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Legend [15870]
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My opinion discusses TB and Brad Brownell. It’s long but full of great information
Feb 13, 2022, 12:03 AM
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about the football and basketball programs at Clemson.
Long but imo it’s worth the read of at least the online articles.
People can slam on TB all that you want but can’t deny that he helped to change the culture at Clemson, hired Dabo and had some great wins and owned the coots. Tommy was a lot like his father but he had a unique personality because of his Christian faith. I meet him several times at Christian effects where he spoke. Once you engage him in conversation he shows what a great person he was.
He also likes bed Clemson very much and wanted to win as much as any other HC. Some of his losses you have put on the players, we lost to some really good teams and occasionally teams we should be beat but so did Danny and so has Dabo. Tommy was responsible for hiring Brad Scott who made many great contributions while at Clemson. And he hired Dabo and we all know how that turned out.
Bowden does not get the credit or respect he deserves for his contributions to the program. Dabo is a special HC but he had some advantages TB did not have. The BOT and AD did increase assistant coaching salaries, updated the athletic facilities, invested a lot more money into the football program, this helped us to recruit more talent and eventually win more games. With Dabo’s special vision for the program gave us a map to Elite status. IMO none of this would been possible without TB leaving Dabo a solid foundation to build from. This also allowed Dabo to build a program so unique it lured some of the best talent in college football to Clemson. After one year of adversity some fans have started turned on Dabo and some of his staff.
Now we get to basketball and Coach Brownell. I think he has done a good job with the resources given to him. IMO it’s the outside of Littlejohn that I believe needs vast improvement’s. And Brad has had as much success and in some cases more despite a much larger conference and better competition.
Here is some information you might want to look at before considering to fire Brad Brownell.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Clemson_Tigers_men%27s_basketball_seasons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Clemson_Tigers_head_basketball_coaches
If you compare all of Clemson Basketball HC’s records I believe Brad Brownell had done a really good job with limited resources. If you want a winning Basketball Program then more money is needed. We put more money into the football program and you can see the results.
IMO HC BB gets criticized far more than he deserves. I think changing HC’s would not only cost the school money we may not have and I don’t think the results will be that much different. I am All In with HC BB. I think the team played their guts out tonight in our loss the the top ranked ACC team and part timer ND. We just ran out of gas tonight with 2 key players missing.
If the links don’t work I can paste them again.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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Yawn.
Feb 13, 2022, 12:57 AM
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Clemson basketball is deeply mired in mediocrity, no debate about that, but it doesn't have to stay that way. That kind of thinking is preposterous. The proper commitment, which absolutely must include a new coach at this point, can make it happen. Brownell has had 12 years. Next man up.
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Legend [15870]
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Re: Yawn.
Feb 13, 2022, 1:12 AM
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If your fire Brownell then the AD must invest more money into the BB program. I am all for that solution. When Tommy left and Dabo became our HC the AD and BOT agreed to put millions into winning, hiring the best coaches, improving facilities and making a long term commitment to building a successful football program.
We need that same kind of commitment to basketball, if you are going to fire Coach Brownell. If the financial commitment is not there then firing BB and hiring another HC would be a lateral move in my opinion.
HC = more financial investment into basketball program.
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CU Guru [1778]
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Re: Yawn.
Feb 13, 2022, 1:20 AM
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Well you can't invest more into a coach that you don't believe in. That's the situation we are in now. No one believes in Brownell. Most think it was a waste to renovate Littlejohn with him as the head coach. Get a guy you can feel good about investing in.
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Legend [15870]
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Re: Yawn.
Feb 13, 2022, 5:14 AM
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I meant to say if you hire a new HC it should come with more money invested into the program. If Brownell stays I don’t see the AD making a huge increase into Clemson’s basketball program. That’s what HC = increase investment into the basketball program means.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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I don't disagree, but any attempt to justify continuing the
Feb 13, 2022, 1:38 AM
[ in reply to Re: Yawn. ] |
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current situation is preposterous. A coaching change must be made no matter what. I agree 100% that a total commitment to the basketball program needs to be made as well (I have been saying that for a few years now).
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CU Guru [1778]
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Re: My opinion discusses TB and Brad Brownell. It’s long but full of great information
Feb 13, 2022, 1:17 AM
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Bowden was good for the program, he cut some fat and got us focused on the right things. He set the stage for the next guy to take that foundation to the next level. We'll see if Brad is remembered the same way or is he the Tommy West.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: My opinion discusses TB and Brad Brownell. It’s long but full of great information
Feb 13, 2022, 3:06 AM
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You bring up some very good points ,but ,IMO ,you missed the one thing that I think is key to the situation; Recruiting.
You are correct in that Tommy Bowden helped set the foundation that is Clemson football, but even the facilities were not that good when he Dabo took over. But Dabo found a way to win before the Administration took the necessary steps to upgrade the program. In fact in the 14 seasons under Dabo his worst year was year 3,the only losing season he has had. And he even managed to go .500 in the conference.
On the other hand ,Brad's best finish in conference was a tie for 3rd in 2017-2018.
So why the difference? It's not facilities nor increasing coaches salaries.
Heck, it's not even AAU money, or NIL, or shoe contracts as was mentioned in another post.
The thing is Basketball will never be able to compete for revenue like football.
But again it's recruiting. But I will give Brad some benefit of the doubt. He is never going to be able to get the talent of an UNC, Duke, maybe even Virginia ,but with an overall winning record, where he falls short is in conference wins; And we don't just play those 3 teams.
At 98-109 in conference you could ask how many of those wins came against those 3 teams ,but the bigger question is how many of those losses came against Boston College ,Wake, N.C. State, Ga. Tech FSU, Va. Tech, Louisville, Pittsburg, Syracuse Miami, even Notre Dame.
Are you telling me that all of these other schools have better, or improved facilities ,or spend more money on coaching staff's. I doubt that seriously.
But if you can tell me how a program can continue to have the same issues year in and year out, issues like games with 5-7 minute scoring droughts , or more turnovers than attempted 3 point shots, or poor free throw percentages ,or getting out rebounded on both end of the court, and then tie that in with revenue with or with out the fact that IMO, we can't even recruit 3 star, even 4 star recruits to compete against those schools not named Duke, UNC, even Virginia, you have sold me.
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All-In [48272]
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Re: My opinion discusses TB and Brad Brownell. It’s long but full of great information
Feb 13, 2022, 7:56 AM
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^^^ just may be poty on our bball woes^^^
Well said. There are 4 schools in the ACC that pay head bball coach more. And the 4th includes recent Louisville. 6 coaches make less than Brad. 5 coaches make within a couple hundred thousand of each other.
It's all about the Jimmy and Joes. And the few good ones he's had, he can't develop.
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Orange Blooded [3625]
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Re: My opinion discusses TB and Brad Brownell. It’s long but full of great information
Feb 13, 2022, 8:30 AM
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Great historical but - was there even a forward pass in football back then? To have a subpar program because we’ve never had a great program is bassackwards. Why not strive to improve and aim for the top? Even if we can’t get to the top, a “good” program would be a great improvement. Being content with just fielding a team is unfair to the fanbase. Shouldn’t results and improvement be the goal?
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Orange Blooded [3380]
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Re: My opinion discusses TB and Brad Brownell. It’s long but full of great information
Feb 13, 2022, 9:27 AM
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So when I look at the original post I see that Clemson fired Cliff Ellis after two seasons of losing as many as we won. CBB has had 12 years to build a winning program, but cannot and never will have a winning program.
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1st Rounder [645]
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Re: My opinion discusses TB and Brad Brownell. It’s long but full of great information
Feb 13, 2022, 4:39 PM
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You’re own example tells us what we should do. Thank Brownell for building a foundation like Tommy did, but move on to a better coach who can get us to heights never before seen in the BB program. There was risk in letting Tommy go and hiring Dabo, but the reward has been great. We need to the same now in basketball.
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