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Rock Defender [53]
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NBC News already crying about the committee
Jun 18, 2022, 9:42 AM
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All-TigerNet [13024]
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Re: NBC News already crying about the committee
Jun 18, 2022, 9:46 AM
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It's the economy, stupids!!
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110%er [5648]
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Re: NBC News already crying about the committee
Jun 18, 2022, 10:01 AM
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The fact that they even wrote the article means the leftists do not get it.
They say this
Republican voters in Nevada were aware Tuesday that the Jan. 6 committee was building a public case that Donald Trump knew the election wasn’t stolen.
but who tf cares if he knew or not? It is irrelevant to me.
I know how the election was won by Biden and don't give a chit what the stupid democrats opinion is about what Trump thought when. It's all opinion and conjecture...it can never be proven or disproven.
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110%er [7190]
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I see you're sticking to this talking point
Jun 18, 2022, 12:03 PM
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and just totally ignoring the whole point of all the lies which was to overturn an election.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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Who is disputing that Trump and his crew were trying to
Jun 18, 2022, 12:23 PM
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block or overturn the election?
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Who is disputing that Trump and his crew were trying to
Jun 18, 2022, 12:31 PM
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Their arguments are all legal arguments, not political ones. It's pretty obvious they're following the playbook and advice of a prosecutor...and it doesn't always make for the sexiest or splashiest TV.
The first thing they're doing is establishing criminal intent. They've spent much of the first few sessions just hammering away at the fact that not only did Trump lose, he was told by everybody in his administration that he lost and disregarded it anyway...and therefore cannot reasonably use the argument that "he just believed he won." He didn't believe he won, or if he did, he was just so blockheaded it defies reason. Which isn't a legal defense. There is no way he could have reasonably not known he lost...and yet he proceeded to try to overturn the election anyway.
Right from the get-go, the Committee has already established criminal intent. And that's very, very big...and puts Trump in immense legal peril. Everything from here on out in any kind of courtroom is going to be about Trump and his team trying to get out of that legal headlock the Committee's already put on them.
Anything he did after that they can establish, he and his crew are on the hook for. Which John Eastman seems to be very aware of. Not only did White House attorney Eric Herschman tell him to "get a good effing lawyer"...he then turned around and asked Rudy for a pardon. What he actually seems to have accomplished was hand the Committee a noose to hang him with. He knew he'd done wrong.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Who is disputing that Trump and his crew were trying to
Jun 18, 2022, 12:36 PM
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Who is disputing that Trump and his crew were trying to
Jun 18, 2022, 12:49 PM
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He's never been out of legal peril with Deutsche Bank or SDNY.
The Manhattan thing (which is separate from the SDNY thing, which is a civil case Trump is going to lose because he and his kids are just taking the Fifth and likely a big stiff financial hit over because they don't want to say anything that could then be used in the Manhattan criminal case) largely hinges on Alan Weisselberg, who is facing probably 10-15 years (though I suspect he'll get good lawyers and get that at least halved) for tax fraud charges in New York. They have Weisselberg cold on those charges, BTW. He even drew them a freaking diagram. They have both sets of his books, thanks to his daughter-in-law Jenny, who gleefully sang like a canary.
https://www.justsecurity.org/77331/the-weisselberg-indictment-is-not-a-fringe-benefits-case/
The question then becomes: will the 75-year-old Weisselberg be willing to do a substantial portion (and maybe the rest of his life) in jail rather than roll on Trump? So far he hasn't budged...and I suppose it's possible he may not. The Manhattan DA's office were obviously staking their investigation of Trump on compelling Weisselberg's cooperation. And it appears the Manhattan grand jury case against Trump, anyhow, is stalled until they can get that critical inside witness they thus far have not gotten.
If Weisselberg decides to do a deal, though, Manhattan would likely charge Trump tomorrow. That is called "immense legal peril."
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Legend [19888]
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: The "committee" hasn't established Anything
Jun 18, 2022, 1:07 PM
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Are you saying his AG Bill Barr, his own data analytics guy, and his own daughter Ivanka, and pretty much everybody inside his own administration didn't tell Trump he lost? Because they one and all testified they did.
Which means he knew. And tried to overturn anyhow. Which is the very definition of "criminal intent."
That isn't a "Committee talking point", it's just the law.
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Legend [19888]
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Re: The "committee" hasn't established Anything
Jun 18, 2022, 1:18 PM
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I KNOW...therefore I AM.....i think?
Right?...well, maybe.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: The "committee" hasn't established Anything
Jun 18, 2022, 1:18 PM
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Wut?
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Legend [19888]
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: "just the law"
Jun 18, 2022, 1:30 PM
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"LOL" all you want. Election interference is actually illegal. Are you arguing that it isn't?
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110%er [5648]
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Re: "just the law"
Jun 18, 2022, 1:35 PM
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Fine. If it is illegal, get the evidence, press charges, get the judgment and move on.
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All-In [43994]
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It seems that they do have the evidence, hence the committee hearings.***
Jun 19, 2022, 2:37 PM
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CU Medallion [58376]
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I told my brother that there IS a God.
Jun 18, 2022, 1:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: Who is disputing that Trump and his crew were trying to ] |
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Our Mom and Dad told him. A lot of friends and family told him, people he loved and trusted. We gave him all kinds of evidence. So, he knew good and well that there is a God. Alas, some other people told him there is no God, and he chose to believe them, and now he is an atheist.
It is very, VERY possible that Donald Trump did not believe he lost the election, and that instead the election was rigged and stolen. You can't prove or demonstrate otherwise. It's a possibility that you simply refuse to accept, because it doesn't fit your narrative. Barr himself, who is basically testifying for the prosecution, clearly believed that Trump was delusional, and "detached from reality". It is not a leap at all to think that Trump truly believed (and still believes) that the election was rigged. That doesn't make what he did right or acceptable, and there is no defending it in my mind, but the implications are very different than if he was knowingly trying to seize power, simply for the sake of power, by knowingly circumventing a legitimate election.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: I told my brother that there IS a God.
Jun 18, 2022, 1:47 PM
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Actually from a criminal point of view that is apparently not true.
What they've basically established is that Trump knew, or could not have reasonably not known, that he lost. If he was somehow knotheaded enough to convince himself he'd won anyhow, it no longer matters...being a knothead isn't a legal defense. Otherwise every mafia don in the world would just stand in front of a jury, play dumb, and go "I didn't know telling somebody to whack a guy meant they'd actually kill him."
Legally, they appear to have him on intent, period. I mentioned that Manhattan case, where Trump is accused of massively inflating the value of his properties to get loans, and then deflating them when it came time to pay taxes. They know he did that - I mean, it's all over records they have - but what they don't have there is intent because they don't have any corroboration that it was Trump himself who ordered it, or if it was Weisselberg or somebody else in the company, or even that he knew much about it. Which is why they needed the insider's corroboration the Manhattan DA's office still don't appear to have to move forwards there.
That's not the case here. They've got all sorts of testimony. From everybody. Trump knew, and even if he didn't...well, that's on him. Which would seem to put him squarely in the soup.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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In your mind, and in the minds of this partisan hit crew,
Jun 18, 2022, 3:04 PM
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I'm sure all of that is true. They could accuse Trump of anything, and ram it through, because there is nobody there to stop them. No voice of reason, no opposing voice on this railroad. They could throw in allegations of child rape and animal sacrifice, and there would be no one on this committee to challenge it. They have a mission, and it will proceed unimpeded. They will conclude exactly what they set out to conclude, no doubt. Unfortunately, while the Dems have a celebratory circle jerk when the committee finishes its business, the American people will be even more bitterly divided, and our republic in even more turmoil.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: In your mind, and in the minds of this partisan hit crew,
Jun 18, 2022, 4:19 PM
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The thing is, these are Trump's own staffers saying all this.
That makes it really hard to say they're making things up out of whole cloth. They're using Trump's own people to make their case.
I mean, these are not Dem operatives we're talking about here. We're talking about some of the most vehement Trump supporters there were and are...including Ivanka Trump. Eric Herschman was the guy who defended Trump in his first impeachment trial! Bill Barr is anything but a Dem stooge.
One thing I will agree that could complicate a trial and a conviction, though, is the jury. You get even one vehement pro-Trump guy on it and that's potentially a hung jury right there.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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You see dramatic, stop the presses, fall over backwards out
Jun 18, 2022, 5:53 PM
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of your chair, damning, earth shaking, nail in the coffin testimony. I see people telling us what we already knew. Strange that not a single person can testify to any conversation in which Trump mentioned his acknowledgment of having legitimately lost the election. No "wonder what we got wrong?" or "I can't believe we lost", or "now that we've lost...". Nothing to indicate that at any point Trump ever accepted the loss as legitimate. Instead, they're totally content "connecting dots" because like I say, it doesn't matter, this is all a show and the conclusion is predetermined.
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110%er [7086]
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Nothing illegal about SAYING an election is illegitimate
Jun 18, 2022, 8:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: Who is disputing that Trump and his crew were trying to ] |
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C'mon kiddies ... this is silly string re: DJT and "election interference" ... but don't worry, I'm here to help.
There is nothing illegal for anyone (including Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton) to express an opinion that an election was illegitimate.
Trump or Hillary could say that Elvis Presley was the duly elected president, but that does not constitute criminal conduct.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Did Trump INTERFERE with an election? His requests to Brian Kemp / Doug Ducey / etc. to conduct a recount does not constitute interference in an election, no more than either Stacey Abrams or Al Gore's disputing their electoral losses constitute "election interference."
JFK with Richard Daley, on the other hand, was un-prosecuted election fraud ... aka, election interference.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As far as Federal prosecutors going after DJT, this is all part of the illegal prosecutorial behavior that became fully institutionalized during the Obama administration.
In the finest tradition of Joseph Stalin (who infamously said [paraphrased] 'show me the man and I'll show you the crime'), when the US prosecutors go after someone, they are essentially exempt from criminal punishment if they engage in illegal tactics when prosecuting someone. They use illegal tactics (esp. concocting false evidence) and deny the defense access to their 'evidence' despite Brady laws. (Brady laws are the criminal trial version of Discovery.)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Reference: The profoundly illegal conduct of Kathryn Ruemmler and Andrew Weissman (Federal Prosecutors) in the case of US vs. four separate Merrill Lynch employees (the non crimes of the ML employees who were unlucky enough to had been working with Enron ... when Enron was doing one of ENRON's illegal activities)>
(Hint: The ML employees were all illegally prosecuted, spent time in jail, and were eventually exonerated after it was found the prosecution concocted the evidence.)
These bums got promoted to the highest levels of the legal profession outside of judgeships:
K.Ruemmler became the Obama White House chief counsel; A.Weissman became general counsel for the FBI.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
LESSON: Just because BS is repeated widely by 'media experts' and numerous politicians does not provide the slightest legitimacy to the BS.
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110%er [5648]
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Re: I see you're sticking to this talking point
Jun 18, 2022, 1:34 PM
[ in reply to I see you're sticking to this talking point ] |
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Which lies - the ones about voting fraud in various states?
Well, let me just say this...if you think the final word has been said about what happened in 2020 then you need to recall the Russian Hoax that went on for YEARS with all of you singing the same tune. YOU WERE ALL WRONG.
You need to recall how EVERYONE ON THE LEFT KNEW HB's laptop was Russian disinformation. I'm sure you thought it too. YOU WERE ALL WRONG.
Now you think Trump is lying with some grand conspiratorial plan to overturn the election. The same type of conspiracy theory you all laugh about every day when pubs talk about them.
Trump believes what he believes. He knows more than anyone on this board about the chit that took place and knows better than anyone in the country what the democrats did to him while he was in office. He has his opinion and you have yours.
Maybe if the democrats had not tried to ruin his entire administration with the russian hoax, ukraine phone call hoax, etc. he might not distrust everything the democrats have been involved in.
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Orange Blooded [4974]
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Re: I see you're sticking to this talking point
Jun 19, 2022, 1:26 PM
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Let's not forget the DNC rigged ITS OWN PRIMARY a against Barry the freeloader Sanders.
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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The liberal mass media gets 4 AM narratives
Jun 18, 2022, 10:53 AM
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sent out to all of them in the morning?
They seem like intellectually curious and fair minded people. Surprising that they would be Trump supporters. I guess the January 6th committee has been unsuccessful to this point in informing anyone's knowledge of events.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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Wow - shocker.
Jun 18, 2022, 11:07 AM
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Among this sampling of Republicans, including in Washoe, the swingiest county in one of the nation’s swingiest states, it has hardened partisan views, spawned more conspiracies or deepened fealty toward Trump.
I posted the other day: These hearings will change very few minds, if any. In fact, it will only make the divide worse and strengthen opinions on both "sides", no matter what happens to Trump as a result of it all. It won't make a single Pub vote Dem. Nobody out there voted for Trump last time around and will think after this hearing, "You know, Trump is a lot worse than I thought, these Dems are onto something!"
https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-forum/message/if-dems-are-so-terrified-of-trump-then-they-need-to-put-30832037#30832037
People see right through this very transparent political theater, and have from the start. Dems didn't even try to mask the fact that this was a blatant hit job - they don't care. They just want to have their moment, to use their power to skewer the bad orange man who spent 4 years skewering them. Lucky for them they have the media machine to carry out the mission.
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Legend [19888]
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What committee?
Jun 18, 2022, 11:50 AM
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I heard they had a parade of idiots on tv but who wants to watch a bunch of lazy dems coddling each other....really!
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110%er [7190]
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We get it, y'all would vote for him no matter what crimes he commits
Jun 18, 2022, 11:58 AM
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More importantly, "The committee’s members have acknowledged they’re unlikely to move many Trump loyalists, and instead have set lower goals, like trying to convince enough moderates to sign on to overhauling the Electoral Count Act to remove loopholes. Their loftier goals — like convincing the Department of Justice to indict Trump — don’t require voter support."
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: We get it, y'all would vote for him no matter what crimes he commits
Jun 18, 2022, 12:01 PM
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110%er [7190]
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Lol, they asked for an independent commission
Jun 18, 2022, 12:04 PM
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But pubs said no.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Lol, they asked for an independent commission
Jun 18, 2022, 12:06 PM
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All-In [34100]
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Re: Lol, they asked for an independent commission
Jun 18, 2022, 12:56 PM
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Heck, I was tired of it after Benghazi.
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Legend [19888]
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110%er [7190]
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What about her emails?***
Jun 18, 2022, 12:04 PM
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CU Medallion [58376]
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All-TigerNet [10867]
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literally only sh**libs care***
Jun 18, 2022, 12:02 PM
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: NBC News already crying about the committee
Jun 18, 2022, 12:11 PM
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I think a lot of folks are missing the point about the hearings.
It really isn't about changing minds. I don't know if that's really possible at this point. Opinions are largely baked in at this point though events will shape those opinions over time.
What it's about is establishing an inarguable public record...and they are using the testimony of Trump's own administration to establish that record. It's extremely effective.
Their audience really isn't the American people, at this point. Their audience is the DOJ and the media. Basically the Committee's pretty much putting this all on the table, and then, at that point, the onus switches to the DOJ with all evidence laid bare (regardless of how many eyeballs may or may not be on TV screen), and going: "so what are you going to do about it?"
Everything the Committee is doing is about establishing an inarguable case for criminal conduct. Why do you think they spent time focusing on the fund-raising grift after 1/6 that really had nothing to do with it?
They're handing the DOJ a laundry list of prosecutable offenses and what appears to be largely indisputable evidence for all of it. And the danger isn't going to come at the polls, it's going to come in a real courtroom this time.
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Legend [19888]
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Are they gonna do Bill & Hillary next?
Jun 18, 2022, 12:15 PM
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Then Obama & Joebama???
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-In [34100]
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Re: NBC News already crying about the committee
Jun 18, 2022, 12:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: NBC News already crying about the committee ] |
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What it's about is establishing an inarguable public record...and they are using the testimony of Trump's own administration to establish that record. It's extremely effective.
It's also about history. As years go on, this becomes a historical record for future generations to learn from. And like all histories, it's written by the winners. (With a lot of help from Trump's former associates.)
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: NBC News already crying about the committee
Jun 18, 2022, 1:12 PM
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As a lawyer do you think he's got any chance of avoiding charges? Most of the ones I've talked to are pretty universal in their opinion he's well and truly hosed this time. They said the Committee's already established purposeful intent in regards to election interference and at least knowing intent in regards to his culpability in the riot, and both are prosecutable. They also said the Committee's throwing in the fundraising-off-the-Big-Lie afterward because they know it's prosecutable too, and hey, let's throw the kitchen sink at him.
Do you think it's already that bad? They think no way he skates, not with all the testimony from inside his administration already...and that's even before it went criminal.
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All-In [34100]
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Re: NBC News already crying about the committee
Jun 18, 2022, 1:21 PM
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As a lawyer I know that the DOJ is only going to bring charges if it looks like an airtight case. The question of whether it looks airtight cannot be answered without extensive legal research into the elements of the potential crimes and how they have been treated in past case law in whatever jurisdiction they would bring the action. Which is a long way of saying that I can't possibly predict whether they'll bring charges.
What I've got, instead, is a gut feeling, and it tells me that Trump's not getting charged with anything. Of course, as the previous paragraph makes clear, I could easily be wrong.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: NBC News already crying about the committee
Jun 18, 2022, 2:02 PM
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It'll be interesting...but actually, supposedly there's several guns aimed at him poised to go off. Fani Willis down in Georgia thinks she's got a strong case and is supposedly about to hit go. I know Laurence Tribe a week ago thought Trump was going to get hit there...and that it'll stick. He's rarely that definitive about anything. Dude qualifies pretty much every word that comes out of his mouth.
https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1530118706373722113
Merrick Garland has been a straight wuss thus far, but to me this Committee is aimed right at him as much as anybody. I mean, when the Committeee's basically done his job for him, how can he wimp out when it's pretty much established what Trump did?
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All-In [34100]
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Re: NBC News already crying about the committee
Jun 18, 2022, 2:26 PM
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I hear you. I follow Tribe on Twitter (he's one of the most famous living constitutional scholars), and I've been wondering how much to trust him on some of those tweets. This will be a test for his reliability going forward.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-TigerNet [13024]
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Re: NBC News already crying about the committee
Jun 18, 2022, 3:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: NBC News already crying about the committee ] |
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“What it's about is establishing an inarguable public record”
Lol, ###. It’s about one party using their powers to oppress their challengers. The same thing Obama did with his DOJ and IRS. If you think it’s anything more, you’re a fool.
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All-TigerNet [10805]
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Re: NBC News already crying about the committee
Jun 19, 2022, 9:03 AM
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As long as the Dem Congress is obsessed with an ex-president and not dealing with the Dem government induced social and economic crisis, the plan is working for the congressional overhaul.
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50
