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Rock Defender [53]
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Heisman Winner [119581]
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How bout Smokers and Fatties?***
Jan 12, 2022, 8:27 PM
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110%er [7187]
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Ummmm...you know health insurance companies can charge smokers more, right?***
Jan 12, 2022, 8:43 PM
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All-TigerNet [13016]
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Re: Ummmm...you know health insurance companies can charge smokers more, right?***
Jan 12, 2022, 8:46 PM
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In Canada?
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Ummmm...you know health insurance companies can charge smokers more, right?***
Jan 12, 2022, 8:48 PM
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Maybe that's why a pack of cigarettes is so expensive now in so many states. I wonder where that tax money goes? I really don't know.
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Rock Defender [53]
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110%er [6692]
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Re: How bout Smokers and Fatties?***
Jan 12, 2022, 8:46 PM
[ in reply to How bout Smokers and Fatties?*** ] |
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They just have big bones and a slow metabolism is what they say.
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All-TigerNet [13016]
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Re: Pay Your Own Way
Jan 12, 2022, 8:43 PM
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Yea, you should pay a fat tax, or stupid tax, and whatever else to offset your societal cost.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Pay Your Own Way
Jan 12, 2022, 9:37 PM
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I don’t care about a fat tax. Everybody in my double wide trailer is lean and mean.
But I do support actuarial math that requires people to pay higher insurance premiums for being stupid.
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All-TigerNet [13016]
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Re: Pay Your Own Way
Jan 12, 2022, 9:44 PM
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That same math says that black folks should pay a higher mortgage rate. You good with that too?
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Rock Defender [53]
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You’re probably not gonna like this
Jan 12, 2022, 8:46 PM
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110%er [6692]
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Re: You’re probably not gonna like this
Jan 12, 2022, 8:47 PM
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They are all jammed in there like sardines.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: You’re probably not gonna like this
Jan 12, 2022, 8:48 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: You’re probably not gonna like this
Jan 12, 2022, 8:53 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97673]
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Half of covid patients are not there because of covid
Jan 12, 2022, 9:22 PM
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They are there for other things and tested positive.
52% in NYC actually, are NOT admitted for covid. They test everyone who is admitted. That just shows you the level of the virus in the general population is in the 50% range. In fact, being so highly vaccinated this is why this problem exists really. Prior variants, without vaccines, and the vast majority of covid patients were there because of covid. They were sick. Think it's 30-40% are asymptomatic now in hospitals as well.
The deaths will be much lower. Nowhere are deaths rising anything like prior variants. But when Delta came through, you had the same number of hospitalizations as now, but a much larger percentage of them were there for covid, and dying much more.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Half of covid patients are not there because of covid
Jan 12, 2022, 9:54 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97673]
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20%, 50% whatever less severe
Jan 13, 2022, 9:01 AM
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and 400-500% more cases, yeah, it will be bad again, and is.
We will see where deaths peak. It will be a mess though because almost half of people are in the hospital for something else. And some get covid in the hospital. So lady goes in to have a tumor removed, tests positive on admission with no symptoms, and was in very bad shape without covid, and with covid she passes. How do you tally her? Or the frail old man in bad health who falls, breaks a hip, and needs surgery. Gets it and catches covid in the hospital, and he deteriorates to death. Or the asymptomatic person who checks in for a gall bladder removal only to test positive upon admission, and they develop symptoms and die.
I'm sure the tendency will be to report those as covid deaths, and if you have to go with the odds, you're probably batting over .500. But those are hard calls to make. I'd expect to see possibly a greater gap between excess deaths and covid deaths this wave, overall. A greater percentage will be missed as hospitals are saturated with not only covid patients admitted for covid, but a large percentage testing positive on admission for something else, or getting it in the hospital.
But overall the more vaccinated people, the less deaths. Wherever we end up, it will be worse than NYC, and other places, as usual. Best hope is there is some level of prior immunity from the south getting hit so hard. And this is why South African data is so deceiving. Omicron IS milder than Delta (but Delta was more severe than Wuhan), but they've had far more covid than they report as well (more than us per capita), so there is (possibly) a level of immunity in the community beyond the few who had vaccines, and that made then think IT WAS far less severe when it was moderately less severe. South Africa has 290,000 excess deaths since the pandemic started, and only 92,000 covid deaths. That's like the US having 3.2 million excess deaths for our 870,000 covid deaths. South Africa has missed half to 2/3 (a definite majority) of their covid deaths as not being recorded. I long ago stopped following their data. You do so at your own risk.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: 20%, 50% whatever less severe
Jan 13, 2022, 11:02 AM
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110%er [6400]
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Re: Pay Your Own Way
Jan 12, 2022, 11:46 PM
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I know four people who have it right now. It's nothing but sniffles and feeling tired a couple days. And if you vax shaming finger-waggers had an ounce of honesty, you'd at least footnote that the commie government in China is to blame for all this. But you won't do that, because you like your iphones and earbuds and North Face jackets made by slave labor too much.
China sucks! Vaccines suck!
Masks suck too, and f#ck the Canucks!
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Pay Your Own Way
Jan 13, 2022, 12:08 AM
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It's not killing peeps the same as before, but the hospitals are getting packed in certain areas such as Miami. Why even want that?
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110%er [6400]
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Re: Pay Your Own Way
Jan 13, 2022, 12:31 AM
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Want it or not, it's here, and at this point, I'd rather get it and get it over with (if I haven't already) than continue living in some vague state of semi-perpetual fear.
And speaking of Canucks, here's a fact that's verifiable: 90 percent of Canadians live within 100 miles of the US border. Know why that is? 'Cause any further north, you'd freeze your n#ts off ten months a year. If it weren't for global warming, 99 percent of Canadians would live within a hundred yards of the US border, and condos would be strung along the 49th parallel from Winnipeg to Vancouver.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Pay Your Own Way
Jan 13, 2022, 12:13 AM
[ in reply to Re: Pay Your Own Way ] |
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Pawcoot’s anecdotal survey of four homies living next door certainly confirms that the vaccine is a waste of time. And by the way, since it China deliberately sent this vaccine to hit America we shouldn’t take the vaccine. Yeah, let’s go anti vaxers !
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110%er [6400]
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Re: Pay Your Own Way
Jan 13, 2022, 1:16 AM
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Paw'a'coot, if you please, and vax up if you want
But I'll mask no more, despite smears and taunts
Homies and girlfriends, kids in the 'hood
All of us had it, an' all of us good
This virus kilt more peeps than car wrecks and cancer
Yet how that occurred, nobody can answer
But mask up my friends! Think of thy neighbor!
And keep buying cheap cr#p, made by slave labor!
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Letterman [257]
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Where was the device you typed this on made?***
Jan 13, 2022, 6:50 AM
[ in reply to Re: Pay Your Own Way ] |
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Where was the device you typed this on made?***
Jan 13, 2022, 10:00 AM
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I can answer that.
It was made in the peoples Republic of China.
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All-TigerNet [10867]
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I agree, insurance companies should be allowed to drop
Jan 13, 2022, 12:35 AM
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the vaccinated patients. They're going to be having a ton of heart attacks and strokes over the next few years, and I don't want to have to pay for it.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I agree, insurance companies should be allowed to drop
Jan 13, 2022, 10:01 AM
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With that kind of math I’m glad you’re not in charge.
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Commissioner [976]
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So the goal is compliance, not health?
Jan 13, 2022, 2:11 AM
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Got it. Seems like being immunocompromised would be a burden with COVID. Any tax on unprotected sex for the lgbtq community? Or just your political enemies and people who rightfully don’t trust the government?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: So the goal is compliance, not health?
Jan 13, 2022, 10:10 AM
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This has nothing to do with politics. I don’t have any political enemies. I don’t care about the political parties, dem or pub. I support American people, not political parties and ideologies.
This is simple math.
Just to address the radical extremes you postulate, the immunocompromised and others that are not eligible to take the vaccine, should not take the vaccine. But Americans that are eligible to take the vaccine can do a lot for their brothers, sisters and neighbors by doing so.
It’s simple, do you care about yourself and others OR do you just care about yourself.
The good news is this is America and you can do whatever you want.
I just think insurance companies should charge the unvaccinated a higher premium. It’s simple actuarial math that nobody can successfully contest.
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Commissioner [976]
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I agree people should take the vax
Jan 13, 2022, 11:26 AM
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But here’s what a mandate or penalty does:
1. Punishes African-American decedents of The Tuskegee Experiment victims because they don’t trust the government to dictate what they put in their bodies.
2. Punishes nurses who worked through the pandemic with no help, got COVID, have high levels of antibodies and are currently nursing and don’t want to risk having their babies having blood clots.
3. Punishes Jews who have been vaxed but don’t want to “show their papers” to the government because their ancestors risked their lives to get away from places who set up internment camps for non-compliance and ask to see your papers.
So unless you can look those people in the face and tell them to “get over it” or explain how it makes sense that your safety trumps their freedom, this policy is wrong.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: I agree people should take the vax
Jan 13, 2022, 1:29 PM
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Those are some of the lamest arguments I've ever heard.
It's PUBLIC HEALTH. Unless you can guarantee that any virus you have is going to stop at your nose and not get into the nose of the little old lady down the street and kill her, you owe it to her and everybody you encounter to do your best. Which means vaxxing if it's available, and wearing masks, however irritating it is. And no, I don't wanna get jabbed either but I did it, and I don't wanna wear masks either, but I do...because I'm trying to do my part.
I. Really. $^%^ing. Resent. The. Jerks. Who. Do. Not. Care. About. Anyone. Else. There's a million people dead in the USA. (The official figure is 840K+...but there's another two hundred K-plus excess deaths since this thing started, and something killed them. And there's a real obvious suspect.)
Your rights stop where your own nose ends. You do not have the right to run around infecting the world because, well, freedom and 'Merrica! Which is your argument. If we'd listened to that kind of stupidity - and it is rank stupidity - we'd still have smallpox, polio, and measles. Unless you think I've got the right to point a 6-shooter at your head, put in one round, give it a good spin, and pull the trigger and see what happens, because, well, free country. And it's not like I know if it's really going to kill you or not, right?
And oh, wait, we do have measles again. We had it beat...and then anti-vax morons brought it back.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6657116/
Whether you want to admit it or not, public health is everybody's business. If you don't believe that, do not live next to me. There's a million people dead in the US of COVID already, and people are still standing tall and proud on their right to be dangerous a$$holes.
Sorry, not okay.
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Commissioner [976]
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Well unfortunately for you
Jan 13, 2022, 1:35 PM
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Our country was founded upon the idea that we aren’t trading liberty for safety. If you want to protect yourself from illness, get vaxed, wear masks, if you feel sick get tested and get monoclonal antibodies if positive. But you do not get to tell some nurse who has antibodies because she got it treating people that she has to take a risky vax that may kill her child and will not give her any extra protection that she doesn’t already have.
Like I said, until you can look those three groups of people in the face and tell them your safety trumps their liberty, there’s no point in discussing it. And no statist would actually stand in front of those people and say that in real life. Period.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Well unfortunately for you
Jan 13, 2022, 1:40 PM
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Okay, I'll just play Russian roulette with your skull as a target then. Free country. I can do what I want, right here in my patch of grass.
If you die, you should have been watching where you were standing.
We aren't islands. And when China or Russia or Iran or some rando nutcase cooks up a goosed-up SARS-3 in a lab and looses it on us because they know there's fifty million nincompoops with that exact same wrongheaded idiocy over here and that leaves us all wide open to germ warfare because the plague carriers feel no obligation to protect anyone they might come into contact with, we're all going to drop like flies.
This is called "winning a Darwin Award", by the way. Societies with too many selfish jerks tend to become too self-indulgent to maintain themselves. Kind of a far cry from "son, come back with your shield or on it" the old Romans used to say to their kids. Later on that tradition declined. So did Rome.
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Commissioner [976]
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This wasn’t “cooked up” by some Russian
Jan 13, 2022, 1:47 PM
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It was funded by our tax dollars. The only terrorists starting pandemics are the ones you’ve been voting for. So spare me that.
Everyone getting vaxed will not end this virus. Wearing masks will not end this virus. So stop acting like it. And stop vilifying African-Americans who don’t trust a government that has mistreated them for generations. It’s just not cool. If you want to live somewhere that has policies you want implemented, Australia is doing everything you want. Take your stimulus money and move there. But we’re not going to allow the government to jail people who don’t comply with giving up bodily autonomy to the state. That’s tyranny, whether there’s a virus out there or not.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: This wasn’t “cooked up” by some Russian
Jan 13, 2022, 2:13 PM
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That is simply not the case. States absolutely have the right to institute public-health measures up to and including summary execution of those who refuse to comply and they absolutely will, when the stakes get high enough. Try breaking quarantine during a smallpox outbreak in the Middle Ages, see what the powers-that-be would do. (They'd hang your head from the battlements as a warning to other selfish fools.) Try doing it with something similar in modern times if we've got a deadly enough plague. I guarantee you the result would be much the same.
No, we're not there yet. COVID is just a biohazard level-3 pathogen, not end-of-the-world stuff like a biohazard level-4 would be...COVID isn't smallpox, Black Plague, Lasso, or one of those Brazilian mammarenaviruses that make virologists break out in a cold sweat when they just think it might do if it ever got out into the world. But this biohazard level-3 plague is still well above the pale - again, the last one that really got out into the world was Spanish Flu clear back in 1918 - has still killed a known 5.5 million globally and probably 4-5 times that, easily (there's at least 4 million+ dead in India alone), and a million of those happened here in the US.
Let me repeat that, because it obviously hasn't sunk in. There's a million people dead here in the USA. That's...insane. And still some folks are just shrugging it off. That's more than died in WWI, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and every war we've had since combined.
No, vaxxes and masking are not adequate. But they're the best we've got. They offer no certainty, just better odds. And those odds translate into hundreds of thousands or even millions of potential deaths. This is by a mile the worst pandemic the globe has seen in 100+ years, stop acting like it's a freaking cold.
We owe it to everybody to do our best and try to keep the death count as low as possible. There's a million Americans dead. A MILLION. Stop worrying about your rights for one freaking second and try doing your duty for a change. Because successful civilizations are always a balance between individual rights...and public duty, and people who don't get that are sociopaths.
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Commissioner [976]
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K
Jan 13, 2022, 2:18 PM
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You’re obviously the type of person that wears a mask while driving alone so there’s just no reasoning with you. But I’ll leave you with this last thought…
Maybe try using rational arguments to get people to voluntarily vax instead of forcing it into their bodies against their will. That’s never worked well anywhere it’s been tried. And, like I said, some people have great reasons not to trust the vax or will only have harm come from it with no benefit. You’re really pushing people like them to become exremist federal anarchists like myself. But keep on with your bad self. More and more people are realizing every day that we don’t need a federal government at all if this is the kind you want.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: K
Jan 13, 2022, 2:32 PM
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I'm a freaking Libertarian. And I whip that mask off the second I get away from anyone.
The thing you can't wrap your head around is: your rights stop where someone else's nose begins.
You don't have the right to run around infecting the world for your convenience, any more than I have the right to randomly fire a gun around inside city limits. If you kill someone because of your carelessness, it's on you.
It doesn't matter if you use a gun or a virus.
No, you can't guarantee that you're making everyone around you perfectly safe. The tools we have to combat this thing are imperfect and inadequate.
All we can do, though, is all we can do. It matters. And if you keep making it all about your "liberty" you're ignoring the reality that you also have a duty to everyone around you. Unless you can guarantee your carelessness isn't going to affect them.
Can you guarantee the immunocompromised guy you pass in the street that your non-vaxxed unmasked self isn't going to affect him? Or does he just deserve to die because he's old, sick, and weak...and you can't be bothered?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: K
Jan 13, 2022, 5:41 PM
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Don’t bother, weslichick has a fundaMENTAL misunderstanding of most everything outside of his truck. Bless his heart.
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Commissioner [976]
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So you’re a libertarian who is
Jan 13, 2022, 6:02 PM
[ in reply to Re: K ] |
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pro-vax mandate? Wow. The NAP does not apply to this because you can get and give this virus while vaxed. So this has absolutely nothing to do with the NAP. You might want to read a bit more of Spike Cohen’s stuff, or just admit you’re a statist. But please stop calling yourself a libertarian with these big government control viewpoints. It hurts the movement.
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Rock Defender [53]
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