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110%er [6153]
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There should be two goals every year for Clemson basketball
Mar 18, 2022, 7:30 AM
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1. Finish in the top 4 in the conference regular season
2. Win the ACC Tournament
If you do the first you help yourself with favorable seeding in the tourney. Making the NCAAs shouldn’t be a goal because it’s out of your control based on this and that number. If you pursue goals 1 and 2 you will find yourself in the NCAA tourney at least half the time. And as we all know it won’t happen with the guy in the job right now.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: There should be two goals every year for Clemson basketball
Mar 18, 2022, 7:55 AM
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Actually you do not need to win the ACC tournament to get in or even finish in the top 4,which is most unlikely considering the likes of Duke, UNC, Notre Dame and Virginia being the top of the heap year in and year out. It would help avoiding a play in game, or losing the first or ,even second round games.
However, if you look at being top 7,out of the 15 teams, and win 20 or more games ,regular season ,and conference play, you stand a good chance of being considered for the Big Dance,or worse case the NIT.
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110%er [7929]
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Re: There should be two goals every year for Clemson basketball
Mar 18, 2022, 8:13 AM
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1. Finish in the top 4 in the conference regular season
2. Win the ACC Tournament
If you do the first you help yourself with favorable seeding in the tourney. Making the NCAAs shouldn’t be a goal because it’s out of your control based on this and that number. If you pursue goals 1 and 2 you will find yourself in the NCAA tourney at least half the time. And as we all know it won’t happen with the guy in the job right now.
So you want goals which are at a level never achieved at Clemson. Through a hundred years and multiple coaches we have never been a top four ACC team or win the ACC T. So given the enhanced goals you want what do we need to do to achieve it? Maybe we need a new coach but if that is the only thing we change it is guaranteed we will not meet your stated goal.
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Legend [19356]
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Re: There should be two goals every year for Clemson basketball
Mar 18, 2022, 8:18 AM
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Yes. We want goals higher than the poor performance we have experienced for a hundred years. What do we need to get there? A coach.
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110%er [7929]
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Re: There should be two goals every year for Clemson basketball
Mar 18, 2022, 8:40 AM
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Yes. We want goals higher than the poor performance we have experienced for a hundred years. What do we need to get there? A coach.
Over the hundred years we have had many coaches yet none of them have been able to meet the goals stated above. So it seems silly (at best) to me that you believe changing something that has already been changed multiple times over the years will do the trick. Is it your contention that we have always hired the wrong coach and somehow this next hire will have the secret sauce to make it happen?
Seems to me that if changing the same variable multiple times has not given the desired results a reasonable person would want to try changing a different variable.
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All-In [40098]
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Same old tired arguments. Yes our history hasn’t been great. Yes weve
Mar 18, 2022, 8:45 AM
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Cycled through coaches in the past. But it’s ok to want and expect more. And coach has been there 12 years now. 12 freaking years.
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Letterman [256]
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Re: Same old tired arguments. Yes our history hasn’t been great. Yes weve
Mar 18, 2022, 8:49 AM
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You're right. It's ok to expect more, but why do you think, after 100 years, simply hiring another coach is going to be the difference?
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All-In [40098]
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I never said simply firing a coach. But giving him more money and facilities
Mar 18, 2022, 10:45 AM
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Is doubling down on a bad investment. Let’s face it he’s here another year. But if next year is the same then part of the package should be his fired. And give someone else more of an investment. At some point you have to prove your worth the investment to get a larger investment. Dabo always had great facilities but when did he get the best facilities, after he showed the program is productive and worth more investment.
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Letterman [256]
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Re: I never said simply firing a coach. But giving him more money and facilities
Mar 21, 2022, 8:53 AM
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I don't disagree here. I think from top to bottom, this should be his best roster.
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110%er [7929]
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Re: Same old tired arguments. Yes our history hasn’t been great. Yes weve
Mar 18, 2022, 9:10 AM
[ in reply to Same old tired arguments. Yes our history hasn’t been great. Yes weve ] |
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Cycled through coaches in the past. But it’s ok to want and expect more. And coach has been there 12 years now. 12 freaking years.
The first four years spend rebuilding a roster based on a different style of play and trying to hide a facility which was slated to be demolished. The next couple preparing to play in Greenville . In year seven we finally had a decent facility to show recruits. Not an elite facility like football but decent. Since then the wins and recruiting have improved. Yes this past year was a disappointment but should not cloud the progress made in the last five years.
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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Re: Same old tired arguments. Yes our history hasn’t been great. Yes weve
Mar 18, 2022, 9:40 AM
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Progress in the past 5?
Brad is 2 games over .500 in the ACC the past 5 years.
Brad went to 2 ncaa the past 5 years.
The last 5 before BB took over.
OP was 4 games over .500.
OP went to 3 ncaa.
According to you, it took Brad 4 years to cycle thru the different style, thus an excuse why he was losing (well, after he went to the ncaa with OP players). So, really, BB has made the ncaa twice with his players.
According to you, BB could not win and this had excuse for his first 7 years due to Littlejohn. He same Littlejohn that OP teams played in and went to 3 straight (plus 1) ncaa tourneys. It must have really deteriorated the day OP left.
All excuses, but no reasons other than our coach not getting the job done. It does not make him a bad person, it simply makes him not the coach to take Clemson to the next level.
So, even with a better LJ, and this great success you discuss , BB record is still not as good as OP - how is that progress?
12 years is enough to clearly understand what someone can and cannot do.
What I don’t understand is why people continue to defend and want Clemson to stay in the bottom of the ACC and nationally.
Even if next season - BB wins some and we go to the dance - it does not make him a great coach. It is one year out of 13. We know what normal will be.
If I birdie the last hole playing today - it does not mean I can compete with pro golfers. It means I had a birdie on 18.
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Orange Blooded [3212]
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All-In [40098]
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Yes we want our goals to be higher than what we’ve achieved.
Mar 18, 2022, 8:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: There should be two goals every year for Clemson basketball ] |
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That is how goals work. Many people actually thrive to do better. Now I think perennial top 4 is a bit much but tournament most years, occasional top 4 in acc, and maybe a final four. Dare I dream it—a NC one day?? And yes I am willing to change more than just the coach to get there. But it’s a cycle. If I invest more, I expect more. If coach/team performs more, then there is more investment. People are bad fans I’d they don’t go when the team is down. And I understand a fair weather fan. But it also is a cycle. Give a product worth watching, more will come and more money, then maybe that gets us better play. It’s not all on one side.
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Oculus Spirit [96792]
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Heisman Winner [139868]
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110%er [5465]
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110%er [6977]
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110%er [8518]
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Re: There should be two goals every year for Clemson basketball
Mar 18, 2022, 8:13 AM
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Are you naive enough to think we do not have goals for basketball? Shots have to go in on a regular basis and when they do any team can win.
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CU Medallion [67683]
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Re: There should be two goals every year for Clemson basketball
Mar 18, 2022, 8:45 AM
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Yes and those goals should be at each end of the court
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Letterman [256]
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Re: There should be two goals every year for Clemson basketball
Mar 18, 2022, 8:47 AM
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Based on this, Clemson would be in the NCAAT every year. I hope you are willing to either increase you donation or shift funds from other sports, like football, to ensure that Clemson basketball has what it needs to accomplish your goals.
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110%er [5465]
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Re: There should be two goals every year for Clemson basketball
Mar 18, 2022, 9:08 AM
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The goal should be top 25 every year. The minimum acceptable level of performance should to make the 68team playoff. There are 3 ways to make the tourney:
Win the acc tourney
Win the acc regular season
Be ranked in top25 with a good record
Look at the bracket and you could easily pick upwards of 40-50 teams less deserving of tournament standing than our well known University. It is time to quit accepting sub mediocre performance from our basketball program. Enough talk about the past let’s get a coach who wants to take us places we have not been. And that goes for the admin too.
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110%er [7929]
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Re: There should be two goals every year for Clemson basketball
Mar 18, 2022, 9:13 AM
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The goal should be top 25 every year. The minimum acceptable level of performance should to make the 68team playoff. There are 3 ways to make the tourney:
Win the acc tourney
Win the acc regular season
Be ranked in top25 with a good record
Look at the bracket and you could easily pick upwards of 40-50 teams less deserving of tournament standing than our well known University. It is time to quit accepting sub mediocre performance from our basketball program. Enough talk about the past let’s get a coach who wants to take us places we have not been. And that goes for the admin too.
Once again you seem to be living in a different reality than the rest of us. How are other teams less deserving than Clemson given our hundred year history? Over those hundred years we have never done squat but had multiple coaches. Seems odd you want to blame the coach yet this coach has accomplished as much or more than any other coach yet this is the only variable you want to change?
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110%er [5465]
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Re: There should be two goals every year for Clemson basketball
Mar 18, 2022, 9:54 AM
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Judge, you are really becoming active again! But you are still defending the past and not looking to the future.
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Orange Blooded [3921]
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Re: There should be two goals every year for Clemson basketball
Mar 18, 2022, 9:19 AM
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1. provide side entertainment until Dabo's spring practice
2. provide an excuse to travel to campus and look at coeds
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CU Medallion [64972]
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Mail-Arky. The NCAA Tourney should be the goal EVERY year.
Mar 18, 2022, 9:20 AM
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SIXTY EIGHT teams make it every year. There is no reason on God's Green Earth that Clemson, sitting in what for years was considered the best basketball conference in the country, should not be one of those 68 each year. The only reason we are not there is that we have accepted failure and mediocrity for far too long.
I had hopes that the new AD Neff would break this trend, but instead, he gives Brown_L yet one more last chance. And, probably similar language will be used after next season to stretch the futility out even farther.
Recent upsets in the NCAA Tourney kind of throw cold water all over that "we must spend more money on basketball to have success" hubris. You are either capable of doing what is necessary to be successful, or you aren't. If you don't provide your best coaching unless you get paid top dollar, then you aren't worth Chickensh!t.
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110%er [5465]
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Re: Mail-Arky. The NCAA Tourney should be the goal EVERY year.
Mar 18, 2022, 9:57 AM
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AMEN a thousand times over. Thank you. I have preached this for several years but only get TD'ed to death by JK's army.
1,000 TU's for you if I could.
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110%er [7929]
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Re: Mail-Arky. The NCAA Tourney should be the goal EVERY year.
Mar 18, 2022, 9:58 AM
[ in reply to Mail-Arky. The NCAA Tourney should be the goal EVERY year. ] |
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Except it has never happened and there is a reason it has never happened. So instead of whining or pitching a fit a reasonable person would ask what were the barriers and build a plan to remove them. Given the HC has changed a number of times over the years with the same result a sane person would conclude that the HC is not the primary barrier.
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110%er [5465]
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Re: Mail-Arky. The NCAA Tourney should be the goal EVERY year.
Mar 10, 2024, 8:41 AM
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Our administration needs to move away from the past. A new coach is a piece of that.
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Orange Blooded [3212]
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Re: Mail-Arky. The NCAA Tourney should be the goal EVERY year.
Mar 18, 2022, 11:01 AM
[ in reply to Re: Mail-Arky. The NCAA Tourney should be the goal EVERY year. ] |
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What's with your loser mentality? No one cares that we have decades of average to less than average results. What everyone is saying is we want better. We can be better. But we won't be better consistently with CBB, that has been proven. The guy is just good enough to stave off being fired by making the tournament on occasion. An outliner sweet 16 year should not be a basis for holding on to the guy. 12 years and no uptick in consistency.
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Letterman [256]
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Re: Mail-Arky. The NCAA Tourney should be the goal EVERY year.
Mar 21, 2022, 12:25 PM
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You're definition of "proven" is far different than mine. You're speculating that it won't get better.
I think everyone wants to be better. We just disagree as to what it takes to get there.
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Letterman [256]
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Best 68 don't make the NCAAT
Mar 18, 2022, 10:50 AM
[ in reply to Mail-Arky. The NCAA Tourney should be the goal EVERY year. ] |
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The best 68 teams don't go to the NCAAT. If that was the case, I would agree with you. There are 32 automatic bids and 36 at large teams. How many of the automatic bids would've been included if it was the top 68? VT would not have made the tournament.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: There should be two goals every year for Clemson basketball
Mar 18, 2022, 10:03 AM
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UNC has done that:
top 4 in ACC: 2022, 2019, 2017
win ACC: nope. Not since 2016.
Clemson has been among the top 4 twice in that span (and yes I am counting 2021 there due to schedule differences).
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All-TigerNet [11428]
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110%er [7157]
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and just how many times has that happened in our history?
Mar 18, 2022, 10:37 AM
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you gotta get real. If thats the expectation then good luck finding a coach that feels like that is a possibility. I you finish in the top 4 once in 10 years here you're legendary.
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Heisman Winner [139868]
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Well...
Mar 18, 2022, 10:40 AM
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It's a lot easier to hit two goals when you have 6 players on the court.
I kid.
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Commissioner [905]
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Re: There should be two goals every year for Clemson basketball
Mar 21, 2022, 1:49 PM
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1. Beat SC
2. Be the ACC team no one wants to play.
Everything else will take care of itself.
Right now we are the team to play to get healthy and there’s zero fear of Littlejohn. Until those 2 things change we ain’t ever doing much better.
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Letterman [256]
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Re: There should be two goals every year for Clemson basketball
Mar 22, 2022, 9:10 AM
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Do you really think teams like playing Clemson? I mean, seriously. Brownell teams play hard for 40 minutes. Even if they fall behind like against VT, they don't quit. No coach/team wants to play against someone that plays hard for 40 minutes.
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Orange Blooded [2454]
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Re: There should be two goals every year for Clemson basketball
Mar 21, 2022, 1:55 PM
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If you win the ACC tourney, you will be in the NCAA 100% of the time. Automatic bid.
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