|
Replies: 36
| visibility 1
|
Hall of Famer [21614]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 23418
Joined: 8/16/03
|
Swofford wasn't the problem. Miami collapsing was.
Jul 6, 2022, 4:23 PM
|
|
The expansion move the ACC made adding Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College was a brilliant coup at the time. Miami was the a super-elite program for the last two decades. Then... they just died.
Virginia Tech pulled more than their own weight after coming over. They bolstered the league while FSU and Miami dropped from prominence. FSU looked to revive under Jimbo, but Miami has remained a MASSIVE disappointment for the league.
It is crazy to me that all of these programs have been mediocre for so long...
Miami, FSU, NC State, Virginia Tech, Boston College, and now Louisville.
The story of ACC football weakness is crazy to me. So many schools had to underperform for so long.
|
|
|
|
 |
110%er [6857]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 6498
Joined: 10/7/07
|
Meh.
Jul 6, 2022, 4:33 PM
|
|
Miami collapsing and never recovering was..... interesting . Ncst, BC, and Louisville have never been prominent programs. Virginia Tech has rarely been more than an on-the-cusp team. FSU falling off a cliff hurt, but the rest just never brought much to the table to begin with. They were basketball plays, pure and simple imo.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [82946]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80103
Joined: 11/29/99
|
Miami and VT both had better football
Jul 6, 2022, 6:09 PM
|
|
programs than us when they joined. BC proved to have a better program than us the first few years in the ACC.
All have way under-performed since.
OP is correct.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16209]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12764
Joined: 11/14/09
|
That certainly didn't help matters. Their former Clinton
Jul 6, 2022, 4:35 PM
|
|
lady Donna Shalala or whatever did not grasp at all the importance behind maintaining the football culture there and really kneecapped that program in a way while serving as the U's Prez.
Where we, and Swoff, dropped the ball was sticking to an awkward division structure for so long - diminishing way too many Saturdays throughout the fall for one weekend in December - and dillydallying too long on a network arrangement.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8514]
TigerPulse: 49%
Posts: 11467
Joined: 9/9/06
|
Re: Swofford wasn't the problem. Miami collapsing was.
Jul 6, 2022, 4:38 PM
|
|
It is not exactly right to consider all those teams mediocre without defining that term. NC State beat us last year, VT has been in the ACC Championship game, and who could ever forget the battles we had with Ville when Lamar was there. Of the 99% of schools not named Alabama, winning and going to bowls is an accomplishment. Celebrate that we are in the 1% with Bama.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6857]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 6498
Joined: 10/7/07
|
LOL you can literally go to a bowl with a losing record
Jul 6, 2022, 4:46 PM
|
|
Your posts get dumber by the minute.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Team Captain [465]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 344
Joined: 12/23/17
|
Re: Swofford wasn't the problem. Miami collapsing was.
Jul 6, 2022, 5:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: Swofford wasn't the problem. Miami collapsing was. ] |
|
It is not exactly right to consider all those teams mediocre without defining that term. NC State beat us last year, VT has been in the ACC Championship game, and who could ever forget the battles we had with Ville when Lamar was there. Of the 99% of schools not named Alabama, winning and going to bowls is an accomplishment. Celebrate that we are in the 1% with Bama.
Well, I agree with you about defining mediocre! NC State has beat us twice in about 13 or so years--both down years for us! VT (& everybody else in the weaker Coastal Division, including Duke) have been to the ACC Championship in the last 10 years. However, I will agree VT did continue to represent themselves well for the first 5 or so years after joining the ACC--since then up & down--mediocre! Louisville was above average for 3 years with Lamar. How about before and after--mediocre at best!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [82946]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80103
Joined: 11/29/99
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24629]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14717
Joined: 10/12/08
|
Re: Swofford wasn't the problem. Miami collapsing was.
Jul 6, 2022, 4:39 PM
|
|
Bobby Bowden, Jimmy Johnson and Frank Beamer was the reason for those team's success. They have not been replaced. They were the program. Just as Dabo is now the program at Clemson.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13031]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 22351
Joined: 4/24/04
|
Miami won titles with 4 different coaches
Jul 6, 2022, 6:06 PM
|
|
And nearly a 5th (Butch Davis). Jimmy Johnson didn't even build that program by himself. Schnellenberger won the first title there in 83.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [82946]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80103
Joined: 11/29/99
|
Yep, and Larry Coker won 1 in 2001.***
Jul 6, 2022, 6:19 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [82946]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80103
Joined: 11/29/99
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5430]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 11906
Joined: 9/23/01
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16058]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 24593
Joined: 5/14/02
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [48004]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14848
Joined: 11/7/20
|
Re: Swofford wasn't the problem. Miami collapsing was.
Jul 6, 2022, 4:41 PM
|
|
Great post.
Same can be said for baseball too. But the BCS, esecpn, and AP pollsters played a large part. FSU played perhaps the most demanding schedule of anyone. Think if we'd have had a true playoff system. The ACC would have fared much better, hence recruiting would have been better.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8413]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5227
Joined: 9/7/09
|
‘Member that time Baker Mayfield won the Heisman?
Jul 6, 2022, 4:42 PM
|
|
So 18 years ago Swofford picked up some teams from a dying conference that had no where else to go. Sweet what has he done since?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [82946]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80103
Joined: 11/29/99
|
They weren't dying until those 4 left.
Jul 6, 2022, 6:24 PM
|
|
The Big East was a better football conference than the ACC at the time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5430]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 11906
Joined: 9/23/01
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5558]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4055
Joined: 10/3/03
|
Re: Swofford wasn't the problem. Miami collapsing was.
Jul 6, 2022, 4:44 PM
|
|
I agree with you about underperforming programs.
It's been confounding. When I was a student from 91-96 the SEC was "ok", the BIG was the gold standard and the ACC was typically the 3rd-5th football conference in the country in any given season.
Inexplicably, the ACC hasn't gained any ground.
Clemson traded places with FSU, but the FSU version is worse. Miami and Va. Tech both collapsed, and BC got worse.
I still blame Swafford for the c r a p p y TV deal though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2466]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3398
Joined: 9/5/04
|
Re: Swofford wasn't the problem. Miami collapsing was.
Jul 6, 2022, 4:47 PM
|
|
It's true Swofford deserved credit for football expansion, and nobody could have predicted those programs and FSU would struggle like they have.
He has to own responsibility for the TV deal. And how did the University Presidesnts all go along with that deal? Malpractice
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-99]
TigerPulse: 68%
Posts: 3740
Joined: 9/5/20
|
Very narrow viewpoint.
Jul 6, 2022, 4:49 PM
|
|
And not historically accurate.
Swofford was not a visionary. He was a reactionary. He never did jack for Clemson. He never did anything really for the ACC. All he ever cared about was tobacco Road.
He’s like the NCAA in general. No vision. Always two steps behind everyone else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [51760]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 22947
Joined: 10/10/11
|
Re: Very narrow viewpoint.
Jul 6, 2022, 6:19 PM
|
|
Swofford was absolutely a reactionary! I can't remember when the ACC actually had a proactive commissioner. Maybe that's because Swofford was in that position WAY too long! A visionary would have NEVER locked a league into a TV deal that lasted until 2036.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [21614]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 23418
Joined: 8/16/03
|
Do you realize you didn’t even make an argument?
Jul 6, 2022, 7:34 PM
[ in reply to Very narrow viewpoint. ] |
|
You just made a bunch of subjective assumptions with literally no argument.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5007]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 6030
Joined: 10/9/08
|
It was not subjective… it was fax!***
Jul 6, 2022, 8:16 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-99]
TigerPulse: 68%
Posts: 3740
Joined: 9/5/20
|
Water is wet.
Jul 8, 2022, 11:54 PM
[ in reply to Do you realize you didn’t even make an argument? ] |
|
The sky is blue.
The sun rises in the east.
The sun sets in the west.
The planets revolve around the sun
It takes a man and a woman to have a child. Men produce sperm. Women produce eggs. That’s called biology.
The earth is round.
Grass is green.
I can do this all day. Why do I need to make an argument to state things that are factual? Also I didn’t come here for an argument. I made a statement truthful statements about a terrible commissioner. A man that graduated from the University of North Carolina and everything he did was for the benefit of the North Carolina schools. A conference that’s never given #### about Clemson and done things to harm Clemson.
Why are you defending a man that never did anything that was beneficial to Clemson? Are you his son or brother-in-law? Are you related to the man?
I could also say you didn’t make an argument. You pointed out that I stated facts. If you have a problem with those facts then you make the argument. I don’t have to prove myself right. If you think I’m wrong you have to prove me wrong.
2 + 2 = 4
Do I need a math proof for saying 2+2 is four? Or do we just know that that is a factual statement?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [23095]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 19801
Joined: 1/15/11
|
I don't like Swofford because of UNCheat
Jul 6, 2022, 4:50 PM
|
|
But, you're right, on paper ,with what each of the new schools did previously, The ACC should have been a lot better than it's been the last decade. Hard to get top $$$ from TV deal when most of the teams are crapping the bed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15863]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28958
Joined: 9/18/01
|
Swofford has been nothing but a Problem for a LONG LONG
Jul 6, 2022, 4:55 PM
|
|
LONG time.
Always been a problem
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Swofford wasn't the problem. Miami collapsing was.
Jul 6, 2022, 5:42 PM
|
|
There is no excuse for what Swofford negotiated.
Absolutely pathetic commercial terms.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7173]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6879
Joined: 1/25/17
|
Teams - No. TV Deal - Yes.
Jul 6, 2022, 6:28 PM
|
|
He can't be blamed for those teams falling off, yes. But, that TV Deal was awful. It was behind the times before he signed.
He was apparently only thinking in terms of: *i don't know what he was thinking..can't even speculate.
Miami - won 5 National titles starting in 1983 with Schnelenberger. Then Johnson, then Coker I believe won a few. Solid. Even now the analyst always reference: "The Canes"! Miami won it in 2001 and played for it and got robbed in 2002.
It is an example I use all the time: "just because you have good players; don't make you a good team"! Miami has still put plenty of players in the league; if you look it up. They just don't play well when it matters consistently. Talent-wise they are in perhaps the most fertile ground in the country.
BC as someone else stated - was a nail in Clemson's side their first few years. We couldn't hardly beat them jokers. So, let's not forget.
VT - same thing! You couldn't beat Beamer ball. Don't forget Virginia Tech played for the National Title in 2000.
Things go around though! I seem to recall the SEC not being very prevelant on the National scene besides Florida! Everybody else was cannon fodder for Spurrier; including Alabama, LSU, Georgia. Tennessee was their closest competition at the time with Fulmer! Miami, FSU was running the sport, period. Along with Southern Cal, Michigan, Ohio State and VT would be up there.
FSU just played for it and won it in 2013.
People have very short memories! This is proven by the fact all the same people saying the ACC is weak: "WON'T ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE BIG 10 HAS ONLY HAD 1 SCHOOL REPRESENT/PLAY FOR OR WIN A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP SINCE 2000"! The ACC during that same time period has had 4. (VT, Clemson multiple times, FSU multiple times and Miami). No, VT and Miami were not a part of the ACC then; but they are current member schools.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5430]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 11906
Joined: 9/23/01
|
Re: Teams - No. TV Deal - Yes.
Jul 6, 2022, 8:37 PM
|
|
Dont forget we SUCKED for 20 plus years
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64867]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33141
Joined: 12/3/03
|
The ACC being considered a weak football league is nothing
Jul 6, 2022, 7:43 PM
|
|
new. I think the last time the ACC got much respect in football, Frank Howard was still in the first half of his tenure. Starting around 1959-60, the ACC rarely had ANY ranked football teams at the end of a year. We were known as "the white meat league", food for the Nebraskas, Oklahomas and Alabamas of the world at the time.
I do agree that it is puzzling how a school with the football pedigree (and the rich boosters) of Miami just fell off the map and never came back. Of course, they think they will BE back in a year or two under Cristobal, but that remains to be seen. FSU needs to come back as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7173]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6879
Joined: 1/25/17
|
Re: The ACC being considered a weak football league is nothing
Jul 6, 2022, 8:09 PM
|
|
The reason is pretty evident why though. "Perception" being reality. I know, I know, one year doesn't mean you are a boss of leagues. But, in 2016 the ACC finished the season with two top 10 teams and 5 teams ranked in the top 25 including the National Champions!
The ACC also went 9-3 that season in bowl season! But, you hear nothing about that, right! That's because ACC schools don't generate enough revenue to talk about.
So, I get it. It's just that so many others have drunk the kool aid into believing "it's everything"! Fact is; based on how people are talking: "we should never have been able to compete and that didn't just start because those schools have always have far more resources"!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_NCAA_Division_I_FBS_football_rankings
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64867]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33141
Joined: 12/3/03
|
You are right about one year not making you a boss. The ACC
Jul 7, 2022, 7:41 PM
|
|
pretty much did NOTHING to follow up that one good year. We are the polar opposite of the SEC when it comes to bowl season. Occasionally, the SEC will have an off year where they have a bad losing bowl record. That is MOST years for the ACC, and the anomaly is for the ACC to have a big WINNING record in bowl season.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16058]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 24593
Joined: 5/14/02
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64867]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33141
Joined: 12/3/03
|
Ed Zachary!
Jul 7, 2022, 7:39 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mascot [22]
TigerPulse: 49%
Posts: 973
Joined: 7/22/16
|
Swofford lost me when….
Jul 6, 2022, 7:48 PM
|
|
….he moved an ACC championship game from Charlotte to Florida because trannies I’m NC were upset that the gubment wouldn’t let them pee in ladies’ restrooms.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3723]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3525
Joined: 11/30/14
|
Re: Swofford wasn't the problem. Miami collapsing was.
Jul 6, 2022, 8:37 PM
|
|
At the time the ACC was looking like a budding powerhouse, sadly it just hasn’t come too fruition. Also, it’s not like these other ACC schools haven’t been trying. Honestly, I’d love too see an ACC that thrives in football. Go Tigers!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 36
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
