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Xtiger, et al, after the "mess with the bull" thread
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All-In [42021]
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Xtiger, et al, after the "mess with the bull" thread
Apr 21, 2022, 11:34 PM
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110%er [6399]
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Re: Xtiger, et al, after the "mess with the bull" thread
Apr 21, 2022, 11:50 PM
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The color of the bullfighter's cloak is exquisitely ironic. The thought of a black guy being asked to vote for Peter Buttgiggles comes to mind.
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All-In [34533]
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That thread must be bothering you, just sayin***
Apr 22, 2022, 6:40 AM
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Lol. No doubt. Really odd***
Apr 22, 2022, 6:46 AM
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Hall of Famer [23973]
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All-In [42021]
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All-TigerNet [12563]
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Re: Xtiger, et al, after the "mess with the bull" thread
Apr 22, 2022, 6:59 AM
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Do we still have a spot available for a linebacker?Bull closes really well and would love the grass adjacent to the ####. Reminds me a bit of a younger Ray Lewis on PCP.
Love his aggressiveness. Would be a great asset to the team!
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110%er [8885]
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Re: Xtiger, et al, after the "mess with the bull" thread
Apr 22, 2022, 7:59 AM
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definite launch and contact to the head/neck area
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Heisman Winner [111393]
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Re: Ron Desantis Vs
Apr 22, 2022, 10:07 AM
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I love it when leftists want powerful companies to destroy their enemies. Deliciously evil.
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All-In [42021]
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Re: Ron Desantis Vs
Apr 22, 2022, 10:19 AM
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I'm still trying to figure out when people on the right think government is evil and when they think it's cool that government is going after private businesses. Help me know which situation is appropriate.
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Hall of Famer [23973]
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Re: Ron Desantis Vs
Apr 22, 2022, 10:25 AM
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Maybe when it's outside the law. I must have missed where Florida is shutting Disney down.
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All-In [42021]
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You all seem to still be missing the point
Apr 22, 2022, 10:27 AM
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DeSantis is doing this out of revenge, not sound legislative practice. To applaud this is absurd. And dangerous for people to sit back and allow government to do it.
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Hall of Famer [23973]
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Re: You all seem to still be missing the point
Apr 22, 2022, 10:44 AM
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How do you know he is doing it for revenge? Complete speculation that you present as fact. Maybe he doesn't think Disney's values align with the values of the majority of Floridians and they no longer deserve special deals funded by Floridians.
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All-In [42021]
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That's been made very clear
Apr 22, 2022, 10:48 AM
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From an article on it from the Times:
In response, Mr. DeSantis took aim at Disney, chiding it as “woke” and sending a fund-raising email to supporters saying it had “lost any moral authority to tell you what to do.” A couple of Florida legislators then began threatening to revoke Disney World’s special tax district.
He and the GOP then immediately made this move, with one representative Tweeting, "Disney is a guest in Florida. Today we remind them."
This has been made quite clear this move follows after their public sparring over this legislation.
If y'all try to claim that's not what it is, you're being disingenuous.
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Hall of Famer [23973]
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Re: That's been made very clear
Apr 22, 2022, 10:54 AM
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That Times quote seems to side with the line of thinking that it was about a difference in values and not revenge. Maybe it was about revenge. Maybe it was purely political.
'Revenge' seems like a mind plant.
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All-In [42021]
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Meh
Apr 22, 2022, 10:57 AM
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If y'all are just gonna make up reasons (and you know you're making them up) as to why DeSantis did this and try to pretend that it's not a retaliation, then there's no point in debating it. You're just becoming a mouthpiece for your team politics.
I'm sure we'll hear a different story when a Dem governor or president does something like this.
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Hall of Famer [23973]
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Re: Meh
Apr 22, 2022, 11:01 AM
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I haven't made anything up. You are entitled to your opinion of the situation.
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All-In [42021]
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Heh, okay man
Apr 22, 2022, 11:10 AM
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DeSantis called a special session and they pushed the Disney legislation up suddenly out of the blue. This wasn't being discussed at all until Disney opposed the other law. You're telling me it's just a happy coincidence?
But here's a quote from a rep that proves it wasn't, from the Orlando Weekly:
House sponsor Randy Fine, R-Brevard County, said the proposal is designed to address all six special districts, which would be able to ask the Legislature next year to be re-established. But he acknowledged that the controversy about Disney’s stance on the gender-identity and sexual-orientation law helped spur the Legislature to look at the special districts.
“When you poke the bear or you kick the bees’ nest, sometimes issues come out,” Fine told the House State Affairs Committee.
As always, thanks for playing.
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Hall of Famer [23973]
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Re: Heh, okay man
Apr 22, 2022, 11:22 AM
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That doesn't mean it was just about opposing the bill. Part of opposing the bill could very well be linked to a what the current elected government in FL believes is in opposition to FL values.
The whole argument that this is about Revenge because you don't support the Fascist's bill, seems like simplistic programming coming from the light box.
You're welcome.
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All-In [26888]
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This is plainly about revenge for Disney crossing the
Apr 22, 2022, 11:26 AM
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administration. Instead of being dishonest about it, just come out and say you're fine with the retribution. It doesn't make supporting the bill all that more worse for one's "conservative" principles.
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Hall of Famer [23973]
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Re: This is plainly about revenge for Disney crossing the
Apr 22, 2022, 11:32 AM
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I haven't been dishonest about it. I've said I don't know the reasoning. You don't know the reasoning either. And it's NOT the reason that has been given. The liar is the one that says they know for sure that 'revenge' is the reason. That's who is the liar.
Message was edited by: p6fuller®
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All-In [26888]
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Use your eyes, ears, and brain. We know the reason.***
Apr 22, 2022, 11:34 AM
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Hall of Famer [23973]
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Re: Use your eyes, ears, and brain. We know the reason.***
Apr 22, 2022, 11:46 AM
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That tells me it's about a corporation using it's power and money to try to control a state, and the elected officials of that state saying that's not going to happen.
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All-In [26888]
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I'm guessing you take the progressive position on
Apr 22, 2022, 12:06 PM
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Citizens United?
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Hall of Famer [23973]
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Re: I'm guessing you take the progressive position on
Apr 22, 2022, 12:13 PM
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Not sure what that means. I think the ruling on the Citizens United was the correct legal decision but bad for the country.
Message was edited by: p6fuller®
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All-In [26888]
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Fair enough. That's a consistent position with your comment
Apr 22, 2022, 1:19 PM
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above.
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Hall of Famer [23973]
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Re: I'm guessing you take the progressive position on
Apr 22, 2022, 12:18 PM
[ in reply to I'm guessing you take the progressive position on ] |
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My decision making process is not segmented into progressive or conservative. We would serve ourselves well if more people started thinking beyond those terms. It seems like good ideas and bad ideas end up going one way or the other. And once the idea goes in the other direction, the opposing side must demonize the idea no matter the merits.
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Hall of Famer [23973]
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Re: Use your eyes, ears, and brain. We know the reason.***
Apr 22, 2022, 11:52 AM
[ in reply to Use your eyes, ears, and brain. We know the reason.*** ] |
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I doubt the 24 elected officials involved in the revocation of Disney's special land deal all did it for the exact same reason. That's just not real world thinking.
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-In [42021]
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EAJ explained that in another post
Apr 22, 2022, 10:53 AM
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This was all set up a long time ago to help Disney infuse the economy and not put a strain on local governments as the park was built on an area that, leading up Disney World, was seen to be pretty worthless. All of this benefited the state of Florida and local governments greatly.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: EAJ explained that in another post
Apr 22, 2022, 12:16 PM
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All-In [26888]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Because privatizing government services where it works and
Apr 22, 2022, 12:13 PM
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All-In [26888]
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It didn't make sense for Disney?
Apr 22, 2022, 1:18 PM
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I don't recall any discussion about the current situation in the context that things weren't working.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: It didn't make sense for Disney?
Apr 22, 2022, 3:43 PM
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All-In [26888]
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That's a consistent position if your appreciation for the
Apr 22, 2022, 3:52 PM
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First Amendment is fluid. I'm not saying that in a judging way, but that's the only premise that makes this work.
To reframe, the government may act against private entities if the speech of said entities falls outside of the current subjective understanding of popular opinion of a majority of voters (again, subjectively, since that sentiment cannot be objectively measured).
Otherwise, one might say it runs afoul of viewpoint discrimination by a State actor.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: That's a consistent position if your appreciation for the
Apr 22, 2022, 7:42 PM
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All-In [26888]
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The state initiating action against a private person/entity
Apr 22, 2022, 8:36 PM
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based on content on speech is viewpoint discrimination.
And yes, it can't be measured to any degree of certainty. Everything you said above is about as reliable as exit polling, phone calls surveys, self-reported feedback, etc. You can't possibly be serious that anything like that would measure public sentiment to a reliable degree wherein to determine whether speech prevails government action. Nor should it. Free speech does not hinge on popular opinion, and to suggest otherwise is an incredibly illiberal, anti-American position on the most important constitutional right we have.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: The state initiating action against a private person/entity
Apr 22, 2022, 8:47 PM
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All-In [26888]
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We're not talking about anyone else except you.
Apr 22, 2022, 8:49 PM
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Defend your position. Defend your assertion that popular sentiment plays a role in what is protected speech.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: We're not talking about anyone else except you.
Apr 22, 2022, 8:53 PM
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All-In [26888]
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No, you said:
Apr 22, 2022, 8:55 PM
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"However once they enter the public arena of politics and start backing ideas that don’t have the support of a majority of FL voters, then I think it’s fair for the FL govt to say hey you need to be reined back into the system."
I want to hear you argue that, which as I said, is stating that degree to which speech is protected depends on popular sentiment at the time said speech is made.
Defend that specific point. You can forget about everything else. This is the part I am most interested in.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: No, you said:
Apr 22, 2022, 9:46 PM
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All-In [26888]
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Okay, so is this a fair assessment of your views?
Apr 22, 2022, 9:49 PM
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The government may initiate action against a private person/entity based on a disagreement with their protected speech, even though this either is a) unconstitutional, or b) at a minimum, weakens free speech, because the hedge on bad actors is the democratic process.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Okay, so is this a fair assessment of your views?
Apr 22, 2022, 10:05 PM
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All-In [26888]
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Re: Okay, so is this a fair assessment of your views?
Apr 22, 2022, 10:29 PM
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We can leave it at that. But my final impression would be that you are not a free speech absolutist, and you believe the government has the right to dissolve contract/relationships for something like a viewpoint disagreement.
Which is all fine. I was just trying to dig down to your core beliefs at work here.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Ron Desantis Vs
Apr 22, 2022, 9:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: Ron Desantis Vs ] |
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I think the consensus from the right ( and left) is not that the government is evil, but flooded with career, greedy politicians that care more for their own personal interest instead of giving a crap for American people. I don’t think by nature they are evil, I just have zero faith in them. Look at our presidential candidates, the perception of the US in the eyes of other world leaders. To them we are a joke. Prove me wrong.
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Heisman Winner [111393]
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Wait, who just caused DIsney Investers to lose a fortune in
Apr 22, 2022, 10:22 AM
[ in reply to Re: Ron Desantis Vs ] |
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the markets? You think this will go over well with their exceptional powerful BOD, major shareholders, etc...?
the only Crime Disney is guilty of is using LBGT characters and themes in their movies, something they have been already doing for decades.
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All-In [42021]
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It's quite a headscratcher...
Apr 22, 2022, 10:26 AM
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To see "conservatives" cheering on big government taking vengeful actions against a private business for political beliefs and then somehow making the private business the bad guy. Or making it about "equality".
They would be screaming and crying if government did this to a business for supporting Trump or something. The hypocrisy is thick and ripe.
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Hall of Famer [23973]
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Re: Wait, who just caused DIsney Investers to lose a fortune in
Apr 22, 2022, 10:38 AM
[ in reply to Wait, who just caused DIsney Investers to lose a fortune in ] |
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Now you're worried about a $230 billion corporation losing money - that's rich.
I'm not even making a moral judgment on Disney (although everything they touch, IMO, turns to garbage) or DeSantis and FL legislature. But FL government has the right to take away special land deals. If Floridians don't like what is happening then they can elect someone else.
I'm not even a big DeSantis fan. Mainly because I don't really know too much about him. But for some folks on this board to think this is fascist and to compare the man to Putin, is absurd to a level for me to think, "if those people are voting one way, I couldn't possibly be voting in that same direction."
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All-In [42021]
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Re: Wait, who just caused DIsney Investers to lose a fortune in
Apr 22, 2022, 10:41 AM
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But FL government has the right to take away special land deals.
They do. But how they're doing it should be disturbing to all Americans.
But for some folks on this board to think this is fascist and to compare the man to Putin, is absurd to a level for me to think, "if those people are voting one way, I couldn't possibly be voting in that same direction."
If we're talking hyperbole, how about DeSantis's spokesperson calling anyone who opposes the LGBT school law a "groomer". That's why some of our clowns here keep spouting that word. Look at CharlestonTom.
Again, more reason to dislike the guy and YES, that's an authoritarian move.
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Hall of Famer [23973]
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Re: Wait, who just caused DIsney Investers to lose a fortune in
Apr 22, 2022, 10:49 AM
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When you think a legal action taken by elected officials is authoritarian, then I realize you don't know what that word really means.
You may not like it, but it's not authoritarian or faaaaascist.
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All-In [42021]
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When a governor (or president) becomes a pouty baby
Apr 22, 2022, 10:56 AM
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Because a company opposes his legislation, and then he uses his power to harm that business as a retaliation, YES, that's authoritarian. And YES, it does dabble into fascism as the whole economic structure of fascism opposed the free market and required businesses to comply with their ideology.
I dunno, maybe read a book on it.
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Hall of Famer [23973]
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Re: When a governor (or president) becomes a pouty baby
Apr 22, 2022, 11:07 AM
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Ok then - he's Nero - LMAO
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110%er [7075]
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Re: When a governor (or president) becomes a pouty baby
Apr 22, 2022, 3:46 PM
[ in reply to When a governor (or president) becomes a pouty baby ] |
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Maybe this coming example was before your time ... if so, then wouldn't expect you to remember.
Example 1 (Today's situation --- Desantis pushes for sunset of Disney's special tax district)
FL Gov (Desantis) punishing a private entity (Disney) when the private entity's expressions to the public (glorifying LGBTQ via favorable characters in their shows). Is there 'proof' that Desantis' move to remove special tax district status from Disney due primarily to a desire to punish Disney? No, there is no proof of this. Reasonable minds can deduce that Desantis wanted to knock Disney down a few notches ... but there is no way to prove this. The "punishment" is associated with Disney's crossing Desantis, but there is nothing illegal about the punishment.
Example 2 (Previous situation --- 1997 IRS audits of Fox News on-air talent)
Internal Revenue Service (during Bill Clinton's 2nd term) conducts frequent audits on Fox News talent starting in 1997. IRS Commissioner Charles Rossotti was appointed by Bill Clinton in 1997 to the normal 5 year term. No such high-frequency IRS audits were conducted on the on-air talent of pro-Clinton networks (CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, and MSNBC). Was this 'proof' of that Bill Clinton had directed Rossotti to conduct audits on Fox News talent as part of Rossotti's 'credentials' during the 1997 job interview? No proof. Again, reasonable minds can deduce that Clinton wanted to knock Fox News down a few notches, and used the Fed. Gov't bureaucracy to do this ... but there is no way to prove it.
Conclusion: There is a lot of shady ground (morally) from these practices of powerful gov't using the power of their office to punish private entities. Proving illegality ... or discrimination ... is an entirely different matter.
SUMMARY: Both Republicans and Democrats do this sort of thing. You don't have to like it, but it's pure BS to pretend that only one side does it. Parsing the details doesn't help either; get active in your preferred political party's primary process if you want to try to make a difference.
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All-In [42021]
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Re: When a governor (or president) becomes a pouty baby
Apr 22, 2022, 6:05 PM
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SUMMARY: Both Republicans and Democrats do this sort of thing. You don't have to like it, but it's pure BS to pretend that only one side does it. Parsing the details doesn't help either; get active in your preferred political party's primary process if you want to try to make a difference.
I never said it wasn't bipartisan abuse. In fact, I would expect this to be more commonly done by the Dems and cheered by their supporters, not people who claim to be conservative. It's not something we need in America. Y'ALL are the ones supporting this move. It's wrong. There is no gray area here.
I don't have a preferred party. Right now, one is acting stupid and incompetent (Dems) and the other is acting like a downright sinister entity bent on taking over the nation and pissing on freedom. Take your pick, I guess.
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110%er [7075]
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You done it Cat ... we be aligned
Apr 23, 2022, 12:18 AM
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Sum beach ... Cat Man you found the common ground with The Danny.
You got me in a good mood ...
Friday night and I'm feeling charitable ... goin' to find some hookers and give them a free puff on my magic dragon.
C-ya!
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Heisman Winner [111393]
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Re: Wait, who just caused DIsney Investers to lose a fortune in
Apr 22, 2022, 11:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: Wait, who just caused DIsney Investers to lose a fortune in ] |
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I am not worried about anything, I am just pointing out that you do not fugg with powerful people's money in this country when you are just a vindictive, pissant governor. And when you guys sit around bemoaning the left's culture wars, that is literally what we are witnessing here, but from the right.
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Re: Wait, who just caused DIsney Investers to lose a fortune in
Apr 22, 2022, 12:03 PM
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That's all probably true. I actually think this is a political gamble by DeSantis. I don't know a ton about the man, but from what I've seen of him he is pretty sharp and a politician's politician. I think he wants this fight.
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Re: Wait, who just caused DIsney Investers to lose a fortune in
Apr 22, 2022, 12:45 PM
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well, I remember Mr. Moderate Ron when he ran for governor. I imagine he would resurface in a general election. But this is a really dumb fight on so many levels, I mean the Taxpayers are now going to have to foot the bill, and of course, the state would now have the ability to go in and Tell Disney that nothing is up to code. This could get interesting, but I am still contend that he is trying to wrestle the Evangelicals away from Trump, I mean you need their blessing to get the nod, as I seem to recall Dubya having to become born again, and Trump being asked to hold a bible without catching on fire. Ron is taking on Big Bad Anti Christian Disney.
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Re: Wait, who just caused DIsney Investers to lose a fortune in
Apr 22, 2022, 1:11 PM
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Hold a bible without catching on fire... Bout made me spray my midday coffee.
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Re: Ron Desantis Vs
Apr 22, 2022, 10:58 AM
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I mean, you can get all the tax breaks you want as long as you're sticking it to the right people.
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Re: Ron Desantis Vs
Apr 22, 2022, 12:14 PM
[ in reply to Ron Desantis Vs ] |
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See, I actually like National Review a lot...it's highly conservative - it's got a right-to-far-right rating - but it's always extremely well-written, thoughtful, fact-based, and comes at the world through a rational lens. It's got a transparent ownership group and funding, it's transparent about its own bias and the lens through which it views the world, and it does not service the sort of dumb tribal Fascist populism we see dominating the GOP nowadays.
It's a very different viewpoint than most of the MSM, but it's rational, conscientious conservatism.
And the truth it tells in that article you posted are highly instructive...namely, that DeSantis is hitting a winner on this cultural issue. And culture wars are grist to the ever-more-populist MAGA-driven GOP, who don't know much about much, but certainly can be stirred over cultural grievances. This article also said something really interesting: even the majority of Democrats - 59% - are apparently open to a "family friendly" alternative to Disney right now because they're uneasy about sexuality being taught in schools to younger children, and they're uncomfortable with the normalizing of certain varieties of sexual identity below a certain age as well, and don't seem to much like the idea of it being broadcast right into their kids' eyeballs.
Careful, Disney. On this one, it may not be DeSantis who's alone in being "out over his skis", as Abigail Disney said.
Dems - and Disney - maybe need to take note of that number, and pump the brakes on their Wokeism a bit. Granted, they do absolutely need to take the knife to DeSantis because of how retaliatory and ham-handed he was (and they absolutely will), but they also probably need to acknowledge the fact that the reason DeSantis is doing it is precisely because the highly populist DeSantis noted the wedge in public opinion between what the public actually wanted...and what Disney was actually advocating. And bludgeoned the House of Mouse right over the head with it.
He's doing it because it plays. Plain and simple.
Disney need to make nice with their consumers, and acknowledge and placate parental fears...and tone it down. (And then show DeSantis what happens when he effs with the Goliath That Is Disney.)
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Re: Ron Desantis Vs
Apr 22, 2022, 1:26 PM
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I agree with most of that. I think he wants to look like David fighting Goliath. From a purely political lens, in this day and age, it may be brilliant. It gets a vocal left supporting a large corporation over a hot button social issue, that I suspect a lot of Independents would side with DeSantis. I don't think this guy is a dummy.
Then again, he may just be crushed by a behemoth...or maybe a leviathan, in Disney's case.
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Re: Ron Desantis vs Disney: Can Disney 'salt the earth'?
Apr 22, 2022, 4:02 PM
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Disney cannot do any more via use of their on-air business (ESPN, ABC / ABC News) to attempt to harm Desantis or the Republican party. Disney has maxed out their anti-Republican propaganda via these platforms. If they go much further, then they'll risk tracking the Twitter trajectory (where's the applause for alliteration?) towards continual decline.
Disney can still do a bit more entertainment / movies with anti-Republican 'values' themes, but at risk of getting a Netflix type business reversal.
Is Disney run so poorly (like Twitter & Netflix) that distraction with the Matador's cape (Desantis) overwhelms Disney's focus on what really should matter to them (running their business correctly)?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
No, for Disney to hurt Desantis and FL, they've got to find a way to get out of Florida in a way that their (giant) FL footprint isn't captured on the cheap by some other important business (or worse, by a competitor to Disney's entertainment and lodging business). Can Disney 'salt the earth' so to speak?
I'm certainly not the guy to suggest about how (or if) Disney can pull this off. Maybe some of you others have some ideas.
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