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Trainer [38]
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Question about Israel and Christianity
May 23, 2021, 8:56 AM
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Anytime there is a conflict with the nation of Israel you start hearing chatter about the end of times. The Bible says that Israel will eventually be “redeemed”....
What does this mean exactly? Who is Israel? Is it the current physical nation? Is it all ethnic Jews? Does it include all Jews that have ever lived or just the ones currently living?
Also, why would the creator of the world choose one group of people to be “his people”? Seems like he would give everyone the same equal chance to be redeemed instead of making it about the luck of the draw. I mean If you are born in the Bible Belt you obviously have a much better chance of becoming a Christian and if you are Jewish you will be saved regardless...
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Hall of Famer [24687]
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"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled..."***
May 23, 2021, 9:35 AM
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Orange Blooded [4005]
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Re: Question about Israel and Christianity
May 23, 2021, 9:41 AM
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It's frowned upon within the Christian community to ask too many questions.
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Legend [17860]
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Re: Question about Israel and Christianity
May 23, 2021, 1:49 PM
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Please don't refer to Mormons as Christian. Thanks.
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All-TigerNet [13006]
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Re: Question about Israel and Christianity
May 23, 2021, 9:44 AM
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Ummm...your religious leaders of Liberalism said the world will end in 12 years. Don’t worry yourself with the Bible.
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Hall of Famer [23969]
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Re: Question about Israel and Christianity
May 23, 2021, 9:52 AM
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We're down to 10 years at this point
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110%er [5647]
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110%er [5647]
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Well that's supposed to be time-stamped for the UFO question
May 23, 2021, 9:48 AM
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at 33:30.
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Orange Blooded [3039]
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Orange Blooded [4005]
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Re: Question about Israel and Christianity
May 23, 2021, 2:16 PM
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Laughable nonsense like this is what's driving more people to be agnostic.
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Orange Blooded [3039]
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Re: Question about Israel and Christianity
May 23, 2021, 2:44 PM
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Fair enough. Share with us your interpretation of Paul's words. Not what YOU think of the situation but what you think Paul was saying in Romans.
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Orange Blooded [4005]
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Re: Question about Israel and Christianity
May 23, 2021, 6:36 PM
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I don't have any interpretation for Paul's words what evidence do I have that his writings are accurate and that he wasn't delusional? What I do question is why would a "all loving" being make a stipulation that the only way to receive salvation is through Christ, but allow a certain population, through no other act or achievement other than where they are born, salvation despite turning their back on Christ and labeling him a fraud? Wouldn't a God understand that humans are products of where they are born and where they are raised? Would he not understand that a boy born in North Carolina to Christian parents will probably be a Christian? A young boy born in Tel Aviv to Jewish parents will probably be a Jew, or a boy born in Iran a Muslim? How about the millions of people who have lived and died and never even heard of Jesus Christ? You don't find all this laughable?
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Orange Blooded [3039]
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Re: Question about Israel and Christianity
May 24, 2021, 7:05 AM
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Laughable? No. I just accept there are things I can't answer. I imagine you see that as a cop-out. I have to remind myself when I have one of those - Why doesn't God ____"? moments that he is God, I'm not, and trust in his perfect judgment. I'm sure none of this makes much sense to you. I'm just trying to explain how I accept things I cannot resolve.
I also cannot offer any evidence as to Paul's state of mind at the time he wrote Romans (or anything else). I suspect if I magically could, you'd find some other reason to discount Paul.
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Orange Blooded [4005]
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Re: Question about Israel and Christianity
May 24, 2021, 9:54 AM
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Then we both agree that things don't add up or don't have a rational explanation. I just view it as laughable and you view it as things that can't be explained. Cheers.
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Trainer [38]
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Re: Question about Israel and Christianity
May 23, 2021, 4:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: Question about Israel and Christianity ] |
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After reading the first few sentences of your link I already have a burning question...
Why would the creator of the world, who supposedly wants everyone to believe in him, make his word hard to understand.
Seems like he would make everything perfectly clear.
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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Re: Question about Israel and Christianity
May 23, 2021, 6:11 PM
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What part are you struggling with and is it due to the King's English or gleaning spiritual understanding?
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Trainer [38]
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Re: Question about Israel and Christianity
May 24, 2021, 5:04 PM
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His link says in the first paragraph that Paul’s writings are hard to understand.
There are also multiple interpretations of the same passages all throughout the Bible.
Why would god want to confuse people?
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All-In [31365]
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Re: Question about Israel and Christianity
May 23, 2021, 10:45 AM
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I can’t help but remember that Yahweh is one of several hundred Mesopotamian gods, not to mention entire religious traditions and gods of other proto-indoeuropeam polytheists, and the religious traditions of the Far East, or the deities of early American cultures. I don’t typically worry myself day-to-day about what Osiris might have said about whacking off or how many oxen Woden may have slain, or what Ninurta might think about Jews and the apocalypse.
Your last point is well taken, described very eloquently by Nagel as “moral luck,” the circumstances, time, and location of your birth have everything to do with your culture and religious beliefs, and don’t make one superior to any other group.
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Heisman Winner [119571]
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Copy/pasta?***
May 23, 2021, 11:16 AM
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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I just don't know what to do with you.
May 23, 2021, 1:21 PM
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They were hearing chatter about the end times when Paul wrote to the Thessalonians at the end of chpt 4 and through chpt 5. I believe he mentioned it in the second epistle too. The letters are short so you shouldn't have much trouble finding it.
After 30 years of chatter I resolved that the words of Jesus seemed most easily understood and most definitive.
'Matthew 24:6
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.' See verse in context
Mark 13:7
'And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.' See verse in context
It's pretty simple.
I think God chose a man, Abraham, and later the Children of Israel to be His People.
As far a 'children of the Bible Belt being advantaged why wouldn't God choose the finest people on the planet? Also, I don't read anywhere in the scripture that all Jewish people are going to be redeemed. That's not what it says but it's none of my business because I'm a mongrel southerner with some injun, a tad of black with a European coverup like most southerners.
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Heisman Winner [111389]
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Re: Question about Israel and Christianity
May 23, 2021, 3:28 PM
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It means there better not be any brown-skinned, false god worshipping, uncircumcised, Palestinians running about the Holyland if you expect to be saved by Jesus.
The only moral thing to do would be to keep supplying weaponry to Israel so they can obliterate these savages, along with their wives and children, pets, and neighbors.
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All-TigerNet [13006]
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Re: Question about Israel and Christianity
May 23, 2021, 3:54 PM
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Or providing $$ to Hamas to do the same. Two weeks after they get the cash, they have rockets. Israel has rockets already, so Biden pretty much starting this conflict. Just fkn own your failures Dems. I’d respect you a little.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2BU2XT
Message was edited by: KeoweeIndians®
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All-In [26968]
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Be careful...
May 24, 2021, 7:12 AM
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The Bible, I believe, does predict that Israel will be saved at "the end" (don't want to get into detailed eschatology here). However, that doesn't mean that any individual, Jewish or otherwise, is "automatically" redeemed. Everyone, Jew and Gentile, has to repent and trust Christ the same way. I believe the Bible talks of Israel, nationally, trusting the Messiah, finally. Israel, nationally, will be rescued by Christ from the Antichrist, and then ruled by Christ. That doesn't mean every individual gets personally saved.
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All-In [46799]
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Then who will be the 144,000?***
May 24, 2021, 10:12 AM
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Trainer [38]
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Re: Be careful...
May 24, 2021, 4:59 PM
[ in reply to Be careful... ] |
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So the very nation that rejected, tortured, and killed his son he’s going to redeem, but everybody else who simply doesn’t believe in him goes to hell?
Sounds fair...
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Trainer [38]
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Re: Be careful...
May 24, 2021, 6:02 PM
[ in reply to Be careful... ] |
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Sorry misread your post.
Reading Romans 11 it sounds like he’s speaking of Israel as individuals who will accept Christ. Not as a nation.
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All-TigerNet [10866]
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Neocons somehow tricked Christians into thinking that the
May 24, 2021, 10:16 AM
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Zionist movement are "God's chosen people" and so "we" must defend them at all costs. I don't agree with it at all but that's what it is. Unfortunately the churches have gone along with this for the most part so here we are.
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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Re: Neocons somehow tricked Christians into thinking that the
May 24, 2021, 2:15 PM
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I'd say it has more to do with God's promise to bless those who bless Israel. Israel became a nation due to the socialist in Germany trying to wipe them all out. America and the rest of the civilized world including American media felt guilty for turning their backs on the Jewish Germans and ignoring the Holocaust and supported Israel for a while.
Some fundamental Christians see it as obligation. I mean if I'm going to pick a side in something like a 4K war between cousins I'm going with Israel. I understand how secular humanist would pick the other. I mean, how can you worship man if you appear to seek God's blessing, right?
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