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Trainer [38]
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Just seems like an odd way to offer salvation
May 26, 2021, 11:19 AM
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You can’t see me or hear me, but I’m gonna give you this book that’s riddled with errors and inconsistencies, that’s gonna be used to defend genocide, misogyny, and racism, and if you don’t believe it’s words and live by them I’m gonna torture you for eternity...
That dude sounds worthy of worship. Hold my beer while I drop to my knees...
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All-TigerNet [13105]
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Re: Just seems like an odd way to offer salvation
May 26, 2021, 11:23 AM
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Are you describing “systemic racism”?
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Orange Blooded [4356]
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Obvs talking about the Quran***
May 26, 2021, 11:37 AM
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Freshman [9]
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Re: Obvs talking about the Quran***
May 26, 2021, 11:48 AM
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I mean they refer to the exact same Abrahamic God...
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Trainer [38]
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Re: Obvs talking about the Quran***
May 26, 2021, 2:39 PM
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My wife drags me to Sunday school every now and then. A few weeks ago this girl asked what god Muslims believed in.
When I spoke up and said the same one the teacher argued with me. True story.
It amazes me how little people know about the religion they will so vehemently defend.
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Freshman [9]
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Re: Obvs talking about the Quran***
May 26, 2021, 3:00 PM
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Yep, had this argument with my relatives. Had to explain that Christianity, Judaism and Islam all derived from the same Abrahamic God.
I was basically met with "nuh uh"
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Obvs talking about the Quran***
May 26, 2021, 3:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: Obvs talking about the Quran*** ] |
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Not the same God. Christianity believes in the holy trinity, Father , Son, and Holy Spirit. Muslims do not believe Jesus is God in flesh. Not the same at all.
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Freshman [9]
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Re: Obvs talking about the Quran***
May 26, 2021, 3:37 PM
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Muslims don't believe that Jesus is God but that doesn't mean that the God they worship derives from the same God that the bible did.
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Legend [17914]
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In Fact
May 26, 2021, 9:25 PM
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If you read the Christain Bible and Understand anything about it, you will know that Jesus is the Spoken Word of God - therefore, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth...Then God said (Jesus), let there be light and there was light.
So, you think the Muslims worship the same God of the OT as Christians?
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Freshman [9]
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Re: In Fact
May 26, 2021, 9:51 PM
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> So, you think the Muslims worship the same God of the OT as Christians?
I'm not suggesting that the two religions are the same or that you have the same understanding of "God" but yes, they both derived from the exact same Abrahamic God.
Christianity and Islam both derived from Judaism; first Christianity and then Islam a few centuries later. I'm not sure what your point of contention is with that to be honest.
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Legend [17914]
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Re: In Fact
May 26, 2021, 10:10 PM
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Well, I disagree that they both derive from the exact same Abrahamic God. True, Ishmael was the oldest son of Abraham but he was sent away after Isaac was born. Ishmael was sent away because he was not the son of promise.
Further, Judaism did not begin with Abraham. The Jewish People did not even have their treasured writings from God until Moses. Long after Ishmael was removed from the scene and, those writings, they were inclusive of the Jewish people alone...or anyone who denied their heritage and became Jewish through ritual means.
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Freshman [9]
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Re: In Fact
May 26, 2021, 10:39 PM
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Out of curiosity, I looked it up and Islam recognizes that Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus as messengers of god.
It also apparently mentioned the torah directly: “And [I have come] confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear Allah and obey me.”
So if Christianity and Islam aren't cut from the same cloth then I guess you think it's a giant coincidence?
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding or you are being pedantic I don't know but seems crystal clear to me that they derived from the same thing.
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Legend [17914]
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Re: In Fact
May 26, 2021, 10:49 PM
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I can understand how you would think the way you do. Especially since you don't know what the Torah is without looking it up.
I see you mention Noah, Abraham, and Moses. But, do you know who Melchizedek is? Or, how about Job? Wonder what the Muslims think of them?
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Freshman [9]
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Re: In Fact
May 27, 2021, 8:03 AM
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> I can understand how you would think the way you do. Especially since you don't know what the Torah is without looking it up.
Er... what? I looked up what the quran had to say about the torah, not what it is.
> I see you mention Noah, Abraham, and Moses. But, do you know who Melchizedek is? Or, how about Job? Wonder what the Muslims think of them?
I'm aware of Job but I fail to see how either of those people disprove my original argument that the christian and islamic god/religions derived from the same place.
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Trainer [38]
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Re: Obvs talking about the Quran***
May 26, 2021, 4:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: Obvs talking about the Quran*** ] |
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Muslims believe in the Old Testament. So yes, the believe in the same “father”. Obviously they don’t believe Jesus was the son of god. They do believe he was a prophet that his earliest followers made into a god....which is obviously what happened.
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Legend [17914]
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In Fact
May 26, 2021, 9:30 PM
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If the Muslims, as I have read, also believe that Jesus and Moohumid are brothers, then Jesus being the oldest of the brothers certainly has the privilege as the oldest Son to establish the life that a follower should live. Unless, of course, you think that the family structure doesn't really matter to the Mooslims.
Also, the early believers did not make Jesus into a god, obviously.
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Freshman [9]
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Re: In Fact
May 26, 2021, 9:55 PM
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It's a bit odd that you call them "Moohumid" and "Mooslims" but you get all bent out of shape if I said something like "jebus".
Both are silly, so I don't have a dog in that fight but those "mooslims" believe just as fervently as you and yet you mock them. A bit ironic to say the least...
All these are religions are contradictory, so someone has to be wrong (probably all religions), therefore it is super easy to believe that someone can fervently believe in their religion and still be wrong. You really aren't that different from them lol
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Legend [17914]
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You are right
May 26, 2021, 10:17 PM
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it was bad form on my part to belittle with those "names". I should be more technically correct and call them (those of the Muslim faith) antichrists and false prophets. A religion of lies and deciet is what Islam is.
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Freshman [9]
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Re: You are right
May 26, 2021, 10:27 PM
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Just out of curiosity, do you think that muslims know that they are "antichrists" and "false prohpets"? I mean, if you just pick a random every day muslim you think that their biggest concern is to defy the christian God?
Or.. is it more likely that they were just born to muslim parents and believe what they grew up with (the exact same way you did btw)?
I totally understand that Jihadism is a thing which leads to bs like isis and all that. That's not what I'm talking about, I just mean an every day muslim. I think it's super ironic that you think you differ in some significant way.
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Legend [17914]
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If Muslims believe with Truth and Sincerity
May 26, 2021, 10:41 PM
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then they fully understand that they are under the same condemnation as everyone else and that God does have a plan to solve that problem through Abraham and the son of promise. They also understand, then, that God had a promised son that HE ensured Abraham had with his wife Sarah, and it was not a son born to him by a hand maid. Knowing this is TRUE, and to reject that Ishmael (who was promised he would become a "wild man, His hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him")is not the son of promise is nothing more than the same action people take today when informed that JESUS is the only way to heaven.
Believing with truth dictates that they must know the truth and can correct the error they encounter against it...believing with sincerity means they can also see error within themselves and act to correct hat as well - to honor the God they claim to love. That same God that appointed Isaac and removed Ishmael.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Hey Huntclub
May 27, 2021, 6:37 AM
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Mathew 10:14-15.
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Freshman [9]
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Re: Hey Huntclub
May 27, 2021, 8:04 AM
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Sounds like a loving/peaceful religion...
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Hey Huntclub
May 27, 2021, 9:46 AM
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The message was for Hunt Club but I’m glad you read the scripture. It is very much a peaceful and loving religion but there are consequences for our choices. The point for Hunt Club is that there comes a time when we’ve spoken and the thing to do is just move on. Of course Hunt Club knows that I’m sure.
You’ve made your choice. You do not believe. Nothing more to discuss.
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Freshman [9]
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Re: Hey Huntclub
May 27, 2021, 10:33 AM
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The very scripture you mentioned isn't peaceful. The threat in that text is that it ends in eternal violence.
Here's the kicker though.. you have to believe even though you are given absolutely nothing to back up the claims otherwise eternal hellfire.
I'm not sure how to read that as either loving or peaceful but to each his own.
> You’ve made your choice. You do not believe. Nothing more to discuss.
This always baffles me on a politics/religious forum. What are you doing here if not to discuss politics and religion?
I do want to point out that you didn't "make a choice" either; at least not in the sense you mean anyway. You are Christian because of the environment you grew up in. You didn't choose your religion any more than the Hindu in India or the Muslim in Saudi Arabia did.
I would be cold hard cash that you've never seen/heard anything supernatural or anything that can't be explained naturally. You are convinced by stories you've been told.
If i'm wrong, i'd love the "meat" of what you are claiming. Not a single person has ever done that (for any religion mind you).
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Hey Huntclub
May 27, 2021, 10:50 AM
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I’m at work now and have limited time. I’ll post tonight. Check back
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Freshman [9]
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Re: Hey Huntclub
May 27, 2021, 11:53 AM
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Sounds good
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All-In [26503]
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Don’t worry ... you’ll get a chance to debate
May 26, 2021, 1:16 PM
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Him when you die
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All-In [42151]
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I have a feeling you ain't gonna like...
May 26, 2021, 1:39 PM
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Your highlight reel that he shows you, either.
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Freshman [9]
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Trainer [38]
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Re: Don’t worry ... you’ll get a chance to debate
May 26, 2021, 2:06 PM
[ in reply to Don’t worry ... you’ll get a chance to debate ] |
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Well the first bone I have to pick with him is why he gave me such a small wiener.
Next I’m gonna ask him why he lets children get raped, tortured and murdered on a daily basis.
Then I’m gonna drop my drawers and let him see my crusty white ### as I do a belly flop into the lake of fire.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Don’t worry ... you’ll get a chance to debate
May 26, 2021, 3:23 PM
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May the God you mock have mercy on your soul.
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Freshman [9]
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Re: Don’t worry ... you’ll get a chance to debate
May 26, 2021, 4:02 PM
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dude... you don't know anything that @sSloppy Joe or anyone else doesn't regarding the existence of a god.
How do I know this? Because if I asked you to give me a shingle shred of verifiable evidence, you wouldn't be able to produce it. Neither would/has anyone else. We don't even have a blurry video; even aliens have that 
You believe what you do mostly because of where you happened to be born. If you were born in Saudi Arabia, the Gaza stripe or India you'd be a Muslim or Hindu with almost 100% certainty.
Those people would be just as fervent as you that their god would punish Sloppy Joe for his "blasphemy".
Stop acting like you are privy to some divine knowledge. You are just listening to what your parents/pastor told you who also can't back up their claims with any kind of evidence.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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The word Jesus, or just the thought, causes anger.
May 26, 2021, 2:28 PM
[ in reply to Don’t worry ... you’ll get a chance to debate ] |
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Always has, always will: since before creation, and past it. Dont get diverted by a personal insult.
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Trainer [38]
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Re: The word Jesus, or just the thought, causes anger.
May 26, 2021, 2:35 PM
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Who did it insult before creation?
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Freshman [9]
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Re: The word Jesus, or just the thought, causes anger.
May 26, 2021, 2:37 PM
[ in reply to The word Jesus, or just the thought, causes anger. ] |
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Huh? Christianity, is pretty new on the scene with regard to religions and certainly on the human timescale (100's of thousands of years).
Its it patently false that it has "always" been that way. Christianity borrowed from many older religions so i'm not sure how you can say that it's been that way since "creation".
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110%er [8984]
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Re: Just seems like an odd way to offer salvation
May 26, 2021, 1:26 PM
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sloppy got Jesus on his mind
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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What is your end goal with these things?
May 26, 2021, 1:37 PM
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Do you think you’re going to convert someone to atheism with you?
Do you want to be saved?
Are you just trying to be a ######?
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Freshman [9]
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Re: What is your end goal with these things?
May 26, 2021, 2:03 PM
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Isn't this a forum specifically for politics and religion?
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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Re: What is your end goal with these things?
May 26, 2021, 2:24 PM
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So you’re going with- pointless?
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Freshman [9]
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Re: What is your end goal with these things?
May 26, 2021, 2:38 PM
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Insofar as anything else on this forum is pointless, yeah sure.
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Legend [17914]
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Don't speak badly of this forum
May 26, 2021, 9:36 PM
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especially since you take pointless to a special level. lol
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Freshman [9]
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Re: Don't speak badly of this forum
May 26, 2021, 9:56 PM
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When did I speak badly about this forum? Also, why are you so touchy?
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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"gonna be used to defend..."
May 26, 2021, 3:24 PM
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That's a pretty shoddy argument. Lots of stuff is used to defend atrocities. I mean the "atheist" communists used their ideology to defend the genocide of over 200 million people in the 20th century.
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110%er [8984]
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Re: "gonna be used to defend..."
May 26, 2021, 3:37 PM
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mao and stalin made hitler look like a rookie
both leftie heros
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re:
May 26, 2021, 4:35 PM
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Mao, Stalin and/or Hitler are leftie heros???
What you talkin bout Willis?
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Trainer [38]
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Re: "gonna be used to defend..."
May 26, 2021, 4:28 PM
[ in reply to "gonna be used to defend..." ] |
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Shoddy analogy.
Atheist don’t claim to have the holy inspired perfect word of the almighty creator.
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Legend [17914]
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Complete the analogy...
May 26, 2021, 9:38 PM
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of the Almighty Creator... no, you are correct. The Holy inspired perfect word of their own creation... Yes, yes they do.
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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For the most part they do, their "creator" is just some
May 26, 2021, 9:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: "gonna be used to defend..." ] |
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######## cult of personality like Marx, Stalin, etc. Atheists pretend to have no faith in a supreme being, but they lie. In reality, their god is the state.
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Trainer [38]
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Re: For the most part they do, their "creator" is just some
May 27, 2021, 7:15 AM
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Again though, the bible is supposed to be different. It's supposed to be the word of god. But it's used to defend these atrocities because it's so open to interpretation. Why would god make it that way?
Seems like he would make his word perfectly clear.
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Oculus Spirit [93667]
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For someone who claims to not believe in God...
May 26, 2021, 6:25 PM
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you sure try to strike with venom a lot.
If you're trying to pisz Christians off I can tell you right now. I am not commissioned to defend God or the Bible especially with someone who is so angry they are deaf.
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Trainer [38]
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Re: For someone who claims to not believe in God...
May 27, 2021, 7:12 AM
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I am not trying to #### anybody off. Just making an observation. Why don't you respond to the OP? Why is an egotistical dictator like the bible describes god worthy of worship?
If someone on earth had those characteristics you'd call him a psychopath.
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Orange Blooded [4018]
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Re: Just seems like an odd way to offer salvation
May 26, 2021, 8:03 PM
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*unless you're Jewish or Israeli. Then you can do what you want without any repercussions cause your "chosen".
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Legend [16794]
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T-Net...where men argue over
May 27, 2021, 7:42 AM
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What other men wrote/write about religion...and somehow believe it originated 'on High'. Man is given eyes and a brain and yet...so seldom seems to want to use either.
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