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Legend [19586]
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I am so sick of This PC generation!!
Jan 14, 2015, 3:20 PM
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Is the building racist?
Is the name racist?
Does renaming it solve a #### thing?
No. It doesn't. It's absolutely stupid and silly.
I'm against racism. Always have been. Absolutely hate it. I'm also against trying to erase the past.
So basically nothing should be named using a name of a historic racist? Like I said it is silly. Whether these 80 people want to acknowledge it or not, he played a vital role in Clemson's establishment. His personal life aside.
A better solution would be for Clemson to publicly, in a PR, condemn Tillman as a person, acknowledge his role in Clemson's establishment, and although keeping the Tillman name for legacy reasons to the building and Clemson tradition, officially cut ties between Tillman Hall and the person of Ben Tillman.
Tillman is just a name after all. So what the people really want is for it not to be dedicated to Tillman the person. So would officially saying it is no longer dedicated to him not solve it?
Or is the word Tillman in itself racist?
Of course this wouldn't be enough because these 80 people are on a witch hunt for attention. Nothing more, nothing less.
<\rant>
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Heisman Winner [111575]
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Re: I am so sick of This PC generation!!
Jan 14, 2015, 3:25 PM
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You think Temple University will rename Cosby Hall one day?
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Legend [19586]
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Re: I am so sick of This PC generation!!
Jan 14, 2015, 3:29 PM
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Good point. Doubt it.
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Heisman Winner [111575]
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Re: I am so sick of This PC generation!!
Jan 14, 2015, 3:32 PM
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the Cosby schewl of pharmacology may come under fire too.
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110%er [6474]
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Commissioner [907]
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Re: I am so sick of This PC generation!!
Jan 14, 2015, 10:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: I am so sick of This PC generation!! ] |
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I agree. I don't look at Tillman hall and think of racism. I think of a building which represents our campus. I don't think of some ahole politician.
Renaming the building changes nothing.
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CU Guru [1346]
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Tend to agree with you. But.....
Jan 14, 2015, 3:52 PM
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From "engaging" with a few on Twitter when the demonstration took place I found some aren't angry just because he was vocal about being a supremacist. I'm told he was also open about having participated in the death of more than a few. Don't know the details. But I can certainly see the difference between being a racist like a majority were at the time and actively taking lives. If true.
The silly part is the public face of this effort just cries racist and doesn't get into the details. That's a big reason it may backfire. Also there is this:
http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=16684770
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Tend to agree with you. But.....
Jan 14, 2015, 3:55 PM
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That doesn't change my point. In fact it further makes. Doesn't mater if he was racist, a serial killer, or whatever. The point that I made still remains.
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CU Guru [1346]
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Well, what if you carried it out to the extreme?
Jan 14, 2015, 4:01 PM
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I usually don't do the back on forth on topics not sports related. But since this is tied to my Alma Mater, I get itchy.
Where do you stop with your point? Just curious where you would draw the line. If someone could argue about the good done by some other person who had murdered - say Idi Amin had fed the poor or that "Adolph" guy had done good things, would that justify using the name? Castro? Not saying they are equal, just looking for extreme examples.
My only point was I see where the name Tillman could offend some for reasons beyond his racist viewpoint. You can say it was common to the day, but participation in killing people is a lot different.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Well, what if you carried it out to the extreme?
Jan 14, 2015, 4:08 PM
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We're not talking about naming a building Tillman NOW. We're talking about a building that has been named Tillman for a very long time. If Temple decided they wanted to leave Cosby Hall named Cosby Hall and simply officially cut ties to the person Bill Cosby, that is perfectly ok. The name Cosby never raped anyway.
You're talking apples/oranges. I'm not advocating the purposeful action to name things after bad people. I'm advocating the acknowledgement of history, regardless of whether we like the historic facts or not, and the separation of an ambiguous word from that of a human being for the sake of not participating in silliness that solves nothing.
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Varsity [226]
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Re: Well, what if you carried it out to the extreme?
Jan 15, 2015, 11:17 AM
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I disagree. Buildings/bridges/airports/etc are renamed all the time. The name is not historic, the building is. Rename it after someone we can be proud of. This is the iconic building at Clemson. It is shown in every commercial/advertisement at Clemson. It has only been named Tillman since 1946 when it was renamed Tillman because his son didn't want his fathers legacy lost. I didn't know when I went to Clemson who Tillman was just like I don't know who Sikes was. But now that I do and what he dedicated his life to I don't want his name associated with the iconic building at our University.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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mother earth put a lot african kids up for adoption, maybe
Jan 14, 2015, 3:53 PM
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change her name too?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: mother earth put a lot african kids up for adoption, maybe
Jan 14, 2015, 3:54 PM
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She sounds like a real bich if you axe me
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110%er [6474]
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Re: mother earth put a lot african kids up for adoption, maybe
Jan 14, 2015, 10:12 PM
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Who axksed you?
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CU Guru [1266]
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Re: I am so sick of This PC generation!!
Jan 14, 2015, 4:01 PM
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The sad thing about all of this is that a group of young people that were smart and driven enough to get into Clemson have been hijacked. I don't for a minute believe that this idea was hatched by any one of them. Somewhere in the background is a person or group with an agenda using these young people as their pawns to get their message out. I’m generally not a conspiracy kind of person, but this don't pass the smell test.
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Heisman Winner [111575]
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Re: I am so sick of This PC generation!!
Jan 14, 2015, 4:03 PM
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sharpton is doing a lousy job if he was only able to get 80 people riled up.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: I am so sick of This PC generation!!
Jan 14, 2015, 10:14 PM
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He is probably too worried about his back taxes to do a good job.
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CU Guru [1346]
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Yeah, it has "community organizer" fingerprints on it.
Jan 14, 2015, 4:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: I am so sick of This PC generation!! ] |
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And probably other national organizations behind the scenes.
But the 2 or 3 I was tweeting with when it first happened seemed sincere about their issue with the person Tillman and it wasn't just that he has supremacist views.
But if you want to get beyond smell and find evidence, you only need to look at how common many statements and writings are. I got to that point with my tweeting. When I kept pushing on how a name change improves their life today, in that moment as we were tweeting, the replies were very similar. Like a ######.
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: I am so sick of This PC generation!!
Jan 14, 2015, 9:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: I am so sick of This PC generation!! ] |
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Are you saying it is the fault of....
ESPN and their SEC bias?
FOX News and their far right wing tea party making bias?
Foreign Press and their bias for morose slow art films?
Hollywood and the cadre of men who dictate what movies are made?
Oprah and her bookclub?
Sam Walton and his aim to put main street businesses out of business?
Amazon and Barnes&Noble and their efforts to control publishing?
Battery companies and their collusion to not develop a longer lasting AA battery?
OPEC and their shackling of car owners to the yoyo of oil prices?
A few big Wall St firms and their utter disregard for risk that teeters US economy on a dangerous precipice?
Lawyers... BC they are lawyers?
Say it ain't so Archie!
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CU Guru [1679]
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Re: I am so sick of This PC generation!!
Jan 14, 2015, 4:03 PM
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Well, let's see. Both Washington and Jefferson were slave owners. Guess we need to change the names of the Jefferson Memorial and the Washington Monument. The University of South Carolina has a number of buildings named after plantation owners who owned slaves. I am from Hampton County. And Hampton County is named after Wade Hampton, civil war general, later governor, and renowned racist. I guess we need to re-name the county too. We gots a lotta re-naming to do.
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Oculus Spirit [78888]
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get a Mac then***
Jan 14, 2015, 4:09 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: get a Mac then***
Jan 14, 2015, 4:10 PM
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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I thought he was talking about a PC at first....clicked to
Jan 14, 2015, 4:41 PM
[ in reply to get a Mac then*** ] |
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see what the deal was...
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CU Medallion [64589]
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George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves
Jan 14, 2015, 5:10 PM
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There are countless buildings, streets, cities and towns across the country named after men like George Washington, John Hancock, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin and Robert E. Lee among others, all of whom owned salves.
Should we also change the names of all those things as well?
Where do you draw the line and where does it end?
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CU Guru [1649]
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Re: George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves
Jan 14, 2015, 5:21 PM
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I think that there must be a distinction made between those who owned slaves and those who participated in the lynching of black men. Owning slaves was legal, maybe not moral but legal. Everything that I have read about Tillman was embarrassing. Even the part that he had in establishing our school was done out of an ulterior motive. It would not bother me if the building was renamed, as someone said earlier, it's only a name.
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CU Medallion [64589]
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The name on the building....
Jan 15, 2015, 10:57 AM
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has absolutely nothing to do with Tillman's personal views on any subject.
The building bears his name because without his efforts to lobby the South Carolina General Assembly to create the school as an agricultural institution for the state, and without the tie-breaking votes of Lieutenant Governor William L. Mauldin (for whom the town of Mauldin in Greenville County is named), there would be no Clemson University.
I suspect the founding members of many colleges and universities throughout the southeast have some sort of racist history. Take the University of South Carolina as just one example. Rutledge College, DeSaussure College and McCutchen House all of whihc are located in USC's Horseshoe, are all named after people who strongly supported the protection of slavery. The McCutchen House even housed salves. Some other schools like Brown, Emory and Harvard benefited from their relationship with salvery and were built by the manual labor of slaves and with money made from the salve trade. Are we to make similar changes at those schools as well?
Racism was prominant throughout the country in the 1800's and it seems that this group of concerned students are using the guise of racism to promote what appears to be a fairly self-serving agenda.
It’s not the name on the outside of the building that negatively affects the attitudes of the students inside.
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CU Guru [1692]
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Re: George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves
Jan 15, 2015, 12:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves ] |
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Is lynching black men worse than ###### black slave women? Thomas Jefferson was guilty of the latter. So I mean...no one in that era is clean...
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CU Guru [1482]
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Re: George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves
Jan 15, 2015, 12:26 PM
[ in reply to George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves ] |
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> Where do you draw the line and where does it end?
>
>
Probably somewhere around committing murder and the advocacy of racial genocide.
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110%er [6098]
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Condemn Thomas Clemson and John C Calhoun while your at it
Jan 14, 2015, 10:04 PM
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As well as 90% of all white people living in the 1800's.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Condemn Thomas Clemson and John C Calhoun while your at it
Jan 14, 2015, 10:16 PM
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It will happen. Give it time.
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All-TigerNet [12539]
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've always thought it should be South Carolina Tech in stead
Jan 15, 2015, 12:21 PM
[ in reply to Condemn Thomas Clemson and John C Calhoun while your at it ] |
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of Clemson for that very reason. The only thing I wouldn't like about it is that even though it is a state name, it sounds like a directional school because of the state name. University of South Carolina sounds like a directional school.
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110%er [6031]
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Re: I am so sick of This PC generation!!
Jan 14, 2015, 10:08 PM
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George Washington didn't want to arm black men during the revolution, should we take him off the dollar bill, quarter, and rename hundreds of buildings that were named after him? no.
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CU Medallion [51531]
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If Clemson gives into their demands,
Jan 14, 2015, 10:17 PM
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what will they demand next?
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110%er [6031]
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free
Jan 14, 2015, 10:18 PM
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watermelon and a KFC in the quad........im going to hell
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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Re: If Clemson gives into their demands,
Jan 14, 2015, 10:27 PM
[ in reply to If Clemson gives into their demands, ] |
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Change statue to one of Pat Tillman. Problem solved.
Seriously though Pitchfork Ben was a prikkk, even by southern good ole boy standards. I have no problem removing his name from the school. And I think the rebel flag should fly atop the statehouse and the Citadel should be all male, so this is an exception to my historical ideals. Leave the racist past to places like Ole Miss. Clemson is better than that.
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