. Conference champ only. That makes the entire ] |
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There is a possibility with the loss of Bama to Tenn, that Tenn loses to UGA which makes UGA the east champ that goes on the meet the west champ Bama in the SEC playoff. If Bama wins we have Tenn, Bama and UGA all with one loss and probably still ranked in the top five.
CU goes undefeated through the ACC championship and has a claim to the top 4, either Mich or OSU beat the other and win the Big10 to be undefeated, so we have OSU/Mich and CU as undefeated conference champions and the other three as one-loss SEC teams with Bama as the SEC champ. 5 doesn't go into 4 so who gets left out??
I left out the PAC, but they always seem to end up with a handful of 2-loss teams anyway.
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All-In [29036]
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They are not going to leave out an undefeated P5 champ
Oct 25, 2022, 4:22 PM
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And this year there are a max of 4 available.
Win and we're in
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110%er [5512]
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Re: Agree. Conference champ only. That makes the entire
Oct 25, 2022, 4:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: Agree. Conference champ only. That makes the entire ] |
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5 doesn't go into 4 so who gets left out??
One of UGA/Tennessee gets left out. Bama would be in over both as the conference champ.
The committee would have to weigh all of the factors to decide which gets left out. A lot of it would rest on how the UGA/UT and UGA/UA games went. If Bama blows out UGA, UT could make it in. Otherwise, I'd see UGA getting the nod due to the H2H win over UT.
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Orange Blooded [2437]
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Re: Agree. Conference champ only. That makes the entire
Oct 25, 2022, 5:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: Agree. Conference champ only. That makes the entire ] |
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I've been thinking about this exact scenario.
UT beat Alabama. UT loses to Georgia. Bama beats Georgia in the SECCG.
Let's say every game was decided by three points or less. The three teams are virtually as good as each other on any given day.
The conference champion goes, no question.
If Clemson, TCU, and Ohio State/Michigan go undefeated, that's your four, or should be.
Clemson & TCU could both lose a game and still win their respective conference championship. Would the committee leave out a conference champion with a loss in favor of a one-loss SEC team (UGA or UT)? And would that be the right call?
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110%er [7177]
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Re: What you are saying if you want 2 teams from one conference
Oct 25, 2022, 5:33 PM
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clemchem® I agree 100%.
The "narrative" that if this team is strong enough to win "X" conference. Then they surely could beat any team from any other conference.
Twice Clemson has beaten other conference champs for National Championships. Could have easily but for an onsides kick and Mike Williams being hurt - have had another one.
If the conference champ from the rest of the conferences including G5 isn't in contention because of their schedule or because they have a loss: "too bad"!
But, I can see a 8 team playoff deal. Two teams from one conference: "better the odds that the conference with the two teams wins it all"! The real story behind all that is: "then they can go on and brag about coming to that conference if you want Championships or a future in the NFL"! It all feeds the machine. The propaganda machine that is!
It keeps the ball going that X conference is better. Well, not really! Not when you stacked the deck!
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All-In [44044]
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Did you feel this way when both Clemson and Notre Dame were in the playoffs?
Oct 25, 2022, 6:37 PM
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That was 2 ACC teams in the same year.
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Orange Blooded [4596]
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Re: Did you feel this way when both Clemson and Notre Dame were in the playoffs?
Oct 25, 2022, 6:44 PM
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Notre Dame is not in the ACC as a football program. But you knew that.
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