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TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks
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TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 7:00 AM

 
Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks

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Ryan, any feel on if


Nov 27, 2022, 7:05 AM

staff changes are coming?

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Lucky Johnson


Re: Ryan, any feel on if


Nov 27, 2022, 9:19 AM

No question we should have pulled DJ in the second quarter; he was done!

Are all the back ups THAT BAD?? Hunter, Hunter, Cade….. DJ was!
Turn overs on special teams killed us with our WEAK passing game….

Make some changes, and move forward…

Go Tigers, Beat UNC!

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Re: Ryan, any feel on if


Nov 27, 2022, 1:53 PM [ in reply to Ryan, any feel on if ]

I'm not paying my ten a year until there are changes.

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Re: Ryan, any feel on if


Nov 27, 2022, 4:02 PM

Oh my they may have to close the program

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 7:12 AM

We have all been making excuses for the last 2 years, but the fact remains that Clemson's identity since Chad Morris was being an effective passing team, and we have not been that for 2 years. It is not the OL fault. They opened holes and Shipley ran well. It is hard to believe that WRU has not had a receiver in the neighborhood of 1000 years in 2 years. It is unfathomable that we could not throw for 100 yards, particularly when one reception went for 59. Take that out and we are less than 2 yds per attempt. That sounds like Frank Howard days. Is it the coaching? We have recruited well enough to have several in the top 5 receivers instead of 1 at # 20. It is time to reassess, and whether it is fair or not, I think all Clemson fans want to see Klubnik get some opportunities. I doubt there are 100 Clemson fans who are hoping DJU comes back next year.

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DJ underperformed, receivers underperformed, OL didn't pass


Nov 27, 2022, 7:16 AM

block worth a flip. They play calling in the second half was abysmal. Ball security has certainly become an issue. I think Dabo needs to take a hard look at the offensive coaches and recruiting. If best is the standard, the O has not delivered for the past two years.

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Re: DJ underperformed, receivers underperformed, OL didn't pass


Nov 27, 2022, 2:23 PM

It’s not “best is the standard.” Its “best buddies is the standard.”

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 7:33 AM [ in reply to Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks ]

The departure of Chad Morris definitely changed the quality of the passing game. The only thing that stay, was the propensity to throw WR bubble screens.

I'm surprised we've recruited quarterbacks as well as we have. Even Trevor didn't progress like one would think. To continue the progression, we need to have a QB coach, and OC that will incorporate more of a pro style passing attack. Where are the designed plays to get specific people open? Our true playmakers need to get the ball in space, to make those missing explosive plays.

The talent is here, but the development is not. Even the DL w 4 & 5* players, is no better than when we were producing NFL starters from 3*

The OL has seen some of the best recruiting ever, but where are they?

It's easy to make coaching changes when they were not your pick. It's hard to make the change when it's someone you care about, but isn't doing the job.

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 7:52 AM

This is exactly it. Everybody wants to blame dj. But the core problems run much deeper. No offensive scheme, game planning, in game adjustments. No ability to develop players. Brent venables took a 3* TE and turned him into an nfl DE. We don’t have anything close to an actual coordinator on offense and haven’t for years.

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 10:50 AM

Go watch DJ play in person. Every defense walks 7-8 in to the box and leaves our receivers in zero coverage. Zero coverage means straight man to man. Zero safety help. QB 101 says to kill a running play and call go routes. Our receivers have done his pretty well. From the stands, you can see two of three even, or one step behind the coverage. DJ stands there, afraid to pull the trigger. If a receiver is even, he’s leavin’! If DJ hits two of those per game, it changes everything. Safeties start to back away from the line and it opens everything up. The run game becomes more effective, bubble screens start working, slants become open, and the offense is diverse. The receivers get tired of working the butts off and not being rewarded; so they stop trying. Hence the spark when Klubnik has come in. TV doesn’t show tight ends running wide open across the middle. Football is a numbers game. When there are 7-8 in the box, you throw the ball. When there are less than 6, run it. Sure, zone blocking, pulling guards and tackles can overcome numbers disadvantage. But, we fail to follow offense 101 because they are trying to hide how bad DJ is. Against lesser talent, DJ can look pretty good at times. Against elite talent and good schemes, he looks like the worst QB in D1.
Nepotism has plagued Clemson for quite some time. Tony Elliot handcuffed the offense. The moment Scott left the numbers decreased dramatically. Goodwin is not a good coordinator. He has a NFL defense playing with poor technique. I screamed in preseason to hire Dan Lanning as defensive coordinator, or ANY coordinator with elite skills. We aren’t afraid to pay top dollar. Go get the best. Same on offense. Pay someone like Joe Brady or go get the hot, big name, proven coordinator. When the best is the standard, you go get the best. Not experiment on unproven developmental projects because you like them. This is a business. Hire the best if you want to be the best.
I don’t think anything in my lifetime has been as puzzling as the DJ debacle. He’s a 5* bust. I’ve been coming to the valley since I was in first grade back in the 1976 football season. My love for Clemson is one of the great loves of my life. Watching DJ has been frustrating to say the least. You can audibly hear the crowd grumble between plays trying to understand what DJ is thinking or seeing. Please fix it, Dabo. 10 wins doesn’t equal best is the standard. I want to compete for the Natty.

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 1:56 PM

It's almost conspiratorial the lengths Clemson has gone to try and hide DJ's failures. It's even more surprising how they made him look like a superstar after GTech but that was only because we had the threat of TEs. That disappeared after one good TE play to start the Syracuse game.

I don't know what is going on nor the obsession Dabo has with DJ, but it is inexplicable that Dabo would rather lose games and hurt all his other players for one player who doesn't have a chance in hell at playing at another P5 school and certainly not the NFL.

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I don't know that I blame DJ for all of this. He certainly


Nov 27, 2022, 2:03 PM [ in reply to Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks ]

has his issues. He doesn't anticipate like Trevor did. He knew where his guy was going and would throw it to the guy FIXING to be open. We have open receivers. DJ doesn't see them and throws to an under guy.

Trevor and the great receivers he had covered up a lot of the offensive scheme problems. LOTS of 3rd and 8 or more when Trevor was there but TL throwing to Higgins/Rodgers/Renfrow etc erased a lot of them.

DW benefitted from stud receivers and a scheme that got them OPEN. Less 50/50 with him, but likewise Williams and Leggett and Renfrow could make plays. I don't think he anticipated as well as TL, but certainly better than DJ.

So a QB that's not as good with a scheme that's not as good with receivers that aren't as good. That does not beat too many good teams!

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 2:14 PM [ in reply to Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks ]

There will not be any changes. Dabo wants to lose, he’s making all these $$$$$.If he gets fired look at the money he will leave with.

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 2:30 PM

I don’t think he wants to lose. I think he’s one of the most stubborn people you’ll ever meet. And if he fires Streeter, Grisham and Goodwin he’s admitting he made a mistake. I actually checked his staff’s bios and I believe there is only 1 (definitely no more than 2) coach that didn’t either play with Dabo at Alabama or played for him at Clemson. That sounds like you’re just hiring your buddies.

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Yes streeter there were other people to blame


Nov 27, 2022, 7:27 AM

Like you. This offense is awkward and ineffective. It has no sense of urgency or understanding of situational importance. Perhaps the change needs to come from your position.
GO TIGERS!

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Re: Yes streeter there were other people to blame


Nov 27, 2022, 9:49 AM

Throughout the history of sports and coaching, when a coach makes excuses, he is the problem, and Brandon made excuses for the player that he coached from the time DJ came to Clemson, he has failed as a QB coach, and now he is failing at both his jobs as OC and QB coach, he is full of excuses and he gets angry when he is questioned about the failure on the offensive side of the ball!!!

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 7:48 AM

The vaunted defense thats all I have heard since spring got torched again. Coaches won't give Klubnik a chance, the offense has much more energy when he's in. Sitting him the entire game especially when DJ was melting in the second half? That's telling him the coaches think DJ is the better QB. I don't think the kid could have done any worse then DJ and at least would have brought energy to a flailing offense. 3 years in the system and he still can't grasp it? Their at serious risk of losing Klubnik to the portal if things don't change and, Shipley their best player is having serious doubts about the coaching. I hope Dabo can finally wake up and see some serious changes are needed before it really starts to spiral out of control.

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 2:22 PM

I don’t care about past history. Past history doesn’t win games. Now I don’t care about remaining games. What I do care about is changes. Until Clemson makes changes you will have what you have now or worse.

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 8:13 AM

Ryan,

The problems with you and all other young fans is complacency and assumption. Yes we lost a game, a big game, but the game is not what it used to be because we had won 7 in a row and the assumption was we would win because that is what we do. We have had a great run of years with 10 wins and that continued this season and that is great. Fans just have a hard time understanding how we lose games but there might only be 1 undefeated this year and we are just not in that category.

The other assumption is that just because we beat a team last year we will beat them next year. I don't know why or how but after the first 10 games this year, something finally clicked and South Carolina became a team. We assume that since they have not had a good coach since Spurrier, that South Carolina will always be that team. We do not want to believe it but Coach Beamer is young, energetic and knows what he is doing. If we are complacent and think that just because we had Watson, Simmons, Etienne and Lawrence we will continue to live on that wealth, we are going to be disappointed. We will get dressed and go to church this morning like we do every week but yesterday was a rude wakeup call for us, for Dabo, our coaches and players. One hard and fast rule in business is if you don't adapt, change and grow, you will fail. Dabo sees Lincoln Riley have 19 transfers at USC and I hope he woke up this morning and understands he has to adapt and change to continue our run.

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Shut up***


Nov 27, 2022, 2:02 PM



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Anyone Remember 1993?


Nov 27, 2022, 8:25 AM

That was another ‘good year’. Despite 9-3, and even beating the coots, Tiger fans knew something wasn’t right and they were not competitive against good teams. The Ford Era players were gone. Hatfield bore the brunt, and rightly so, but 1994 fully exposed the rot and we know the rest of the story. This year is not 2017. I’m low-key a little afraid 2023 may be 1994 even if we change OC. No one likes to change the way they do business but Dabo must recognize the player/coach dynamic has changed much like the employee/employer relationship changed in the 80s. it is much more like the pro game now, and getting worse. It no longer takes 3 or 4 years to build a team; it also no longer takes 3 or 4 years to lose one. Skalski, Turner, Spector took the last vestiges of 2015-2019 with them.

Back to the 80s - Many thought America was finished and Japan was the new economic superpower. But America remade its economy, Japan stayed put, and we have dominated since then. (See also’Nick Saban’). Does Dabo have it in him to remodel and start back up the mountain?

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 9:24 AM

ha win 8 out of 10 that is a joke. The game should not have been that close. The game was in control in the 3rd quarter and 28 points swung in Clemson's favor. The better team won yesterday and playing it another 10 games would not have changed anything.

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 1:33 PM

Clemson led most of the game. Eliminate the TO’s and the game was not close. Run the ball and the game would not have been close. 14-0 came rather quick. Not sure if it would be 8 out 10 but they would definitely win more than they would lose.

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MEG


Same could be said for them. They had a pick 6


Nov 27, 2022, 2:55 PM

and we’re morons and threw the ball for a pick on first and goal at the one. “Eliminate the TOS and game was not close” for them as well. Had multiple chances to win and couldn’t close.

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 9:27 AM

I did not take the time to read the article , the headline was enough.
Clemson lost a ball game, it happens.
They had won 40 games in a row at Death Valley . 59-1 and people are acting like they never won a game.
The way that DJU has been treated by Clemson fans is sad and embarrassing! The things so called Clemson fans are saying about the coaches including Dabo is shameful! Yeah I know I will get torched for this but I don’t care. I chose to be A Clemson fan because they were different , they were about friends and family and Clemson Gentleman and sportsmanship! Well over the last 2 years far to many people are just spoiled and entitled! It makes me sad!

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 11:13 AM

If Dabo had that mindset back in the day, he would have never fired Steele and hired Venables after the Orange Bowl debacle. You would’ve just chalked it up to one bad game in an otherwise good season. Moving along here. No need to dig any deeper. What is so bad about demanding a coaching staff deliver on the millions they are paid each year? If you can’t see that their problems run much deeper than one game, that’s on you. Heck, our HBC started the mantra Best is the Standard. The fans didn’t.

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A lot of T-Netters owe you an apology Ryan. There was


Nov 27, 2022, 9:50 AM

nothing malicious about the article you wrote early in the week. The concerns you touched on are more founded than ever. Yet many on this site were downright nasty in their responses.

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 10:13 AM

Well all streaks end at some point but these should not have ended yesterday. Removing partisan politics, I said last year that Beamer would turn the Coots arounds and reminded me of a young Dabo and he has certainly showed that the way he ended the year. This was bad for us yesterday as he and his staff showed how to win with lesser talent and better coaching but in the end a stronger SC is good for us and the rivalry which had virtually ceased to exist - it had become a given that we would win this game and win it easily - look at the score predictions all over.
The problem is whether we (aka Dabo) will respond with the right coaching and player moves. Just ask yourself if Saban was our coach this year, whether Cade would have been developed and had some opportunities. This is not a game issue but a practice issue. I believe the coaches now that putting him in may not have helped on one of those days (ND as we saw or SC) but that is a development problem not a game decision problem. Watching the small sample size he did not progress and that can only be blamed on the coaches. I suspect that felt that they had to give DJ every single rep possible in order to help him and in the end may have set Cade back a year. Let's just hope he doesn't try to catch up elsewhere.
Did you watch USC - yes, the real USC and see where their productivity came from? Simply put, it came from NIL. I don't like the "NFL mentality" of it but it is here to stay. Can we be a "nice" and "good" team without it and win 10 games and compete annually for the Championship of the worst league in Power Five? Probably but we are from elite now and will only dip further if we don't adapt to the new world. Is "BEST" really the standard or is being "good" good enough? The next couple of months will answer that question.

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 11:31 AM

We will soon see if Dabo concludes that the DJ Era is over, as of Saturday. (A starting QB for an elite team completes only 33% of his passes?). We will see if Dabo starts Cade next week. Ditto in the Whatsit Bowl that we are now relegated to playing in. Dabo Swinney has done a great job of building a program that we could only dream about in the Bowden days. This program needs to be retooled. We need some big-league coordinators, for starters. We also need to face the new landscape in college football. Beamer used the Portal to get several key players, including Rattler, and this was a different team from the one we beat 30-0 a year ago. Venables left Goodwin a very experienced defense that, with a couple of major exceptions, played some good ball this year. But thanks to our inconsistent offense, they were on the field way too much. As for Streeter, he has never shown the creative play-calling that we saw from the Carolina OC on Saturday. But then, given how limited DJ is, just how creative can Streeter be? Elliott struggled with the same handicap. But, as with Goodwin, Streeter may not be up to being a coordinator at this level. So here is the key question: Is Dabo willing to replace coaches who give him 100% loyalty because he groomed and promoted them?

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I'll be shocked if Dabo starts Klubnik or fires coordinators


Nov 27, 2022, 1:03 PM

I think Dabo is too loyal to DJ, Streeter & Goodwin, and too disloyal to everyone else. Too much hubris. I don't see Dabo admitting that he was wrong. I hope I'm wrong about that.

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 1:07 PM [ in reply to Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks ]

Correction re my earlier post: DJ completed only 28% of his pass attempts against South Carolina, not 33%. You know, we have to acknowledge that his inconsistent—often awful—play over the last two years has to really hurt for a young man who seems like a fine person, and a hard-working competitor. Nobody feels worse about losing to Carolina than DJ. But the bigger issue is the coaches’ failure to get Cade more playing time, because if he is not the starter next year, then we really do have to question the sanity of our coaching staff. If you start Cade against UNC, and in the Whatsit Bowl after that, even if he struggles and makes mistakes, it still sends a clear message to DJ. Your time as QB for Clemson is over, fine young man. We want DJ using the Portal, not Cade.

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 1:58 PM [ in reply to Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks ]

I'm convinced Dabo would start DJ in an 0-12 season.

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Re: TNET: Stats & Storylines: Disaster in Death Valley, Clemson falls to Gamecocks


Nov 27, 2022, 11:50 AM

Here is another person trying to place blame for the loss and he is wrong. He is trying to blame the receivers for dropped passes, and, they did drop too many . However, The Qb missed our receivers by 10 -15 yards on many more occasions than dropped passes. The loss lies totally on the QB, who I hear was injured, Coach Swinney for gross ineffective coaching, plus not replacing BJ, and Coach Goodwin for terrible play calling. Not near enough blitzes. The D rarely, and I mean rarely, affected Rattler's freedom to throw to many wide open receivers. He had too much time. I am very disgusted at such ineptitude to call a variety of Offensive plays as was used in the Syracuse and Louisville games. It's like Swinney went Brain Dead. Yes, he is on record to as calling 50% of the Off. plays.

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