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Topic: Ross vs Smith
Replies: 36   Last Post: Jan 15, 2021, 3:14 PM by: Judge Keller®
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Replies: 36  

Ross vs Smith

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 9:47 AM
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An earlier post was talking about our WR class returning and they started comparing Ross to the current Heisman winner....if you look at the stats, it is no comparison! Ross has played two years...if you take the first two years of Smith, here are the numbers:

Smith
50 rept, 853 yds, 18.25 avg, 9 tds, long 57

Ross
112 rept, 1865 yds, 17.4 avg, 17 tds, long 74

You have to compare the first two years, not Ross' first two and Smith's last two!

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Re: Ross vs Smith

[3]
Jan 15, 2021, 9:53 AM
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Ross probably played a lot more then Smith over those 2 years tho. They are 2 very different types of WRs tho

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Re: Ross vs Smith


Jan 15, 2021, 10:00 AM
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You may b e correct, but look at Smith for 3 years before last year....

118 rept, 2109 yds, 18.3 avg, 23 tds, long 85...

It took Smith three years to get better numbers than Ross in 2 years...


And Ross was not a starter the first year, but he played because he was good enough to play. If Smith did not play much his first year, then he was not good enough to play regularly, so your assertion only goes to show how good Ross is! And given the physical differences, and the ability to catch the high ball, Ross would be the WR of choice for most teams (not now, but in future).

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Re: Ross vs Smith


Jan 15, 2021, 10:02 AM
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Depends on what wr you are looking for. It's like comparing Nuk and Hill kinda. Ross is amazing but so is Smith. Smith is the real deal.

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Smith is the real deal !!!

[2]
Jan 15, 2021, 9:57 AM
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The young man can flat out play.

He was Bama's leading receiver in 2019 as well which is not too shabby considering they also had Jeudy, Ruggs, and Waddle.

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Re: Smith is the real deal !!!


Jan 15, 2021, 10:11 AM
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So, Clemson with Higgins, Rodgers, Ladson, Powell, Kendrick, Renfrow, Overton, and many others ahead of him when Ross came in....that looks pretty good too!

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Re: Smith is the real deal !!!

[2]
Jan 15, 2021, 10:18 AM
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Ladson wasn't at Clemson yet.

Kendrick was a true freshman at the same time.

Powell was a career underachiever at that point.

It was Higgins (who he didn't beat out), Renfrow (who played another position), and Overton who didn't perform at even close to a similar level to any of the guys mentioned from Bama.

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Re: Smith is the real deal !!!

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 10:24 AM
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Bio for Ladson in 2019 season, Ross' second year:

2019: Posted 128 yards and three touchdowns on nine catches in 254 snaps in 15 games … made collegiate debut vs. Georgia Tech, catching a 21-yard touchdown pass from Chase Brice on his first career reception … caught one pass vs. No. 12 Texas A&M … recorded a highlight reel seven-yard touchdown catch at Syracuse … caught a six-yard pass vs. Charlotte … made a four-yard catch vs. Florida State … caught a 13-yard pass at NC State … recorded two receptions for 20 yards and a touchdown vs. Wake Forest … caught a career-long 57-yard pass vs. No. 22 Virginia in the ACC Championship Game … ACC Honor Roll selection.

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Re: Smith is the real deal !!!

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 10:30 AM
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So Ross didn't have to beat him out.

Ross was established and was a superstar before Ladson ever set foot on campus.

Ladson can't be used to show the talent that Ross beat out for a position on the field.

Even if you could use Ladson, Ladson does not yet equal any of the listed options for Bama's team that either came in with or in front of Smith.

I am not trying to knock Ross.

I am just saying that the upcoming season will be the first time we can have a legitimate comparison between the production of Smith and Ross.

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Re: Smith is the real deal !!!

[2]
Jan 15, 2021, 10:53 AM
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If Ladson has a breakout year over the next two, then it is a good comparison...which proves my point...the first two years of Ross look better than the first two years of Smith...I understand that Smith seems to have had better competition, but you can't help but say that he did not do what Ross did during his first two years. If you were looking back, what you said about Ladson not being used to compare to Ross, could have been said about Smith his first two years, when comparing to Waddle!!!!

As to your last statement, I don't agree! Smith only has his last year of greatness to compare the stats...you are saying that Ross' third year should be his determining factor when compared to Smith's fourth year...poor comparison! Smith greatly improved his route ability the last year...give Ross the chance of two more years (won't happen, as if he comes back true to form, he will only have three years then go pro...which Smith could not do!) and I think he would be comparable to Smith!

Smith is the real deal... but I think Ross will be also, and when comparing oranges to apples (orange to crimson)!

For some reason, the guys on here think I was shooting down Smith when I stated the obvious....no, I was showing that when you correctly compare the two, then Ross is also the real deal! In no way was I knocking Smith!

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Re: Smith is the real deal !!!

[2]
Jan 15, 2021, 11:04 AM
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I think we are coming at a similar conclusion from different angles.

If you are comparing careers and stats, then another stud season from Ross puts him firmly ahead of Smith as you said.

In terms of showing star talent, I think comparing Smith's season as "the guy" can only be compared if we get to see a healthy Ross as "the guy". I do think it's worth noting that Smith only found that role after Waddle was injured in this season. There is no Heisman for him with a healthy Waddle all year.

I'm not sure 3rd season vs 4th season is a huge difference, especially when the bigger difference when comparing the two is the career threatening injury to Ross, but Smith did say he made large improvements heading into this season.

I think what we can both agree on is that we very much hope to see a completely healthy Justyn Ross play a season for the Tigers next year and turn himself into a high 1st round draft pick just as Smith just did at Bama this season.

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Re: Smith is the real deal !!!


Jan 15, 2021, 10:58 AM
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Also, Higgins and Ross were starters in 2019, so Ross did not have to "beat out" Higgins! Ross started 14 games!

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Re: Smith is the real deal !!!


Jan 15, 2021, 11:06 AM
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Yes that's what I meant when I said he didn't beat him out.

They were able to play at the same time.

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Re: Ross vs Smith

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 9:57 AM
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I love Ross - probably my favorite Clemson WR all-time, but let's be real. Stop comparing him to Smith - it's not close at this point. We can reassess after 2021 season. Smith was absolutely incredible and unstoppable even when everyone know he was getting the ball.

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Re: Ross vs Smith

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 10:20 AM
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Your problem is that you are comparing Smith using his senior year, with Ross, who only has his freshman and sophomore years! Look at the post above comparing Smith's first three years to Ross' two years...no way you can say that Smith was head over heels better than Ross without his last year included....and you may see Ross do better than Smith his last year! To so a true comparison, you never look at the senior year of a guy and compare it to another guys first two years!

I agree that with his senior year, Smith looks dominate... but your statement "Smith was absolutely incredible and unstoppable even when everyone know he was getting the ball" would also apply to Ross with all of his one handed catches and especially during the 2018 playoff games!

Yes, they are different type of receivers...Ross 6-4, Smith 6-1...Ross wins 50/50 balls, Smith runs routes...but don't you think Ross can run routes with more experience?

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It's not a contest.

[2]
Jan 15, 2021, 10:30 AM
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Both are incredibly talented athletes but they are two completely different types of players.

It would have been really fun to see Ross' development this year had he not required disc surgery.

I'm just hopeful he can play in 2021.




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They are two different types of athletes. The things that

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 10:01 AM
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Smith can do from a quickness standpoint in motion are in a different league from Ross. Smith can do the things Watkins could do. Ross to me is more like Higgins. Get it up around him and he can bring it in. Don't see Ross as the fast/quick guy, at least not yet!

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Re: Ross vs Smith

[2]
Jan 15, 2021, 10:08 AM
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These stats only prove that Bama had a much deeper WR room than Clemson for the last several seasons.

We all saw what Smith was capable of as a true freshman on the game winning play of the national championship.

We saw the same thing from Ross as a freshman.

The difference is we didn't only see it in flashes because we didn't have 3 other 1st round talents in the WR group to limit Ross' touches. We had 1 other guy in Higgins who was on that level.

We saw Smith for 1 season as THE GUY.

Next year we are hoping to get to see Ross in the same role.

Like Smith, Ross will have help around him but if he is healthy there will be no doubt who the go-to guy is on the outside for Clemson.

Let's all hope that Ross gets even close to what Smith did this season, because that will mean VERY good things for Clemson in '21!

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Re: Ross vs Smith


Jan 15, 2021, 11:08 AM
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Question for TigersO. Think I'd asked @HillRockTiger and others but it was an old thread so I never heard a response.

Anyway, for you xperts, what are the chances that Ross could be able to play our 9,5, and 2 position like they used Smith. I don't think he quite had/has the speed of Smith. Then again, I read somewhere in his rehab that he was working on his top end speed. Tia

CG - Pennsylvania

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Re: Ross vs Smith

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 11:50 AM
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Ross is not a Renfrow. Ross is a pass catcher. He is too young to compare with a route runner like Renfrow. Renfrow was a better route runner than Smith, just not fast enough to compare to Smith overall.

Ross has speed and great hands. If he can improve his route running, he will be unstoppable. But I don't think Ross will ever be the third and short type of receiver.

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Re: Ross vs Smith

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 3:07 PM
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Appreciate someone answering my question.

Hopefully spec will take a big leap or someone else develop in the slot that's physical and can get the separation. Thanks again.

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Re: Ross vs Smith

[2]
Jan 15, 2021, 10:57 AM
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Ross literally "single-handedly" beat Alabama. That would be my argument.

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Re: Ross vs Smith

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 11:16 AM
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That's not accurate.

Ross had 6 touches in that game for 153 (74 on 1 play) yards and 1 TD.

Higgins had 3 touches for 81 yards and a TD.

Travis Etienne had 15 touches for 91 yards and THREE TDs (1 receiving).

Trevor Lawrence threw for 347 yards. 194 yards to players other than Ross.

Clemson had 8 players catch passes, 7 for 10 or more yards, 5 for 25 or more yards.

Clemson also had a pick 6 and another interception in our own territory.

Ross did not take over the game and win it by himself, but his highlights are shown over and over from the game. Two of those highlight catches, a 3rd normal catch and 55 of his total yards came on the final scoring drive to push the score from 37-16 to 44-16 in the 3rd quarter which had no outcome on Clemson winning or losing the game.

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Re: Ross vs Smith

[2]
Jan 15, 2021, 11:23 AM
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Re: Ross vs Smith

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 11:29 AM
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Beautiful catch!

That was one of the ones I mentioned in the 3rd quarter.

The other was a 1-hander over the shoulder I believe for a bigger gain than the one in the picture you posted.

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Re: Ross vs Smith

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 1:20 PM
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I agree with you on the team effort....

just the single-handedly pun was too good.

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Re: Ross vs Smith

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 11:34 AM
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I agree...but...

the reason the running game was effective was because of those catches from Ross and Higgins! We all agree the reason we lost the semi against Bama the year before was because we had no down field offense with Bryant...Without that downfield game, it would have been a completely different game, and yes, I think that is the reason for the 44-16! But it was not just Ross.

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Re: Ross vs Smith

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 11:41 AM
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Exactly right!

Many people forget that it wasn't just Lawrence and Ross that were different weapons from the '17 game with Bama to the '18 game.

Higgins didn't play in the previous semifinal due to an injury suffered in practice and Etienne was injured early in the '17 loss (I think opening kickoff) and became completely ineffective while playing very little. By all accounts, both of those players were expected to be major parts of the gameplan and were removed.

After those players were out, they bracketed Cain in coverage and put everybody else to stop the run.

We had multiple free runners in the Bama secondary(shoutout to Trevion Thompson), but we sadly didn't get the ball to them when we had the chances.

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Re: Ross vs Smith

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 11:58 AM
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A simple question for you...if Ross can play like he did in the past, and maybe increase his speed during the rehab, and there are no other receivers that produce for Clemson next year (just like what happened this year at Bama)...what do you think would happen to Ross' stats this coming year?

For Smith, he was good, but when Waddle went down, he only had 28 catches. I think the next most catches after those two was Bolden at 24 for the season...WOW! Of course, Smith had a great year since he really was the only option for Jones!!!

Again, not bumping Smith, but he really stepped into a dream scenario this past year!

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Re: Ross vs Smith

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 12:20 PM
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Missed Metchie with 55 receptions

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Re: Ross vs Smith

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 12:27 PM
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Well I guess the caveat there is that Clemson wins the national title and still has a good season without any other players having significant production at WR.

Actually in looking, Metchie was just short of 1000 yards which is a pretty solid #2 WR. Harris and Waddle (in limited time) combined for 1000 more which seems reasonable.

If that were to happen at Clemson, I am guessing that Ross would finish in the 1400-1500 range for yards compared to the 1800+ for Smith.

My reasoning for that has nothing to do with Ross vs Smith but I just don't think Clemson will have a 4500 yard passer like Jones was for Bama this season.

If Clemson finishes similarly to this season around 4000(which was very pass heavy), it would cut into the available yards for Ross vs Smith.

In all honestly, I will be very happy for Ross but extremely concerned moving forward if we don't have the options next season to spread the ball around more than that. Bama only had 4 productive pass catchers and 1 was the RB.

With Clemson's roster, and if team stats are similar, I think it would be a fantastic season if Ross gets to around 1100+ for the year. He would be the 1st or 2nd WR taken in the draft in '22 if that happens.

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Re: Ross vs Smith

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 12:39 PM
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Kind of like this year for us....Rodgers, then Powell, then ETN... We really missed Ross this year!

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Re: Ross vs Smith

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 12:47 PM
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We definitely missed Ross this year!

We also combined missing Ross with losing Ladson who was emerging as our #2 WR when he started to miss time.

Powell came on strong after Ladson's exit.

It would have been interesting to see how our threats developed if Ladson remained in the rotation and Powell started to surge in performance.

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Re: Ross vs Smith

[1]
Jan 15, 2021, 1:45 PM
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Waddle got hurt early in the Tennessee game which was the 5th game of the season. In the first 4 games before that Smith had 38 catches for 483 yards and 4 touchdowns.

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Re: Ross vs Smith


Jan 15, 2021, 2:57 PM
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I'm guessing higher volume for Smith because he was used more in the screen/quick game even with Waddle healthy.

Think Rodgers and Powell comparison for Clemson. Both go-to WRs but Rodgers with a higher catch numbers because it's easier to get the ball to him short and let him go.

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Re: Ross vs Smith


Jan 15, 2021, 12:55 PM
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Smith sat behind Waddle, Juedy, and Ruggs for those years as well....

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Jan 15, 2021, 3:14 PM
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