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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
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Jan 6, 2023, 8:19 PM
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First off, Dabo hired him to follow one of the best Defense Coordinators in the last 15yrs. But Wes has never coached a game, purely an analyst. Just because a person can see post game trends, just because they see tendacies, they see trends and would call certain calls if they saw this trend does not mean they can coach a team nor can they make live game adjustments. Just because CBV wanted him doesn't mean he was hired as DC!
I was skeptical of this hire and still not sold. Our defense was as stacked as ever with NFL talent and we still sit lower than last 10yrs. CWG was LB coach but never been a titled team coach and gets the DC position at same time??
I think we easily had a top 15 defense this year and yes the weak offense did not help the Def stats.
All that to say, how could an elite team hire a coach with the minimal coaching record for a top3 defense? Sorry, but this hire was just easy for Dabo. Maybe Wes could have been an analyst and position coach to get training but a position and Coordinator is almost crazy thinking success will happen.
I hope Dabo has a new dream of success soon because I see the exact meaning of "Insanity" knocking on our doorstep! I love Dabo and want him successful at Clemson, but I dont want him to just walk through the paces because we can win the ACC.
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Oculus Spirit [76935]
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It's simple.
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Jan 6, 2023, 8:23 PM
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CBV was going to hire him away and Dabo knew his potential isn't even close to shimmering yet.
Sit back and watch. If you can't just sit back and watch, take a peak at his first recruiting class.
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Hall of Famer [23112]
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6 of Wes' player just took an extra year
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Jan 6, 2023, 8:23 PM
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to come back and play for him. That coupled with the defensive haul in the recruiting class FAAAAAAAR outweighs any concerns you could have.
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CU Guru [1487]
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And there you have it.***
Jan 6, 2023, 10:31 PM
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All-TigerNet [12098]
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3 answers
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Jan 6, 2023, 8:25 PM
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3, 13, 33
If Wes Goodwin is a good enough coach for these guys to delay going to the NFL in order to play for him one more year, that’s all I need to know.
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All-Conference [441]
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Re: 3 answers
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Jan 7, 2023, 12:48 AM
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Maybe their draft status is a bigger factor in that decision? XT probably isnt getting drafted after being injured the majority of the last 2 seasons, Ruke was a late rounder more than likely after being mostly a backup. As for Davis I honestly thought he was gonna be an early rounder, I think we got lucky keeping him.
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CU Guru [1998]
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That's a lot of typing to say I don't know ####
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Jan 6, 2023, 8:27 PM
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Congratulations
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: That's a lot of typing to say I don't know ####
Jan 7, 2023, 9:18 AM
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Uhm, hence the opener saying "No Answers"
Glad you fully comprehended the OP, because I didn't profess to have answers. Basically you don't know Chit either, just re-stated my open. Thanks!
But your input was shocking in new input, thanks!
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CU Guru [1650]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
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Jan 6, 2023, 8:28 PM
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I think the questions should be focused on Co DC Mickey Conn more than WG. The secondary was the weakest link especially against the pass happy offenses. Our DL was solid and LB corp even better.
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All-In [48298]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
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Jan 6, 2023, 8:55 PM
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That's been easy to forget that he is a co- coordinator. And you're right, the backend was a mess.
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
Jan 7, 2023, 9:38 AM
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That's been easy to forget that he is a co- coordinator. And you're right, the backend was a mess.
Wes is "Defensive Coordinator and Linebackers Coach"
Mickey Cohn is "Co-Defensive Coordinator and Safeties Coach"
No "Co-" in Wes's title, even if it Mickey's "Co-" suggests there is another floating around in the building. Bottom line is that everyone knows that Wes is the guy.
To further confuse things, Mike Reed is "Assistant Head Coach, Special Teams Coordinator, and Cornerbacks Coach!"
I suspect some of the convoluted titles are to help (bureaucratically) get the staff raises.
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All-TigerNet [12870]
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Orange Blooded [2861]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
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Jan 7, 2023, 2:40 AM
[ in reply to Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers ] |
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D line underwhelmed in a consistent pass rush. Run stop was solid. Now this could be from the blind eye that the ACC refs turned to holding that gets called every time in the NFL, but nonetheless underwhelming.
I think Vic Beasley caused more issues by himself to be honest.
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Legend [18790]
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110%er [6981]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
Jan 7, 2023, 11:11 AM
[ in reply to Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers ] |
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Yeah the Conn hire is one of those head scratchers. Seems like giving an old buddy a job. Goodwin has been solid, if the refs knew how to call holding , then the Clemson defense would look a whole lot better
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CU Guru [1959]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
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Jan 6, 2023, 9:01 PM
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Myles Murphy didn’t play hard all year like it or not because he knew he was going early in the draft. Brian Bresee had enough distractions to keep Superman from having a great year. I for one commend Brian for not taking a leave from the team for what he and his family had to go through. The secondary was the weak spot and everyone knew that before the season started. The secondary improved and will be better next season. I do have two fair critiques of Wes this year and I think he has learned from them. Number one against Notre Dame do whatever it takes to stop the run. Number two play more zone defense and maybe a Tampa Two against pass happy offenses.
Let’s all face it most our losses the last two seasons were due to our inept offense and more specifically our QB play. Cade still has some growing and learning to do but it is plain as day that Cade is a huge upgrade for us. Go Tigers.
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
Jan 7, 2023, 9:22 AM
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I hadn't heard anyone say that about MM but I totally felt like he wasn't doing his Superman tackles nor bull rushing the line like previous years!?
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All-In [31303]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
Jan 7, 2023, 11:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers ] |
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Myles Murphy didn’t play hard all year like it or not because he knew he was going early in the draft. Brian Bresee had enough distractions to keep Superman from having a great year. I for one commend Brian for not taking a leave from the team for what he and his family had to go through. The secondary was the weak spot and everyone knew that before the season started. The secondary improved and will be better next season. I do have two fair critiques of Wes this year and I think he has learned from them. Number one against Notre Dame do whatever it takes to stop the run. Number two play more zone defense and maybe a Tampa Two against pass happy offenses.
Let’s all face it most our losses the last two seasons were due to our inept offense and more specifically our QB play. Cade still has some growing and learning to do but it is plain as day that Cade is a huge upgrade for us. Go Tigers.
With our personnel the 50/50 balanced approach should have been 70/30 run. That’s what worked this year. Get out of here with thinking we are going to win anything throwing it 56 times.
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110%er [8537]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
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Jan 6, 2023, 9:43 PM
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If Wes could not coach, Dabo would not have hired him and if you think it will be easy to win the ACC now that FSU and Miami are coming back you are delusional.
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All-TigerNet [10824]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
Jan 6, 2023, 10:05 PM
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Miami stinks.
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
Jan 7, 2023, 9:46 AM
[ in reply to Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers ] |
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Coming back does not mean they are back? Where does them "Coming Back" have anything to do with Wes and Dabo being great?? I don't care what they do if Dabo doesn't chase "Best is Standard!"
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110%er [7128]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
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Jan 6, 2023, 9:50 PM
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Typical of most professions, the improvement for coordinators is most pronounced between their first and second years.
Both Goodwin and Streeter did a good job in 2022; if not then none of our top recruits from either the defensive or offensive side would have stuck with us.
BTW, the recruits and their families and coaches know more about FB than 99% of TNet posters.
Enjoy your weekend.
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All-In [44044]
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Sorry, but players wanting to play for a coach is not an objective measure
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Jan 6, 2023, 10:01 PM
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of that coach’s ability to coach well.
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All-TigerNet [10824]
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Re: Sorry, but players wanting to play for a coach is not an objective measure
Jan 6, 2023, 10:07 PM
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You may be correct. Why do you think they are coming back?
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Asst Coach [724]
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Re: Sorry, but players wanting to play for a coach is not an objective measure
Jan 6, 2023, 10:22 PM
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I think the players are coming back because they love Clemson. After that I’d say Dabo. I’m sure Wes is a great guy but I agree with the OP, it is far from certain of he is a great (or for that matter very good) DC yet. Next year will be telling altho all the returnees should definitely help
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110%er [5972]
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So if our defense next year is as good as we expect it to be
Jan 6, 2023, 11:10 PM
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will it be bc Wes is a good coordinator or bc we have a lot of talent?
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All-TigerNet [12098]
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: Clearly - or there wouldn’t be a single MBB player on campus***
Jan 7, 2023, 9:40 AM
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I LOL'd.
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All-Conference [441]
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: Sorry, but players wanting to play for a coach is not an objective measure
Jan 7, 2023, 9:46 AM
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I think draft projections were the determining factor
+1. It is not a bid deal for someone to return if he wasn't going to be a first round draft pick. Bresee returning would have been a big deal, because we expect him to be a first rounders but, because of the injuries last season and the turmoil this season, one could really imagine him improving his stock with one last dominant season.
I'm glad the guys coming back are coming back, but I don't see a larger message than "it's good for our future to return."
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: Sorry, but players wanting to play for a coach is not an objective measure
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Jan 7, 2023, 9:28 AM
[ in reply to Sorry, but players wanting to play for a coach is not an objective measure ] |
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I was waiting for someone to state the obvious. These guys may just love Clemson and College. They are happy to fall in Rd 3 in 2023 or on 24. Some people don't live buy the dollar.
What I love about TD is there has never been a time he didn't have a smile on his face. If he loves college and gets some NIL money, then why leave early if he has another year of fun? Maybe he blows ot out this year as he knows it is money making time? I wish him huge success!!
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Orange Blooded [3456]
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I keep hearing that the purpose of Tigernet is
Jan 6, 2023, 10:46 PM
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a place to discuss things. Why the provocative post and run, no rebuttals to replies. Essentially you stated your opinion with a few facts to support it, but no in depth analysis.
I was "skeptical of your qualifications" as a defensive coordinator analyst. Why should I change my opinion?
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Orange Blooded [3568]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
Jan 6, 2023, 11:02 PM
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He's definitely the bigger question imo. I don't like the switch in mentality from attack defense to bend but don't break. However all the injuries and inexpierence in the secondary may have something to do with that. Year 2 will tell alot.
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Orange Blooded [2349]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
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Jan 7, 2023, 12:14 AM
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Wes has now coached 15 games and is 12-3. I don’t want to hear anything about Brent’s players because Brent had 3 losses last year also. Brent also had a first rounder playing in the secondary in booth. Wes didn’t have that luxury. I believe if Wes can coach up the dbs he will do great.
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
Jan 7, 2023, 10:23 AM
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CBV didn't have 3-6 first rounders playing their senior or + year. While it might be same guys, everyone knows what a year does. But guys that have felt the CBV fire might play differently than guy without.
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Walk-On [114]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
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Jan 7, 2023, 7:11 AM
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Wes Goodin was an assistant coach at Mississippi ST. and for the Arizona Cardinals. He knows how to coach and he understands how to scheme! Clemson's secondary last year was not only young and inexperienced, it also faced injury issues all year. 2022 would have seen a big difference if the Secondary and the WR room had seen less attrition. 2023 with a healthy team will see a huge improvement especially if the QB shows marked improvement in decision making, the defense should be really good next year with depth on the front end and the back. LB definitely needs to stay healthy with the losses of Simpson and Bentley. If we can be injury free in '23 we will all see: These Coordinators like Dabo are diamonds in the rough.
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All-In [31303]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
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Jan 7, 2023, 8:00 AM
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Honestly DC is the least of my concerns.
Offensive play calling on the other hand has me puzzled.
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All-In [27374]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
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Jan 7, 2023, 9:11 AM
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Outscore the opponents and you win EVERY time... it’s in the book,
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Legend [18790]
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There are a lot of concerns especially for a 12 win ACC
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Jan 7, 2023, 9:46 AM
[ in reply to Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers ] |
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champ team.
Next year will be very telling indeed. I think both coordinators need at least another year, but if the offense AND defense do not improve, Dabo needs to be taking serious action in my opinion.
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All-In [31303]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
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Jan 7, 2023, 11:00 AM
[ in reply to Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers ] |
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Why does the Dline coach get off the hook for any issues with the defense? He was coaching the best talent we had on the entire team but at times could not control the LOS like at ND. The only thing that should have been said this year was dang that front 4 is dominant.
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Orange Blooded [4441]
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I’m still waiting to see how good he is.
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Jan 7, 2023, 9:41 AM
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This year our defense was a slight let down. I don’t know if it was because Goodwin is learning on the job. Next year should be very telling.
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All-TigerNet [10635]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
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Jan 7, 2023, 9:42 AM
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I don't disagree with anything you said, but I also think that a year under his belt being in this position will be huge. He really had to learn how to coach on the fly. Being an analyst is one thing ..... coaching players is another. It is certainly my hope that we will see the same kind of jump in his coaching from year one to year two that we often see in players. I am going to be optimistic and believe that he will be a terrific defensive coordinator.
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
Jan 7, 2023, 10:44 AM
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So all the TD's thinks Wes is a great hire? I am confused by the responses! Ppl say that players come back because of Wes? Maybe they want better draft stats but love Clemson.
No one has said why Wes is great coach! Posters just give a TD but dont tell us why he is the best Dabo could have hired or why Dabo can't hire better, or why we should keep him as DC. I said I had no answers but I don't see any coming from the squad either?
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All-In [31303]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
Jan 7, 2023, 11:17 AM
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So all the TD's thinks Wes is a great hire? I am confused by the responses! Ppl say that players come back because of Wes? Maybe they want better draft stats but love Clemson.
No one has said why Wes is great coach! Posters just give a TD but dont tell us why he is the best Dabo could have hired or why Dabo can't hire better, or why we should keep him as DC. I said I had no answers but I don't see any coming from the squad either?
I believe that Dabo thought it was what was best for Clemson. People can agree to disagree but I have seen nothing that at one time this season thought hey Dabo made a bad hire. Getting good players that want to play for you is huge. Just because you do not need someone to stand on the sidelines with you to keep you off the field does not mean you cannot coach.
If we had a few studs in the secondary and a better offense the defense would not even be brought up besides it seems by a few of us the front 4 underachieved.
Message was edited by: rhpltmeg®
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110%er [7159]
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Could’ve said the exact thing about Dabo after his first season
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Jan 7, 2023, 11:16 AM
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And whether u like it or not that is where Dabo’s perspective comes from. Many said those things about his hire.
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Trainer [36]
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Re: Wes Goodwin-- multiple questions, no answers
Jan 7, 2023, 12:37 PM
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I do expect our defense to
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