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CU Medallion [55251]
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Question for the folks that are actually Clemson grads, or
Jun 17, 2021, 10:51 AM
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employed in management at Clemson. What would it take for Clemson University to become a school with student enrollment the size of the biggest/richest schools in the ACC or any other conference???
I ask bc it's always said that Clemson don't have the money that the bigger schools have bc of the size student enrollment....
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CU Guru [1257]
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Re: Question for the folks that are actually Clemson grads, or
Jun 17, 2021, 10:53 AM
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Clemson has always wanted to remain a "small" school.
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Heisman Winner [139826]
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Smaller is better…
Jun 17, 2021, 10:53 AM
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Trust me.
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Oculus Spirit [76636]
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Re: Smaller is better…
Jun 17, 2021, 11:16 AM
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That’s not what Bob said.
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Oculus Spirit [82946]
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18-19 enrollment shows the 3 largest schools as:
Jun 17, 2021, 10:58 AM
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FSU 41,000
State 35,000
VT 34,000
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Asst Coach [733]
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Re: 18-19 enrollment shows the 3 largest schools as:
Jun 17, 2021, 9:37 PM
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Why am I brain dead….who is “state”? Ohio st?
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Legend [16058]
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NC State...Ohio State has like 80k***
Jun 17, 2021, 9:48 PM
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110%er [9045]
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But we'll grown a lot because.........
Jun 17, 2021, 11:06 AM
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when I was in school in the mid-70s there were about 12,000 total students and now isn't the total enrollment over 20,000?
I just don't think there's a big commitment to growing the school. The commitment is focusing on quality of the university, not the quantity of students.
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CU Guru [1257]
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Re: But we'll grown a lot because.........
Jun 17, 2021, 10:14 PM
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That's when I was there, 77. I distinctly remember at orientation (in good old Tillman Hall with no air conditioning at the time) we were told that Clemson wanted to keep enrollment low. Their thoughts were that smaller schools are more involved with the community, and that if you accept a plethora of students that the value of your degree goes down. In fact, graduating from Clemson carries with it a much higher honor than the schools who accept you if you have a pulse!
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CU Medallion [51778]
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Varsity [202]
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Re: But we'll grown a lot because.........
Jun 18, 2021, 7:53 PM
[ in reply to But we'll grown a lot because......... ] |
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when I was in school in the mid-70s there were about 12,000 total students and now isn't the total enrollment over 20,000?
I just don't think there's a big commitment to growing the school. The commitment is focusing on quality of the university, not the quantity of students.
I agree 100 percent. The numbers are below
20,608 apllied one 2020
17,715 accepted
4199 actually enrolled
It is to my understanding that 2021 was over 40k applications. I also think if your not close to a straight A high school student your chances to be accepted are greatly reduced with some exceptions. 56% percent of students that got accepted were from South Carolina
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110%er [6223]
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Re: Question for the folks that are actually Clemson grads, or
Jun 17, 2021, 11:17 AM
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I hope it stays small, the campus is starting to look cluttered as it is. I like a college campus to have open space with some green lawns.
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Walk-On [121]
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Re: Question for the folks that are actually Clemson grads, or
Jun 17, 2021, 11:21 AM
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When is the last time any of you were in Clemson? Although it is not officially a strategy, there is talk here of growing enrollment into the 30s. Somebody believes that there is going to be some serious student population growth in the next few years, have you seen all the apartments that are going up all over town? The planning has been poor and the infrastructure is not in place to support that many students at this point. I live in downtown Clemson and I hope I am long gone before they have 30-35k students in town.
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Legend [16186]
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Re: Question for the folks that are actually Clemson grads, or
Jun 18, 2021, 11:33 AM
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Lots of alumni are moving back close to their schools all over the country. Clemson is no exception. Lots of second homes and condos within 20 miles of Death Valley. Nice rental apartments aimed at the over the hill gang are going to be more common.
The percentage of students driving cars is way up. These developments make our school a little different every year.
So the traffic gets worse, more merchants follow the crowd and the cycle continues. I get to most home games, see a basketball or baseball game from time to time and enjoy all my visits. Forlornly hoping Clemson stays a smallish college town isn't going to slow down change. Kids born this year will likely attend a 40-50,000 student school.
The place had 6,000 total students when I started, but the state is 4 times larger now.
But in 20 years FSU is likely to be twice as large as it is now.
Do we need our own T.Boone Pickens or Phil Knight?
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Orange Blooded [2759]
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To beat FSU in population?
Jun 17, 2021, 11:42 AM
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Let's see:
Lower our admission standards
Raze Bowman Field and put a huge admin building on it
Raze Downtown for more academic buildings
Raze Thornhill for highrises and parking garages
Raze the Botanical gardens for even more highrises and parking garages, and another Chik-Fil-A.
That might get us there.
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All-Pro [686]
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Re: To beat FSU in population?
Jun 17, 2021, 11:53 AM
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While I wouldn't mind seeing Clemson add some more graduate programs, there is definitely enough real estate to support significant growth for a reasonable development cost, at least in comparison to most other campuses across the country (ex: UCLA).
The traffic pattern isnt great and the side of campus opposite to downtown would have to bear the brunt of the expansion, but there is absolutely a lot of room to grow, if that is the plan.
Personally, I'd bump the undergrad population up a little, just for the economics, but add a business and law school. Need more grad students to keep Nick's in business.
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Legend [18780]
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Point for mentioning Nicks.***
Jun 18, 2021, 4:34 PM
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Associate AD [805]
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Re: Question for the folks that are actually Clemson grads, or
Jun 17, 2021, 11:49 AM
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It's not the size of the student body, per se, but the number of alumni - of course they're related, but you cannot automatically increase the size of the alumni base immediately by adding 10000 students.
In 1970, Clemson had 8000 students. Through most of the 80s and 90s, it grew to about 15000. Now they're at 25000 and looking to grow to 28000. Let's assume that 30000 is about an upper limit. Say 25000 undergrads and 5000 grad students. By and large, those 5000 grads have undergrad degrees at other school (which would be their alma maters.). Assume annual graduation at 5000 seniors. Currently, total alum number greater than 170000. Assume annual deaths from that group at 3000. So, you'd grow the alumni base by 2000/year - - and in 10 years, you'd have 20000 more than now. By comparison, Michigan has more than 670000 living alumni.
See the problem?
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Walk-On [132]
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Re: Question for the folks that are actually Clemson grads, or
Jun 17, 2021, 11:52 AM
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Perception sometimes is not reality ... first off being part of the Clemson "Family" is a bi-product of the size ... having graduated in '87 - (and for anyone who graduated here from say 1980 - early 2000s) - when the TOTAL student enrollment was a bit over 12K (just under 11K undergrad) meant it was small enough to "know everyone, yet large enough to be anonymous when you wanted to be" (quoting another alum) --- the stated goal now is to grow the student population 2% a year however, we have exceeded that number for the last several years and actually this year will be a bit over a 4% increase in the Freshman class --- we should be a around 27K in total enrollment and around 21K in undergrad enrollment for the coming year (Total enrollment is up almost 20% in the last 5 years).
Obviously, with the success of football and the money that has followed, the university first turned it's sights to improving the academic side (quality of student and the desire to be a top 30 university which it achieved) and as of this year is shifting those dollars to working on diversity and the underrepresented student population along with growth. Football and participating in the common app, means this year's class of 4300 give or take will come from about 45000 applications. That number (the application number) had more than doubled in the past 7 years.
Having also sat on a couple of advisory boards of the past 5-10 years, the biggest comment from those that are alums is about keeping the size to where Clemson continues to provide the unique student experience that a lot of our peers cannot. At one point 8-10 years ago, we were just under 50% of the undergrad population of UGA. We used to be half of Auburn, USC, etc ... Now we are at about 70% of UGA's undergrad pop. for next year and are quickly catching Auburn. Staff usually responds that we can't grow that fast due to lack of infrastructure, yet if you add 200-400 undergrad students a year we grow pretty quickly. That said, never hurts alums, parents of alums and current students, etc ... to voice your opinion. They actually do listen (most of the time  )
Just for comparison for those that don't already know (undergrad enrollments):
Ohio St 46,984
FL 35,405
FL St 33,270
Alabama 32,795
UGA 29,752
Va Tech 29,300
S.Car 27,502
NC St 25,973
Auburn 24,594
TN 23,290
===============
CLEMSON 20,868
===============
UNC 19,355
GA Tech 15,964
UVA 11,786
Miami 11,307
N.Dame 8,731
Duke 6,649
Wake Forest 5,200
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All-In [43979]
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A lot of schools got a huge head start by having large endowments.
Jun 17, 2021, 11:18 PM
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The wealthiest schools are private, with large endowments and investments early on in majors leading to professions such as law, medicine, etc. Many of these schools are small in terms of enrollment, and thus highly selective. And they offer quality over quantity.
Clemson started as a public land grant school focused on science and agriculture. No large endowment. No prestigious high level graduate/professional programs. Only in recent years have we started focusing more on graduate programs with any real investment, and even at that it’s not programs that tend to lead to the highest paying careers.
I am disappointed that Clemson has increased undergrad enrollment so much recently. Rather than grow the undergrad population, I would have preferred to keep it small (and thus as selective as possible) and instead focus on adding certain graduate programs like medicine and law. These programs increase academic reputation and also create more alumni who have more money to donate to the school the rest of their lives.
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Freshman [-99]
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Very well said. Agree 100 percent. Class of 88.
Jun 18, 2021, 2:57 PM
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Point.
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Oculus Spirit [96772]
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Oculus Spirit [76636]
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Re: Obviously it never hurts to be
Jun 18, 2021, 4:32 PM
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Some endowments start small, but later grow. These are called, growing endowments vs those that started with a large endowment. Some people refer to them as a “shower.”
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Commissioner [905]
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Re: A lot of schools got a huge head start by having large endowments.
Jun 18, 2021, 8:06 PM
[ in reply to A lot of schools got a huge head start by having large endowments. ] |
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Agree on adding Law. Maybe have missed the opportunity with SC having med school of sorts now at Prisma in Greenville. Possibly Vet school might fit, but I don’t know about supply and demand on that. Did we ever get a Music major?
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Orange Blooded [2523]
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Re: Question for the folks that are actually Clemson grads, or
Jun 18, 2021, 3:04 PM
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The small-town Clemson atmosphere is starting to go away. With Clements as president, we're continuing to grow larger every year. Add in the new school of Business and the success of the football team, I don't see the growth stopping. I feel like the school has too many students for the actual size of Clemson. We're getting a lot of out of state students these days as well. I wonder what our school will look like in 10 years.
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Legend [16470]
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I think Clemson has already become larger than it need to be
Jun 18, 2021, 3:45 PM
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at this point. Between increase in size and the reduction in on-campus housing, it pretty much forces the last 2 if not 3 years to off-campus housing. Seems a shame to me on many fronts.
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Hall of Famer [24654]
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Re: Question for the folks that are actually Clemson grads, or
Jun 20, 2021, 2:13 PM
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I don't see Universities growing in the future.
Because of Covid shutting down in person classroom attendance and students not being on campus but taking classes on internet, it has exposed the myth of
students having to be in a classroom to learn.
With the advent of the internet and the cost of a college degree having gotten exorbitantly expensive, leaving many students with huge debt after graduation, and leaving many parents in debt as well, a cheaper alternative will be getting a degree via
the internet.
Many students attending college have no business being there. Many are paying for useless degrees.
If I had a business or investments in college towns that exist solely on the presence of a college or university, such as Clemson, State College (Penn State), VT at Blacksburg, Va., etc., I would be looking elsewhere to relocate. Once the University enrollment starts to decline, it is too late to bail out w/o taking a big financial hit.
Of course if the federal government steps in and gives free tuition to anyone who wants to attend college, all bets are off. And that may very well happen.
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