|
Notre Dame, old dog, old tricks....
storage
This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
|
Replies: 41
| visibility 1
|
110%er [7219]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6986
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Notre Dame, old dog, old tricks....
Jul 26, 2022, 8:28 AM
|
|
Well folks, Notre Dame was getting pressured to join the B1G. B1G could stop scheduling Notre Dame altogether. But for the NBC contract to be lucrative for Notre Dame, they need attractive home games- that is what NBC is buying. And frankly, Duke @ ND just doesn’t draw eyeballs, like 70% of ACC foes. If the B1G stops scheduling the BB heads, the games are worth less to NBC.
So, Notre Dame looked into their decades old playbook, and are running an “oldie but goodie”. Flirt with ANOTHER conference. NBC wants them to enter into some kind of “partnership” with the Big12. Seeing the PAC12 implode, they hope for some merger between the PAC 12 and the Big12, to provide better inventory.
Where does that leave the ACC? I suspect out in the cold, at least as far as Notre Dame is concerned. Wait for THAT shoe to drop- it’s coming. The ACC games will be even LESS attractive to networks because this will remove the LARGE Notre Dame market from the inventory.
This is the price you pay when you make a “deal” with Notre Dame. The footing is never equal, they are with you until a better option comes along, and they always have a cheap way out.
This whole Notre Dame deal was a Swofford boondoggle to keep Clemson and FSU in the ACC when it looked like they were leaving for the Big12. And we were stupid enough to bind ourselves to this 2nd rate league through 2036. Wow. Just wow.
|
|
|
|
 |
All-TigerNet [10809]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12661
Joined: 9/28/10
|
Re: Notre Dame, old dog, old tricks....
Jul 26, 2022, 8:43 AM
|
|
I find the comments on videos from Big 12 fans that think Notre Dame is going to save them comical. The Big 12 will not get the money ND is getting for just having a Big 12 companion game on NBC. ND is not interested in playing those remaining Big 12 schools or the new additions not named BYU.
Looking now like Big 12 should have chilled on adding the Group of Five schools- UCF, Cincy and Houston and waited on a merger with the PAC.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7219]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6986
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Notre Dame, old dog, old tricks....
Jul 26, 2022, 8:52 AM
|
|
It would SEEM that adding those schools was premature, but they are relatively big TV market cities. Fan following not so great, but it seems for these networks that doesn’t matter. I can’t follow the math. 80% of a 1 million viewer market should be better than 20% of a 3 million viewer market. But apparently, that’s not how they think.
Rumors are Big 12 is going to get $50 million per school in the new contract even after adding these seemingly light weight football teams. That contract will dwarf the ACC deal.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10809]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12661
Joined: 9/28/10
|
Re: Notre Dame, old dog, old tricks....
Jul 26, 2022, 9:00 AM
|
|
I'll believe them getting that much (once UT and OU leave) when I see it. Cincy, UCF and Houston make what 7-9 million now in the AAC? No one was clamoring to bring them up. Just don't see them moving the needle that much for the Big 12.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
|
If a re-made Big 12 expands to 16 teams
Jul 26, 2022, 10:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: Notre Dame, old dog, old tricks.... ] |
|
and negotiates a new TV deal, then the ACC will expand to 16 teams and also renegotiate a deal.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5512]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4986
Joined: 10/21/15
|
Re: If a re-made Big 12 expands to 16 teams
Jul 26, 2022, 10:38 AM
|
|
Which teams would join the ACC that would strengthen the conference and sweeten the pot for TV revenue?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
|
I don't know but one of the P5
Jul 26, 2022, 11:19 AM
|
|
will likely go away at this point and dissolve into a P4 with 16 teams each. The only other option is to group all of P5 into an "NFC" and "AFC" and create an NFL model. In that case there would be one huge TV contract spilt evenly among the "NFC" and "AFC". Having two conferences like the B1G and SEC with ~ 20 teams each cannot work. Too many big schools and markets untapped. They will either need to split the rest of P5 amongst those two for the NFL model, or stay at 16 and two more 16-team conferences will form. Some viable markets are West Virginia, Oregon, Washington, OK State, etc. I dunno, it's a crapshoot really.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [17522]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14121
Joined: 10/24/10
|
Notre Dame TV ratings magic is disappearing ...
Jul 27, 2022, 10:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: Notre Dame, old dog, old tricks.... ] |
|
Notre Dame has maintained many older traditional Catholic football fans, but the audience is diminishing due to other options for younger viewers, and less Catholic loyalty to ND and NBC as the ND network. Many Catholic fans would rather watch Bama-LSU or UGA-Clemson over Notre Dame-USC or Notre Dame-Navy. I hear the pageantry is amazing at South Bend. But as eSECpn states every weekend and every day leading up to Thurs, Fri, Sat games ... "the SEC ... it just means more." And they've convinced most of America this is true. See attached 2021 ND ratings decline.
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2021/11/30/Media/Notre-Dame-TV.aspx
My take is ND will be a big get for the B1G, but then Ohio State and maybe Michigan will outdraw ND on ratings. Without their own network, ND's exclusivity will not be the same.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13036]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 22353
Joined: 4/24/04
|
What kind of contract does ND have with the ACC
Jul 26, 2022, 9:10 AM
|
|
for the 5 games per season?
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7219]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6986
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: What kind of contract does ND have with the ACC
Jul 26, 2022, 9:13 AM
|
|
I have no idea, but I can tell you, rest assured that any Swofford/ Notre Dame deal will be one sided, with an easy exit for ND.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5512]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4986
Joined: 10/21/15
|
Re: What kind of contract does ND have with the ACC
Jul 26, 2022, 9:28 AM
[ in reply to What kind of contract does ND have with the ACC ] |
|
Contract runs through 2036. ND gets about $10M annually from the deal (on top of what they get from their independent deal with NBC).
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64519]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88961
Joined: 3/27/01
|
Notre Dame's deal with the ACC runs through 2036...
Jul 26, 2022, 10:24 AM
[ in reply to What kind of contract does ND have with the ACC ] |
|
That deal basically states that Notre Dame competes in the ACC for most of their sports, like basketball and baseball, while football gets to remain independent. The caveat is that they have to play five ACC teams annually in football. That agreement goes through 2036, and during that time period, the only conference Notre Dame can join is the ACC.
Honestly, if the Bee Bee Heads decide to buy their way out of that deal, I think other ACC teams could then make a compelling argument that the ACC landscape has materially changed because of a loss of several games a year against Notre Dame, and therefore, the GOR should be voided.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13036]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 22353
Joined: 4/24/04
|
Yeah, that's what i was curious about.
Jul 26, 2022, 2:41 PM
|
|
I feel like if ND bolts that would give any other ACC member, at the very least, a really good court case. It's also possible it would just cause an outright collapse of the league.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [43994]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32929
Joined: 2/22/03
|
Last time I checked, Notre Dame didn’t cause the problems
Jul 26, 2022, 9:21 AM
|
|
we are seeing in college football.
They didn’t cause the huge TV contracts, high coaches’ salaries, or NIL. They also didn’t create conference realignment.
All Notre Dame is doing is adjusting as best as they can for their specific situation, just like everyone else is doing.
Time to bury the hate, man.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7219]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6986
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Last time I checked, Notre Dame didn’t cause the problems
Jul 26, 2022, 9:31 AM
|
|
Judge, I can cast some dispersion Notre Dame’s way without remorse. They will break this deal they made that trapped Clemson and others until 2036, with a cheap way out while our exit seems draconian. Granted, our stupidity played a role for agreeing to this in the first place, but that doesn’t clear Notre Dame’s reputation in MY eyes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64519]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88961
Joined: 3/27/01
|
Notre Dame is just looking out for their own best interests
Jul 26, 2022, 10:15 AM
|
|
and frankly, Clemson should be doing the same.
This is why I firmly believe schools like UNC, Miami, FSU and Clemson should be working collectively and collaboratively to find a way out the ACC's inequitable and oppressive GOR.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [43994]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32929
Joined: 2/22/03
|
I think Notre Dame would have a very tough time
Jul 26, 2022, 1:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: Last time I checked, Notre Dame didn’t cause the problems ] |
|
getting out of their contract with the ACC.
From my understanding, they would have to get out of the grant of rights agreement, which doesn't seem easy to do. Moreover, their deal supposedly requires that if they join a conference for football, that it be the ACC.
So if Notre Dame can overcome all of that to join another conference, then we would absolutely be able to from a legal perspective.
What makes you think they can easily get out of their contract with the ACC?
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7219]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6986
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: I think Notre Dame would have a very tough time
Jul 26, 2022, 2:33 PM
|
|
They would pay an exit fee like any leaving would- but that isn't the big hurdle. They would lose TV media rights until 2036 for all sports EXCEPT FOOTBALL. Which is where 90% of the money comes from. It would be an easy hurdle for Notre Dame.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [43994]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32929
Joined: 2/22/03
|
I have seen predictions that the ACC’s exit fee is over $100 million.
Jul 26, 2022, 3:05 PM
|
|
Do you really think Notre Dame finds the ACC so bad, or another conference potentially so good, that they would pay that kind of money?
Because I don’t.
I don’t see Notre Dame joining another conference anytime soon. They are most likely to stay independent in football and be content to remain in the ACC for all other sports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7219]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6986
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: I have seen predictions that the ACC’s exit fee is over $100 million.
Jul 26, 2022, 3:07 PM
|
|
100 Million over 13 years is less than 8 Million a year of new revenue to break even on the deal. They'll see MULTIPLES of that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16227]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12771
Joined: 11/14/09
|
Re: I have seen predictions that the ACC’s exit fee is over $100 million.
Jul 26, 2022, 3:22 PM
|
|
We also don't know what Notre Dame's buyout figure would be considering football isn't included. I would doubt it would be the same as full members.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [43994]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32929
Joined: 2/22/03
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5512]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4986
Joined: 10/21/15
|
Re: If it’s paid over 13 years, I don’t see any of the top 5-6 ACC teams staying.
Jul 26, 2022, 5:09 PM
|
|
That's not how GOR works.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64519]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88961
Joined: 3/27/01
|
Anything and everything is negotiable***
Jul 26, 2022, 7:22 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7219]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6986
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [30766]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 34465
Joined: 6/22/03
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64519]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88961
Joined: 3/27/01
|
Notre Dame has always been and remains...
Jul 26, 2022, 1:48 PM
|
|
one of my all-time least favorite teams. The only time I'd like ever pull for them would be against the Leg Humpers or uof7c. Possibly Nancy State and Mee-she-gin just because of my disdain for their coaches.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93609]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95384
Joined: 12/25/09
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13036]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 22353
Joined: 4/24/04
|
I actually agree with this. A lot of people hate ND and i
Jul 26, 2022, 2:44 PM
[ in reply to Last time I checked, Notre Dame didn’t cause the problems ] |
|
think that's coloring their judgement on this issue. ND is ultimately a traditionalist when most of the other powers in CFB are actively working to kill (either outright or via collateral damage) many of the great traditions that have made CFB special.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2468]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3400
Joined: 9/5/04
|
Re: Notre Dame, old dog, old tricks....
Jul 26, 2022, 9:21 AM
|
|
This, to me, gives Clemson and others in the ACC leverage to sue to break the GOR. The conference's TV package would lose significant value without ND on the schedule.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7219]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6986
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Notre Dame, old dog, old tricks....
Jul 26, 2022, 9:26 AM
|
|
Excellent point. +1.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16227]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12771
Joined: 11/14/09
|
Re: Notre Dame, old dog, old tricks....
Jul 26, 2022, 9:52 AM
[ in reply to Re: Notre Dame, old dog, old tricks.... ] |
|
I don't think NBC is asking ND to join the Big XII so much as they're looking for a similar pool of games type arrangement with them that they have with the ACC. NBC doesn't want to just have a single stand-along football game with ND every other Saturday, they're looking for some additional college football to either fill in the gaps or to have on as part of a doubleheader and lead-in game. It's hard to generate continuity and traction with only the 7 games or so per season they have now. NBC either needs to pick up some additional college football content to go along with their ND deal or exit the field entirely.
So a Notre Dame / NBC deal that brings in some Big XII content won't really affect their ACC arrangement, as I see it. There is NO WAY that Notre Dame would give up their football independence to join the Big XII, as it exists today or pretty much any configuration that they could dream up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7219]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6986
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Notre Dame, old dog, old tricks....
Jul 26, 2022, 9:59 AM
|
|
Um, Notre Dame has a limited number of games to sell. And all the games can’t be at home, there would be no “meat” for the Big12. I think these “deals” are mutually exclusive and we will learn this soon.
It is possible that the ACC is about to dissolve which forced Notre Dame into this arrangement. But I doubt this was the catalyst.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64519]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88961
Joined: 3/27/01
|
So you think the ACC is about to dissolve?
Jul 26, 2022, 1:42 PM
|
|
Barring something unforeseen, I don't see that happening, at least not in the near term.
The ACC will try use the GOR like a ball and chain to keep the current teams imprisoned. This may be the leagues only hope for survival so they'll cling to it like grim death.
The college football landscape is very fluid. In three to five years, things will look very different than they do today.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [43994]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32929
Joined: 2/22/03
|
Exactly. The ACC has zero incentive to dissolve
Jul 26, 2022, 1:51 PM
|
|
and break the grant of rights deal.
Some people act like the ACC is going to just let its members go somewhere else so they don't get "left behind." LOL.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64519]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88961
Joined: 3/27/01
|
This is all about self-preservation...
Jul 26, 2022, 2:28 PM
|
|
The ACC will place its own best interests above all else which is why I have maintained that schools like UNC, Miami, FSU and Clemson need to be working collectively and collaboratively to find a way of the GOR.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16227]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12771
Joined: 11/14/09
|
Enough of the ACC's members may feel that there is a
Jul 26, 2022, 3:01 PM
[ in reply to Exactly. The ACC has zero incentive to dissolve ] |
|
better option than the current status quo. If that number is 8 (a majority), they could dissolve the league, or threaten to do so, and rework and retool things as they see fit. Individually is a non-starter. A bloc of 8 is game over.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13036]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 22353
Joined: 4/24/04
|
Maybe, but think about who the "ACC" ultimately is
Jul 26, 2022, 2:49 PM
[ in reply to So you think the ACC is about to dissolve? ] |
|
It's just the member institutions. Only those with no better options would choose to stay aboard the sinking ship. If half the league decides there are greener pastures elsewhere, there is no ACC to keep anyone imprisoned.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64519]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88961
Joined: 3/27/01
|
It's a vicious circle...
Jul 26, 2022, 3:20 PM
|
|
If eight teams were to leave, that would effectively spell the end of the ACC. However, those teams all need a new conference to call home, and right now, no one is sending out any invitations, and that is largely because of the ACC's GOR. Other conference aren't interested in dealing with that. However, if a handful of ACC schools work together to find a way out, you might see other conferences come calling.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93609]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95384
Joined: 12/25/09
|
Along with the devaluing of the TV contract...
Jul 26, 2022, 1:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: Notre Dame, old dog, old tricks.... ] |
|
ND is a big draw at any stadium they visit. It's not that Clemson can't fill Death Valley unless ND comes to town but that negative effect on the rest of the conference would leave an economic mark in a few years. I doubt Clemson will be the loudest dog barking if ND wiggles its way out of the GOR.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [55306]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58357
Joined: 7/18/07
|
Re: Notre Dame, old dog, old tricks....
Jul 26, 2022, 10:11 AM
|
|
Swofford should lose all perks he probably received from the ACC after retirement. IMPO, he was the worst person ever for the ACC under his management!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83006]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80122
Joined: 11/29/99
|
Clemson never considered going to the Big 12.***
Jul 27, 2022, 11:03 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 41
| visibility 1
|
|
|
|
50
