|
Replies: 36
| visibility 1
|
Legend [19686]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17282
Joined: 8/18/05
|
Off week hoops talk (long)
Oct 25, 2022, 10:49 PM
|
|
I love Clemson basketball, always have. And although I'm not highly optimistic about this coming year, nonetheless, I'm always excited for a new year. I hate when we struggle as hoops is the focus over the winter. So, if we are to surprise people this year, here's what I think must happen.
Hold our own until PJ is 100%. The early season schedule doesn't look all that impressive, but it actually isn't bad. Their are some gimmes, but games like Bellardine and Towson are actually against good low majors, and Loyola-Chicago and Richmond are good mid majors. Of the ten non conference games, I think we have to go 6-4 to have a chance at a good year. Only possibly TCU looks to be a top 20 team among the high major games, but all 4 of them are games we could lose as well. Staying above .500 is key until PJ returns.
The conference schedule is actually pretty favorable. Only play the holes, Dook and UVa once. 10 of the 20 games are against teams picked 10th or lower like us. If PJ gets back fairly quickly, we have a chance to play above .500 in the league, especially with an upset here or there.
PJ is obviously the key to everything. Brad says they won't rush him, but we need him back ASAP. He opens up everything for us, allowing us to play inside out with a low post scorer. If he's slow rounding into shape, our chances are very slim of a good year.
Chase Hunter and Tyson are solid vets. With Hall they can be good complimentary players, efficient double digit scorers. Without Hall they're leading men, and I don't think that is a comforting thing.
We'll need Dillon Hunter and Godfrey to hit the ground running, something most freshmen don't do under Brad. All four freshmen have upside, but all are considered developmental. 1-2 really establishing themselves, especially in Nov-Dec could go a long way to a better year.
I think we struggle to rebound even with Hall, but especially without him.
The inexperience greatly concerns me, especially defensively. Brad's defensive system isn't easy to master, and inexperience in it normally doesn't lead to success. The better length will help, but blown switches and inexperience at fighting through screens could prove costly. We have to improve defensively. Last year even our grad transfers struggled to adapt to Brad's scheme early.
Josh Beadle is going to be exciting, and frustrating at the same time. His athleticism is outstanding, something we've lacked at G. His inexperience will show though.
Anyway, we're 9 days away from win number one (yes I think we'll beat Citadel). Game 2 against USuC on the road is actually a pivotal game. Win there, and staying above water pre PJ becomes far easier. My head says it's going to be a long year. But my heart hopes for a pleasant surprise.
|
|
|
|
 |
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: Off week hoops talk (long)
Oct 25, 2022, 11:09 PM
|
|
Glad you are excited striperfan. Thought we weee re losing you a few months ago!
Agree with a lot of what you said. Our conference schedule is very easy comparatively. Brownell usually has a few upsets, so I fully expect to beat a few ranked teams. Hopefully we don't have any shocking losses like the bc game last year.
I don't necessarily believe that Dillon hunter and Godfrey have to "hit the ground running" they no doubt need to be ready to play, but hunter just needs to manage the game and not turn it over when he's in. He's apparently very good at that. Godfrey just needs to play great D, rebound, and score in spots.
I don't think we will struggle rebounding. Maybe when Schef is in, but Tyson is a very underrated rebounder. Also we are big at the guard spots and should have much better rebounding there.
Even with our down year last year, we were stil very close. If we didn't blow a few leads, it could have been a 20 win season. I fully expect to be improved from last year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19686]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17282
Joined: 8/18/05
|
"We" were never losing anyone
Oct 26, 2022, 5:34 AM
|
|
just because I don't see us being that good doesn't mean I stop being a fan
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: "We" were never losing anyone
Oct 26, 2022, 7:25 AM
|
|
It was a joke.
But seriously you are so biased and negative about anything Clemson basketball involving brownell, it seemed you were going down the nc tigs route. Hoping this team loses to get rid of brownell.
This was the most positive post I've seen you make in the last few months.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19686]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17282
Joined: 8/18/05
|
Yet I've supported Brownell most if his tenure
Oct 26, 2022, 7:42 AM
|
|
I'm not sure how you believe me thinking Brad has run his course here after 12 years is negative. How thinking we have ample evidence after 12 years of what Brad can and cannot accomplish here is negative.
How realism, seen by basically every pundit, poll and prognosticator of this being a mediocre year is negative.
If we surprise I'll be the biggest cheerleader. But it would be a major surprise, to basically everyone. The mix of talent and experience Clemson needs to succeed just isn't there this year. All of our successful teams have had that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: Yet I've supported Brownell most if his tenure
Oct 26, 2022, 8:43 AM
|
|
I don't care abything about that. For the last few months, every basketball post from you has been negative.
When somebody posts something positive, you barrel into the thread to be a Debbie downer. Just like nc tigs, who talks crap about our team on our players Twitter posts.
Anywho, done with this topic. Enjoy your day.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19686]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17282
Joined: 8/18/05
|
Realism is not negativism
Oct 26, 2022, 9:01 AM
|
|
it is realism. I disagree with your unbridled enthusiasm of this somehow being a tourney team based on nothing but hope. That guys who have been role players their entire careers will emerge as stars. That somehow some freshmen don't have to be major contributors for us to really surprise. That having no one who has played PG full time is a net positive. That our best player, by far, is out indefinitely is not a major issue. We have 6 guys who have played D1 basketball, and 2 of those have played very little, another is hurt. Pimp the positivity all you want, but realistically, that is not the platform for a successful Clemson basketball season.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: Realism is not negativism
Oct 26, 2022, 9:22 AM
|
|
There he is again!!
All I have said IS that we will simply upgrade the PG and SG positions combined. I would rather have chase hunter and brevin Galloway starting at PG and SG than honor and dawes. Chase hunter led the team in assists last year when he started. He was our beat creator. That is an attribute that you need at the pg position.
Who have I said will be a star, who was a role player their entire career? Also, what defines a star? When have we ever had multiple stars on a team?
When have I said that pj hall being injured isn't an issue? Lmao, you make up arguments in your head and then attribute these thoughts to me or others and then argue it.
You also keep trashing middlebrooks and schef like you didn't watch the games they started last year. They were solid. We have never had this kind of depth at the C position. Of course you spin that into a negative.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31303]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9123
Joined: 8/31/15
|
Re: Realism is not negativism
Oct 26, 2022, 9:41 AM
|
|
Mountaineer like him or dislike him for his point of views I believe Striper to be one of the best at being a realists.
I too enjoy reading yours and JK’s optimistic post but it seems you guys are in the minority on Brownell’s tenure here at Clemson.
NC Tigs as well comes off as negative but expects more and wants the same things as you and JK do, which is consistency in our basketball program. Heck we all do.
I’m not knocking you or JK for what most would consider unwarranted optimism, but you need to be prepared to hear the other side without worrying a whole lot about it as it’s not hate for Clemson or about wanting to argue about the state of our program. We just want to win and if Brownell can not get it done then let’s move on and find someone that can. I do understand that with our history that would not be real easy.
I love Clemson but have been lost when it comes to basketball for the last few years,but am looking forward to re-engaging this season after reading all this chatter on T-Net.
My only point being I would not get too upset with folks or think they want Clemson to fail if they share their views on the team.
Striper is not one I would care to argue X’s and 0’s and his thoughts on the season. Been reading for many years and for the most part he has been dead on it.
Hoping for a great season and hopefully all of us can enjoy the ride.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11472]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 13625
Joined: 10/27/04
|
Re: Realism is not negativism
Oct 26, 2022, 9:50 AM
|
|
Mountaineer like him or dislike him for his point of views I believe Striper to be one of the best at being a realists.
I too enjoy reading yours and JK’s optimistic post but it seems you guys are in the minority on Brownell’s tenure here at Clemson.
NC Tigs as well comes off as negative but expects more and wants the same things as you and JK do, which is consistency in our basketball program. Heck we all do.
I’m not knocking you or JK for what most would consider unwarranted optimism, but you need to be prepared to hear the other side without worrying a whole lot about it as it’s not hate for Clemson or about wanting to argue about the state of our program. We just want to win and if Brownell can not get it done then let’s move on and find someone that can. I do understand that with our history that would not be real easy.
I love Clemson but have been lost when it comes to basketball for the last few years,but am looking forward to re-engaging this season after reading all this chatter on T-Net.
My only point being I would not get too upset with folks or think they want Clemson to fail if they share their views on the team.
Striper is not one I would care to argue X’s and 0’s and his thoughts on the season. Been reading for many years and for the most part he has been dead on it.
Hoping for a great season and hopefully all of us can enjoy the ride.
I agree. Striper is the best. Mneer gets way too over sensitive that if you don't think Clemson is vastly improved losing 4 of its top 7 players from last year, bringing in a top 40 recruiting class. And a bottom 4 team ranking in the ACC from the transfer portal.
Gee, why do a lot of Clemson fans think this will be a potentially tough season?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19686]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17282
Joined: 8/18/05
|
An upgrade at PG is a shining example of you
Oct 26, 2022, 10:49 AM
[ in reply to Re: Realism is not negativism ] |
|
basing performance off of nothing but hope. We have no one on our roster who has started at PG. Hunter created, off the ball, last year. This year he's going to have it in his hands a high percentage of the time, unless his brother or Beadle can establish themselves at PG. That you refuse to acknowledge that difference is pure hope, not reality
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: An upgrade at PG is a shining example of you
Oct 26, 2022, 12:46 PM
|
|
basing performance off of nothing but hope. We have no one on our roster who has started at PG. Hunter created, off the ball, last year. This year he's going to have it in his hands a high percentage of the time, unless his brother or Beadle can establish themselves at PG. That you refuse to acknowledge that difference is pure hope, not reality
You seem to not read many of my posts on here. I've explained my viewpoint thoroughly.
If dawes was still on the team, he would be the starter at PG no doubt. I'm saying that we are upgrading our backcourt this year on paper. Last year our backcourt started honor at PG, and Dawes at SG. This year we are most likely starting chase hunter and Galloway.
I believe that chase hunter can succeed at pony guard for the following reasons:
- he was our best distributor and creator last year when he overtook honor's starting spot in ACC play.
- he attacks the basket better than dawes or honor
- he has a better midrange game than dawes and honor
- he is light years ahead of honor defensively. Also better than dawes
- will rebound better out of the guard spot.
- he is a senior that has practiced with the program for 3 years. He knows the plays.
Are you worried he's going to forget all of these things if he's bringing the ball up the court? This is high level basketball. He's a vet. I'm not worried about him playing point guard. Am I saying it's a fact he's going to have a good year at PG? No. It's just my opinion.
Don't really know how this would work, but I'll bet you $50 bucks that hunter has better stats than honor in the non conference. Stats would be agreed upon by you and I via tmail.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19686]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17282
Joined: 8/18/05
|
As the PG he will be the primary ball handler
Oct 26, 2022, 1:05 PM
|
|
he's never been that. As the PG he will initiate the offense, he's never done that. As the PG he won't be crashing the boards, he has to get back on defense. As the PG, will his shooting suffer with all the added responsibility? Brad said in his presser yesterday PG and C are asked to do more than any other positions. Beginning the year, we have guys who have never started a game at those positions. How you can declare an upgrade when Hunter was better than Galloway at 2G and you admit Dawes would start at PG is beyond me. BTW, I think we begin the year starting 3 guards, Chase, Beadle and Galloway against the smaller teams we'll be facing. I expect a fluid starting 5 until Hall returns with Chase and Tyson the only sure bets
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: As the PG he will be the primary ball handler
Oct 26, 2022, 2:49 PM
|
|
Both middlebrooks and Schef have started games. They looked better than most centers that have come through here not named Trevor booker, pj ball, and maybe james mayes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19686]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17282
Joined: 8/18/05
|
Seriously? Better than Elijah Thomas?
Oct 26, 2022, 3:00 PM
|
|
Better than Tree? Better than Horace Grant?Better than Moose Campbell? Elden Campbell? Dale Davis? Sharone Wright? Dave Angel? Sharrod Ford?
Now you're just trolling
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16252]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12783
Joined: 11/14/09
|
We've been in the Brownell malaise for so long
Oct 26, 2022, 3:55 PM
|
|
I think folks forget what type of talent and physicality we've been able to attract over the years.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19686]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17282
Joined: 8/18/05
|
Cliff could flat out recruit and develop big men
Oct 26, 2022, 4:16 PM
|
|
if Wayne Buckingham hadn't blown his knee out he would have had another one. Foster found Larry Nance from nowhere and Moose Campbell from then Anderson JC. Barnes in his short stint landed bruisers like Jamison and Wideman. Even Shyatt got Sherrod Ford. Brad got PJ, and PJ is really good. Elijah Thomas was good. But the Josh Smith's of the world proved to be exactly what they were, 2 star recruits.
C-PF are the most decorated positions in our history
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19686]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17282
Joined: 8/18/05
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: Seriously? Better than Elijah Thomas?
Oct 26, 2022, 4:03 PM
[ in reply to Seriously? Better than Elijah Thomas? ] |
|
I really meant the last 20 years or so. Basically brownell and OP. You seem quite a bit older than myself. we've had a ton of great bigs, but I don't remember exactly how good the were as freshman, and that isn't relevant to this conversation. Sharod Ford averaged 4.5 ppg his freshman year. It's close, but I'll give you that one. I forgot that Ford was pretty solid as a freshman under shyatt.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19686]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17282
Joined: 8/18/05
|
In the Brownell era
Oct 26, 2022, 4:08 PM
|
|
Jerai Grant and Devin Booker were better than Schieffelin and Middlebrooks as they hardly played last year. They are both totally unproven, with Ian playing out of position until Hall returns
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: In the Brownell era
Oct 26, 2022, 6:09 PM
|
|
Jeraib grant was very raw his first year. I think both Ben and middlebrooks were better as freshman.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [76935]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28601
Joined: 12/1/18
|
Will wager PJ is back sooner than most might think.***
Oct 26, 2022, 12:15 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19686]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17282
Joined: 8/18/05
|
I certainly hope so. Clemson is not the type program
Oct 26, 2022, 5:32 AM
|
|
That can lose its best player
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11472]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 13625
Joined: 10/27/04
|
Re: Off week hoops talk (long)
Oct 26, 2022, 7:18 AM
|
|
Great analysis, stripper fan. I agree want to win, like you , ust worry about defense with a lot of young players playing pivotal minutes. I also worry about rebounding. This is where the loss of David Collins was a big loss. Having a 6-4 wing who really rebounded well is going to really hurt, and neded to fill that last scholarship on a big wing in the portal especially since Brad said 6-6 frosh Chauncey Gibson might redshirt in a similar situation like Josh Beadle did last season.
It would be great if Clemson could land Manathatan transfer Jose Perez who just announced he is transfering and could be eligible in December if omitted for the 2nd semester.
See tweet:
https://twitter.com/portal_updates/status/1585100773201162240?s=20&t=0a-T6Fu1CeTrDgelZjT4Zg
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: Off week hoops talk (long)
Oct 26, 2022, 8:38 AM
|
|
Stripper fan. Lol.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12943]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6228
Joined: 1/26/16
|
Really good analysis here…
Oct 26, 2022, 8:06 AM
|
|
I agree on the importance of the early slate and OOC schedule.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19686]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17282
Joined: 8/18/05
|
Without PJ we are likely to struggle
Oct 26, 2022, 8:22 AM
|
|
that should be evident to all. If we can grind out enough wins to stay above .500 until he's back 100% the year could be better than most predict. But it will be a grind, likely in 8 of the 10 OOC games. We're not going to overwhelm anyone. Even playing well, most of those OOC games are likely to be close. Playing poorly will likely be very ugly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-Conference [403]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 581
Joined: 10/12/03
|
Re: Without PJ we are likely to struggle
Oct 26, 2022, 9:42 AM
|
|
I don't think PJ is going to miss eight OOC games. We shall see, but I'm confident you're going to see him back long before that. Will he be at full strength and in game shape? Hard to say after missing an entire offseason. But he'll definitely be logging minutes before then.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19686]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17282
Joined: 8/18/05
|
I hope so, we desperately need him
Oct 26, 2022, 12:45 PM
|
|
we're 8 days away from the start of the season and he hasn't even practiced yet. His cardio is going to have to be built up as he's been unable to do that type work with foot and knee issues since March. Whenever he begins to play, it may take a month after that to sew him close to 100%
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: I hope so, we desperately need him
Oct 26, 2022, 2:39 PM
|
|
Too be fair, he didn't practice all last year as well. I'm not sure how this injury effected his cardio compared to the foot injury. Im assuming he can do quite a bit of cardio now.
There's no doubt he has to be healthy for us to be successful. We will easily be over .500 without hall assuming he is back by late November.
Citadel - we should beat them
South Carolina - more question marks than us, but they do have a stud coming in. Will be interesting to see if he can take over the game. If not, we win
USC upstate - win
Bellarmine - could be a tough one.
Loyola Maryland - they haven't had a winning season since 2014
We should start 4-1 and then hopefully hall will be back. If we start off 2-3 then we are screwed regardless of hall.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19686]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17282
Joined: 8/18/05
|
I hope he is back in less than a month now
Oct 26, 2022, 3:07 PM
|
|
the real question is, when will he be 100%?
Any time we can get from him is a positive. But until he's 100%, other than the gimmes you listed, there isn't a sure win on the schedule. I counted 3 gimmes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1868]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 965
Joined: 9/9/18
|
I lnow you don’t need my approval
Oct 26, 2022, 8:16 AM
|
|
But it is yours
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4401]
TigerPulse: 62%
Posts: 4363
Joined: 10/13/13
|
Re: Off week hoops talk (long)
Oct 26, 2022, 9:42 AM
|
|
looks like PJ has been working out with the team - he appears in several of the videos in the hoops' twitter feed - so maybe he won't be lacking any (much?) fitness
but doing gym/strength work is not the same as playing/scrimmaging, especially coming off a knee injury
will probably go check out Rock the John tomorrow and will definitely go to the exhibition next week
i am with you, very cautiously optimistic about the season
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-Conference [403]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 581
Joined: 10/12/03
|
Re: Off week hoops talk (long)
Oct 26, 2022, 9:54 AM
|
|
I'll be at Rock the John too. Like the rest of y'all, I am also cautiously optimistic. I feel reasonably confident that this year's team will be at least slightly better than last -- but will it be enough to get into the tournament? We shall see! I sure hope so.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11472]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 13625
Joined: 10/27/04
|
Re: Off week hoops talk (long)
Oct 26, 2022, 10:17 AM
|
|
BTW, Field of 68 Panel had their ACC Preview. The Clemson segment starts at the 45 min mark. Jeff Goodman gives his HCs on the hotseat list.. Coach Brownell is number 1:
He says that Coach Brownell is a good coach, but just don't think he is going to win enough because he says that new AD Graham Neff wants to be more relevant in basketball and wants to win more consistently. Also, don't pay attention to the fact that he signed an extension last year. Its all about the buyout and if a school can afford that or not.
Randolph Childress on panel said Clemson has a fighters chance to be decent if PJ Hall is healthy. Here is link:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qSj8GKnUfHg
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-Conference [403]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 581
Joined: 10/12/03
|
Re: Off week hoops talk (long)
Oct 26, 2022, 5:56 PM
|
|
Brownell's is definitely the hottest seat of all. Maybe Keatts is right there with him. But Brownell is in a "win now" situation if there's ever been one. I am hopeful it doesn't come to that, but if he doesn't make the tournament, he will almost certainly be fired, and I am A-OK with that. However, I hope we make the tournament and maybe even win a game.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44044]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32956
Joined: 2/22/03
|
Except striperfan doesn’t sound cautiously optimistic.
Oct 26, 2022, 4:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: Off week hoops talk (long) ] |
|
Glad you are, though. I believe there is reason for optimism.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 36
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
