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Legend [19924]
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Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research
Aug 19, 2021, 8:52 AM
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...to report on how to improve treatment for infected & hospitalized Covid patients.
I find this very stunning!
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CU Guru [1676]
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Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research
Aug 19, 2021, 8:53 AM
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Ask politicians
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research
Aug 19, 2021, 8:59 AM
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Please tell me more about how to address viral infections in the human body and show your work.
Considering that access to care drops the mortality rate by about 80% for hospitalized patients that HAVE access to ICU and care over those that do not, I don't think your statement is accurate.
Take our founding father's recommendation.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I think he was undervaluing prevention there.
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Legend [19924]
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Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research
Aug 19, 2021, 9:07 AM
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Whoa, hold on now.
I DID NOT discount prevention.
Simply pointed out that I'be personally heard NOTHING about new medications, therapies, or anything to treat the disease once it has been presented in patients.
If you have... Please Inform Me!
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research
Aug 19, 2021, 9:44 AM
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Ok, lets have a beer!
The specifics are outside my wheelhouse. Not an MD not a virologist. I did do some research (Long Hall) once about pollutants increasing infection in specific non-human ecosystems (basically the effects of heavy metals and hydrocarbons and the rate of infection). I am more of a more of a modeler there and try and predict vectors/activity and really validate research.
I have provided some links below on the specific treatments.
To keep it simple, Viruses are extremely trick to treat. This is why the common cold, flu, and even things like HIV or even measles don't necessarily have a "cure". It isn't like bacterial infections and anti-biotics. Normally treating a virus uses medications that stops the viral entry into a potential host cell or maturation at the cellular level (ie the host cell does not complete its transition into a viral spreader). The efficacy of stopping that on a large scale is tough and normally works better as early into the infection as possible. With viruses, it is all a numbers/vectors/infection game.
Another issue is that with Covid, due to being asymptomatic for the first few days, the virus has basically already run rough-shod through the host before treatment can be sought. At that point in time, particularly with those seeking hospitalization, it is a race to restore function from damage already done and prevent further damage. The damage to the lungs causes other issues as it stresses/prevents O2 intake which causes a lot of stress to other organs.
For example, my father passes away early in the shut-down from pulmonary fibrosis. A disease of the lungs which basically reduces lung function (Don't be a life long smoker please). In his latter days, his lung function dropped significantly (down to 25%) to the point where even maxing out his O2, his body could not keep up. This causes the heart to go into onboard mode to try and pump what little O2 he was getting until cardiac arrest. I am using this example because Covid kinda creates a similar scenario for some patients from what I am aware (via acute respiratory distress syndrome) and why other conditions such as heart disease and similar become an important factor. However, there is no real miracle "drug" that replaces oxygen intake. Some might aid, but that only helps when you can get O2. O2, respirators, etc can help as well, but again, they can't replace lung capacity. Then you have other thing like covid related pneumonia etc.
Hope this helps and I hope some MDs RNs, etc can add to it. If I could tolerate the sight of blood, I would have been an MD (unfortunately I am the guy always sick in the dissection labs) as ironically I would have been a dermatologist. But alas, I have a weak stomach there but I was good enough in research to take a good alternative. I can't stand blood, but research statistics and research papers are easy for me.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research
Aug 19, 2021, 9:47 AM
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Thank you for that sir.
Very well stated.
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Legend [19924]
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Thanks, that's a good start!
Aug 19, 2021, 10:16 AM
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Like Soy in a different thread noted, a lot pull really long shifts and are train in what to do, a less in what to say (ie to non-patients). At the end of the day, a lot don't want to keep talking about it. Worse, a lot don't want to keep having the same discussion. Even when someone like Soy does post something, well social media isn't really a great place all the time. Even TV has become more of an echo chamber. I think it is important for those that are medical adjacent fields to help a bit more. Be the middle-man between the physicians and the public ... but this is public health at its core. Thus if you have questions, reach out to your local public health office. Nearly every county has one and those people are the rockstars of trying to get medical information to the public. I HIGHLY recommend it (but I might be a bit bias) . 
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CU Guru [1271]
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Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research
Aug 19, 2021, 3:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research ] |
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My son is a cardiologist in SC
and been talking with about getting the covid shot(its not a vaccination). I'm big on preventive care first which includes tonic water(because it properties), magnesium and zinc supplements, weight training/cardio and deep breathing exercises. I'm 70 and he recommends the shot as long as it's not Johnson and Johnson. ..still praying about it.
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Orange Blooded [3520]
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Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research
Aug 19, 2021, 6:16 PM
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God already gave you the answer by way of your son…at this point you just aren’t listening.
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Orange Blooded [2861]
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Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research
Aug 19, 2021, 11:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research ] |
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Why not the J&J? Serious question as this raises a concern for me. My wife and I got the J&J because it was the first available appointment and I work in the hotel industry.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research
Aug 20, 2021, 10:21 AM
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Against the Alpha strain it was less effective. However, against Delta it appears to be as effective as the two-shot options. Actually, there is data that it could be more effective than Pfizer (as high as 70%+ while 55-65% for Pfizer with two shots). Again, the efficacy for Pfizer and J&J is counted differently so take the numbers with a dose of salt. Both vaccines nearly prevent serious complications/hospitalization if you catch the virus.
Side effects appear minimal but there a risk present that I am not aware of for the others - resulting in an autoimmune disorder - Guillain-Barre Syndrome however, it is extremely rare. We are talking less than 1 in 100,000. This exist with the flu vaccine and adds about 2 cases a year. For the J&J, it there is about 100 cases for the 13 million does provide (so 1 in 130,000)
Any vaccine is better than no vaccine.
If concerned about having a two-dose shot, J&J will likely have a booster as will the other two. So it is now a 3 shot vs 2 shot option now.
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research
Aug 20, 2021, 11:08 AM
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the other thing to keep in mind is that a lot of those breakthrough cases at least originally were coming in folks over 65 and usually in not-great health. The efficacy for the rest of us was still very high.
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Recruit [76]
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Reinfections
Aug 20, 2021, 2:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research ] |
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FutureDoc or anyone with knowledge of the subject, is there any real data that you trust on number and percentage of reinfections? Is there any data or actual comparison of reinfections of vaccinated vs unvaccinated.
So tired of the blanket statement that vaccination is always better with no data to back it up.
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Legend [15914]
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What viruses have we EVER found a cure for
Aug 20, 2021, 11:44 AM
[ in reply to Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research ] |
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In my lifetime, viruses that DONT have treatments
Common cold
Influenza
Chicken pox/shingles
Herpes
HIV is the ONLY one I can think of and it took 20 years.
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All-In [40933]
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we seem to struggle with viruses and cancer
Aug 19, 2021, 9:02 AM
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better than it used to be, but still hard to deal with.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research
Aug 19, 2021, 9:03 AM
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Oh and lack of research, I don't think the medical community has a lack of research. You might not be aware of it but come on folks, at least google it and find the peer reviewed stuff.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7412857/ Treatment Options for COVID-19: A Review Background: The recent COVID-19 pandemic sweeping the globe has caused great concern worldwide. Due to the limited evidence available on the dynamics of the virus and effective treatment options available, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus ...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7406477/COVID-19: A review of the proposed pharmacological treatments The emerging pandemic of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) caused by the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) presents an unprecedented challenge for healthcare systems globally. The clinical course of COVID-19 and its ability ...
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01283-z Post-acute COVID-19 syndrome - Nature Medicine Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) is the pathogen responsible for the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic, which has resulted in global healthcare crises and strained health resources. As the population of patients recovering from COVID-19 grows, it is paramount to establish an understanding of the healthcare issues surrounding them. COVID-19 is now recognized as a multi-organ disease with a broad spectrum of manifestations. Similarly to post-acute viral syndromes described in survivors of other virulent coronavirus epidemics, there are increasing reports of persistent and prolonged effects after acute COVID-19. Patient advocacy groups, many members of which identify themselves as long haulers, have helped contribute to the recognition of post-acute COVID-19, a syndrome characterized by persistent symptoms and/or delayed or long-term complications beyond 4 weeks from the onset of symptoms. Here, we provide a comprehensive review of the current literature on post-acute COVID-19, its pathophysiology and its organ-specific sequelae. Finally, we discuss relevant considerations for the multidisciplinary care of COVID-19 survivors and propose a framework for the identification of those at high risk for post-acute COVID-19 and their coordinated management through dedicated COVID-19 clinics. A comprehensive review of the current literature on post-acute COVID-19, also referred to as long COVID, its pathophysiology and its organ-specific sequelae highlights the need for multidisciplinary follow-up and care of COVID-19 survivors.
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Legend [19924]
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Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research
Aug 19, 2021, 9:22 AM
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Gobblety-gook... please state in layman's terms so I can understand if you're able.
TIA!!!
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Heisman Winner [140523]
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Not sure your inability to understand is his problem.***
Aug 19, 2021, 9:37 AM
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Legend [19924]
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So, if I'm not a Medical Expert... tuff chit.
Aug 19, 2021, 9:42 AM
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That's how it works with informing the public???
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Heisman Winner [140523]
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No…
Aug 19, 2021, 9:44 AM
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If you’re not a medical expert, go to one, not a college sports board.
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Legend [19924]
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Re: No…
Aug 19, 2021, 9:55 AM
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The medical experts haven't had a problem with being ALL OVER TV & THE INTERNET to push masks, mandates, and vaccinations...
... BUT DON'T DARE EXPECT THEM TO TALK ABOUT TREATMENTS!!!
You're a piece of work.
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Heisman Winner [140523]
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Then keep doing it your way…
Aug 19, 2021, 10:12 AM
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seems to be working well.
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Legend [19924]
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Re: Then keep doing it your way…
Aug 19, 2021, 10:21 AM
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Actually, it is.
Was able to glean some friendly info from FutureDoc despite your objections!
hth
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Heisman Winner [140523]
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The info you couldn’t understand?***
Aug 19, 2021, 10:35 AM
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Legend [19924]
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Re: The info you couldn’t understand?***
Aug 19, 2021, 10:39 AM
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We had a beer and opened up a friendly dialogue, which is a nice start and apparently something you have no interest in doing.
Have a GRRReat day FM!
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110%er [6825]
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Legend [19924]
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Re: So, if I'm not a Medical Expert... tuff chit.
Aug 19, 2021, 10:10 AM
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Enjoyed the beer!
As I replied, good start & helpful to an extent. Hope to see more info sharing on all sides of this in the future in a way that the general public can understand.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: So, if I'm not a Medical Expert... tuff chit.
Aug 19, 2021, 10:18 AM
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Not a problem!
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All-TigerNet [10400]
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1st Rounder [612]
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Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research
Aug 19, 2021, 11:14 AM
[ in reply to Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research ] |
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See- the easy way to say all of that- and make people understand it is
Covid causes breathing problems, therefor you don't get enough oxygen. When the body does not get enough oxygen, it makes other organs work harder. Making these organs work harder to process the lessor amount of oxygen is bad. The organs that are now working harder start to wear out, become thicker.
Is it technical by no means, do the patient I pick up in the ambulance understand it- yes and then get this deer in the headlight look- like wow why did not just tell me that.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research
Aug 19, 2021, 9:04 AM
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I think what people miss is that damage to the lungs can't really be reversed. So if a patient checks into the hospital after the virus has already done a ton of lung damage then there isn't really a lot that can be done.
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All-TigerNet [10883]
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Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research
Aug 19, 2021, 9:25 AM
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Wouldn't that be because these are emerging more contagious and severe strains they don't have much experience with? Makes sense to me.
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All-TigerNet [10400]
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Re: Pharma & Doctors have no answers or research
Aug 19, 2021, 9:33 AM
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Today’s doctors takes marching orders from the CDC…nothing more.
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All-In [26510]
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Im sure Fauci has access to the Wuhan data
Aug 19, 2021, 9:39 AM
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He’s just not sharing
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Varsity [213]
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110%er [7160]
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I think treatment should start once you recieve your
Aug 19, 2021, 10:10 AM
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positive covid test. I've heard talk of monoclonal antibody treatment early in the process greatly reduces the proliferation of the infection. Elevating your levels of vitamin D, C, zinc can greatly reduce the risk of the virus taking off as well. There seem to be adequate treatment research out there but it sounds like if you present it as a doctor you'll be discredited and possibly lose your license for bucking the vaccine trend.
Instead.. they just send you home and give you nothing to do, no information other than use the wait to see method. This the "why" that i find mystifying. So you go home and either your immune system fights it off or it doesn't. Not to mention you have to dig deep into the web to find early treatment plans on your own. They're out there but why this isn't mainstream talking point is just weird. This whole thing is weird.
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Orange Blooded [3389]
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Those treatments are available
Aug 19, 2021, 10:57 AM
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under the same kind of emergency use authorization as the vaccines. They have previously not been available, much less widely distributed, and there was an *assumed* scarcity by doctors. The NYT reported on this earlier in the year. That said, I do think Florida has increased availability and access over the past several weeks. Hopefully the same for other low-vax/high-infection states like Alabama.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/23/health/covid-antibody-treatment.html
IMHO, everyone got a little too optimistic with the successful vaccine rollout, as it proved to be such an effective preventive for hospitalization. We did not predict there would be *so many* to flatly reject the vaccine and once again fill our ICU's.
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Legend [19924]
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Incredible!
Aug 19, 2021, 11:09 AM
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The link you provide literally says in the opening paragraph:
"a perception the therapies are only for well-connected people."
Then, when I scrolled down to read the article was SUBSCRIPTION BLOCKED!
SMH
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Letterman [278]
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Re: I think treatment should start once you recieve your
Aug 19, 2021, 11:01 AM
[ in reply to I think treatment should start once you recieve your ] |
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Future doc,if you post that on facebook or youtube it will be taken down and called disinformation. Those drugs are being used in countries around d the world with great success. My doctor told me there are 500 million doses of monoclonal antibodies available in our country not being g used. Why?
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Legend [19924]
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Prime example: every post of mine got TD'd on this thread
Aug 19, 2021, 12:04 PM
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Just for asking questions!!!
btw, I gave you a TU for standing up to the bullies.
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Orange Blooded [2999]
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So brave...***
Aug 20, 2021, 3:42 PM
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