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YOUR BALANCE
New Story: Bama defense best of all time? Clemson's 2014 group is in the conversation
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New Story: Bama defense best of all time? Clemson's 2014 group is in the conversation


Mar 24, 2017, 8:01 AM

 
Bama defense best of all time? Clemson's 2014 group is in the conversation

The greatest defense of all time. Those are big words to throw out there, but we heard it a lot last season as Alabama made its run to the championship game against Clemson. That defense was good. Really, really good. But the greatest of all time? We tend to say something is the greatest of all time, but we look through the biased lenses of our era and time. Full Story »


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Re: New Story: Bama defense best of all time? Clemson's 2014 group is in the conversation


Mar 24, 2017, 8:02 AM

think our 2017 group has every ability to challenge for that honor

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Re: New Story: Bama defense best of all time? Clemson's 2014 group is in the conversation


Mar 24, 2017, 8:58 AM

So do I. I am not at all scared about what lies ahead of the Tiger team that will take the field this year. Even without DW4, who was epic, we will be very, very good on both sides of the ball. That won't change for a long time, because our team is built on a very solid foundation of talent and character. Opponents better buckle it up tight when they play Clemson's Tigers.

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IMO: 2014 was our best D ever...


Mar 24, 2017, 8:11 AM

2015 was our best team ever
2016 was our best O ever

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the 1989 D set the bar for defense at Clemson


Mar 24, 2017, 5:42 PM

which was #1 nationally as well. the star power puts that D ahead of even 2014 with Levon Kirkland, John Johnson, Chester McGlockton, Brentson Buckner(freshman), Ed McDaniel, Jerome Henderson, and Wayne Simmons who all had significant pro careers. then you have Doug Brewster, Robert O'Neal(freshman), Vance Hammonds, Dexter Davis, Ashley Sheppard(freshman), and James Lott who all had all conference and/or all american accolades.

"Best Ever" is always subjective, but I'm taking that '89 defense ahead of the '14 defense...

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Major Harris' Mom agrees***


Mar 24, 2017, 11:59 PM



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Everything that could go wrong on offense did


Mar 24, 2017, 8:20 AM

Chad Kelly got kicked off the team at the spring game. Deshaun Watson and Cole Stoudt both were injured at different points during the season.

We had no running game until Wayne Gallman broke out toward the end of the season.

Still, if not for the late fumble against FSU and Watson's injury against GT, we would have made the playoffs.

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Re: Everything that could go wrong on offense did


Mar 24, 2017, 8:39 AM

If I remember correctly, Adam Choice was having some success and then went down with an injury, which opened the door for Gallman and he never looked back.

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Re: Everything that could go wrong on offense did


Mar 24, 2017, 2:27 PM

Choice gets another chance this year.

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Re: Everything that could go wrong on offense did


Mar 24, 2017, 2:27 PM [ in reply to Everything that could go wrong on offense did ]

Debatable, given that Lakip was very shaky in the FSU game and there's no guarantee he would have made the winning kick. Also, no guarantee the Tigers would have won the GT game with a healthy Watson. Tech was very good that year. But you may be correct.

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Re: Everything that could go wrong on offense did


Mar 24, 2017, 2:32 PM

That first drive with Watson vs GT was moving the ball with ease. It was a win in the bag until Stoudt threw to the wrong team multiple times.

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Re: Everything that could go wrong on offense did


Mar 24, 2017, 2:34 PM

I think we can all agree Clemson would have had a much better chance to win that game with DW4 at the helm.

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Top 5 S&P+ defenses over the last 3 years:


Mar 24, 2017, 8:22 AM

2016 Alabama 5.9
2016 Michigan 7.7
2015 Alabama 9.0
2014 Clemson 12.2
2014 Ole Miss 12.2

Top 5 FEI defenses over the last 3 years:

2016 Alabama 1.84
2014 Clemson 1.37
2015 Alabama 1.22
2016 Ohio State 1.22
2016 Washington 1.17

The two metrics don't agree on a lot of the rankings, but they both agree that the 2016 Bama defense was the best over the last few years by a pretty significant margin. That's still a completely different conversation than greatest of all time though. I'm sure there are others from different eras that that could make a legitimate claim.

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Re: Top 5 S&P+ defenses over the last 3 years:


Mar 24, 2017, 2:32 PM

Some of the Oklahoma defenses in the 70s were scary good. And how about the '81 Tigers? A Natty with a workmanlike, but not great offense. Even the late '80s and 1990 Tiger defense were tremendous. Some of the Nebraska defenses have been super too. FSU in the '90s? Could go on and on. Very hard to nail down one and say it was definitely the best of all time.

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Re: Top 5 S&P+ defenses over the last 3 years:


Mar 27, 2017, 4:59 PM [ in reply to Top 5 S&P+ defenses over the last 3 years: ]

Those SEC offense sucked tough

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Re: New Story: Bama defense best of all time? Clemson's 2014 group is in the conversation


Mar 24, 2017, 8:38 AM

Going back many years.. wasn't our 1990 defense #1 nationally? How do the numbers compare? I know the offensive style was different but just numbers vs numbers?

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Re: New Story: Bama defense best of all time? Clemson's 2014 group is in the conversation


Mar 24, 2017, 8:53 AM

HEYYYYYYYYYYY...that wasn't so long ago. I watched that team from the bleachers

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Re: New Story: Bama defense best of all time? Clemson's 2014 group is in the conversation


Mar 24, 2017, 8:53 AM [ in reply to Re: New Story: Bama defense best of all time? Clemson's 2014 group is in the conversation ]

HEYYYYYYYYYYY...that wasn't so long ago. I watched that team from the bleachers

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Re: New Story: Bama defense best of all time? Clemson's 2014 group is in the conversation


Mar 24, 2017, 8:54 AM [ in reply to Re: New Story: Bama defense best of all time? Clemson's 2014 group is in the conversation ]

And yes, 1990 defense was dominant that year. Offense, not so much

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Re: New Story: Bama defense best of all time? Clemson's 2014 group is in the conversation


Mar 24, 2017, 9:05 AM

In what world is .04 yards a fourth of a yard? Where they do that at?

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Re: New Story: Bama defense best of all time? Clemson's 2014 group is in the conversation


Mar 24, 2017, 9:58 AM

Comes out to 1.44 inches. Bama's D gave up 1.44" less per play than we did.

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Re: New Story: Bama defense best of all time? Clemson's 2014 group is in the conversation


Mar 24, 2017, 2:38 PM

Well, that's an argument buster right there! :)

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Historical Perspective...long repost


Mar 24, 2017, 9:59 AM

All this ridiculous yammering about Alabama being the greatest team ever, or at least the greatest defense ever, got me thinking about what teams might actually legitimately qualify for those titles. So, I set up some rules, did a little research, and have cranked out a prospective list of candidates.

Rules for best team ever:
1. You have to have won all your games. If you lost a game, you're just not a candidate for best ever. Period. Because you got beat. Maybe you can win the “Most Potential” or “Best on Paper” award, but you're not going to win best team ever award. Not with a loss.

2. You have to have played against upper echelon teams. I know this isn't fair to some very talented Div 1-AA or Div II, etc. teams, but to be the best you have to beat the best, and the overall skill quality level is just higher across the board in Div. I-A.

3. You have to have played at least 8 games, because less than that is barely a season.

4 You have to have played in relatively modern times. I'm saying WW2ish or later. There were some crazy good teams way back when. Yale went roughly 330-20 in their first 40 years of football. The 1902 Michigan team went 11-0 and outscored opponents 550-0. (How's that for defense, Alabama?) Gil Dobie won the first 67 games of his career in 11 seasons at the U of Washington and UNDk in the 19-teens. Correct. He didn't lose his first game until his 12th year as head coach. Even the 1938 Tennessee team went undefeated and unscored on in the regular season just prior to WW2. (Looking at you again, vaunted Alabama defense.) So all those were some pretty good teams. But I'm sticking to a time that at least includes the forward pass and mostly resembles modern football. I know the platoon system came in during the 40's and 50's, and scholarships are a recent governor on the talent pool, and there's still plenty of apples and oranges to go around, but there has to be a line somewhere.

Within these parameters, I've ranked the most crushingly dominant teams by the average size of their wins, minimum +30. These are your 20 candidates:

1944; Army; Blaik; 9-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 56-4; Avg. Margin of Victory: 52
1949 Pacific; Siemering; 11-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 52-6; Avg. Margin of Victory: 46
1956 Oklahoma; Wilkinson; 10-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 47-5; Avg. Margin of Victory: 42
1945 Army; Blaik; 9-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 46-5; Avg. Margin of Victory: 41
2013 FSU; Fisher; 14-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 52-12; Avg. Margin of Victory: 40
1945 Alabama; Thomas; 9-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 48-9; Avg. Margin of Victory: 39
1995 Nebraska; Osborne; 12-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 53-15; Avg. Margin of Victory: 38
1954 UCLA; Sanders; 9-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 41-4; Avg. Margin of Victory: 37
1974 Oklahoma; Switzer; 11-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 43-8; Avg. Margin of Victory: 35
1947 Michigan; Crisler; 10-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 39-5; Avg. Margin of Victory: 34
2005 Texas; Brown; 13-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 50-16; Avg. Margin of Victory: 34
1957 Arizona St; Devine; 10-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 40-7; Avg. Margin of Victory: 33
2001 Miami; Coker; 9-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 43-10; Avg. Margin of Victory: 33
1949 Army; Blaik; 9-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 39-7; Avg. Margin of Victory: 32
1991 Washington; James; 9-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 41-10; Avg. Margin of Victory: 31
1971 Nebraska; Devany; 13-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 39-8; Avg. Margin of Victory: 31
1959 Syracuse; Schwrtzwalder;11-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 38-7; Avg. Margin of Victory: 31
1997 Nebraska; Osborne; 13-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 47-16; Avg. Margin of Victory: 31
2010 TCU; Patterson; 13-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 40-10; Avg. Margin of Victory: 30
1955 Oklahoma; Wilkinson; 11-0-0; Avg. Game Score: 35-5; Avg. Margin of Victory: 30

Just missing the mark:
+29 are '69 Texas
+28 are '49 Oklahoma, '72 USC
+27 are '47 ND, '49 ND, '73 ND, '73 PSU
+26 are '79 Bama, '94 PSU
+25 are '52 MSU, 2004 USC, '38 Tenn, '61 Bama

Based on these criteria, Army '44 comes out on top as most dominant team ever. 2013 FSU, 1995 Nebraska, 1974 Oklahoma, 2005 Texas and 2001 Miami are the top 5 most recent “best team ever” candidates. A team needs to avg about 10 ppg on def to match the best of the last few decades.

2016 Bama's Avg. Score per Game was 38.8-11.8, good enough for the +27 category, but of course they lost. There's at least 40 more undefeated teams not even listed here to consider, before ranking 2016 Bama among the hundreds of 1-loss teams through the years. Even if had they gone undefeated they would have fallen in the low 30's of the all time dominant teams, and their defense is nowhere near the 4-5 Defensive Points per game of the great Army, Michigan, and Oklahoma teams of yore. Sorry ESPN, you've been exposed again. Your hype on the Tide just doesn't fit with the reality of the numbers.

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I'm sure 1944 Army needs more context.


Mar 24, 2017, 11:21 AM

That was still during WW2.

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Re: I'm sure 1944 Army needs more context.


Mar 24, 2017, 5:35 PM

Sure. They had every able bodied male between 18-20 in the country to choose from. So that might have helped. :) Interestingly, their star back was Heisman Trophy winner Doc Blanchard from lil ole Bishopville, SC (born in McColl, SC) Shame he went to West Point instead of Clemson. :(

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And they were legit


Mar 24, 2017, 5:43 PM [ in reply to I'm sure 1944 Army needs more context. ]

Set aside spotting every team they played 7 touchdowns and a FG before the ball was even placed. They demolished powerhouse #5 Notre Dame that year 59-0, and cruised over #2 Navy 23-7. So while they had legit recruiting advantages, they produced with what they had. (Unlike say, Georgia. Bwhahahaha)

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Wait a goldarned minute here Babba-louie!


Mar 24, 2017, 11:16 AM

Are you telling me that our 1981 defense wasn't listed? William Perry, Jeff Bryant, Jeff Davis, Dan Benish, Andy Headen, Johnny Rembert, Terry Kinard, William Devane, Hollis Hall, and Danny Triplett all say hello!

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Re: Wait a goldarned minute here Babba-louie!


Mar 24, 2017, 11:37 AM

How close to less than 10 ppg allowed were we that year?

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1981 gave up 8.75 ppg.....


Mar 24, 2017, 11:40 AM

24 of the 105 were by Wake forest in the 82-24 win.

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#1 with our 3 and Stoudt offense...even more impressive***


Mar 24, 2017, 12:01 PM



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August can't come soon enough***


Mar 24, 2017, 12:04 PM



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Re: August can't come soon enough***


Mar 24, 2017, 2:37 PM

It will be fun reading the football preview magazines! Muxh more objective than the ESECPN nerds and all the other tv talking heads.

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Maybe if you throw out the Season Opener when UGA


Mar 24, 2017, 12:36 PM

rushed for over 300 yards and 45 points

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Re: New Story: Bama defense best of all time? Clemson's 2014 group is in the conversation


Mar 24, 2017, 12:56 PM

the 1990 defense gave up about 220 yards per game and in 4 of the games, the defense outscore the offense they were playing

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Re: New Story: Bama defense best of all time? Clemson's 2014 group is in the conversation


Mar 24, 2017, 2:35 PM

Thanks

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And watching what you write about the story they write


Mar 24, 2017, 4:44 PM

fun too

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2017 D, if it can find a leader like Boulware could be BEST


Mar 24, 2017, 5:07 PM

OF ALL TIME! MORE OVERALL TALENT THAN ANY TIGER TEAMS YET!

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You have to factor in that 'bama plays in the


Mar 24, 2017, 5:42 PM

SEC, where all the teams seem to be offensively challenged, regardless of the opponent.

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Most Impressive Defensive Stat I have ever seen


Mar 24, 2017, 6:05 PM

No fan of the Vols, but Gen Bob Neyland (Neyland Stadium) won 173 games and lost 31 in his career. That's impressive. But of the 173 games he won, 100 were shutouts. That's insane. Let that sink in. 6 out of every 10 wins over his career was a shutout. That's called defense, folks. You can get a stadium named after you for that.

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3 yds. and a cloud of dust, most games were low scoring -


Mar 24, 2017, 9:20 PM

like soccer today!

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That's not even close to remotely being true...Look it up


Mar 27, 2017, 3:29 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Tennessee_Volunteers_football_team
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_Tennessee_Volunteers_football_team
Pick any year, any team, any where you like.
Good teams score. A lot. Bad ones don't.

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How's this for one of them ole timey, low scoring teams?


Mar 27, 2017, 3:44 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1902_Michigan_Wolverines_football_team

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Greatest team of all time: 1899 Sewanee Tigers


Mar 27, 2017, 3:55 PM

In the span of 6 weeks the Sewanee Tigers went 12-0, consensus national champions in the SoCon conference. They played against teams like UGA, Ga Tech, Auburn, UNC, TAMU, Texas, Tennessee, etc.
Every game they played was an away game and the only team that scored on them was Auburn with 10 points.

Named "The Greatest" college football team ever by ESPN in 1999 and the College Football Hall of Fame.



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That is awesome!***


Mar 27, 2017, 4:01 PM



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Re: That is awesome!***


Mar 27, 2017, 4:28 PM

The only reason Auburn scored was due to their coach being John Heisman.

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Not to be confused with the 1899 Cleveland Spiders


Mar 27, 2017, 4:08 PM [ in reply to Greatest team of all time: 1899 Sewanee Tigers ]

Due to lackluster ticket sales, other NL teams refused to travel to Cleveland's League Park, as their cut of the ticket revenue didn't cover their travel and hotel expenses.

As a result, the Spiders only played 26 more home games for the rest of the season, including only eight after July 1. In so doing, they set a number of negative records, including one, 101 road losses, that is unbreakable under MLB's current schedule.

Sportswriters of the day began referring to the team as the "Exiles" and "Wanderers." Their final record for the season was 20–134 for a winning percentage of .130, the worst in baseball history.

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