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Replies: 14
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CU Medallion [65037]
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This post will be flamed for sure. I am in no way advocating
Apr 2, 2021, 8:34 AM
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for George Floyd. He was a criminal, but he still did not deserve dying the way he did. The point I am about to make, will certainly also be made by the lawyers representing his interests, if they are competent at all. It is becoming clear that a major part of Mr. Chauvin's defense will be that Floyd died of a drug overdose, not of his strangulation by kneeling on him. A large amount of opioids were found in Floyd's system. So much so, they apparently have Doctors willing to testify that he would have been classed as an OD death, if he had died on that day, just from that.
But, there is one very compelling argument against that, and I am sure Mr. Chauvin's lawyers will make it. Long term opioid users develop a tolerence for the drugs, and have to take ever increasing doses to get the same "effect". I know this for a fact, I have been on the "weakest" version of them, hydrocodone, for over thirty years, for chronic back pain.
So, a dose that very well could kill a non-user, could easily be tolerated by a long term user who has built up a tolerance. That is a point that should be remembered by all, if the defense tries to use this as an "out" to get their client acquitted, which they certainly will try to do.
In many cases, what kills "recreational" users is going back to their previous "dose" amount after having been off the drugs for awhile, and the tolerance has disappeared. NCIS recently had a show about that, when Fornell's daughter OD'ed and died in exactly that manner.
I don't like having to use opioids, but they are MADE for exactly a situation like mine. My use of them could never be described as recreational, and is self limiting, (at least to me) due to unwanted side effects. Opioids themselves are not the problem. Abuse of them IS. Anyone who has ever had to live with constant pain, and found relief via a legal opioid prescription, is not going to be among those out there flapping their gums about an "Opioid Epidemic". There is no more of a legal opioid epidemic than there is a legal gun epidemic. In both cases, it is the illegal use of them that is the issue. Think about that as this George Floyd death trial goes on, one way or the other.
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All-In [40100]
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I agree with most of what you say. I haven’t witnessed all the court
Apr 2, 2021, 8:57 AM
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Has to view, but based on what I’ve seen, his death was certainly at least hastened by the police officer. No way he should still be kneeling on the guys neck when he’s unconscious and even then probably much sooner if ever. The problem with opioids are multiple. Yes, there are people that use responsibly. No doubt. But it is a drug that we know is highly addictive. And the companies making them were incentivizing doctors to prescribe more. Giving them trips, public speaking engagements, kick backs. Nothing goes more against my core of ethics as a physician than that. I use them primarily after surgery as I believe that is the best use but even then is when some unfortunately get addicted. And then I have a few, only a few, who are like you and use the same dose month in month out, never “lose them, or “have them stolen”. I guess what I’m saying is there is a use but are very easy to misuse and even tempting to those who have substance abuse issues. That and a blind eye for years to an industry who didn’t necessarily care if they were being misused as long as more and more were being sold. And while I’m not perfect and have I’m sure been duped by people I am disgusted by the doctors and pharmacists who ran pill mills and made money off of this. And yes I know a doctor and a pharmacist personally who will never practice again and one of them is doing time for that very thing.
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CU Medallion [65037]
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And, I'd be right there with you saying that pill mill docs
Apr 2, 2021, 9:04 AM
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should be put away. But, the government has never shown an ability to do anything rationally. So, my fear is that they just summarily ban ALL opioids, and then, people like me will be in trouble.
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CU Medallion [55333]
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Re: And, I'd be right there with you saying that pill mill docs
Apr 2, 2021, 9:48 AM
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I have no doubt what so ever, if there wasn't anything to help with the extreme, very excruciating pain in my back, hip, and legs that I suffer through everyday of my life, I couldn't bare the pain, and I would end my life!!! A person just can't handle that kind of pain without any relief, and opioids do give some relief to that kind of pain!!!!
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Recruit [90]
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Re: This post will be flamed for sure. I am in no way advocating
Apr 2, 2021, 9:04 AM
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Washington DC to Boston on Acela. 440 miles. 6 hours 40 minutes.
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CU Medallion [50558]
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Have had my share of those in the last 7 days
Apr 2, 2021, 9:05 AM
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They got me through the worst of the kidney stone- would have been unbearable without them. Didn’t take doses as large or as often as allowed & have quite a few left over- guess that’s where over prescribing can start a problem
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All-In [27297]
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Re: This post will be flamed for sure. I am in no way advocating
Apr 2, 2021, 9:17 AM
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I don’t think he’s guilty of murder. But he may be guilty of manslaughter. He was trained to roll offenders on their sides to help breathing. He knew being handcuffed and on your chest for a long period of time time can result in compromised breathing. He also knew that once a resisting person stops resisting that it’s time to let up. Idk what was going through the guys head after Floyd went unconscious but the officer should have rolled him over and checked for medical attention. It’s what he was trained to due.
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CU Medallion [55333]
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Re: This post will be flamed for sure. I am in no way advocating
Apr 2, 2021, 9:37 AM
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The law states that once you have a suspect restrained by being handcuffed, they are no longer a serious threat to anyone, and all aggression toward the suspect must end. Plus medical science states, tying or handcuffing a person's hands behind their back, and keeping them face down on their stomach can, and will cause suffocation that leads to cardiac arrest. Double those chance with a knee pressing down on the back of your neck, and in your back.
All cops involved with what was happening to George Floyd after he was cuffed, they all should be arrested, and tried for voluntary manslaughter. Every cop that walked by, and saw what was being done to Floyd, and done nothing to save that man's life should be charged. I believe that the law of, a hand of one, is the hands of all is justified in the George Floyd arrest!!!
Yes George Floyd was criminal breaking the law, but the crimes that he was being arrested for, none of them is punishable by death!!!!!
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Oculus Spirit [96812]
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Re: This post will be flamed for sure. I am in no way advocating
Apr 2, 2021, 9:41 AM
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Commissioner [923]
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It's pretty simple, don't commit crimes and don't resist..
Apr 2, 2021, 9:51 AM
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It's pretty simple, don't commit crimes and don't resist arrest.
These situations would not be happening. If you are committing crimes, then don't resist arrest.
Why is this not being preached?
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Orange Blooded [3513]
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Passing funny money and resisting arrest
Apr 2, 2021, 1:33 PM
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are still no reason to end up dead in the custody of the police. There should be no safer place than in police custody, especially if restrained and vulnerable. At that point, your life is in their hands...and they should take that responsibility seriously. Police take an oath to “Protect the weak, defenseless, helpless, and fight for the general welfare of all.” This includes those under arrest.
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Orange Blooded [2033]
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I think it is difficult for a jury not to convict
Apr 2, 2021, 9:54 AM
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for manslaughter. I think the evidence is substantial. The cops did not follow procedure and should be punished. As far as the drug issue, if it has not been video taped and if it had not had the amount of press that it got then the cops may have gotten away with a lesser punishment. Two big takeaways for me are if you are being arrested and you resist the cops jobs are even more difficult going forward. Second, you are an idiot if you want to be a cop in a large city. Large American cities are simply going to be less safe in the future.
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Standout [326]
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Re: I think it is difficult for a jury not to convict
Apr 2, 2021, 12:33 PM
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Any reasonable doubt.You must find not guilty, How can there be NO doubt. Not murder,but manslaughter.
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CU Medallion [65037]
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That word "reasonable" is big. He does not have to be found
Apr 2, 2021, 1:44 PM
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guilty beyond ANY doubt. Only beyond the doubt that a reasonable person would have looking at the evidence. The way I have read about state law in Minnesota, the prosecution does not have to prove that he INTENTIONALLY caused Floyd's death, only that his actions caused the death. Hence the defense doing all they can to convince the jury that drugs in Floyd's system actually caused his death, or were a major contributing factor. Per that standard, I would have to find him guilty, were I on the jury. I don't care if you are on drugs or not, someone cuts off your air supply for over eight minutes, you are going to die.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: This post will be flamed for sure. I am in no way advocating
Apr 2, 2021, 1:48 PM
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I like law enforcement, but I hope this officer get 2nd degree manslaughter.
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