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Rock Defender [60]
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Recruits Perspective-
Jun 14, 2022, 10:11 AM
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In full disclosure my son is a verbal commit to the Baseball Program
He had dozens and dozens of verbal offers including many SEC and most of the ACC schools.
We visited the school twice, did admissions tours, hung out on college avenue and immersed himself into the experience.
We repeated this a few times at other schools before he made his commitment to Coach Lee.
A few things-
Lee is very well liked and respected by other coaches.
When we made the commitment and informed others-they had a lot to positive things to say about Lee.
Lecroy is huge in the summer ball scene. Losing him and his contacts would be a major blow. He is the one who spends hour after hour working with the kids, texting, checking in etc.
Club ball is played in the South-if you do not have a guy like Lecroy it will hurt.
Clemson has an amazing ball park, and solid club house. What they do not have is the "pitching labs" that you see about at Vandy and Wake- two other spots we toured. Nor the hitting labs.
The high tech tools that are needed to compete at the National Level.
I would have rather seen Clemson invest into those things- they have the space- and mandate changes on staff including a more polished pitching coach from Driveline/Baseball Ranch, etc think Scott Brown at Vandy and the work he does in that lab, and the same tools for the offensive side.
Have Lee/Lecroy oversee this transition, make changes on staff and finish out the two remaining years. But instead they pulled the plug. I am guessing they will now pay a more expensive coach while updating their technology.
I would expect the program to be cleaned out over the next few weeks. One 22' commit already is out, and I am glad the school released them from their Letter of Intent. More will follow- schools are calling and messaging my son for the past few weeks since the news broke.
The existing roster will also continue to move on.
They are saying the right things to the commits but also acknowledging the uncertainty.
If Lecroy is sent packing, a lot of commits will decommit- these are his guys more then anyone's.
There is some chatter about Lee going after ACC/SEC openings or joining a staff- that would get interesting quick.
There is also talk there will be a new coach in place as soon as this week and no later than the end of the CWS- when summer recruiting season gets hot.
I am happy to answer any questions I can.
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110%er [5388]
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Re: Recruits Perspective-
Jun 14, 2022, 10:20 AM
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Thank you so much for the information. I am not happy to read about the lack of pitching and hitting labs at Clemson. First basketball now baseball. Hopefully Neff gets all of this straightened out.
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All-In [43992]
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This is the downside to all of the beating of our chest we do
Jun 14, 2022, 1:46 PM
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about being a football school.
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Freshman [-79]
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Basketball has everything needed to do better
Jun 21, 2022, 10:59 AM
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No excuses.
We've had the players, facilities, and fans to win more the than two tournament games and finish i the top 40 only twice in 12 years. Please stop repeating the same tired and defeated excuses. It's lame. Thank you.
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Orange Blooded [3427]
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Thanks for this!
Jun 14, 2022, 10:23 AM
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Very informative. I am sure its a hard time to be your son. Hopefully everything works out for him and your family.
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Recruit [91]
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Re: Recruits Perspective-
Jun 14, 2022, 10:30 AM
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Through my experience in college coaching (admittedly only as a D3 recruiting coordinator) over the years I have seen schools and certain coaches go "All in" on the analytical side of baseball. Coach Walter is one of those guys, as I've worked many camps for him. I have also seen some schools be a little later to that party because of lack of belief in it. Coach Oak at UVA and Mac their hitting coach do not rely as heavily on technology for their hitting "lab" which is another place I've worked plenty of camps.
So I guess my question is, how much of Clemson's lack of technology use in their development areas a "Baseball commitment issue" at Clemson vs. it being just something Coach Lee didn't advocate for? I've never worked a camp for coach Lee so I've never spoken to him about it. Just an honest question.
Anytime in sports when you lose an RC (especially in baseball when you can only have 3 coaches recruiting on the road) you're gonna lose recruits. I do agree that I think they need to keep LeCroy, though, he recruits his butt off.
There also needs to be some fixes in the program from a baseball fundamental standpoint as well.
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Rock Defender [60]
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Re: Recruits Perspective-
Jun 14, 2022, 10:56 AM
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That is a question that I have no insight on.
I do not know if Coach Lee is a believer vs non-believer of the uses of modern tech.
What I can share is these kids are all on social media and all follow each other and end up at the same places (tournaments/showcases) each summer. They use technology a ton and a lot train with it. They see their analytics at all the showcases they attend from PG, PBR and others.
They know they spin rates, exit velo, launch angles etc. They know if they release their fastball in the same place as their off speed pitches.
When you tour an Ole Miss, Vandy, Wake, even a mid major like JMU, etc they focus a lot on their ability to develop you and how technology is at the fore front of those efforts. How they use measurables to make adjustments and track progress. They also let you know this is a differentiator then CU.
Clemson has a trackman on their field. They certainly use analytics. But it not used or marketed to the same level in recruiting or expressed by the current players to recruits.
My expectation is that we will hear more and more about this in the coming weeks.
I think question is a good one- what was Lee's position on integrating more and more technology??
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All-In [48116]
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Re: Recruits Perspective-
Jun 14, 2022, 11:25 AM
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I hope you and your family will stay committed to Clemson. Only a couple people know the conversations between Neff and Lee and I'd have to take a good guess from seeing how basketball was handled and the dismissal of Coach Lee that both were not on the same page.
I do know from player's parents that Monte is very well respected and a good bit loved the fact he'd recruit in state. I will trust AD Neff is well aware of the issues you so poignantly laid out and a plan will be in place to remedy these issues... Otherwise, he'd have never pulled the trigger. Neff won't cave to donor whims.
Thank you again for sharing.
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Recruit [91]
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Re: Recruits Perspective-
Jun 14, 2022, 11:38 AM
[ in reply to Re: Recruits Perspective- ] |
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Jimmy Jackson at JMU is top notch, always gotten the most out of his guys. Glad to hear you've had the opportunity to visit JMU and that staff as well. Best of luck to your boy.
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Orange Blooded [2336]
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Re: Recruits Perspective-
Jun 15, 2022, 10:02 AM
[ in reply to Re: Recruits Perspective- ] |
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How did baseball exist without analytics I believe it was Willie Stargell that said, see the ball,hit the ball.
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Orange Blooded [3612]
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Re: Recruits Perspective-
Jun 15, 2022, 12:23 PM
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When Jeff Francouer was with the Braves he had a tremendous start, then cooled off drastically as scouting reports began to be accumulated.
The story goes that Chipper tried to introduce him to analytics--with disastrous results--before Frenchie eventually gave up and just went back to "See ball, hit ball."
Too bad. Frenchie had as many natural tools as anybody I've ever seen. If he could have developed his mind, he could have been incredible.
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CU Medallion [51920]
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Re: Recruits Perspective-
Jun 14, 2022, 10:49 AM
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Thank you for your eye-opening post. Hopefully, our AD is aware.
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All-In [48116]
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Re: Recruits Perspective-
Jun 14, 2022, 10:57 AM
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Thank you. I hope we keep Lecroy. Was told last summer by a couple players how valuable he is.
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110%er [6878]
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Re: Recruits Perspective-
Jun 14, 2022, 11:02 AM
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Thanks for your helpful insight.
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All-In [27363]
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Baseball lovers perspective .....
Jun 14, 2022, 1:18 PM
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I’ve never coached or played at a high level but have been an AVID baseball fan and follower for more than 65 years. I think that I know the ins and outs of baseball as well as anyone. When I was ten years old I was the coach of my little league team because no adult in my church league would take the job. The game has changed considerably since the early 50’s but the basics of the game are much the same. There are times in a game when, as a coach, you can affect the game considerably by making good decisions. There is a time when you bunt, or steal, or shift the field or a dozen other fundamental that a good coach knows and uses. There is a way to play WINNING baseball and coach Lee rarely did these things. You do not need all the updated gadgets to be a good team. You need players who are taught to win and play smartl and play as a team. I haven’t seen this at Clemson in a while.
There are ways to advance runners. There are ways to correct your swing. You can control how your opponent plays if you really know the game...
Pitching coaches and hitting coaches are a great luxury for a manager if they know how to teach the game.
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Asst Coach [710]
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Re: Baseball lovers perspective .....
Jun 14, 2022, 2:01 PM
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I’ve never coached or played at a high level but have been an AVID baseball fan and follower for more than 65 years. I think that I know the ins and outs of baseball as well as anyone. When I was ten years old I was the coach of my little league team because no adult in my church league would take the job. The game has changed considerably since the early 50’s but the basics of the game are much the same. There are times in a game when, as a coach, you can affect the game considerably by making good decisions. There is a time when you bunt, or steal, or shift the field or a dozen other fundamental that a good coach knows and uses. There is a way to play WINNING baseball and coach Lee rarely did these things. You do not need all the updated gadgets to be a good team. You need players who are taught to win and play smartl and play as a team. I haven’t seen this at Clemson in a while.
There are ways to advance runners. There are ways to correct your swing. You can control how your opponent plays if you really know the game...
Pitching coaches and hitting coaches are a great luxury for a manager if they know how to teach the game.
I coach legion and I coached hs private and public. I coached middle school. I played d2. I have friends throughout and also coaches. Many who are hof ers. I also worked at a d1 program. Very well said. Many don’t know the ins and outs. I saw this from a staff side at a d1 program. It opened my eyes.
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All-In [27363]
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Re: Baseball lovers perspective .....
Jun 14, 2022, 8:04 PM
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Thank you. You can’t put nine guys on the field and say “go win this game”! Baseball isn’t like that and never will be! You show them AND teach them in practice all the little things that help you be successful.
One of my most favorite memory’s from youth baseball is my first team as a coach. In the first game of the season I had a youngster who struck out with the winning runs on base. He came to the dugout crying because he had failed! All the other players thought this was very funny and gave the kid a hard time for crying. I immediately took the team to one end of the dugout and told them loudly that I if have nine guys who cry when we lose …, we will not lose many games. We only lost one other game that season! Baseball is a team game of good individual guys who all do their job. Easy to say!
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Oculus Spirit [79990]
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Thanks for sharing.***
Jun 14, 2022, 1:49 PM
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All-In [48116]
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Re: Recruits Perspective-
Jun 15, 2022, 8:06 AM
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I hope you will give us your input/perspective and decision on our new hire.
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Rock Defender [60]
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Re: Recruits Perspective-
Jun 15, 2022, 10:21 AM
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Here is some knee jerk reaction from my son and the text group of his grad year CU Commits
No one seems to hate the hire, no one seems to love the hire, its pretty meh.
"If he got the job he is likely a good coach" is the comment.
None of them were recruited by UM so they have no direct experience.
They looked at the UM roster and saw only a handful of "southern" players.
Definitely not well know in those circuits.
Summer clubs will have a lot of influence over these kids in the coming weeks.
No one hears anything about how advanced UM technology or player development is/was.
The biggest fear is Lecroy is gone as he is bringing in his recruiting coordinator.
Some are anxiously waiting to hear from the new staff and Lecroy.
They think this signals a longer term rebuild.
The text group believes more and more guys will leave the current team and decommit.
He said some of the more active kids in the chat haven't been commenting
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CU Medallion [51920]
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Re: Recruits Perspective-
Jun 15, 2022, 12:36 PM
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Bakich did spend a year on the Clemson coaching staff, was an assistant at Vanderbilt, and played at ECU. He knows about Clemson and recruiting in the south. So, there's that. Obviously, I hope they all decide to stay with the program but wish them well if they decide otherwise.
Message was edited by: TigerzzRoar®
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CU Guru [1681]
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Re: Recruits Perspective-
Jun 15, 2022, 12:42 PM
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Bakich never coached at ECU in any capacity. He was Vandy's recruiting coordinator for 6 years though.
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CU Medallion [51920]
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Re: Recruits Perspective-
Jun 15, 2022, 12:58 PM
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Correction made. I had Vandy in my mind, but the fingers did not receive the message.
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Standout [303]
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Re: Recruits Perspective-
Jun 15, 2022, 12:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: Recruits Perspective- ] |
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Thanks for the abundance of knowledge and the unique insight you shared in this post. I hope Clemson remains the best fit for your son. If not, I wish you and him all the success in the world. You both would be great, and welcomed, ambassadors to our beloved Tigers and the universty. It's evident by your level-headed assessment and pragmatic approach to the situation, that your son probably deals with high stress situations very well. I bet the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. That approach lends itself well to high level baseball.
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CU Medallion [64977]
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Give us your first impression of Coach Backich when you meet
Jun 15, 2022, 8:10 AM
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him. As the father of a recruit, you should get to hear his plans going forward.
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CU Medallion [55300]
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Re: Recruits Perspective-
Jun 15, 2022, 10:34 AM
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With the events that has happen this past month with our baseball program, I don't think that anyone would blame your son if he chose to go else where. But who knows, the events of this past month may, and probably will put our baseball program back where it should be, and that's super regionals, and the CWS. Go Tiger baseball!!!!
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CU Guru [1279]
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Re: Recruits Perspective-
Jun 15, 2022, 2:49 PM
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Definitely appreciate the insight. Hope your son and the others decide to stay committed.
Would love to hear back once your son and the others have had a chance to get a feel for the new staff.
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