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Editor [∞]
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TNET: As schools buy QBs and pancake houses buy OL, can Clemson compete?
Apr 21, 2022, 8:00 AM
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110%er [9638]
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I love Clemson and Dabo has built something special here but
Apr 21, 2022, 8:09 AM
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I think ultimately the willingness and ability to buy players is going to win out.
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110%er [9656]
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It will be interesting to watch unfold.
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Apr 21, 2022, 8:22 AM
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You may very well be correct.
But I’m holding on to the belief that these players are at the age which they will thrive most in a traditional college program setting.
Team chemistry matters… a lot.
The schools that are just buying a collection of players who are willing to go to the highest bidder each year will crumble.
The schools that try to keep an actual program going (as Dabo appears to be planning on) will be successful.
There is a reason why Wake Forest is really good when they hit a year where they have a bunch of 5th-year seniors who have grown up in the program.
The benefits of that are irreplaceable.
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CU Guru [1577]
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You also may be right
Apr 21, 2022, 9:18 AM
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You may be right but the model has worked pretty darn well in college basketball for the “one and done” schools. No one can say those same schools aren’t the ones funneling money to college athletes through shoe companies and boosters.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: You also may be right
Apr 21, 2022, 9:23 AM
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5 players on a basketball court is a lot different than the 40+ required to field a championship football program. I think the biggest question for Dabo will be keeping high quality depth with the transfer portal available to anyone not getting starts.
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Legend [15470]
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Re: You also may be right
Apr 23, 2022, 10:48 AM
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We recruit players who are used to being 'The Guy". Some can't handle the lack of limelight, but the ones with the "team first" mentality are the ones I love to watch and who I would bet make the most successful men , and women. I hope that isn't lost forever.
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CU Medallion [55261]
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Re: It will be interesting to watch unfold.
Apr 21, 2022, 11:38 AM
[ in reply to It will be interesting to watch unfold. ] |
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The BIGGEST reason those big money programs will crumble, it will be mainly bc of all the crime that big money will bring into those colleges, inside the college, and at least 5 to 10 miles surrounding those colleges. Anywhere that kind of money that college age kids will now have to spend, big time crime will move in on top of them, and like everywhere else that has big time major crimes, they won't be able to keep it out!!!!
Just like the people that make the rules, they made a rule that it was against the law for parents to put the "fear of punishment" in their kids while raising them, and we see now what that has done to our youth now that don't fear punishment. Now putting that kind of money in the hands of our youth, it will only draw more crime to them by the ones that was never taught to fear punishment!!!
PS) I know that some are going to think or say how wrong it was for a parent back in my to kick their kids A$$. And it was wrong with the way some parents back them would beat their kids down, and that was wrong. But I did get my A$$ beat by my parents, and it was with a really good belt or switch on my butt and the back of my legs, and I deserved it bc I done something that I had been taught not to do, or I disrespected a grown up, and I got caught or was told on. But let me tell ya what I wouldn't dare doing, and that was to take a gun to school, break in someone's home and steal there things, or kill other kids, and it wasn't bc of getting in trouble with the law, it was bc I knew my Dad, or Mon would kick my A$$ for a solid month if me or my sibling ever done the thing that our youth are doing now.
I can say as an adult man, I appreciate every A$$ kicking I got from my parents bc they done it with the hope of making me a better man that knew right from wrong. IMO they done the right things by me bc, I am a respectful, truthful man.
Yes, me and my sibling feared that A$$ kicking for breaking the rules between right and wrong, and bc we were taught there is always rules/laws, society didn't need to build bigger jails, or prisons for the young people that were raised the same way as I was. Todays youth do not fear punishment, and that's why we have huge jails, and prisons all over the state of SC, and every other state, it's bc the courts took raising responsible, rule following kids out of the hand of parents by threating to put them in jail, and that cost them hundreds of dollars they don't have to get out of jail, and by threating to take their kids away, and letting them grow up in foster homes where those people are housing kids for the monthly payments going into their checking accounts like a business until most of those kids end up in jail, or prison bc they wasn't raised by loving parents that were hoping to teach them right from wrong, without themselves going to jail when those lessons sometimes has to resort in a A$$ whipping!!!!
There are kids that can be raised without getting a whipping, then there are kids that sometimes has to be forced by the means of getting their butt whipped. I never whipped my two daughters, never, but there were times they would challenge their mom, and she would whip their butts, and honestly it hurt me much worse than it did my daughters, but I knew their mom had to get their attention, and she did, and they learned not to challenge mom!!!
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Oculus Spirit [76638]
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It will certainly play a role, no doubt.
Apr 21, 2022, 2:54 PM
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Stupidity tends to follow means, especially if not regulated to some degree.
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110%er [5371]
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Did you just compare us to WF?
Apr 21, 2022, 1:24 PM
[ in reply to It will be interesting to watch unfold. ] |
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They may have a "good" team, as you put it, when they have a lot of 5th yr seniors, but the years in between are nothing to write home about.
Money ALWAYS wins in business... those who continue to call this "college athletics" will be the ones who fail. This is a billion dollar industry and only the schools who treat it as such will survive.
That "super" conference that Dabo talked about.... 40-50 top schools competing against each other.... well, if we don't adapt we won't be in that top 50.
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110%er [9656]
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No, I didn’t compare Clemson to WF.
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Apr 21, 2022, 9:24 PM
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I simply used WF as an example of how a strong team with experience and chemistry can overcome a lot of other things.
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110%er [6460]
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Re: It will be interesting to watch unfold.
Apr 21, 2022, 10:55 PM
[ in reply to It will be interesting to watch unfold. ] |
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I hope you are right, but I doubt you are. You could take the most cohesive group of two stars in football and they will get slaughtered by a team full of greedy 5 and 4 stars.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: I love Clemson and Dabo has built something special here but
Apr 21, 2022, 9:19 AM
[ in reply to I love Clemson and Dabo has built something special here but ] |
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If Clemson relied on beating Bama, Texas, OHST, and USC at their own game Dabo wouldn't have 2 national championships. We hear year after year about how much more money each of those schools make. NIL is the latest item on the unbalanced score card of college football. Dabo set himself and Clemson apart through family and the growth of young men who can be successful without football. He will continue that message and attract those that fit his culture. We will compete in NIL, but we don't have to outbid anyone because the players asking for the highest bidder already don't fit the culture.
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110%er [6095]
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these programs have been buying players for years, with zero
Apr 21, 2022, 2:02 PM
[ in reply to I love Clemson and Dabo has built something special here but ] |
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to show for it. It's about the head coach, and after that his staff and then the program having a united vision with the university.
Let Texas keep burning their money. I'll take Dabo over that garbage any day of the week.
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1st Rounder [645]
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Re: I love Clemson and Dabo has built something special here but
Apr 21, 2022, 2:38 PM
[ in reply to I love Clemson and Dabo has built something special here but ] |
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Oh yes.
Well, its time to invest in a couple more fishing rods and guns and use the time that I used to watch college football constructively.
#### on the dogs and call the fire. Also, would the last person leaving the building please shut the lights off. Change for the sake of change usually results in a crash.
This party is done.
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110%er [7173]
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They can Still only play 11 at a time. Still 85 scholarships
Apr 21, 2022, 9:29 PM
[ in reply to I love Clemson and Dabo has built something special here but ] |
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Sorry, I understand the argument. Ride pine and get paid, but that money unless it's all up front and "in the bank" isn't guaranteed is it?
Boosters can go back and give that money to the next big deal recruit can't they; if that kid turns out not to be as big of an impact player, right?
Plus, it still takes continuity to win football games! When Boise St. and Oregon(Chip Kelly's Oregon) was beating everybody(no Championships i'll grant you) they were not loaded with 5 star players! They had 3 star players and they beat teams "full of 5 star players"!
I think what Dabo did "in my opinion" is take some of what they did; but was able to mix in some 4 and 5 star players as well! Which got Clemson over the hump when it mattered in big games!
Anywho; last I checked; only 11 goes on the field at a time. They still only get 85 scholarship players! And, the money will start getting tighter and tighter as the years go by. Watch!
It's not like these boosters are like NFL owners and are making money directly off their investment into these players. They make their money in other ways; and giving it up to a college aged kid who may or may not be able to land your school a championship will likely get old real quick. Even for the super wealthy!
They didn't get that way by making bad decisions over and over and over again! ((((maybe they did; but caught a break somewhere along the line.....don't ruin my metaphor))))) LOL!
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All-In [30424]
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What I am reading between the lines
Apr 21, 2022, 8:15 AM
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We have a few more years being extremely competitive but then, unless the rules are changed Clemson is going to get passion average athletes and the big names are going to go with the big bucks and the barons.
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Orange Blooded [2382]
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Re: What I am reading between the lines
Apr 21, 2022, 10:28 AM
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True to a point but a football player is still a football player and he is going to want to play. How many 5 star players can a team stack before players stsrt leaving to go to a school where they can showcase their talents so they can make it into the NFL?
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All-In [30424]
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Well if the balance of power shifts to wealthy
Apr 21, 2022, 10:52 AM
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Schools there will be schools ahead of Clemson that have spots that they normally wouldn’t have … how many schools could outspend Clemson with NIL money that are not even remotely players right now?
Anyway… a kid might want to play but if he got $500k to ride pine… I know what I would pick
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CU Guru [1694]
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Re: Well if the balance of power shifts to wealthy
Apr 21, 2022, 11:06 AM
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Any of those players riding pine will eventually transfer if they truly want to and believe that they can play and be among the best in CFB. They will still have pro dreams, but will have bank in hand from the first two years of riding pine...
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110%er [6153]
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Any kid who would take money just to sit has no future in
Apr 23, 2022, 12:19 PM
[ in reply to Well if the balance of power shifts to wealthy ] |
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the game. He has no competitive spirit and the NFL folks will take note.
Back in the old days, some big schools could and would “stockpile” players on scholarship just to keep them away from competitors, but transfer rules and scholarship limits have made this impossible.
As long as the transfer rules are as loose as they are now, a kid *worth paying* is going to go where the school will pay him to play, not sit.
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CU Guru [1254]
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Re: What I am reading between the lines
Apr 21, 2022, 11:28 AM
[ in reply to Re: What I am reading between the lines ] |
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I think that there will be 5 star players stacked in one position and they will elect to play another spot to get time on the field. I predict players out of their normal role will sustain more injuries. in other words, A&M will have a big corner or safety move to linebacker. Then you will see more concussions or dislocations due to being out of position and overmatched.
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110%er [5371]
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Orange Blooded [2916]
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Passion is all fine and dandy for a few
Apr 21, 2022, 8:38 AM
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but the majority of these kids aren't going to choose a "passionate" program over one that can hand them a check worth $100K+. And who can honestly blame them? Look how much NIL has exploded in just a year. It's only going to get bigger and Clemson is in a bad spot if Neff thinks "passion" is enough to stay relevant.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: Passion is all fine and dandy for a few
Apr 21, 2022, 9:26 AM
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There is a different in "passionate and broke" and "passionate and competitive". Neff didn't say Clemson couldn't compete, he said Clemson doesn't have to win based on NIL alone. That $100k might be nice but if Clemson is offering $80k and you believe in Dabo and this program it will be enough. We already don't chase 5* players with red flags this is no different.
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CU Guru [1868]
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Re: Passion is all fine and dandy for a few
Apr 21, 2022, 12:14 PM
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Agree that we will do more with less
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110%er [7173]
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Re: Passion is all fine and dandy for a few
Apr 21, 2022, 9:21 PM
[ in reply to Re: Passion is all fine and dandy for a few ] |
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There is a different in "passionate and broke" and "passionate and competitive". Neff didn't say Clemson couldn't compete, he said Clemson doesn't have to win based on NIL alone. That $100k might be nice but if Clemson is offering $80k and you believe in Dabo and this program it will be enough. We already don't chase 5* players with red flags this is no different.
Exactly!
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Orange Blooded [4414]
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A sad day that an article like this has to be wrote.
Apr 21, 2022, 8:41 AM
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College Football is changing so quickly. That hurts for us that loved the way it use to be.
Here’s to the future though. Change was inevitable.
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All-TigerNet [10395]
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It is sad. But more articles like this, citing the Tenn,
Apr 21, 2022, 9:59 AM
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Texas, Texas A&M examples need to be written every day by multiple media outlets. I guarantee you college football power brokers such as ESPN don't want that to happen. The reason: the more average fans across the country start to see and process what's really going on in their beloved Saturday sport, the level it is getting to, the more these fans are going to ask themselves, Do I really want to be a fan of this?
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Commissioner [940]
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Re: It is sad. But more articles like this, citing the Tenn,
Apr 22, 2022, 1:31 PM
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I don't.
I don't watch the 24 year old millionaires act awful on Sunday. And I'm not going to watch a 17 year old millionaire act awful on Saturday.
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Orange Blooded [3085]
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Re: TNET: As schools buy QBs and pancake houses buy OL, can Clemson compete?
Apr 21, 2022, 8:43 AM
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I tend to be an optimist, but I think things are going to work out fine. If these Texas schools don’t win a championship over the next 3 years, these “barons” are not going to pump as much money into it. When you have a bunch of mercenaries playing on a college team with no cohesion or loyalty to the school, success will be short-term, if they have a lot of success at all. Would you continue to pump millions into the hands of entitled teenagers if you weren’t getting the return you expected??! A lot of these kids are going to fold under the pressure of millions riding on their production. This system will crumble on its own even if the rules aren’t changed. These Barons didn’t become rich by wasting money.
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110%er [9656]
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^^^Exactly.***
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Apr 21, 2022, 8:45 AM
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CU Guru [1370]
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Re: ^^^Exactly.***
Apr 21, 2022, 10:33 AM
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Agree Also, But to me its more about these Kid having that kind of money thrown at them at the age of 18 and very few of those kids are going to have the desire to put the effort in in college the way they would without 8 million in the bank. They are also going to want to spend it on fun and get into a lot of trouble. If they have millions in the bank, and unless they are a rare breed of society today, they will make all they every will as far as playing football, before they step foot on campus and before they are at the age to handle it. Also, you can bet many families will be split up, because the Mom's and Dads will want pay back. $$ the root of all evil will definitely be exposed in these young people and the greed mongers of these Universities.
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Orange Blooded [2030]
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Yep... hammer meet nail
Apr 21, 2022, 10:50 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: As schools buy QBs and pancake houses buy OL, can Clemson compete? ] |
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These kids have a hard enough time just meeting the colleges practice and academic schedule. Even at sham course colleges like UNCheat. Just wait until they knee deep in money and they have to decide whether or not to go to practice, study or hit the club and make it rain....
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110%er [8515]
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Re: TNET: As schools buy QBs and pancake houses buy OL, can Clemson compete?
Apr 21, 2022, 9:26 AM
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It is irresponsible to report that a university would spend public funds to "buy" a player. NIL funds require a W-2 or a 1099 and because public schools are required to open their books, they will not be the ones that pay players. NIL is a vehicle that allows athletes to make money and the funds will come from individuals and corporations. Will schools have influence in trying to secure money for athletes, absolutely. Everyone, including Dabo, Saban and other coaches need to be patient and see how this works out. No school has every signed every recruit they want and no school will ever sign 85 football players that are 5 Star recruits because they will not get to the NFL if they sit on the bench in college.
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All-TigerNet [10395]
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Don't play the semantics game to defend the NIL.
Apr 21, 2022, 10:04 AM
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University Boosters are buying. Is that better?
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CU Medallion [55261]
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Re: TNET: As schools buy QBs and pancake houses buy OL, can Clemson compete?
Apr 21, 2022, 10:06 AM
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With what is being said in "This article", college sports has moved into a pro sport arena, and if this is the way that it's going to be, colleges should do away with sports, and get back to it's main objective, higher education, and accept that is the way that it is after politicians, and judges stuck their noses where they shouldn't have ever been.
Honestly, I put most of the blame on the NCAA for not changing with the times when all the questions started popping up around the country about college FB players having to send their entire stipend home for their parents to pay the rent, or a light bill. They could have, should have raised the dollar amount of the stipends that college athletes received to meet the times. The stipends that most college athletes got was actually unfair when you think about all the money that the top 25 Football, and Basketball programs were bringing in, and the student athlete were stuck in a 19th century stipend allowances, with the top dogs inside the NCAA, and in conference offices, along with an army of coaches are living lavish lives from the talents of college age athletes. And the athletes are the ones that suffer through all the pains from injury, and some with pretty bad injuries.
I think that most of us saw that the NCAA wasn't going to give in to the student athletes getting a little more of the tremendous wealth that their hard work was bringing into the colleges, and the NCAA. And now what we are seeing with the NIL, are the results of the NCAA flat out refusing to share a little more of the wealth through a stipend for college athletes.
And now IMO, college sports is broken, and it should be taken out of colleges across America. And Big college FB arena's like Death Valley, they could be leased out to a Simi Pro FB teams across the nation. DV could be called Clemson Simi Pro stadium bc, it would still be in the city of Clemson
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Mascot [16]
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Re: TNET: As schools buy QBs and pancake houses buy OL, can Clemson compete?
Apr 21, 2022, 11:16 AM
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I agree with you, with the amount of money thrown around in college sports it is now looking like a minor league for the pros vs the college sports that we grew to love.
The money does not look to be slowing down, and will only continue to get worse with the $ being thrown around.
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Orange Blooded [2030]
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I'm all for idiots with too much money pooling their money
Apr 21, 2022, 10:46 AM
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and "buying" players for their college. I can't wait for the next articles about big money boosters screaming at athletes that are injured or who never live up to their NIL deals. Pulling their money from them for not bringing home trophies.
In five years these guys will be bored and find something else to waste their money on. If I was at the NCAA I would be laughing my a$$ off at these guys. The NCAA needs to be worried that these guys will pool their money and form a super league without the NCAA or even conferences.
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Oculus Spirit [79078]
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Is there any way to get more girth? I mean we all know
Apr 21, 2022, 11:07 AM
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that's what really makes the difference right? You'd think there'd be another way to pump more blood into this. I mean we have to find a way to enlarge our hogs up front, or we're going to have to sit on the sidelines and watch the big boys showcase their large endowments.
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CU Guru [1868]
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Re: Is there any way to get more girth? I mean we all know
Apr 21, 2022, 12:42 PM
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I think what graham is saying is that our fanbase is so swollen with passion that nobody is going to be able stop us from penetrating the market for elite talent and bursting all over the competitive landscape. What we’ve erected at clemson is just part of the facts of life at this point and nobody else’s girth is going to change that.
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Oculus Spirit [79078]
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Re: Is there any way to get more girth? I mean we all know
Apr 21, 2022, 1:46 PM
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Starter [394]
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Why doesn't everyone see the simple solution here?
Apr 21, 2022, 11:16 AM
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Reduce scholorships from 85 to 65. The NFL gets by with 55 on roster for a much longer schedule. The Texas can pay $10 million per player but they can only enroll so many. Problem solved.
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110%er [6153]
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Scholarship limits ...
Apr 23, 2022, 12:27 PM
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This is exactly how we got to the 85.
There was a time when a guy like Johnny Majors at Pitt would have 125 or more kids on scholarship. And he’s just one of example.
The NCAA took that advantage away.
Maybe they could do it again, as you say.
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All-TigerNet [10845]
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Re: Scholarship limits ...
Apr 23, 2022, 12:31 PM
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Scholarships are no longer required. Corporate sponsorships are the new thing.
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110%er [6153]
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Re: Scholarship limits ...
Apr 23, 2022, 1:11 PM
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The NCAA still needs to get involved. If a guy is playing football for a program, the source of his funding needs to be transparent and also, he needs to be going to class and staying on track to graduate.
This is still governable if we have a governing body to do it.
Back in the day, every county in the state of Nebraska would pay to send one football player to the Cornhuskers. These guys didn’t show up on the football scholarship numbers. This isn’t happening today and hasn’t for a long while. You can see the eventual impact of the Nebraska program by where they are now.
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Orange Blooded [2939]
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Re: TNET: As schools buy QBs and pancake houses buy OL, can Clemson compete?
Apr 21, 2022, 11:49 AM
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Don't worry, the players union will fix everything.
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Starter [353]
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It will get interesting
Apr 21, 2022, 12:06 PM
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When a DA that graduated from University Georgia school of law prosecutes a Georgia native that plays for another SEC school for failure to pay state taxes.
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Commissioner [907]
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Re: TNET: As schools buy QBs and pancake houses buy OL, can Clemson compete?
Apr 21, 2022, 12:35 PM
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I remember when Clemson was on probation. One of the major bings against us was that one of the coaches paid for a player to go see a dentist because of dental pain. As ridiculous as that was, it seems almost desirable compared to this overt purchase of players. I have always said that the SEC is "NFL-lite," but I never expected them to stoop this low. Why maintain there is anything different from professional leagues? Make them minor league teams associated with the real NFL. Baseball has always had a farm system. Dabo is the Bobby Jones of college football, and I am so glad we have him. I lost all interest in professional sports long ago because there is no motivation except for the bucks. I hope NIL and the transfer portal does not make me lose my enjoyment of college football.
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CU Guru [1923]
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Joined: 4/24/04
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We are recruiting the WRONG People! Darla Moore, Warren
Apr 21, 2022, 1:25 PM
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Buffet and that Microsoft Guy are now are targets!
Don’t forget the Saudis!
Go Tigers!
PS: GIVE DAY but to what?
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Legend [17577]
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I'd take that $8m my freshman year,
Apr 21, 2022, 2:28 PM
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invest it, and transfer to Clemson my sophomore year.
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CU Medallion [64888]
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And, since there can be nothing per the rules to tie the NIL
Apr 21, 2022, 4:53 PM
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directly to the schools, someone could do just that. Not that they would come to Clemson probably, but it wouldn't matter where they went. It wouldn't take but a couple million dollar babies doing that to get the "barons" to start keeping their money in their pockets.
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All-In [40868]
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Money talks bullchit walks***
Apr 21, 2022, 3:01 PM
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110%er [6095]
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they have always had more money than Clemson
Apr 21, 2022, 3:09 PM
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for all the good it's done them.
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CU Medallion [64888]
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Might not lure the QBs in, but I'll bet The Smoking Pig
Apr 21, 2022, 5:16 PM
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could entice them the Hail out of some offensive linemen!
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CU Guru [1143]
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Re: TNET: As schools buy QBs and pancake houses buy OL, can Clemson compete?
Apr 21, 2022, 5:22 PM
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Clemson has a great Waho...so...now we get a great offensive line?
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Freshman [10]
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Re: TNET: As schools buy QBs and pancake houses buy OL, can Clemson compete?
Apr 21, 2022, 5:39 PM
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Rich alumni dumb enough to pay for a national championship cause if it's rich alumni your looking for there's other schools that should be moving up the 247 rankings
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All-TigerNet [12529]
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Joined: 11/21/11
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Nice pep talk, but that wont get it
Apr 21, 2022, 5:46 PM
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Done. IPTAY raises $40 million. That will get one five star qb and leave 32 million left to fund all the other things IPTAY was designed for. Unless someone comes up with some limits, we will all be watching the two richest schools battle it out. And the average football fan will call it a day.
I have yet to see any indication that Clemson is is willing or able to compete at the top of this mess. Dint tell me there's a building we've built for kids to learn about NIL. .
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Walk-On [105]
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Re: TNET: As schools buy QBs and pancake houses buy OL, can Clemson compete?
Apr 21, 2022, 8:17 PM
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I can see my tickets getting more expensive. At some point, i am going to cry as i break down and abandon something i love so much.
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Orange Blooded [3649]
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It's bigger in basketball than fb***
Apr 22, 2022, 2:42 PM
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: TNET: As schools buy QBs and pancake houses buy OL, can Clemson compete?
Apr 23, 2022, 11:22 AM
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I think the best 5* players are going to go for the money and even some of the high 4*s. However, Dabo knows how to "coach up" a bunch of 4*s and solid 3*s. Where it gets dicey is when our teams make the playoffs but then you run into the loaded 5* teams and that is where we start to lose some traction. Our last two playoff losses to OSU and LSU demonstrated that difference in size, speed, and talent.
I like what Neff said about still having to compete, regardless of how we feel about the NIL, and it seems we are putting things in place to do just that. I also think IPTAY will up its game to help us out. If all this happens I think we can still be competitive and attract the right talent to Clemson.
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Legend [16186]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: TNET: As schools buy QBs and pancake houses buy OL, can Clemson compete?
Apr 27, 2022, 10:00 AM
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We shall eat pancakes off their heads.
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