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Senior Writer [∞]
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Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 10:38 AM
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I heard Todd Blackledge was complaining about the Clemson offense's predictability during the Saturday game, so I went back and charted it. Then looked at Pro Football Focus and StatBroadcast to make sure.
Clemson had 13 drives against the Gamecocks. So that's 13 first plays of drives. There were 12 runs, nine to the middle and three to the left. One pass.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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careful DH, the pumpers out for blood today.....
Dec 1, 2022, 10:40 AM
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getting mighty close to calling out the playcalling.
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Walk-On [109]
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Re: careful DH, the pumpers out for blood today.....
Dec 1, 2022, 11:37 AM
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So 12 runs plays on first down. Who has the yardage gain / lost on these runs? Obviously, if the plays worked there would be no issues with the strategery.
Would also be nice to see the breakdown of the 9 up the gut vs 3 to the left.
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All-In [27180]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 10:41 AM
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Thanks David for validating what I've been yelling about for the last week: the play calling is trash. Streeter's basically handing the game to the coots with that kind of play calling. I don't understand what Streeter is doing/thinking. We need a change at OC.
NINE FREAKING RUNS UP THE A-GAP FOR NO GAIN, BY THE WAY.
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Orange Blooded [3865]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 10:47 AM
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Thanks David for validating what I've been yelling about for the last week: the play calling is trash. Streeter's basically handing the game to the coots with that kind of play calling. I don't understand what Streeter is doing/thinking. We need a change at OC.
NINE FREAKING RUNS UP THE A-GAP FOR NO GAIN, BY THE WAY.
You mean Dabo since he calls the MAJORITY of the Plays!
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Legend [15749]
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Where did this information come from?
Dec 1, 2022, 12:56 PM
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Dabo plays the majority of plays? Do you have a source for that?
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Walk-On [109]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 11:42 AM
[ in reply to Re: Offense predictability ] |
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Maybe it was a Battle of Wits.
There is no way the Coots would think we would run the ball up the middle on the 9th time after failing 8 times previously. I can definitely sympathize with this thinking.
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Orange Blooded [2368]
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Average was right at 4 yards. I’ll take it.
Dec 1, 2022, 11:43 AM
[ in reply to Re: Offense predictability ] |
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The issue with our offense is when we tried to catch USUC on 1st down with play action, either DJ missed the throws or our protection didn’t hold up (or DJ took too much time).
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Orange Blooded [2112]
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Re: Average was right at 4 yards. I’ll take it.
Dec 1, 2022, 1:15 PM
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Exactly this. Predictability isn't an issue if you're successful. DJ is the problem, 90 percent of it anyway.
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CU Guru [1020]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 1:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: Offense predictability ] |
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This better change before Saturday night or well lose to UNC.
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Freshman [7]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 1:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: Offense predictability ] |
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Dabo is on the headset the whole game! If he is having to help call plays, then he can not do his job and manage the game! Maybe that is why he can't see what is going on in the game? If he needs to be on the headset, he does not have the right people in the job! How often is Nick Saban on the headset? Only when things are on the wrong track!
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All-In [30824]
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thanks DH.. im sure the dumpers will make full use of this***
Dec 1, 2022, 10:43 AM
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110%er [6858]
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Im sure the pumpers will *try* to spin this....***
Dec 1, 2022, 10:51 AM
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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All-In [30824]
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sure .. 6.4 yards per carry.***
Dec 1, 2022, 11:10 AM
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Orange Blooded [3637]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 10:45 AM
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Morgan Thomas noted that in the 4th quarter our drives were almost exclusively:
Run Pass Pass Punt
Run Pass Pass Punt
etc...
But we probably don't have a clue I guess...
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Orange Blooded [3945]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 10:49 AM
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This is my main issue with our current predicaments David. I feel like the number one issue we have is play calling and I hate that Streeter is getting the brunt of frustration from the fans because I think a lot of this has to do with Dabo (see him holding play calling sheet and barking into th headphones the entire time we are on offense). It's like the tunnel screens against Notre dame. The runs up the middle against the gamecocks were absolutely ridiculous just like the repeated tunnel screens against ND. Someone posted an article recently and one of the things in that article was the notion that we were calling plays based on a defensive set that we were seeing. If the defense shows this we are going to call this every time. And the runs up the middle and tunnel screens are easy to defend no matter the formation of the defense. All you have to do is watch the ball and attack it. I also remember Sean McDonough in this game talking about it seeming like we weren't even trying to have a passing attack and that's exactly right. So just like a lot of other fans I don't think DJ seems to be panning out as a top-tier quarterback but I also think the bigger issue over that is our play calling. It's so sad to watch all this talent squandered. I hope we wake up these next two games or we could easily lose them both.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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37 carries for 237 yards, 6.4 per carry = a gold standard.
Dec 1, 2022, 10:53 AM
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See, I can do it too.
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Legend [18790]
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Ranking of #53 and #100 the last two years is not a gold
Dec 1, 2022, 10:59 AM
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standard.
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Heisman Winner [140475]
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Which OC is to blame?***
Dec 1, 2022, 11:03 AM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Continuing 10+ win seasons is though and that's what
Dec 1, 2022, 11:05 AM
[ in reply to Ranking of #53 and #100 the last two years is not a gold ] |
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the fun is about.
Winning is really what the "program" is charged with doing on the field and not "looking" good in some peoples' eyes.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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you can win 10 games and still warrant coaching changes
Dec 1, 2022, 11:07 AM
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see 2011 version of Dabo
he was hungry and not satisfied despite winning 10-games for the first time in 2 decades AND winning the ACC for the first time in 2 decades.
just because we won 10games in this PATHETIC conference doesn't mean changes shouldn't be made.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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That was a mutual philosophical change, if you were
Dec 1, 2022, 11:18 AM
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paying attention.
Steele put up two top 25 defenses without his players in '09 & '10, and his defense in 2010 likely contributed greatly to TDP's resolve in believing in the direction of the program.
Chad Morris and the HUNH/Tempo is what led to the separation, clearly stated by Dabo in "philosophical" differences and in detailing the requirements looked for in the next DC - having a strong background practicing against the "Clemson, up tempo Offense".
Dabo didn't begrudge Coach Steele for his wishes and desires to "practice" his way, but had to break any and all "ties".
That mutual separation is not remotely a similar situation to now.
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Legend [19586]
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Sure, Steele getting canned had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
Dec 1, 2022, 11:21 AM
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to do with being 81st in the nation.....give me a break
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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I don't need to give you a break, what happened was there
Dec 1, 2022, 11:24 AM
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for all to see, Dabo was open about the philosophical reasons, the mutually agreed separation and needs going forward.
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Legend [19586]
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You have a different memory than I
Dec 1, 2022, 11:25 AM
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I don't remember any mutual separation. The guy was flat out fired after that embarrassing Orange Bowl. If that game doesn't go that way he never gets canned that year.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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I have a better memory it seems, maybe yours is clouded...
Dec 1, 2022, 11:26 AM
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by emotion?
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110%er [6858]
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No you dont. He was fired. Period.
Dec 1, 2022, 11:28 AM
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Mutual separation LOL. Good grief.
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Heisman Winner [140475]
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Legend [16902]
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Re: No you dont. He was fired. Period.
Dec 1, 2022, 1:18 PM
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Oof. I wonder when you'll get the appropriate apology and retraction?
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Legend [19586]
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Re: No you dont. He was fired. Period.
Dec 1, 2022, 3:52 PM
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This is literally in the subtitle
"Kevin Steele says he was fired; Clemson says he resigned."
How the heck is that mutual?
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Legend [16902]
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Re: No you dont. He was fired. Period.
Dec 1, 2022, 3:58 PM
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Except Heather doesn’t quote him directly and doesn’t provide more than “ESPN” as her source. She does directly quote Steele himself as “pursuing other opportunities.” Now that and being fired aren’t mutually exclusive but her unwillingness to put the words “fired” directly in Steele’s mouth makes it seem a little more like pot stirring than actual journalism.
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Heisman Winner [140475]
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That's what happens when you just read a headline...
Dec 1, 2022, 4:29 PM
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but I do give him credit for at least researching to support his argument. Agree or disagree, he's not being lazy, and I appreciate that.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: That's what happens when you just read a headline...
Dec 1, 2022, 4:34 PM
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Oh I read the article and it makes no mention whatsoever of it being mutual.
Why is this article some smoking gun when the journalist states it wasn't mutual by stating Steele said he was fired but yet it makes no effort at all to back up your argument that it was mutual?
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Heisman Winner [140475]
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I never made the argument it was mutual...
Dec 1, 2022, 4:46 PM
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The guy I responded to said he was "fired, period", so I looked up articles from the time to see exactly what happened. Figured I'd post the two I read. It looks like Steele told ESPN he was fired at some point, then tweaked his answer. Article also says that Clemson indicates he resigned. I don't know. I do know there was a lot of talk at the time about his D not being a good fit for the new O.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: I have a better memory it seems, maybe yours is clouded...
Dec 1, 2022, 11:31 AM
[ in reply to I have a better memory it seems, maybe yours is clouded... ] |
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Come on dsp, cut the crap.... the "narrative" that Steele himself put out was that there were other "coaching opportunities" that he wanted to pursue. The guy didn't coach anywhere in 2012 and his next gig was "Director of Player Personnel" at Alabama.
You know good and well he was forced out after a #### poor defensive effort on the season and in the bowl game. If you'll believe that "narrative", then I've got this Heisman worthy QB to pitch to you named DJ.....
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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No crap and since you used the word, what happened to you?
Dec 1, 2022, 11:40 AM
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You were always on the edge as an uber-passionate fan, but the incessant crap you've been spewing is well beyond you.
You're not going to berate me, not sure who you might really, into changing what I know.
The philosophical differences built throughout the year as result of installing the Clemson offense. Steele wanted things one way, Morris another and the rift grew. Dabo had to make a decision, one that worked out for all parties and brought BV to Clemson.
BV was not "received" well by all as many thought Big12ish offenses had caught up with BV, then passed him - but Dabo didn't feel that way and BV brought to the table Dabo's reported requirement - experience practicing against Tempo/Spread.
Steele got paid a lot of money to walk away, but the mutual respect between Dabo and Steele has remained. Coach Steele did a lot for Clemson, Dabo said as much and with Coach Big Dan Brooks, put a stamp on the Clemson Defense especially considering Clemson's new and unproven HC.
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Legend [19586]
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Sorry, didn't mean it to come off that way....
Dec 1, 2022, 12:01 PM
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I was typing in jest. Hard to deliver context in text. In no way was I attempting to berate you.
"The philosophical differences built throughout the year as result of installing the Clemson offense. Steele wanted things one way, Morris another and the rift grew."
While this may be true, i don't buy that it is the sole reason, or even a reason at all that he was canned. The results matter.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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CKS had 2 top ~20 Ds, being allowed to do things his way.
Dec 1, 2022, 12:13 PM
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The significant change was bringing in a new scheme/tempo/spread on offense that needed to be installed.
Kevin Steele did not forget how to coach defense, the changes in philosophies in practice is why the rift began and grew, Steele fighting for his philosophy, his practice needs and habits, and his boys.
Not being able to practice the way you feel is important to in game performance matters and matters a lot. It showed at times on game day.
Again, his 2010 defense was fantastic considering how few of his boys he'd been able to recruit and how little the Offense provided relief of "protection" for his defense.
It happens in business relationships, no different in coaching circles and the why philosophical changes are sometimes made.
It's in the best interest of all parties that both "sides" are in harmony.
BV, turned out to be that perfect fix and pointed response to what Dabo said was most important - the spread/tempo practice background.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: CKS had 2 top ~20 Ds, being allowed to do things his way.
Dec 1, 2022, 12:27 PM
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Again, we just remember two different eras.
I remember Kevin Steele having successful defenses with Vic's players and witnessing the tackling, angles and basic fundamentals of our defense degrading the longer Steele was in town.
I remember calling for his firing in 2010 on this board because of this and being berated for it only to be proven right the very next year.
https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-forum/message/dear-kevin-steele-9634401
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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No, I remember Kevin Steele being successful with Vic's
Dec 1, 2022, 12:53 PM
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players who did not fit his scheme, completely overhauling Vic's bend don't break philosophy in lieu of Dabo's vision of the Clemson Defense as an attacking, pressure oriented unit and doing it well.
Of years 1, 2 and 3, three is the one that does not fit and "they" parted ways for the philosophical issues given, reported and detailed when Dabo went to hire a replacement, one with extensive experience practicing against spread/tempo.
You calling for his firing during 2010[Oct?] before that defense finished top 20, all things considered, isn't remotely a counter to the year end results and has nothing to do with the practice issues/philosophical changes that took place in 2011, as has been detailed.
Even if you'd like them too, wish as you may, the two situations, as it relates to the OP and again, the differences and rift reported, are not similar, not remotely.
The philosophy promoted between theChad & BV, has been passed onto their successors. Sort of how it works and one of the whys it is important.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: No, I remember Kevin Steele being successful with Vic's
Dec 1, 2022, 1:30 PM
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There shouldn't be any debate about this. The defense in 2011 was not built to be put back on the field every two minutes. Dabo went with the up tempo offense. Steele moved on. We hired Venables, who was being demoted at Oklahoma, because he was familiar with the challenges of up-tempo, spread offenses. He was not viewed, at the time, as a slam dunk hire. Oklahoma had finished in the 30s in total defense the previous 2 seasons before Venables came to Clemson. Like so much in Dabo's tenure, the degree of Venable's success at Clemson was completely unpredictable. It's ridiculous that people who know they would have never guessed anything about Dabo's tenure correctly suddenly are positive about what should happen next.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Agree. Changes may come, people may or may not be happy...
Dec 1, 2022, 1:39 PM
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but to try and use that 2011 situation as some 'leverage' against Dabo and the current one, is a bit absurd.
Dabo has made changes, that's clear, and has shepherded the program from "go". I don't expect that to change.
Heck, I'd be surprised if Spud wasn't upset because it was rumored that Coach Powell was relieved of duty for his <3 for the huge-mouth bass fishing over long hours & recruiting.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Legend [16902]
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Re: Sure, Steele getting canned had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
Dec 1, 2022, 1:17 PM
[ in reply to Sure, Steele getting canned had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ] |
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If that's the point you want to make, you're defeating your own argument. Streeter has improved the offense more dramatically in one season than Venables did the defense in his first season. In total upward movement Streeter is closer to Venables second season improvement than Venable's first season is to Streeter's. Y'all are so eager to bash this program you don't actually look at any facts. And frankly, after calling our OC a "drooling toddler" I don't place any stock in anything Mr. Hood has to say at this point.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Sure, Steele getting canned had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
Dec 1, 2022, 4:39 PM
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What's the background on this "drooling toddler" thing? I keep seeing it mentioned but when and why did it occur? Was it in an article?
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Legend [16902]
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Re: Sure, Steele getting canned had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
Dec 1, 2022, 4:48 PM
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A tweet from his account that was reposted multiple times here. I don’t use Twitter.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Sure, Steele getting canned had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
Dec 1, 2022, 4:58 PM
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If it was in response to the way Brandon Streeter acted after the game Saturday then good for David. Streeter acted extremely unprofessional, uncalled for and like a child to a legitimate question, and his answer to the question makes even less sense.
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Legend [16902]
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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"If" would rely on Coach Steele being allowed to practice...
Dec 1, 2022, 11:53 AM
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as he needed and wanted, which he was not.
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CU Guru [1686]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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I watched it, the entirety of it. I also pay attention...
Dec 1, 2022, 12:00 PM
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to every thing else that had come out of that season/year, the growing gulf between the two Coordinators' philosophies on important practice time.
As all of this relates back to the OP, those differences would not seem to currently exist as the "fix" in philosophy was provided by BV[prior required experience as stated by Dabo], then theChad and their successors having lived within the philosophy for years.
So, the similarities between the two situations is ~non-existent, vastly limited at best.
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Legend [19586]
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Exactly
Dec 1, 2022, 11:19 AM
[ in reply to you can win 10 games and still warrant coaching changes ] |
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In 2009 we hired Kevin Steele after being 18th in total Defense the year prior (2008). During his tenure we went 20th (2009), 19th (2010) and 81st (2011) in total defense. Despite winning 10 games and the ACC championship in that 3rd year, we canned him.
Streeter became passing game coordinator in 2020 after being 23rd in passing offense the year prior (2019). He became full OC in 2022. During his tenure we've gone 6th, 103rd and currently 84th and dropping like a rock. Despite winning 10 games and the ACC championship in that 3rd year, we.....are going to keep him around cause he's a good guy.
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Heisman Winner [140475]
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Whoa...
Dec 1, 2022, 11:28 AM
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Which coach gets the blame, the OC or the passing game coordinator? And if we are going to look at all of his roles, why are we leaving off QB coach from 2015 to 2019?
I'm not saying I love Streeter or his play calling, but if there is a common denominator regarding our 21-22 drop off, it's not Streeter.
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Whoa...
Dec 1, 2022, 11:34 AM
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I don't know how else to explain it to you FM.
Scott was the passing game coordinator prior. The passing game fell off a cliff a$$ first when he left.
If we want to discuss QBs, Watson, TLaw and DJ all either regressed or did not significantly improve.
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Heisman Winner [140475]
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Only one of those "regressed"...
Dec 1, 2022, 11:38 AM
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and that's if you use cherry picked metrics. There are just as many metrics that showed improvement. Maybe you can show your work. You could be right, but you understand that I'm not going to just trust your post with no data.
And regarding Jeff Scott, have you looked at our production after he was gone? The drop of was not immediate at all. Good info posted elsewhere on this board if you want to look for it.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Only one of those "regressed"...
Dec 1, 2022, 11:58 AM
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Sure let's dive in.....
The very first QB he prepared for a game was Cole Stoudt. A lot of people like to pin a ribbon on Street for Stoudt's Oklahoma bowl performance. Street had nothing to do with it. That kudos goes to Elliot who was smart enough to adjust our game plan with Stoudt to high percentage throws to players with speed behind the sticks. Similar to what we have done with DJ except our WR's now suck. Chad was notoriously stubborn and hardly ever adjusted anything he did whether it be season or in-game. Tony's adjustment worked. Tony was an elite play caller.
Deshaun Watson - His highest PER was in 2014 under the tutelege of Chad Morris at 188.6. Watson sported a 10.7 yard average per attempt and a 7 to 1 TD/Int ratio.
His next season his PER dropped to 156.3, ypa to 8.4 and TD/Int ratio to 2.7 to 1
His final season his PER dropped again to 151.1, ypa again to 7.9 and TD/INT ratio again to 2.4 to 1
Trevor Lawrence - Highest PER was his final year (157.6, 166.7, 169.2), highest ypa was his final year (8.3, 9.0, 9.4), TD/INT ratio was 7.5, 4.5, 4.8
This one is hard to judge. In non scoring metrics he improved. In terms of points production he regressed then slightly improved.
DJU - His highest PER was freshman year 146.4. Then 108.7. This year it is 136 but you can argue that it has a lot to do with the vast majority of short to immediate passes. ypa has gone from 7.8, 6.0 to 6.9, again you can point to the model of our passing game to explain the increase here. Completes more passes therefore gains more yards per attempt. TD/int ratio 5 to n/a, 0.9 to 1, 3.1 to 1. Definitely has improved in this metric, but again, short intermediate throws can play a huge role in cutting down on picks. Watson nor Trevor had this passing game model dumbed down for them. DJ's numbers have improved but it's smoke and mirrors.
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Heisman Winner [140475]
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Re: Only one of those "regressed"...
Dec 1, 2022, 12:05 PM
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Clemson strength of schedule rank:
2014: #28
2015: #1
2016: #3
Watson’s passing stats per season:
2014: 1466 yards, 67.9%, 14 TDs, 2 INTs
2015: 4109 yards, 67.8%, 35 TDs, 13 INTs
2016: 4593 yards, 67.0%, 41 TDs, 17 INTs
Now what?
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Only one of those "regressed"...
Dec 1, 2022, 12:10 PM
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The raw stats don't mean much to me. Metrics mean more. Is 4593 better than 4109? Sure, but how many more attempts were made? Is 41>35? Sure but how many more attempts were made?
While SOS does play somewhat of a role we are going to disagree as to what level because 2015 and 2016 includes the playoffs.
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All-In [44045]
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All-In [44045]
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Heisman Winner [140475]
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Yes, cherry picking...
Dec 1, 2022, 3:58 PM
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that's exactly what only providing metrics that support your argument is...
"To choose something very carefully to ensure that the best option is chosen, perhaps through means that provide one an unfair advantage or from a selection that others do not have ready access to."
Examples: Providing interception stats without providing TD stats or total yards stats. Providing QBR without providing competition ranking. Etc...
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/cherry-pick cherry-pick Definition of cherry-pick in the Idioms Dictionary. cherry-pick phrase. What does cherry-pick expression mean? Definitions by the largest Idiom Dictionary.
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Heisman Winner [140475]
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Or maybe you'd like to go through these 2015/2016
Dec 1, 2022, 4:12 PM
[ in reply to Cherry picking metrics? You mean meaningless stats like QB rating and interceptions? ] |
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regressions and let me know which ones fit your narrative. Or are you only sticking with the 2 you cherry picked above?
"Watson's name appears five times in the FBS record book. Here are some of the records and statistical accomplishments achieved by the former Clemson quarterback:
Responsible for one of 35 seasons in FBS history with at least 2,000 passing yards and 1,000 rushing yards: 4,104 passing yards, 1,105 rushing yards (2015)
1st in Clemson history in total offense in a game: 588 yards vs. Pittsburgh, Nov. 12, 2016
1st in Clemson history in passing yards in a game: 580 yards vs. Pittsburgh, Nov. 12, 2016
1st in Clemson history in passing yards in a season: 4,593 yards (2016)
1st in Clemson history in passing yards per game in a season: 306.2 yards/game (2016)
1st in Clemson history in passing yards per game in a career: 267.2 yards/game
1st in Clemson history in passing touchdowns in a game: Six vs. North Carolina, Sept. 27, 2016; vs. South Carolina, Nov. 26, 2016
1st in Clemson history in passing touchdowns in a season: 41 (2016)
1st in Clemson history in passing touchdowns per game in a season: 2.73 touchdowns/game (2016)
1st in Clemson history in passing touchdowns per game in a career: 2.37 touchdowns/game
1st in Clemson history in rushing yards by a quarterback in a season: 1,105 yards (2015)
1st in Clemson history in completions in a season: 388 completions (2016)
1st in Clemson history in completions per game in a career: 21.4 completions/game
1st in Clemson history in consecutive completions in a season: 19 completions (2016)
T-1st in Clemson history in wins as a starting quarterback: 32 wins
T-9th in FBS history in single-game completions: 52 completions vs. Pittsburgh, Nov. 12, 2016
12th in FBS history in total yards in a season: 5,222 yards (2016)
15th in FBS history in total yards in a season: 5,209 yards (2015)
18th in FBS history in career yards per game: 318.3 yards/game"
https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2022-01-20/deshaun-watson-college-football-career-stats-highlights-records
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All-In [44045]
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It’s not about supporting a narrative.
Dec 1, 2022, 4:41 PM
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It’s about looking at the actual data to see if QBs have actually improved under Streeter.
Simply posting a few records set or citing our overall team’s success tells us very little about our QB development at Clemson.
You can’t be mad at people here for looking at legitimate measurements like QB rating and making inferences from them.
If anything, it seems that you are the one trying to make stats fit a narrative.
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Heisman Winner [140475]
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"Simply posting a few records set or citing our overall...
Dec 1, 2022, 4:51 PM
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team's success tells us very little about our QB development at Clemson."
That's why I posted his total yardage, TD totals, completion percentages, interceptions, strength of schedule ranking, along with a few (19) records/accomplishments that he set while regressing. You posted 2 metrics... 2.
#Cherrypicking
No one is mad here. Don't know where that came from, but I don't do mad. Life is too short.
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110%er [6138]
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Heisman Winner [140475]
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What team doesn't have problems...
Dec 1, 2022, 1:05 PM
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against stronger competition?
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110%er [9718]
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You’re on the outside and don’t have a freaking clue…
1
Dec 1, 2022, 10:56 AM
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per Dabo.
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Legend [18790]
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That's true though, stil no knows who calling these awful
Dec 1, 2022, 11:01 AM
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plays, Dabo or Streeter?
And you know they talked about pulling DJ but they didn't.
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CU Guru [1686]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 11:07 AM
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David my man, our offensive philosophy is a$$, plain and simple. Our defensive philosophy is straight trash too. Unacceptable for a so-called "elite" program. Sad part about it is that me and the rest of the t-net family can complain all we want but until Dabo gets his head out of his a$$ and sacks up and makes some tough calle, we will be just another over blown, over hyped program that fields a "####" product. When your QB is 8 for #### 29, and you don't bench his a$$, then you got a problem...lord have mersssssaaaaayyyyy!!!!!
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CU Medallion [50804]
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Not being critical but
Dec 1, 2022, 11:08 AM
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did you really need to go back and chart it?
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110%er [5395]
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Spot on again David
Dec 1, 2022, 11:12 AM
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Please keep up the great work.
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Orange Blooded [3456]
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Lies, Da** Lies, and Statistics
Dec 1, 2022, 11:15 AM
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There is a lot of information missing. What were the results of each type? "Runs up the middle" is that defined as between the tackles? Were they to the left or right side and results left vs right; strong vs weak side? Those are all things the offensive analysts will have compiled, then we will have the information to express a some what informed opinion.
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Legend [18262]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 11:16 AM
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Better watch out Mr. Hood, if Streeter reads Tnet you’re going to make him angry again
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110%er [6386]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 11:28 AM
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Daviddddddd
This is making me hate the offensive coaching staff even more...
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Legend [18262]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 11:33 AM
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Me and my 8yo daughter have had a fun game this year with trying to call the plays before they happen. She’s gotten pretty good at guessing them, hopefully this doesn’t become a tradition though ??
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Oculus Spirit [80305]
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Unfortunately, sounds right.***
Dec 1, 2022, 11:37 AM
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Orange Blooded [2368]
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I charted the plays as well, I think you
Dec 1, 2022, 11:39 AM
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Should include all 1st down plays, not just drive starters.
By my count, there were 14 runs and 7 passes on 1st down. Nearly every pass was play action. Only 2 were completed. 1 to J. Briningstool for 3 and 1 to Shipley for 11.
Of the other 5, 3 were poor throws by DJ and 2 involved pressure (1 sack, 1 rushed throw).
I personally don’t think 1st down run/pass play calling was the issue. When you have a passing game like ours and a run D like USUC, do you really want to throw it on 50% of 1st downs, 65%, ???
The issue with our team is the play of the players. DJ is inaccurate and has poor pocket awareness and slow feet. Ngata, Spector and EJ Williams are NOT PLAYING WELL…. Poor routes (Spector picked his own teammate for godsakes) and below average ball skills. Add to that all the turnovers and well, we have close games against inferior talent and sometimes lose those games.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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Thanks for adding important context to the stats. I didn't
Dec 1, 2022, 11:44 AM
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realize he was focusing only on drive starts to make his numbers fit his narrative.
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All-In [48305]
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Re: I charted the plays as well, I think you
Dec 1, 2022, 12:03 PM
[ in reply to I charted the plays as well, I think you ] |
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Actually if my maff is correct, on those series starting runs, we gained 63 yards, not including the face mask penalty as yards. Which, 5.1 doesn't sound bad. You had dj for 18 on one. Shipley for 12? On the other. But, that's splitting hairs and really need the context you provided.
I really think that is Dabo's context too. It's not just one thing. We're just not executing at the level we want or need from all position groups. Throw in the special team fumbles and it is a loss.
With Trevor, you had those same mistakes too, but he had the ability to overcome them.
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Head Coach [798]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 11:40 AM
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Should have run 13 out of 13. The first down pass was part of a three and out.
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Orange Blooded [2275]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 11:54 AM
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No one was an interception after the fade mask on them. I thought this play call was just stupid because we throw a 50/50 ball wi less than a 10% chance of completing it.
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Orange Blooded [3552]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 12:08 PM
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“Best is the standard”
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 12:13 PM
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The play calling is terrible. When your QB can't throw, what's left???
Wish someone would ask Dabo some hard questions.
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Orange Blooded [3185]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 12:19 PM
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Oh no DH. Your pulse may take a hit from all the pumpers.
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Recruit [76]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 12:29 PM
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I wonder if he asked the secretaries about this.
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110%er [6138]
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FWIW - first plays for all drives
Dec 1, 2022, 12:42 PM
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from the ESPN play-by-play boxscore
(13:21 - 1st) DJ Uiagalelei run for 18 yds to the Clem 25 for a 1ST down
(9:55 - 1st) Will Shipley run for 15 yds to the Clem 25 for a 1ST down
(4:15 - 1st) Phil Mafah run for 2 yds to the Clem 5 CLEMSON Penalty, Offensive Holding (-2 Yards) to the Clem 3
(13:48 - 2nd) Will Shipley run for 5 yds to the Clem 30
(7:58 - 2nd) Will Shipley run for 1 yd to the Clem 26
(2:50 - 2nd) Will Shipley run for 2 yds to the Clem 22
(14:55 - 3rd) Will Shipley run for no gain to the Clem 25
(11:55 - 3rd) Will Shipley run for 3 yds to the Clem 28
(7:06 - 3rd) DJ Uiagalelei pass incomplete
(3:33 - 3rd) Phil Mafah run for 5 yds to the Clem 30
(10:43 - 4th) DJ Uiagalelei run for 3 yds to the Clem 28
(7:00 - 4th) Will Shipley run for 7 yds to the Clem 9 for a 1ST down SOUTH CAROLINA Penalty, Face Mask (15 yards) (15 Yards) to the Clem 24 for a 1ST down
(4:08 - 4th) Will Shipley run for 2 yds to the Clem 5
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110%er [5572]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 12:50 PM
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Misinformation!
Please don't let a few facts get in the way of a good narrative. 
I'm going to assume that when Clemson's offense was a wrecking ball a few years ago we were less predictable on 1st play drives.
Those are see juicy stats. I'd love to know what Streeter's strategy was.
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Hall of Famer [21258]
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I had no problem running it on 1st down in this game.
Dec 1, 2022, 12:57 PM
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We would run the ball for 6 yards on first... then pass the next 2 downs. That was my issue. KEEP RUNNING THE DANG BALL AGAINST THE COOTS! They could not stop the run. Is it predictable... yes. Did it work... yes. Did we for some idiotic reason decide to throw the ball... yes.
Just run the ball every play in the 2nd half and we win that game.
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Legend [15749]
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What's the threshold for a successful first down play?
Dec 1, 2022, 1:02 PM
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5 yard? Just curious. Below is the result of each starting drive play. 5 of 12 running plays went for 5 yards or more. 8 of 12 went for 3 yards or more. I just don't know what conventional wisdom says is "success" on a first play.
Drive # First Play
1 18 yard DJ run
2 15 yard WS run
3 2 yard PM run (holding penalty)
4 5 yard WS run
5 1 yard WS run
6 2 yard WS run
7 0 yard WS run
8 3 yard WS run
9 Incomplete Pass
10 5 yard PM run
11 3 yard DJ run
12 7 yard WS run
13 3 yard WS run
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Walk-On [109]
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Re: What's the threshold for a successful first down play?
Dec 1, 2022, 1:12 PM
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5,6,7 & 8 was a tough stretch.
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Orange Blooded [4562]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 1:11 PM
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Stevie Wonder said it was predictable too!
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 1:12 PM
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I would love to see what percent of audibles are changed to QB runs. Defenses have to see that it is a near certainty. DJ changes play —> DJ runs for 0 yards.
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Orange Blooded [4562]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 1:13 PM
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I may be mistaken, but I don’t think DJ audibles.
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 5:04 PM
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It sure looks like he is changing the play from the shotgun and when he does, it is usually a QB run. I mean maybe he is just going up to his guys and giving them biscuit recipes, but I assume it is him changing the play because of what the defense is doing.
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Orange Blooded [3977]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 1:41 PM
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And I don't think one time did we see a play action bootleg to get DJ out the pocket, I thought some RPO's would've served well in that game. Like usual, everything was played in a 5 yard box.
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Head Coach [752]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 4:24 PM
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I was waiting for that about 2.5 series into the UGA game last year.
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All-TigerNet [13700]
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Re: Offense predictability
Dec 1, 2022, 4:13 PM
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Thanks David. Been wondering like a lot of folks how Dabo and Street interact in play calling and the unintended affect that’s having.
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CU Medallion [53238]
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Just curious
Dec 1, 2022, 4:34 PM
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Does Clemson use predictive analysis type data models to provide in game insight like ole miss started using? I know Lane is hit or miss on its use, but never heard Clemson using it.
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