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Zealot [823]
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Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 3:26 PM
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Because things are boring this time of year, I thought I would bring this topic up. I'm interested in your opinions, experiences and insights - how do you feel about travel baseball?
For most parents who have a son involved in baseball, practices have already begun or they are about to (whether it is through a rec league or travel team.) This seems to be a very "hot" topic in my area - whether to let your child play/try-out for a travel team or not to. From my experience, I have seen teams who are playing every weekend and those who may play every two to three weekends. I believe there needs to be obviously a healthy balance, but had thought of these questions:
What age is too young to start?
Do you feel that in your area the increasing number of travel teams is hurting the recreational leagues?
Is playing high school ball "enough" these days if you are interested in playing at a collegiate level?
How many high school team rosters have kids that are playing high school ball and travel ball?
Are their currently any players on Clemson's roster that did not play on a travel team?
I would really love to know the answer to the last question....if anybody knows.
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CU Medallion [64517]
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My daughters play travel volleyball.....
Feb 19, 2015, 3:38 PM
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which, as I understand it, is substantially similar to travel baseball, soccer, and softball in that the higher level players/teams typically do more traveling, playing and practicing while the teams that tend to be geared more toward the mid-level players travel, practice and play much less. We've traveled as far South as Orlando, New Orleans, and Dallas and as far North as Washington, DC and Philadelphia.
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All-In [27361]
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Travel ball
Feb 19, 2015, 3:56 PM
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has its good points and also some bad ones! If you allow your son (daughter( to be involved with a travel team be ready to spend every weekend on the road. It is a great exposure for youngsters who get to play with other good players. Great competition. Usually good coaching. Every game is a big game against good competition. My one complaint is it is so easy for a young athlete to get 'burnt out' playing and travelling this much. My grandson plays travel basketball and baseball and he is ALWAYS going away to play. I can see him at some point in time, losing interest in all this competition. He is only eleven.I really think travel ball is better for kids as they become a little older and more physically developed. At least it keep him away from the video games a little bit!!!
That is something that I wish had never been developed. If a youngster has aspirations of being an advanced athlete, then he can't get to much playing time ..... but you have got to really LOVE the game.
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CU Medallion [64517]
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My youngest has been playing Club since she was twelve...
Feb 19, 2015, 4:06 PM
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and she's now 17.
During travel/Club season (tryouts and practic start right after high school season ends in November and runs until late June), we generally play somewhere about every other weekend from January until May. There is just one tournament in June and that is the AAU National Championships in Orlando.
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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My son enjoyed playing baseball, football, & basketball in
Feb 19, 2015, 4:30 PM
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season. When he reached high school, he played football & and baseball and church league basketball.
He had an enjoyable experience and one state baseball Class 4 championship. I say let them enjoy them all.......JMHO
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CU Medallion [64517]
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As I said below....
Feb 19, 2015, 4:35 PM
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recreational type sports have definitely changed since I was a kid.
When I was growing-up, we played football in the fall, basketball in the winter, baseball in the spring to mid summer, and soccer in late summer. We even managed to mix-in a little church basketball and softball.
Now-a-days, the coaches want the kids to specialize in one sport and pretty much play/work at it year around.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: My son enjoyed playing baseball, football, & basketball in
Feb 19, 2015, 4:36 PM
[ in reply to My son enjoyed playing baseball, football, & basketball in ] |
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DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER. ONLY EXCEPTION IS IF YOUR KID IS TRULY ELITE IN A SPORT AND LOVES IT THEN LET HIM DO THE ONE SPORT IF HE WANTS WHEN HE IS A JUNIOR IN HIGH SCHOOL.
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CU Medallion [64517]
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My youngest daughter....
Feb 19, 2015, 4:44 PM
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has been playing Club/travel volleyball for six years and I would consider her a very high level to an elite level player. She has been contacted and recruited by a number of schools throughout the state. However, she is adamant about wanting to attend Clemson but she's not quite good enough to play at the D1 level.
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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Then send her to Clemson***
Feb 19, 2015, 8:42 PM
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110%er [8866]
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Re: My youngest daughter....
Feb 20, 2015, 1:43 AM
[ in reply to My youngest daughter.... ] |
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Couldn't she play as a walk on
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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MVP [518]
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Re: My youngest has been playing Club since she was twelve...
Feb 19, 2015, 10:55 PM
[ in reply to My youngest has been playing Club since she was twelve... ] |
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My older daughter (age 12) is in her second year of club volleyball. She's had a blast, and loves the challenge of playing in the big tournaments (Big South, AAU). Great sport, and lots of fun for us as parents. For us, academics are first and foremost, and volleyball serves as an augmenting pro-social activity (learning through teamwork) that contributes to healthy development. We aren't in this with any long term expectations, and we marvel/puzzle at the parents that are hyper focused on volleyball as a ticket to scholarship money. The odds are far better for academic scholarships, and academic success has much longer term yield in life. We're sure having fun with volleyball while it lasts, though! Maybe I'll see you down at AAU in Orlando this year (among the tens of thousands!). I'll, of course, be wearing something Clemson related.
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Recruit [81]
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Re: My daughters play travel volleyball.....
Feb 19, 2015, 4:03 PM
[ in reply to My daughters play travel volleyball..... ] |
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girls travel volleyball makes baseball look like kids play....expensive and time consuming. If your kid is a great athlete, he will get found in HS but if he wants to be drafted, pony up the bucks for travel baseball.
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CU Medallion [64517]
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It's not too expensive but definitely very time consuming.***
Feb 19, 2015, 4:08 PM
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Fan [64]
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Re: My daughters play travel volleyball.....
Feb 19, 2015, 4:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: My daughters play travel volleyball..... ] |
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Amen to that. As you stated if they are good enough they will be found in high school and not on some travel team where the coaches are making money off of mom and dad. Choice is yours. Rather have my son or daughter home and not running all over the east coach. IMHO
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CU Medallion [64517]
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Frankly.....
Feb 20, 2015, 8:56 AM
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you generally see alot more college recruiters at Club/travel volleyball tournaments than you ever do at a high school game; especially at the really large AAU events. Coaches and recruiters can see dozens and dozens of players over the course of one weekend all in one place. All of the really good high school volleyball players play at the Club level because the competition at the Club level is better (much better actually) than at the high school level.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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There's travel ball and then there is tournament ball
Feb 19, 2015, 3:48 PM
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big difference. Technically "travel" is anything that isn't associated with a rec department where they play teams outside of their own park. There are many versions of "travel" from those that try to play in as many qualifying, regional and national tournaments etc. Those teams will play at least 60-70 games a year all the way up to 100. Get ready to spend a ton of money and have no life other than that. Oh and make sure you don't have any other kids that want to do anything. Tournament ball is a full family sacrifice.
Then there are travel "leagues" with local teams that will play a regular season of some set number of games (usually less than 20) and then the team will pick up random tournaments here and there. My son is 9 and going into his first year of kid pitch. We are doing "travel" but it is all local. They will play 12-15 regular season games, an end of the year league tournament and about 4 or 5 other tournaments. We will play in the 35 game range.
It really depends on the kid. I was perfectly fine with my son staying in rec ball, but the competition would have been a bit too low for him. Plus my son wanted to pitch and I certainly wasn't going to let some yahoo teach him that (I would qualify as a yahoo at this level). But I certainly wasn't going to let him play 50+ games a year at this age.
My rule of thumb on sports is that the season has to stop before they get tired of it. And there has to be enough of a layoff for them to miss it.
So to your questions
1) Yes. In Atlanta, rec ball is basically dead after coach pitch. The travel/club teams have taken all of the above average talent out of it.
2) Probably not. But how many kids are REALLY going to be college material anyway. The goal at a young age isn't get them to college. The goal is really to keep them interested and playing at a level that they can play high school. Who knows, in a few years, schools might not even recruit high school and just go to the travel tournaments and high school baseball is dead. I have a friend who has put his 10yo son in these huge and expensive East Cobb travel teams on the hope that he can play in college. I told him that what he's spent on the leagues could have paid for tuition and at 10 they haven't even discovered girls yet. He might drop a baseball for a b00bie!
3) Just from our area, its about half. Some will play in some summer leagues/tournament and some will just play high school. 0 at the same time though.
4) I doubt it.
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All-In [25859]
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Re: There's travel ball and then there is tournament ball
Feb 19, 2015, 3:58 PM
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I only know of 2 instances of kids involved in travel baseball in my area. Both kids got burned out and no longer play at all.
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110%er [7913]
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Agreed...don't live far from that East Cobb baseball area
Feb 19, 2015, 4:04 PM
[ in reply to There's travel ball and then there is tournament ball ] |
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and it's amazing what we're turning kids into....first of all there is a focus on specialization...coaches want the kids to focus only on one sport....and then it's almost cult like focus needed in order to be a participant the league. We have friends who've chosen that route and we wish them the best. We haven't and don't regret it. We need and our son needs balance in his life. Simply our choice....we needed our son and our family's life to not revolve around a sport or his activities. He participates in basketball and golf. Very good player in both but we wanted to maintain his childhood as much as possible. We were concerned seeing others kids entire life wrapped up in activities with little to no down time. Again this is the choice we made with our son....may not be the right route for everyone.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Sounds like us
Feb 19, 2015, 4:22 PM
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Mine has done rec and all-stars for the last 3 years out of a park in Cherokee. Last year they played 51 games (they played deep into some all-star tournaments), looking back that was too many. But you get wrapped up in it at the time. They physically can't do that with kid pitch but yet many parents try. I wanted to contain it from the beginning. We will actually play a month or 2 shorter this year. But even though I thought the rec+all star season was too long, on the ride home from the state tournament he asked me "when are Jr. Chief tryouts." So obviously he liked it and wanted to keep going.
I'm all about them playing multiple sports. He doesn't play football yet because baseball ran so long before. He needed time off to get off to good starts in school. But we play rec basketball and now "travel" baseball. Next year he wants to step up a bit in the basketball level so we will probably do something out of one of the local gyms next year. They force specialization though because "competitive" basketball is a spring sport. So they essentially force 10 year olds to pick which one they like and have to grow up in.
I've got another that is just 4 so I'm sure I'll have to go through all of this again.
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Orange Blooded [3821]
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Not true. Rec ball via the Select Program is alive & well
Feb 20, 2015, 9:12 AM
[ in reply to Agreed...don't live far from that East Cobb baseball area ] |
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in Roswell, Alpharetta & Ocee.
The Select is essentially the 44 best kids in each Rec league who then play each other in a separate league. Its done at 9-10 & 11-12. Of course you have all-stars each summer as well. You are correct by age 12 most of the good talent is playing travel.
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Commissioner [912]
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Re: Agreed...don't live far from that East Cobb baseball area
Feb 20, 2015, 6:53 PM
[ in reply to Agreed...don't live far from that East Cobb baseball area ] |
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Data supports not specialing until college. Those coaches who say otherwise are wrong. There is a wealth of literature on not specializing. Rest certain muscles while playing one sport and developing others. Good post
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 4:10 PM
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Travel Baseball is stupid and is nothing more than a #### waving contest for the coaches.
Focusing on one sport as a kid is just dumb.
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Someone didn't get picked for the team they tried out for...***
Feb 19, 2015, 4:12 PM
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Someone didn't get picked for the team they tried out for...***
Feb 19, 2015, 4:15 PM
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Played Rec ball and grew up in a time/area when this idiotic travel ball #### didnt exist. I do see it with my sister chasing my nephew all over the state. He is 9 years old and playing this many games a year it is insane and not healthy.
For me it was play baseball when that ended play basketball when that ended play soccer when that ended play football rinse and repeat.
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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I have family that plays travel baseball and softball.
Feb 19, 2015, 4:19 PM
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The boys played 3 sports throughout the year, not just baseball.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: I have family that plays travel baseball and softball.
Feb 19, 2015, 4:22 PM
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The travel ball teams I am referring to are the ones that frown upon a kid playing anything else and want him to be 100% baseball and if he does those other things he might lose his spot. The team my Nephew used to play for was like that and my sister and brother in law finally had enough and pulled him out of that group and into antoher one that actually lets the kids have a life.
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Orange Blooded [3821]
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Then don't blame travel ball blame that one program
Feb 20, 2015, 9:34 AM
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My boys play 3 sports including travel baseball. The sad thing is by about 12-13 most kids are focused on one sport these days whether its baseball, football, lacrosse or basketball.
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Oculus Spirit [96772]
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Recently saw a news segment where a trainer was saying that
Feb 19, 2015, 4:15 PM
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it is not good for kids to play the same sport all year. They need more of a variety, or it can lead to injuries and -- as some have mentioned -- burnout.
I'm also dead set against our family life revolving around our kids' sporting events.
But that's just me.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Recently saw a news segment where a trainer was saying that
Feb 19, 2015, 4:17 PM
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Saw the same thing. The kids arms are never given an off season.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Dr Andrews wrote a whole book on it
Feb 19, 2015, 4:25 PM
[ in reply to Recently saw a news segment where a trainer was saying that ] |
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I think it was called something like The Monday After. It was specific for every sport. Basically specialization at any sport is bad for kids.
Cheerleading had one of the highest per capita injury rates. Football was the highest overall. Soccer was big in concussions.
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Legend [19352]
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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All sports over time have risks of repetitive injuries
Feb 19, 2015, 5:13 PM
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Competitive basketball player have a higher risk of lower back and lower leg injuries. Boys more back, girls more knee/ankle
Soccer with the cumulative effect of minor head injuries.
Tennis has a huge problem with elbow and wrist. Some data is starting to show a link in girls between tennis and early carpal tunel. I get that from wimmins tennis for a different reason.
Baseball has elbow and shoulder problems. At one point the fastest growing age cohort getting Tommy John was 15-20. I bet thats 12/13-17/18 now.
Bottom line is too much of any sport is bad. Parental expectation is the biggest driver. Parents can say no to funding the clubs or pay for that entry fee. If your kid is good enough a few missed games wont matter. If they arent then no amount of play is going to make the difference. Once they hit 13/14/15 let them decide. Travel sport is a better vice than others they can get into.
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All-In [30593]
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I don't coach baseball... but I do coach... and I will not
Feb 19, 2015, 4:28 PM
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let my kids start playing ball, especially baseball, until they are older. I've seen too much and I've known too many parents who build their lives around baseball tournaments every weekend.
It also robs a lot of high schools of good athletes who should be playing more than one sport. That is becoming more and more common.
It's probably not a popular opinion.
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CU Medallion [64517]
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Recreational type sports have definitely changed.....
Feb 19, 2015, 4:32 PM
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since I was a kid.
When I was growing-up, we played football in the fall, basketball in the winter, baseball in the spring to mid summer, and soccer in late summer.
Now-a-days, the coaches want the kids to specialize in one sport and pretty much play/work at it year around.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Recreational type sports have definitely changed.....
Feb 19, 2015, 4:36 PM
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Same thing here there was no "travel ball" Our travel ball was playing another team from our rec department or one from another local department.
when one sport ended you moved onto the next one.
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CU Guru [1003]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 4:32 PM
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Let me see if I can help you some here. My son is 15 and a half..been playing since he was 4. He played little league right there toward the end when good players were still doing it...he also played travel ball and has since he was 7. Now, from what I've been told, LL is horrible and all the good players have gone to all travel ball.
He played travel ball with friends and dads coaching until he was 11. After that, the daddy ball stuff was over and he started trying out for the higher caliber teams that had paid coaches and he had to earn his position. He is now a sophomore and starts for the varsity and plays for a very good scout team in the summer and fall. High school ball is not as important as it used to be, but don t get me wrong, it still is. You CAN NOT play only high school and expect to play in college. If you have a son that is of the caliber that you think he could play college he HAS to play for an orginization as well.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 4:34 PM
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Is there a point in the year when your son is not practicing or playing baseball?
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CU Guru [1003]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 4:47 PM
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Since he reached high school...no. High school season started first of this month..he will play that and then immediately transition over to the scout team he plays for and that will go through the end of July. He will basically take August off, although he will still be hitting and working out. Starting September the fall tourneys start as do the college prospect camps and that goes through mid December. All the rest of the time he's working out with his high school team.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 4:58 PM
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Not trying to judge but that is not healthy on his arm
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CU Guru [1003]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 5:17 PM
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Ha..thanks for the advice. Let me ask you...what on earth do you think the kids that play for Clemson or any other college are doing when they are in high school? Do you really think they play baseball for three months then go do something else? A lot of people with no clue putting their two cents in here which I figured there would be. Why I tried to answer the OP's questions.
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Legend [19352]
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CU Guru [1003]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 5:37 PM
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So tell me 117... instead of throwing up the extreme cases where kids are having their arms abused and throwing curve balls when they're 10 years old...will you tell us what your experience has been because I highly doubt you have any. Sounds to me like you're just a butt hurt parent.
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Oculus Spirit [96772]
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It appears this discussion is not quite as
Feb 19, 2015, 5:39 PM
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healthy as it was in the beginning.
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CU Guru [1003]
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Re: It appears this discussion is not quite as
Feb 19, 2015, 5:42 PM
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No it doesn't appear so..and the funny thing I haven't seen the OP post anything else
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CU Guru [1003]
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Re: It appears this discussion is not quite as
Feb 19, 2015, 5:45 PM
[ in reply to It appears this discussion is not quite as ] |
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And as it tends to happen on here..what was intended to be informative has been hijacked by the ones that know more than you do what's good for you
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 5:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion ] |
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Not a parent at all but I am sure your kid would be proud of your use of "butt hurt". Very mature.
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CU Guru [1003]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 5:49 PM
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So you are not even a parent but you're on here trying to tell me what's best for my child? Boy that's rich! Have a good one
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 6:02 PM
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I am someone who sees research and an epidemic of arm injuries in young adults.
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Zealot [823]
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CU Guru [1003]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 7:13 PM
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You are welcome...we have been doing this for a a while now and I don't know everything but I know quite a bit. All I can say is as long as he is enjoying doing it keep encouraging him and keep letting him play at the highest level that he can. My son has always played 1 to 2 years over his age and that's what you're going to have to just keep doing. I don't know what high school your son will go to but I got to ask...and I'm not trying to be a smart butt about it but if there are eighth-graders playing varsity it sounds like there's not much competition at the school
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Zealot [823]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 7:25 PM
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I knew that point wld be asked, but my post had already gotten quite lengthy, so I didn't put it. The two 8th graders aren't "starting" Varsity, but they made Varsity. I'm telling you around here, a ton of kids are apart of travel teams and even have private hitting/fielding/pitching/catching lessons. And the ages they are starting are getting younger and younger.
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110%er [5093]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 8:38 PM
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The cost is what blows my mind as someone without kids. All that money being spent on the travel and private lessons for nothing of long term value.
Everyone talks about the harm to the kids but what about the harm to the game? How is it good for MLB to turn baseball into a middle/upper class sport? Seems unproductive to exclude the best athletes from playing the sport.
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110%er [5926]
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if your son/daughter
Feb 19, 2015, 5:28 PM
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is seriously considering playing somewhere in college, then no, high school ball isn't enough. You only play 12-20 games in high school, but in travel ball you will play about five every weekend. so that means more exposure. they also have showcase tourneys every now and then. as far as the age I would say around 14-16 years old is a suitable age to start. It would also help your son/daughter in meeting new people from other schools. when I played we had players from laurens, Greenwood, Greenville, and several other places, so that is something else.
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Zealot [823]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 6:23 PM
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Lawwhhh....I step away for a hot min and look what happens. ??
Alright, brutal honesty here and the reason I brought it up in the first place.
My son started on a local "travel" team when he was five. I know.....contain the eye rolls....lol. He played 1 year of rec coaches pitch (at five) and then was "picked up" by a team that was trying to fill in 6UAA USSSA coaches pitch tourneys. As parents it wasn't "super serious" and one tourney a month wasn't bad and he was growing/developing and absolutely LOVED it......so we went with it.
But, here is what we have currently run into. Because he has played so much ball, including fall ball (we're now at 8U AA Pitching Machine, but he's six about to be seven) and because he's always "played up" he is head and shoulders above a kid at his age. Going back to rec ball would have been absolutely boring for him and not an option. So.....what do you do? It is a decision that more and more parents are having to face and make informed/educated decisions about.
While we enjoy the tourney's, (we now are on a team that does one every 2-3 weeks starting in March to July) takes August off and will play 3-4 fall tourneys and feel this is a good fit for us. Gives him enough time to "miss" it and enjoy other things.
It's just being "new" to all of the travel ball world there is pressure because very rarely does a kid just have "it" starting at 14 and be good enough to beat out all of these kids that have been playing year round ball for years. I mean at the high school my son will attend, there are 7th graders starting JV and 8th graders on Varsity bc the level of competition is so stiff.
In saying all of that, yes, we do risk burnout, (although I feel like we are not on a very super serious team.....every weekend going somewhere), but the minute he tells me he wants to stop....we stop. In my experience so far, its just so hypocritical for these articles to be written and everyone preaching "don't specialize," when the reality is if you don't, you are left behind. It's becoming the culture whether people choose to accept that or not. Do I think he will play college ball - Lort...who knows? I don't even know if he will play high school ball....but right now he's having fun, it's not too demanding and he loves it.
It's just interesting to see this trend and how it will play out in the years to come.
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Orange Blooded [4974]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 7:22 PM
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I'll say this. I played with and against some of the best talent in the state when playing American Legion Baseball. Brett Gardner, Matt Weiters, Justin Smoak, Drew Meyer, Josh Cribb, Stephen Jackson, and Reese Havens to name a few.
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All-Pro [663]
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Great book by Dr. James Andrews...
Feb 19, 2015, 7:45 PM
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"Any Given Monday" that offers his opinion on specialization and professionalism.
One thing you didn't mention is "showcase teams" and "showcases". The # of travel teams, showcase teams, showcases, professional instructors popping up is unreal.
The good news is a lot of college coaches and doctors are beginning to speak out on this subject.
BTW Vandy had a walk on last year who started and played a major role in their championship run. He never played travel ball.
As a 13 year varsity baseball coach and 5 year college coach I could write a 60 chapter book on this topic.
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MVP [535]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 7:45 PM
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Going to be honest with you played baseball my whole life, at about 11 we got heavy in to travel ball. I loved it as a kid, then at about 14-15 we decided to enter our travel team as a little league team, so that meant practice or games everyday but Wednesday and a lot of us still took BP on Wednesdays, we wound up winning state and southeast regional and wound up in Taylor michigan for the junior league World Series. Between the state and World Series it felt like being a pro on a long road stretch. At the end of that baseball year I was completely burnt out. What made matters more fun is the day I got back football started for me and I was a freshman playing with varsity. Needless to say by my junior year of high school sports couldn't mean less to me. It's a great experience just don't over do it.
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MVP [535]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 7:54 PM
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But I don't regret it at all, just wished I would've slowed down a little bit. At the end of the day you gain great friends that you could call to this day if you needed something, especially when you all have played together your whole childhood and high school days together on the same team
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CU Guru [1400]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 9:31 PM
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What age is too young to start? : I wouldn't start travel ball until at least the first year where the kids are pitching. IMO Travel coach's pitch or teeball is absolutely useless.
Do you feel that in your area the increasing number of travel teams is hurting the recreational leagues? Without a doubt it is. Sad thing is we have one of the best Dixie Youth programs in the country so it's not like he kids weren't getting quality instruction.
It has also seriously hurt American Legion Baseball
Is playing high school ball "enough" these days if you are interested in playing at a collegiate level? Sadly for the most part it's not. Most of the time the personal "eyes on" evaluation these days is done at tournaments.
How many high school team rosters have kids that are playing high school ball and travel ball?
I'm willing to bet every high school in SC has at least one kid playing travel ball. When I was coaching travel softball we had girls who drove 45 minutes one way during the week to practices because we were the closest team to their area. It's the same way with baseball....even if there isn't a local team they will find one.
Are their currently any players on Clemson's roster that did not play on a travel team?
I would really love to know the answer to the last question....if anybody knows.
Not sure but I'm willing to bet if there are there aren't very many.
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Commissioner [931]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 10:29 PM
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Possibly Maleek Gibson played Sumter Legion instead of travel. Legion ball in sumter used to be an institution in the southeast. They were one of the flagship teams for legion baseball. Now most of them are going to travel ball too.
To the poster of this:
"I'll say this. I played with and against some of the best talent in the state when playing American Legion Baseball. Brett Gardner, Matt Weiters, Justin Smoak, Drew Meyer, Josh Cribb, Stephen Jackson, and Reese Havens to name a few."
Just a few things:
Gardner was not even recruited out of HS, the next four you mentioned played travel (even back then), do not know about Jackson, but Havens also played travel. Not saying they didn't also play legion, but legion has been on a steady decline for over a decade. Also, what years were you playing because Meyer was a HS senior in 99 while Smoak and Havens were much later.
To the OP:
From about ages 5-13 kids are discovering which physical activities they like and forming their opinions of activities that will stay with them for a lifetime. They should have fun, be healthy, and learn something. They should be exposed to as many activities as possible.
Baseball is a very asymmetrical sport. Throwing from the same side, and hitting from the same side repetitively will create imbalances in the body. Without going in to a long drawn out presentation, different activities helps to keep the body in balance. Every sport has positives and drawbacks. A higher percentage of swimmers have more arm injuries than baseball players in studies where each does their sport year round.
Please don't introduce kids to a sport at young ages through travel ball. Let them try it until at least 12 or so locally. If you do play travel make sure you get someone with a positive track record, former college/pro, not daddy ball teams. If he trains and works on his game to where he's good enough he'll make his HS team. If he's good enough in HS showcase team may find him or he can try out for one in the area. USSSA(and the like) will not get your son on a HS team or college team, period.
I know that travel ball at the pre HS ages is very political at times, and it has become big business, but in the long run it does not guarantee you anything.
As a side note: there is now a trend with lots of kids now opting out of HS ball altogether so they can train and play big time showcase ball in the summer/fall where they know the scouts will be. Popular in Fl and Ga and is starting to happen in SC, too.
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Letterman [268]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 10:47 PM
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Maleeke may have played Legion but he also played on the Diamond Devils with my son. As far as those on the Clemson team, I doubt there are any who didn't play on a showcase team like the Diamond Devils, Upstate Mavericks, or something similar. I know of a couple of guys who only played high school ball and went to Anderson and Erskine, but it's just not how the D-1 programs find people now.
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Commissioner [931]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 11:24 PM
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I figured Maleeke likely played some travel.
Diamond Devils were one of the first teams to bring travel ball to SC from Florida. They've had a great run but taken a hit lately and lots of rumors flying about the quality. I hear they're even doing the super young teams now, too.
There are just so many options and so much info to sort through. Kids are being recruited for travel BEFORE high school.
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1st Rounder [623]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 19, 2015, 9:56 PM
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In reality, parents are going to start the kids whenever they want them to. Whether the kids are 8 and under or 10 and under, they simply are going to do whatever they want to. If the kids are enjoying themselves, I don't feel like there is a too early age.
In regards to rec, from personal experience the coaching you get in travel ball is much better. If it's a team you try out for, majority of the time the coach doesn't have a son on the team. The level of competition doesn't even compare, and the experience is something you reminisce on for life. I know for me, going out of town for a tourney and staying in a hotel was like vacation for me. Rec associations are slowly going down the drain, either because of money or the lack of leadership involved in coaching (and coaching correctly) and rec chair people
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Orange Blooded [3571]
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Great discussion ...
Feb 20, 2015, 1:29 AM
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I actually run a 9u "travel ball team" in Ft. Mill. My son is on the team and we play every other weekend from March-May and then do 4-5 tournies in the fall. We created this team with the best rec ball players from our rec department in Tega Cay. We have had them together for 2 years now. I have surrounded myself with 2 former college players that don't have kids on the team. We only play locally in Charlotte and do one out of town trip per season, last fall we played at the Cal Ripken Experience in Myrtle Beach against teams from as far away as Ohio and actually won our bracket.
We by no means take this is as serious as other "clubs" around Charlotte. We did this so the boys could play better competition than they see in rec leagues. With that said 5 of my players also play on rec teams. Our travel team practices twice per week and the kids playing rec ball get in another 1-2 practices per week.
My son will play as long as he has fun, but the first time he tells me he is done with it, we are done. Realistically if he wants to keep playing, I will coach him til 11u and then turn him over to a "club" team so that he can get better coaching. In this area the travel/ tournament baseball teams have absolutely replaced rec ball.
To avoid any kind of arm injuries all of our pitchers are on strict pitch counts each weekend regardless of how the game is going. And when I say pitch counts, no pitcher of mine ever throws more than 60 pitches during a weekend. I saw a coach last fall from Rowan let a 9 year old throw 94 pitches in one game....ridiculous!
I see too many parents having dreams for their kids. We all want our kids to be awesome, but I honestly believe that some kids are just born with the "it factor". Meaning that know matter how much coaching or whatever they still will not be in the 1% that actually get to play at high level.
We do it solely for fun and don't take it seriously. I think it all has to do with what you ultimately want your kid exposed to.
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Orange Blooded [2894]
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My biggest complaint is overuse of pitchers. Leo Mazzone
Feb 20, 2015, 6:49 AM
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said year round of any one sport is not good for kids. They get overused plus he thinks playing other sports increases overall athleticism.
He spoke at a clinic I went to years ago and basically despises travel or specialization in one sport.
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Orange Blooded [3571]
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i could not agree more...
Feb 20, 2015, 8:05 AM
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All of our kids play basketball and flag football during summer (none of the moms will let them put pads on yet, but that's an entire different discussion)
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Commissioner [931]
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Re: My biggest complaint is overuse of pitchers. Leo Mazzone
Feb 20, 2015, 8:09 AM
[ in reply to My biggest complaint is overuse of pitchers. Leo Mazzone ] |
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Playing travel does not necessarily mean you have to specialize, and vice versa. Anyone that tells you that you must PLAY year round is either foolish or wants your wallet.
If you work on your craft and get good you will have options.
Have fun because the older you get and closer to HS/college/pro the more it becomes business like because the coach/managers job is on the line.
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1st Rounder [646]
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Well said! I have seen parents taking the fun out of for
Feb 20, 2015, 8:47 AM
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the kids. I have seen parents making kids cry because they made an error or struck out.
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1st Rounder [646]
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My son only plays in rec ball. He has filled in for a travel
Feb 20, 2015, 8:43 AM
[ in reply to My biggest complaint is overuse of pitchers. Leo Mazzone ] |
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team and parents I spoke with were not happy with the experience or the coaching. There is a 13 year old that was a pretty good pitcher, had nice velocity but now his arm is toast. I heard that one weekend last year he pitched the LL max of 85 pitches on Friday and then pitched a game in a travel tournament that weekend. My son will play in 2 LL divisions (Majors, 50/70) this year but I am only going to allow him to pitch in one division. I think kids at this age need to play more than one sport (he plays basketball also)so they do not get burned out on a sport
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Orange Blooded [3821]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 20, 2015, 9:28 AM
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What age is too young to start? Hard to say. I have friends who have started as early as 6. My oldest didn't start until 12 & my youngest will probably start at 10 or 11.
Do you feel that in your area the increasing number of travel teams is hurting the recreational leagues? My area Rec along with two other local towns offers a "Select" program where the best players play each other. This has helped stem the tide of travel players until about age 12.
Is playing high school ball "enough" these days if you are interested in playing at a collegiate level? If you have to ask this question then your son probably isn't going to play college. If he's good coaches will come to you.
How many high school team rosters have kids that are playing high school ball and travel ball? In my area you can not do both at the same time. The coaches won't allow it. The coaches also get summer programs going as well.
Are their currently any players on Clemson's roster that did not play on a travel team? Very doubtful. In my area you have to have played travel to make the high school team. Although our high school team is a perennial contender in the 6A level.
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All-Pro [693]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 20, 2015, 9:31 AM
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From someone who played USSSA baseball for 8 years I would like to answer your questions from the perspective of someone that has played and not just a parent.
First off I started playing USSSA tournaments or travel ball when I was 9. The rec league competition in Pickens was not very strong, typically each team had about 2 good players and that was it. We started off playing about a tournament a month and played typically from March-October. From the age of about 14 and on though I played for many different teams, usually had one full time team and then the weekends that we were off there would be a team somewhere needing extra players and I would fill in a roster spot for a tournament. By this time we were playing tournaments every weekend all year long as well as HS ball (made the team as a 7th grader) and still playing REC ball (thought among most players and parents was get as much PT as you can). This schedule lasted several years until it was time to play on the American Legion and BLWS teams at 18. A great deal of players on our teams went on to play college ball to some extent, most to smaller colleges like Spartanburg Methodist, Erskin, something like that. Did play with John Nester the Clemson catcher for about 3 years, played with John-David Burgess who played at Clemson for a few seasons and played against Wingo (USC) and Michael Roth and also went to the USSA world series back to back years in Kissimmee, FLA. Now to your questions.
1 - I feel like about the age of 11 - 12 is the best years to start playing more competitive ball but it really depends on how advanced the kid is. Seems like around 11 kids are able to start understanding coaching strategy and fundamentals and why they are doing something. A more advanced player can begin to learn these things earlier but from the little I have coached it seems like even the more talented kids can do what you instruct them to do, but they do not understand why they are doing it or forget it by the next game and have to be re-taught. Truly though it is a case by case situation on when is the best time to start a kid in travel ball. It also depends on the teams philosophy as all you want your kid to play on. Some teams are highly serious and it's like the major leagues to them, some are more about giving the kids more play time and using it to teach the game regardless of wins or losses. Again it really just depends on what fits your kid and you as a parents attitudes and goals. I have seen more parents destroy a kids career though bad parenting than any team, coaches, or injuries combined.
2 - Like I said about Pickens REC leagues are usually pretty weak. There will be a few talented kids mixed in through the league and its a great place to get practice in but if your kid is serious about playing ball then playing in some type of extra league whether it be USSSA, club ball, private league, is a must.
3 - Again this depends on the kid. I'm sure a player with enough talent would get noticed only playing HS ball but playing travel ball increases the chances the kid is going to get seen tremendously. Especially once reaching the 16-18 yr range where there are special show case tournaments, American legion teams, and leagues specifically designed to give HS players more exposure to college teams. Everyone I know that played college ball played some form of ball outside of HS. It got to the point at Pickens that our HS coach tried to ban all of us players from playing USSSA ball during the HS season because we would come into practice or a game during the week worn out from playing a tournament the weekend before or even had players tell the coach they could not pitch because they had to pitch in a tournament the upcoming weekend (the tournaments were much more important to us than HS).
4 - As mentioned above almost every player on our HS team played USSSA, not all on the same team.
Hope some of this provides some information into the travel ball world and helps in some way.
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Orange Blooded [3821]
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Travel Ball depends on 2 things: Where you live & what you
Feb 20, 2015, 9:50 AM
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want out of it.
Depending on where you live will depend on how much travel will actually be involved. It also decides what your alternatives are to travel. Is the Rec strong? Do they have all-star options?
The other is your expectations. Most travel players will not play college ball & virtually none will play in the MLB. In fact in competitive areas the may not even make their high school team. Parents need to realize this. Your son is enjoying playing competitive baseball that he may or may not continue to develop through high school and beyond.
Until you get to solid Majors levels team most coaches are unpaid Dads. This doesn't mean they aren't good its again a reality. I know many very good upper AAA teams run by very good coaches who are Dads. Teams turn over or disband if the coaching is poor or the coaches are playing Daddy-ball.
Now I can only speak for my area, North Atlanta, & may be wrong about other areas.
Just my 2 cents
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Zealot [823]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 20, 2015, 10:16 AM
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I have really enjoyed the feedback and insight from you guys. I've liked reading the experiences of other parents and players.
I guess the biggest thing that has me "bugged" or "wound up" is the hypocrisy. Maybe that's not the correct word.....but college coaches are obviously looking for talent at other avenues besides high school ball.
Which, in my opinion, has created the culture of the showcases/tourney's/travel ball. Which, has caused more parents and players to abandon "rec" ball and compete at a higher level. Which is driving the age to begin - so you can actually "make" these elite teams - to be younger and younger.
If these college coaches disagree with travel ball at a younger age and do not believe in an athlete playing year round sport, then in my opinion, they are just feeding the beast....the culture.....by going to the very places that are creating the talent and the culture.
Does that make since?
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All-In [30593]
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I don't think college coaches disagree with it at all... but
Feb 20, 2015, 10:38 AM
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I do... and it's my family, not theirs
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Commissioner [931]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 20, 2015, 12:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion ] |
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Tigerchick:
Yes I would say your perspective as an outsider is an accurate perception. Travel ball is not going anywhere, and it's capitalism at work, if you want quality you are going to have to pay for it.
But just like healthcare, insurance, and car sales industries(etc etc)...there are some good and some bad people involved. There are some really good and not so good programs.
If you want your son to play college baseball it's really more up to you to make sure he develops appropriately and you do your homework before making decisions on where he plays.
The disconnect with college coaches at the showcase ball level is that some programs goal is quantity not quality. In other words hitting quota's to make money and more teams equals more money. If they lose money they won't be around long and therefore can't "help" any kids at all. On the other side the college coaches in baseball are spread so thin, they almost never go to legion or HS games anymore. They want to see as many quality players as possible in a short amount of time. They don't care about the team name or any of that other fluff. They want to know if he fits as a player/person in their program asap. Many coaches are frustrated when they see watered down teams that just make the coaches extra $. It wastes their time.
I could literally write a book on this stuff.
Their is no political buddy system that can get kids a scholarship. If he's good enough get the right eyes on him at the right time...the rest takes care of itself usually (if he's good academically).
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Trainer [48]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 20, 2015, 1:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion ] |
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And yes....Tigerchick, it does make since. :/
I knew and my kid knew at NINE, he was done with Rec ball. He was in "fall ball" rec league playing 3rd, fielded a ball hit to him at 3B and roped a ball to first base to get the out. The 1B kid wasn't even looking for the ball, it narrowly missed his head and would've most likely killed him or the ball would have remained lodged in said 1B's head for life. Rec ball has it's place and should keep the post game snacks flowing along with the ribbons and "participation" trophies, it just wasn't for my kid or us long term past 9U.
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CU Guru [1851]
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Wow....wish I had seen this thread earlier!!
Feb 20, 2015, 1:23 PM
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Kind of late to expound on it now as most everyone who would read it already has
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Trainer [48]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 20, 2015, 1:25 PM
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My son started baseball at 4U, tee ball and played rec for a total of 5 years. He played travel at 8U for an East Cobb team and then again at 10 (we moved) and travel ball from that point forward. Short of God given ability and his dedication/hard work...travel ball fostered his desire to play higher level ball and certainly helped prepare him for HS and college. He will play for Clemson next year on scholarship.
What age is too young to start? I don't see 4 being too young to learn the basics but also think varying sports could help find their passion.
Do you feel that in your area the increasing number of travel teams is hurting the recreational leagues?
Yes more teams. Rec ball is what it is, a good starting point or a haven for kids who just want to have fun and play with limited to no pressure.
Is playing high school ball "enough" these days if you are interested in playing at a collegiate level?
No, absolutely not. Ask anyone who is playing higher level ball and although there are rare exceptions....most played travel ball for some period.
How many high school team rosters have kids that are playing high school ball and travel ball?
Most, but we are in Cobb county..one of THE best places to be for travel baseball in the world.
Are their currently any players on Clemson's roster that did not play on a travel team?
My money is less than 2% of rostered players did not play travel.
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CU Guru [1003]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 20, 2015, 1:34 PM
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You headin out to LakePoint to watch any of the college games there this weekend?
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Trainer [48]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 20, 2015, 1:45 PM
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Might sneak up there....10 mins from the house.
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CU Guru [1003]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 20, 2015, 2:57 PM
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Would be pretty cool to be that close in on college action. Sons got a scrimmage tomorrow or I would consider runnin down there. Place is nice now..gonna be amazing when it's done
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CU Guru [1003]
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All-Conference [439]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 20, 2015, 6:35 PM
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I think most high school sports expect football and maybe bball will eventually become irrelevant in terms of getting a college offer.
I know for me, now I didn't play travel baseball past the age of 11. I played club soccer. I did both one year, I was a better soccer player so I went that route.
But the comparison between club soccer and high school is not even close. And I'm sure baseball, basketball, volleyball ect are all the same. I went to riverside a very strong baseball and soccer school. The sports won a combined 5-6 state championships when I was in school but even so the caliber of play was significantly lower than my club team.
My team played in what was called premier league. The top two finishers (some states had 3) in the club state tourny from each state in the south east was in it. It was VA, Tenn, NC, SC, GA, FL, Bama, Ark. Making about a 18 team league. So that's the area we traveled. I did that from age 14-18. I loved it I never got bored of it. It gave us a tremendous amount of exposure to college coaches as they would frequently be at our games as we were the highest level of competition. We would also have huge "college showcase" tournaments in places like Disney world. There would be hundreds of coaches from all over the country at these types of events.
I can't remember there ever being coaches at high school games. Maybe state finals but just to watch players already committed and show attention to them. Mainly bc the level of play. You got to think about it we had 15 or so people on my club team. We were the best 15 players in the greenville/upstate area for our age group. Of us 15 no more the 3-4 of us would go to the same high school. The competition and level of play was just drastically lower. I still loved high school soccer bc I was then playing against all my buddies. But it wasn't the same.
In the end I was only ever going to go to one college and I was never good enough to play for clemson and I realized this at a young age so I never really got into recruiting. I had offers from random small schools but I never considered it as I knew there was nothing for me past college level soccer so I made the decision to get a good education from a school I've loved since I was toddler. And I couldn't be prouder to be a clemson alum
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Commissioner [912]
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Re: Travel Baseball - Healthy discussion
Feb 20, 2015, 6:45 PM
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We have been involved with travel ball for 5 years. Our son is now 13 and is playing school ball now then will play travel in the spring and summer. Fortunately most teams like coming to myrtle beach area so we don't travel much. Rec is rec. We play rec to support our community and to be part of it. The key is to pace your child and to not burn him or her out and let them be kids. Although I think playing games or tourneys are important, I think training and learning by real coaches is the key. There is way too much DADDY ball. We are fortunate as we have a guy who played and coached D3 college who we work with a lot. I would not play more than 6 months and only every other weekend with a mid summer break. Little league shoulder injuries from over use with growth plate injuries are common. I want our son to work hard, have fun, train hard, and have balance.
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