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Replies: 52
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CU Guru [1893]
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SC Top HS Basketball Player to Announce
Sep 30, 2022, 7:10 AM
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On Wednesday at 3:30. Down to SC, Missouri, and Auburn. Anyone know why Jordan Butler isn't interested in playing for Brownell?
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110%er [9023]
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Re: SC Top HS Basketball Player to Announce
Sep 30, 2022, 7:37 AM
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Who knows, it's definitely the premier program in the upstate of SC around the Seneca area. We haven't had good basketball at Clemson since cousin rick was mouthing off to the dean.
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CU Guru [1452]
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Re: SC Top HS Basketball Player to Announce
Sep 30, 2022, 7:50 AM
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Who knows, it's definitely the premier program in the upstate of SC around the Seneca area.
That's funny. TU for you.
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110%er [9661]
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Patience…
1
Sep 30, 2022, 8:02 AM
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I’m sure Brownell will snag him on his next go ‘round as a grad transfer.
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CU Guru [1893]
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Yikes!
Sep 30, 2022, 9:30 AM
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You mean Brownell will still be Clemson's head basketball coach 4 or 5 years from now?
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110%er [9661]
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Oh come on. You know he will!
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Sep 30, 2022, 12:30 PM
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It takes at least 20 years to build a basketball program.
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Team Captain [490]
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Re: Oh come on. You know he will!
Sep 30, 2022, 4:03 PM
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It takes at least 20 years to build a basketball program.
I am so sad to learn this. SIGH!
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CU Medallion [53716]
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Probably wants to go to a school whose best basketball
Sep 30, 2022, 8:12 AM
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coach will guarantee he plays in a safe environment.
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110%er [7929]
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Re: SC Top HS Basketball Player to Announce
Sep 30, 2022, 8:13 AM
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For the 2023 football class, not a single player from South Carolina wanted to play for Dabo. Not-a-single-player. Anyone know what happened? Did Dr. Evil steal Dabo's mojo?
New to this trolling thing so did i do it right?
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Head Coach [760]
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Re: SC Top HS Basketball Player to Announce
Sep 30, 2022, 8:43 AM
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It has nothing to do with players not wanting to play for Dabo. Dabo does not give out many scholarship offers to in-state recruits. The 2023 offers included a grand total of 2 offers to in-state players. Monroe Freeling picked UGA and Markee Anderson is likely going to be a coot. There are no other offers listed for in-state players. Xzavier McLeod from Camden was not offered by Clemson.
Clemson makes a living out of recruiting GA, NC, and FL. Certainly some great players have come from other states but these are the big 3.
Just my opinion here but it has a lot to do with level of talent and overall level of football in the state. SC is a relatively small state that traditionally has not produced a large number of great players. Out of the ESPN 300 top players only 3 from SC are listed. Freeling (#94), Anderson (#203, and McLeod (#133).
Go on Tigerillustrated and look at the commitment lists for the last several years and see where all our players come from. 2022 had more than players from SC than usual as Dabo added some guys at the end after Venables departed and we lost some commitments.
Do we have a problem attracting top basketball recruits to Clemson? Absolutely. We have no problems getting top football talent to Clemson, we just have to travel to do it.
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110%er [7929]
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Re: SC Top HS Basketball Player to Announce
Sep 30, 2022, 9:09 AM
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It has nothing to do with players not wanting to play for Dabo. Dabo does not give out many scholarship offers to in-state recruits. The 2023 offers included a grand total of 2 offers to in-state players. Monroe Freeling picked UGA and Markee Anderson is likely going to be a coot. There are no other offers listed for in-state players. Xzavier McLeod from Camden was not offered by Clemson.
Clemson makes a living out of recruiting GA, NC, and FL. Certainly some great players have come from other states but these are the big 3.
Just my opinion here but it has a lot to do with level of talent and overall level of football in the state. SC is a relatively small state that traditionally has not produced a large number of great players. Out of the ESPN 300 top players only 3 from SC are listed. Freeling (#94), Anderson (#203, and McLeod (#133).
Go on Tigerillustrated and look at the commitment lists for the last several years and see where all our players come from. 2022 had more than players from SC than usual as Dabo added some guys at the end after Venables departed and we lost some commitments.
Do we have a problem attracting top basketball recruits to Clemson? Absolutely. We have no problems getting top football talent to Clemson, we just have to travel to do it.
Dear old Chad, you seem to have missed my point so please read the last sentence of my post.
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CU Medallion [50435]
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That should be"Clad"
Sep 30, 2022, 9:12 AM
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Read that again.
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Legend [19567]
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We travel in football because SC has good and bad years
Sep 30, 2022, 3:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: SC Top HS Basketball Player to Announce ] |
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and we can be picky as we recruit great. When we want a guy in SC we can normally get him.
In basketball, I can't think of even a 4 star SC recruit we've landed in years other than Hall
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CU Guru [1923]
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Re: We travel in football because SC has good and bad years
Sep 30, 2022, 8:22 PM
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Oh how quickly we forget Milton Jennings.
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Commissioner [963]
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Legend [19567]
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You realize what years means don't you
Oct 3, 2022, 6:49 PM
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it's been 13 of them since Devin and Milt signed, with OP. If you want to cherry pick services to find an in state 4 star like Oliver or Beadle when basically all the rest had them as 3 stars, fine.
Meanwhile, the consensus 4-5 stars all head elsewhere. Cootville, NC, Texas, Tennessee, FSU, Duke, Pitt, Nebraska, Georgetown, aTm, everywhere but here
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Commissioner [963]
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Commissioner [963]
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Commissioner [963]
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All-TigerNet [10563]
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That is a very astute observation. None of them.
Sep 30, 2022, 9:07 AM
[ in reply to Re: SC Top HS Basketball Player to Announce ] |
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This year. This single year. So far this year. None.
As opposed to a decade of basketball inferiority.
So no, you didn't do it right. You'll get better. I can sense it.
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110%er [7929]
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Re: That is a very astute observation. None of them.
Sep 30, 2022, 9:24 AM
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This year. This single year. So far this year. None.
As opposed to a decade of basketball inferiority.
So no, you didn't do it right. You'll get better. I can sense it.
Seems you and Chad or Clad or whomever also missed the point. The op used a single situation he knew nothing about and assigned blame to CBB. I simply used a football example to point out his flawed logic or hypocrisy. Maybe you will understand someday if you apply yourself.
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CU Medallion [64946]
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He has way too much eligibility left for Brown-L to be
Sep 30, 2022, 8:35 AM
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interested in signing him.
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All-In [43989]
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Well
Sep 30, 2022, 9:07 AM
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First of all, his mom went to the University of South Carolina, so he grew up in a Coot home.
Second, his older brother, John, was recruited by us but we backed off after Steve Smith was fired. Not surprisingly, John followed Steve to FSU.
Third, Jordan has not been a high priority for our staff.
I’m assuming that none of this matters to most of you, because the default reason that Brownell is an idiot who doesn’t recruit is easier for you - not to mention it fits your anti-Brownell narrative. But I wanted to share it nonetheless.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Well
Sep 30, 2022, 9:24 AM
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Hmmmm. So Steve smith got caught trying to pay Zion to come here and get fired.
Then we back off when smith is fired and he follows him to FSU. I think it's pretty obvious why FSU has recruited well over the last 5 years.
Looks like this player is a coot, and his parents are probably after money
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All-TigerNet [11423]
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CU Medallion [58367]
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Brownell is not an idiot. The fact that he does not recruit
Sep 30, 2022, 9:56 AM
[ in reply to Well ] |
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well is indisputable.
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All-In [43989]
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Okay, but people who automatically blame Brad
Sep 30, 2022, 11:56 AM
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for us not getting a specific player is poor logic.
Yes, Brad might be the reason we didn’t get him, but he might also not be the reason. It could also be:
-Clemson is not and has never been a desirable basketball destination for top recruits
-Some players don’t want to live in Clemson or South Carolina
-Some guys don’t want to go to a school where football is the priority
-Sometimes players grew up cheering for another team
-A recruit might have seen a better depth chart situation elsewhere
Etc.
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Legend [19567]
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And we have our excuses list***
Sep 30, 2022, 4:01 PM
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All-In [43989]
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They aren’t excuses.
Oct 3, 2022, 4:53 PM
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They are legitimate reasons why a recruit might not choose Clemson.
I fully acknowledge that Brad isn’t a great recruiter, but blaming every recruiting miss on him is ridiculous.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: They aren’t excuses.
Oct 3, 2022, 4:56 PM
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Is there any recruiting miss we can blame on him. Mr. Basketball SC is not any recruit. Clemson should appear to be a bastion of stability compared to the dumpster fire in Columbia. So this player isn’t good enough for us?
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Associate AD [806]
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CU Medallion [58367]
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How many NBA players has Brownell produced in 12 years
Sep 30, 2022, 9:17 AM
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at Clemson?
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110%er [7929]
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Re: How many NBA players has Brownell produced in 12 years
Sep 30, 2022, 9:25 AM
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What a great question! Unfortunately it has nothing to do with this thread.
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CU Medallion [67659]
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Re: How many NBA players has Brownell produced in 12 years
Sep 30, 2022, 9:28 AM
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can he claim KJ? from back when we had a decent team. does anyone remember that far back?
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CU Medallion [58367]
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LOL! Allow me to explain, and perhaps open your eyes ...
Sep 30, 2022, 9:52 AM
[ in reply to Re: How many NBA players has Brownell produced in 12 years ] |
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Clemson, under Brownell, is WAY down the list for highly rated players who have serious hopes of playing in the NBA, because Brownell doesn't put any players in the NBA. Unless he has been a die-hard Clemson fan all of his life, or has no offers from more successful coaches at better programs who put players in the NBA, why on earth would Jordan choose Clemson? You're not that dumb - you know this.
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110%er [7929]
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Re: LOL! Allow me to explain, and perhaps open your eyes ...
Sep 30, 2022, 9:58 AM
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Clemson, under Brownell, is WAY down the list for highly rated players who have serious hopes of playing in the NBA, because Brownell doesn't put any players in the NBA. Unless he has been a die-hard Clemson fan all of his life, or has no offers from more successful coaches at better programs who put players in the NBA, why on earth would Jordan choose Clemson? You're not that dumb - you know this.
Nice try but the original post was about a single player using it as an example to bash CBB. Regardless of how you feel about CBB's tenure the OP was reaching and your post had nothing to do with this thread.
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CU Medallion [58367]
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Here's a direct, straightforward answer ...
Sep 30, 2022, 10:38 AM
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It's reasonable to assume that unless he is a life-long Clemson fan, or unless he has developed an unusually close relationship with Brownell or Clemson coaches, as a top 100 player he will have offers from schools with better basketball programs with more successful head coaches, and that those offers would be more appealing.
While it is true that I have no way of knowing what is truly in this young man's heart, and therefore his reasons for not choosing Clemson, my point is 100% valid. If you don't believe and won't acknowledge that Brownell's historically weak recruiting and failure to produce NBA talent (indisputable facts) don't factor into the decisions of highly rated recruits with other big-time offers, then you are dishonest and/or delusional. You can call that a shot at Brownell if you like, but it's relevant and it's true.
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110%er [7929]
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Re: Here's a direct, straightforward answer ...
Sep 30, 2022, 12:08 PM
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It's reasonable to assume that unless he is a life-long Clemson fan, or unless he has developed an unusually close relationship with Brownell or Clemson coaches, as a top 100 player he will have offers from schools with better basketball programs with more successful head coaches, and that those offers would be more appealing.
While it is true that I have no way of knowing what is truly in this young man's heart, and therefore his reasons for not choosing Clemson, my point is 100% valid. If you don't believe and won't acknowledge that Brownell's historically weak recruiting and failure to produce NBA talent (indisputable facts) don't factor into the decisions of highly rated recruits with other big-time offers, then you are dishonest and/or delusional. You can call that a shot at Brownell if you like, but it's relevant and it's true.
Recruiting has not been weak...its been average. Larry Shyatt had weak recruiting so you have a data point for reference. BTW I never said CBB was a great recruiter as my comments were about the OP slamming our coach without a shread of evidence to back it up. Just like you took thread off the rails with your usual slam of our coach when your comments had nothing to do with the young man referenced in the original post. Seems you never pass an opportunity to slam our coach even if its off topic to the discussion at hand. Perhaps if you were vocally supportive of our coach the recruiting would improve? Guess you are waiting on the next coach to support. Unfortunately they will not likely be at clemson long as they will either move up or get fired based on our program history.
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CU Medallion [58367]
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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Sep 30, 2022, 1:00 PM
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"Recruiting has not been weak...its been average."
I don't think I have to say anything more.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: How many NBA players has Brownell produced in 12 years
Sep 30, 2022, 9:34 AM
[ in reply to How many NBA players has Brownell produced in 12 years ] |
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2 have played in the NBA.
How many did OP have? 1 in Trevor booker
How many did shyatt have? 1 in Sharod Ford
How many did Rick Barnes have? 1 in Greg Buckner
Am I missing any? We've had 5 players play in the nba since 1994, but it's brownell's fault he hasn't had more. Hmmmm sound logic.
Below are my reasons as to why we haven't had more nba players in our program
- worst basketball history in the ACC
- not a lot of good recruits come out of SC
- we compete with teams that pay their players
- up until 5 years ago we had the worst facilities in the ACC.
These are all reasons that have more to do with our lack of nba talent than bad brownell. I wish brownell would recruit better. That's definitely his weakness. Hopefully the new hires will help that.
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CU Medallion [58367]
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And we will fix all of that by continuing down the same
Sep 30, 2022, 9:55 AM
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path, and pretending he will turn it around when he has made zero progress in 12 years. THERE'S some great logic!
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: And we will fix all of that by continuing down the same
Sep 30, 2022, 12:03 PM
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path, and pretending he will turn it around when he has made zero progress in 12 years. THERE'S some great logic!
Who's logic is that? It's certainly not mine. Why are you making up a viewpoint and arguing with it?
There are a lot of things Clemson needs to do to be a consistent top 25 program, retain a stellar coach, and recruit top 100 players consistently.
I've said consistently that we need to be a tourney team this year for brownell to keep his job. I could also see a scenario where we keep brownell if we have a decent year, but it's obvious we have a couple studs in the freshman class, and we are returning a stout team.
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CU Medallion [58367]
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My bad then - If you agree that Brownell is part of the
Sep 30, 2022, 12:28 PM
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problem and must go in order for us to improve the program, then I have no argument with you about that, and I apologize. Otherwise, we have a big argument.
I do not believe, even with the recruits and players we have, that we are on the cusp of any long-term improvement above perpetual mediocrity. I'll be pleasantly surprised if we make the NCAA Tourney this year, but I hope that with the new AD, we can get new blood in here that can make a real difference going forward.
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Legend [19567]
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All-In [43989]
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Not coincidentally, Ellis is also the coach who has had NCAA sanctions
Oct 3, 2022, 4:57 PM
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at just about every school he’s coached, including Clemson.
I like Cliff, he’s a nice guy and a good coach. But he regularly bends the rules. We shouldn’t be using him as our standard for anything.
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Legend [19567]
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What players has he ever been cited as paying?
Oct 3, 2022, 6:55 PM
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Good grief, he's not Tates Locke.
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110%er [6650]
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Because he reads TigerNet with a bunch of haters like you
1
Sep 30, 2022, 10:05 AM
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Be ashamed!
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Orange Blooded [4999]
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Re: SC Top HS Basketball Player to Announce
Sep 30, 2022, 12:39 PM
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Seriously, you would think at some point I’m his career at Clemson Brownell would have accidentally signed a 5 star recruit at some point. Not that a 5 star is even a guaranteed difference maker in a program, but you’d still think in that amount of time he’d somehow lucked out and got one
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: SC Top HS Basketball Player to Announce
Sep 30, 2022, 3:24 PM
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We did basically have Zion Williamson. Then Duke paid him to go there. Our coach tried to entice Zion with money and got fired immediately and hired at FSU.
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All-TigerNet [11423]
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Re: SC Top HS Basketball Player to Announce
Sep 30, 2022, 4:53 PM
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We did basically have Zion Williamson. Then Duke paid him to go there. Our coach tried to entice Zion with money and got fired immediately and hired at FSU.
There is no proof that Steve Smith was going to pay for Zion..go look at the comments he made. He was saying that Clemson can get players also by looking at what they can get great football players. If he actually had made comments to offering Zion he would have been accused by the FBI. It was all locker room type talk. Go look at Coach Brownell's comment and quotes about it.
The problem is this. Clemson Basketball doesn't have the National brand like it does in football. Then it has to get the top players in SC in state. Clemson Football doesn't have to worry about that because it recruits Natiinally. A lot of hope was once Clemson would start getting more top 75-60 players after getting PJ Hall. Well it is not happening after two cycles now. Clemson can't keep just getting players right outside the top 100-175. Need to get more high 4 star players to maybe lower 5 star recruits. These top recruits see that Coach Brownell is not winning consistently and want to go to a school where they will win more often. I saw this coming when the Coots got GG Jackson. Now top players in SC see new hope in the brand new coach there. eventually Clemson will need to do the same thing. Coach Brownell sees this as well, and will step down and retire when the time is right...
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Orange Blooded [2027]
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Re: SC Top HS Basketball Player to Announce
Sep 30, 2022, 4:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: SC Top HS Basketball Player to Announce ] |
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So this Murray State coach was walking around the gym and saw this kid playing on another court away from Zion...he offered him. The kid stuck to his first offer out of some age-old thing called commitment.
Clemson BB coaches didn't really get into the fray because they had used the last spot on the women's coach son.
I admit I probably got some facts wrong and of course no other coaches identified/offered Ja Morant either (Frank Martin tried at some point...don't call me a coot). But that was CBB opportunity to change the trajectory of his program at Clemson...he and his assistance missed it. I will be forever grateful to him ending the streak at Chapel Hill, but I think he is on very thin ice with Neff.
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Legend [19567]
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We need a guy who can recruit, and spot the under the radar guy
Oct 3, 2022, 8:46 PM
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Barnes did both. Buckner and Boogie were 3 stars. Jamieson, Christie, Jurkunas 4 stars.
Ellis recruited elite bigs. Also 4 star guards like David Young, Michael Best, and 5 star Ricky Jones. He found some under the radar guys like Grayson Marshall as well
Bill Foster was the best at finding diamonds in the rough. The Grant's, Vincent Hamilton, Larry Nance, Mitchell Wiggins, Anthony Jenkins.
Foster and Ellis utilized jucos, especially Ellis. Barnes brought in a few. Brownell has at least one, and obviously the portal is a far bigger deal now. That's where we struck out this year, and why we have huge question marks at PG and SF. Center as well until Hall returns.
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Orange Blooded [4444]
TigerPulse: 91%
Posts: 4231
Joined: 1/1/19
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Re: SC Top HS Basketball Player to Announce
Sep 30, 2022, 7:05 PM
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Brownell just can’t recruit, Never has never will
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Replies: 52
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