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Hall of Famer [22291]
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Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 6:32 AM
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Here's the crucial 3rd down play with about 2 mins left, to seal the win, as BC was out of timeouts. That's DJ getting sacked for a loss at the top of the picture. Check out his 3 receivers. See anybody open? See any separation at all? Anywhere? Me neither.
Rewatching our games this year I've noticed this quite often... nobody's open. Yes, you can question the play calling, the OL, DJ's inaccuracy at times, etc. Those are valid concerns. But our receivers are not up to snuff, either. Maybe E All of the Above? I don't know, just an observation.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 6:40 AM
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You could be right, but I look at our offense as a jigsaw puzzle. It only takes one missing piece ,out of many and you can't complete the picture.
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Hall of Famer [22291]
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And maybe that is it... E, All of the Above. (LOL) There is always
Oct 6, 2021, 7:02 AM
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a piece missing. The OL breaks down sometimes, sometimes nobody is open, and if they are... DJ misses em. I don't know, just spitballing here. Obviously I don't really know squat, or I'd be yanking down a couple million a year coaching.
Maybe we're spoiled by seeing guys like Nuk & Sammy or whoever running 5 yards behind the secondary. Or guys like Tee Higgins & Mike Williams (& Ross when healthy) who just took the ball away from defenders... we could throw up 50/50 balls and they became 90/10. And of course, Third and Renfrow... who was breaking ankles in the secondary and ALWAYS open on crucial plays.
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110%er [9089]
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Re: And maybe that is it... E, All of the Above. (LOL) There is always
Oct 6, 2021, 8:55 AM
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I think you hit the nail on the head - we've been spoiled. We've had the best of the best at RB, WR and QB for several years. Some were 5 stars, some were 4, some were even walkons. Truth is, you never know how someone will perform at this level until they get there. And even then, they're dependent upon their QB, OL, etc. Great players don't necessarily make great teams, but great teams can make great players. Right now, I think we have some great players, but for whatever reason, some of them just aren't performing up to expectations just yet - could be youth, coaching, team dynamics, personal issues, or whatever - but that always happens: 5 stars under-achieve sometimes and walkons blow it out of the box.
We've gotten the mindset that every QB will be a TL or a DW, and every RB will be an Ettienne or Gallman, and ever WR will be a Watkins, Hopkins, Higgins, Williams, Renfrow, etc, when that's simply not realistic.
These guys will get it together, though. I've no doubt. If nothing else, they're fighters. Many fans may have already given up, but this team definitely has not.
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Hall of Famer [22291]
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I agree, brother. Well stated. It can't be Christmas every day.
Oct 6, 2021, 9:12 AM
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Orange Blooded [2274]
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Re: I agree, brother. Well stated. It can't be Christmas every day.
Oct 6, 2021, 12:26 PM
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You may be right but Bama sure does have Christmas every year or day.
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110%er [6858]
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Disagree with that take completely
Oct 6, 2021, 10:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: And maybe that is it... E, All of the Above. (LOL) There is always ] |
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Our offense is a dumpster fire. Watching it is nearly as painful as a root canal. There are few offenses in all of college football worse than Clemsons. So youre telling me the we have to have 1st round NFL talent to make this thing work? Well thats a problem! And sounds a helluva lot like a coaching issue to me!
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110%er [6981]
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Re: Disagree with that take completely
Oct 6, 2021, 3:23 PM
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Even though this is a negative post, there’s something to it. If you have to have an NFL 1st rounders to run your scheme, you don’t really have a scheme…you have a bunch of NFL talent winning jump balls and foot races
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Orange Blooded [2474]
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All-Conference [424]
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Re: And maybe that is it... E, All of the Above. (LOL) There is always
Oct 7, 2021, 6:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: And maybe that is it... E, All of the Above. (LOL) There is always ] |
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I think you hit the nail on the head - we've been spoiled. We've had the best of the best at RB, WR and QB for several years. Some were 5 stars, some were 4, some were even walkons. Truth is, you never know how someone will perform at this level until they get there. And even then, they're dependent upon their QB, OL, etc. Great players don't necessarily make great teams, but great teams can make great players. Right now, I think we have some great players, but for whatever reason, some of them just aren't performing up to expectations just yet - could be youth, coaching, team dynamics, personal issues, or whatever - but that always happens: 5 stars under-achieve sometimes and walkons blow it out of the box.
We've gotten the mindset that every QB will be a TL or a DW, and every RB will be an Ettienne or Gallman, and ever WR will be a Watkins, Hopkins, Higgins, Williams, Renfrow, etc, when that's simply not realistic.
These guys will get it together, though. I've no doubt. If nothing else, they're fighters. Many fans may have already given up, but this team definitely has not.
This should be POTD. FACTS^^^^^^^^^^^^100% The truth
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Orange Blooded [2420]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 6:41 AM
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They play 6 on 4. If he could lead the receivers, they could use their bodies to shield the defenders.
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Scout Team [178]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 6:46 AM
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Good example, but I also don't see an offensive lineman in that picture at all either.
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Hall of Famer [22291]
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yeah, but we rolled the pocket on this play... I'm just saying
Oct 6, 2021, 7:08 AM
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sometimes when I wonder why did he take the sack or throw it away... it's because nobody's open.
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All-Pro [672]
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Re: yeah, but we rolled the pocket on this play... I'm just saying
Oct 6, 2021, 7:38 AM
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I honestly think the commentator was exactly right on this one. I think the only receiver that was ever a real option was the tight end and BC sniffed that out. From there, I think DJ was instructed to tuck the ball instead of throwing it in order to make BC used their last timeout.
All things considered, think DJ made sound decision, but wasn’t given a great decision free.
Play was probably to clever for its on good. Run the QB power, it had been working all game.
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110%er [8244]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 6:56 AM
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On the left side of picture
I do see 2 holding calls that were not called
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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Good coverage always looks like holding in a still frame
Oct 6, 2021, 7:46 AM
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I don't want to see MORE flags thrown on DB and LBs in coverage. There's already plenty of that in CFB right now.
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CU Medallion [58377]
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Refs need to do their jobs and enforce the rules whether you
Oct 6, 2021, 11:28 AM
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or "fans" like it or not. Our WRs are grabbed and held on every play. That's not an excuse, because somehow other teams get their guys wide open with no problem. I'm just pointing out that the refs are failing on a massive scale, and it is impacting the game itself, in the way it is taught, coached, and played.
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Orange Blooded [4447]
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Re: Refs need to do their jobs and enforce the rules whether you
Oct 6, 2021, 12:29 PM
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The ACC officials are the worst of any conference I would like to meet the guy that hired them and tell him you are fired
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Legend [17888]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 7:24 AM
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Remember how TL would throw the ball in a spot where the receiver could catch it? Even when covered? Maybe that is a BIG part of the problem - DJ can't.
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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Most college QBs can't do that. Those are NFL throws
Oct 6, 2021, 7:47 AM
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Watch a good college offense and they get guys open frequently. And by open, i mean reallllly open.
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Hall of Famer [22291]
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Well, yeah... but I also remember all of the unbelievable catches,
Oct 6, 2021, 7:47 AM
[ in reply to Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes? ] |
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too. Say... Williams & Leggette in the 2016 title game, especially that last drive. Not perfect passes, but incredible catches. And the 2018 title game... the announcers kept saying - Wow, how about these Clemson receivers who continue to make acrobatic catches. Remember those?
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Legend [16472]
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I seem to remember a Renfrow catch or twelve where he was
Oct 6, 2021, 7:57 AM
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able to change his direction at last minute and catch a throw that was way behind him. Lots of that from receivers in past years. This year there's more drops on good throws and not much of the spectacular. Heck the "50/50" balls have become only 10% for our guys. And I know they can do it. I remember Ross with some special catches, a few by Ladson, etc. Not sure if that is the type of ball DJ throws or what. He certainly doesn't seem to have the touch on the short stuff.
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Legend [16121]
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Nope, Ladson has been dropping passes that hit him in
Oct 6, 2021, 2:08 PM
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the hands since day One...He had one good catch last year on a deep pass, but he bobbles or just outright drops most of the ones he gets his hands on
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Orange Blooded [4014]
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110%er [9089]
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You don't take that chance at that point in the game
Oct 6, 2021, 8:59 AM
[ in reply to Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes? ] |
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and with that field position. Doubtful even TL would've done that with that kind of coverage. They get a pick and it's likely all over.
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Orange Blooded [4447]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 12:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes? ] |
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100% correct He should put it out there where either our guy can get it or nobody can DJ unless someone is wide open will not usually throw and then many times it is overthrown
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CU Guru [1921]
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Nobody has been open
Oct 6, 2021, 7:28 AM
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for years. That's a problem with the offense not the receivers. We've thrown jump balls and back shoulder passes to covered receivers always. Our offense sucks tactically.
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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Blunt, but largely true
Oct 6, 2021, 7:50 AM
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We don't seem to "scheme guys open" often at all.
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Orange Blooded [4014]
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Re: Blunt, but largely true
Oct 6, 2021, 1:20 PM
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IF teams are playing cover 2 man against us, then there is nothing to scheme except for maybe rubs or picks. It's straight up 1 on 1 on the underneath routes, and it's up to our 4 and 5 star receivers to get open and or make the tough catches. Now if teams are playing zone, different story.
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Orange Blooded [4435]
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CU Medallion [65037]
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Not totally true. We have had two exceptional individuals
Oct 6, 2021, 8:13 AM
[ in reply to Nobody has been open ] |
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play the slot that could get open almost at will. Those being Hunter Renfrow and Amari Rodgers. It came to be called "3rd and Renfrow" for a reason, he would reliably be open most of the time on third down, especially. Now, did that mask problems for other receivers? That could be open for debate. Undeniably, we are missing that "go to" guy who can shake himself open at the time we need him most, right now.
Early on, I was actually hoping to see Shipley and / or Stellato in the slot. Apparently both those options are gone now.
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Hall of Famer [22291]
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That's a brutal observation, and I really can't disagree....
Oct 6, 2021, 8:58 AM
[ in reply to Nobody has been open ] |
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We've been able to depend on 1) an NFL caliber QB that can make those difficult cross-field, back-shoulder throws on a dime, and 2) elite WRs that caught everything in the same zip code on 50/50 balls. And now that we don't have that, the offense is "struggling".
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CU Guru [1921]
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Making my point
Oct 6, 2021, 10:16 AM
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We need a great athletic advantage because we don't scheme anybody open.
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Legend [16121]
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I don't understand why people struggle to see this***
Oct 6, 2021, 2:33 PM
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Orange Blooded [4014]
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Re: I don't understand why people struggle to see this***
Oct 7, 2021, 7:59 AM
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What are you going to scheme in man to man coverage?
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Orange Blooded [4447]
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Re: Nobody has been open
Oct 6, 2021, 12:37 PM
[ in reply to Nobody has been open ] |
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Agree We have gotten by not on scheme but throwing up and letting our go up and make a big catch
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Orange Blooded [4435]
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ALOT of the problems fall on our WR's and Coach Grisham.
Oct 6, 2021, 7:42 AM
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Maybe his promotion was to soon and he should have been a offensive analyst for a little while longer. There's concern about our future offensive line coach as well. If the BEST IS THE STANDARD maybe we should look outside for a new prospective.
I'm not saying that's the answer just something we should consider and look into and weigh out.
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All-Pro [682]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 7:52 AM
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I seem to see what ever team we play gets wide open receivers , none of our d backs are close to their receivers. Our receivers are clothed by the opponent dB.
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110%er [8565]
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Receivers are covered up for sure....
Oct 6, 2021, 7:55 AM
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Agree this is one piece of the puzzle.
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Hall of Famer [24056]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 7:58 AM
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Might I say this is an ‘indicator’ as opposed to a ‘big part’? What is concerning to me is that we have rooms full of GA’s - and coaches - that do nothing else but what you’ve done on this one play. And they do it for every play. Which includes a LOT of 3 and outs, sacks, etc. Therefore, this team’s lack of success (or inability to execute effectively) is on the entire team imo.
Equally worrisome is the fact that we have played our fifth game and haven’t seen significant (once again imo) improvement. I AM, however, VERY hopeful that we come out of the bye week showing improvement.
Message was edited by: Uncle Bill®
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CU Guru [1250]
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Actually, the Tight End Was Open
Oct 6, 2021, 8:01 AM
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earlier in the route, DJ just didn't get the ball to him.
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CU Guru [1786]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 8:02 AM
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Stale offense. Our selection of consistently successful plays has been shrinking for years. Trevor and Travis masked a lot of it.
For as long as I have been watching football (most of my life), the quarterback would often throw to an open receiver. We rarely have open receivers anymore. We have been allowing the defense to shut down our plays and we accept it and 'take what they give us' rather than come up with anything new. Now we don't have any successful plays anymore. So, here we are.
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Orange Blooded [4435]
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I couldn't agree more.***
Oct 6, 2021, 8:25 AM
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Orange Blooded [2894]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 12:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes? ] |
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Also don’t seem to have cerebral receivers like Renfrow. They’re just out there relying on speed and athletic ability but no effort to out think the competition.
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Oculus Spirit [78831]
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Renfrow was always open
Oct 6, 2021, 8:02 AM
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and still is in the NFL
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Hall of Famer [24178]
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Are the receivers being held like our defensive lineman ?
Oct 6, 2021, 8:10 AM
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?
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110%er [8520]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 8:37 AM
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That is what I have said from the Georgia game on. We have no speed and no ability to separate in our WR room. If the freshmen can play let them play and find someone, anyone, to play the slot position.
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Hall of Famer [22291]
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another way to put it... for years we've had receivers that we knew
Oct 6, 2021, 9:03 AM
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would be very high draft picks and go in the first couple rounds. Who would that be on this team?
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Oculus Spirit [80035]
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In the past few games, I've seen several wrs not even
Oct 6, 2021, 9:19 AM
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finish running their routes...Also none of them have liked blocking for the ball carrier all yr.
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Oculus Spirit [80035]
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Also, when DJ does get pressured our wr don't help him out
Oct 6, 2021, 9:20 AM
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by coming back to the ball or getting open.
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Hall of Famer [22291]
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yeah, that too.***
Oct 6, 2021, 9:53 AM
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All-American [581]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 9:21 AM
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All true…..but DJ absolutely cannot take a sack in these situations. A young QB mistake or coaching??
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Orange Blooded [3673]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 9:32 AM
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ive asked several friends who are fans of other schools what they think the problem is. what they said is DJ is inaccurate and a few of them believe he will transfer next year when Cade gets here after a few games in. the OL is bad and the WR's aren't as good as the last few years. we also don't have a consistent option at TE and ross is out of place at the slot. missing a renfrow-rodgers if we had a running game and maybe we have found something with the OL combination and mafah/pace that would take a lot of pressure off of DJ and the WR's
Message was edited by: MidlandsTiger87®
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All-TigerNet [10354]
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It's CRAZY that BC had wide open WRs & TEs all night, but...
Oct 6, 2021, 9:38 AM
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we couldn't get separation if our life depended on it.
It can't be PLAYERS b/c nobody will convince me that BC has better WR talent than we do. It has to be scheme/playcalling.
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Orange Blooded [3044]
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Re: It's CRAZY that BC had wide open WRs & TEs all night, but...
Oct 6, 2021, 9:50 AM
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For the most part I think it all comes back to the OL. More time helps QB and WR. But as others said above all 3 factors are involved.
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Hall of Famer [22291]
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Yes, that's exasperating as well... you watch other teams
Oct 6, 2021, 9:59 AM
[ in reply to It's CRAZY that BC had wide open WRs & TEs all night, but... ] |
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execute plays with crisp precision. Mixing up the play calling. Creating mismatches. And... heaven forbid, throwing the ball to the middle of the field! Seems like most of our passes are to the sidelines.
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All-Conference [424]
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Re: It's CRAZY that BC had wide open WRs & TEs all night, but...
Oct 7, 2021, 6:49 PM
[ in reply to It's CRAZY that BC had wide open WRs & TEs all night, but... ] |
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we couldn't get separation if our life depended on it.
It can't be PLAYERS b/c nobody will convince me that BC has better WR talent than we do. It has to be scheme/playcalling.
On defense we live and die with the blitz. That is BV’s M. O. “Pressure breaks pipes” Well when we blitz and don’t get pressure fast enough, guess what. Someone is going to be open. This is why you see teams have so much success with tight ends against us and why wrs are open across the middle of the field sometimes. BV loves to blitz the LB and run stunts. Which is actually preferable to me most of the time anyways. As much as I love our LB’s they are kind of a liability in pass coverage.
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Orange Blooded [4447]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 10:24 AM
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We had this same situation in the past but the QB threw the ball out there on time and our receivers made a play You are not always going to have uncovered receivers DJ is afraid to throw to a receiver many times unless they are uncovered Not going to happen in college football much
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CU Medallion [58377]
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I see refs ignoring the holding and grabbing of our WRs
Oct 6, 2021, 11:23 AM
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on every play, just like here. Having said that, other teams, even teams with much less talented WRs (who are going up against our NFL DBs), get their guys open with relative ease. It's amazing.
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110%er [6654]
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~this~ I see refs ignoring the holding and grabbing,,,
Oct 6, 2021, 2:58 PM
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Same thing at NC State and GaTech
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Orange Blooded [4447]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 12:18 PM
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We had this same situation in the past but the QB threw the ball out there on time and our receivers made a play You are not always going to have uncovered receivers DJ is afraid to throw to a receiver many times unless they are uncovered Not going to happen in college football much
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All-In [44000]
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So why can’t our receivers get open?
Oct 6, 2021, 12:25 PM
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We have plenty of highly recruited receivers. They are all very good athletes. They should be able to get open, assuming they are running the proper routes.
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Orange Blooded [4447]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 12:27 PM
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I see two receivers he could have thrown to but just like high school he is waiting for someone to be out there alone Not going to happen that is why we have the receivers we have they are supporting to make those plays if you get them the ball at the right time in the right place The receivers are getting discouraged because the ball is not getting to them to make a play
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All-In [44000]
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Our QB shouldn't have to make a perfect pass into coverage
Oct 6, 2021, 1:51 PM
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in order for us to complete passes.
Our receivers should be able to get open.
We have a great defense, yet opposing receivers seem to have no problem getting open against us.
If other teams with less offensive talent can move the ball on our vaunted defense, then our offense should be able to move the ball on opposing defenses.
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Legend [17529]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 12:29 PM
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Coaching. Run to the open field. Go low to the ground like DW4 and tight end did back in the day. It worked.
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Orange Blooded [4086]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 12:49 PM
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It was an RPO where he was only allowed to pass to the Tight End and was told to eat it if the TE was covered.
We didn't want to stop the clock with an incomplete pass.
Might not like the play call but DJ executed it and did what he was told to do.
Does the scheme get the WR open or is it individual effort?
The talking heads are saying our scheme is bad but it's been compensated for by superior talent.
We had a whole bunch of games the last couple of years we won with superior talent and then lost when we faced more talented teams and our team did not play their A game and make spectacular catches.
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Orange Blooded [2025]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 12:50 PM
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Good eye. But I don’t this is unusual for Clemson’s offense. The are five differences this year…
1. Lacking a mobile QB who can tuck it and run when noddy is open.
2. In the past, lots of catches were 50/50 balls that our receivers were good enough to win 80% of the time.
3. QB lacking ability and confidence to throw that 50/50 ball where his receiver had the best chance to come down with it.
4. Missing that elusive slot receiver who could always get open.
5. Missing RB who can run routes and catch out of the backfield.
To me, the biggest issue is our offensive play calling and design. We have rarely had wide open receivers like you see with other elite teams. That’s on TE. I think he is a lazy, incompetent OC. Very little creativity and a general lack of complex play design. He is no Lane Kiffen or Steve Sarkesian. He is the worst OC to have made it to the CFP.
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Orange Blooded [3507]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 6, 2021, 1:12 PM
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Yeah, but he does this when there are receivers open too. When he turned his back and waited for NC State defenders to sack him, I was done with DJ.
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All-TigerNet [10855]
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Each defender has his arm around our receiver
Oct 6, 2021, 1:47 PM
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As Dabo tried to point out all game long.
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110%er [6654]
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Third and short, our running going well, why pass
Oct 6, 2021, 3:02 PM
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RB off tackle or fake with DJ going up middle - WE HAVE MORE POWER THAN SPEED, USE IT!
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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Perhaps this a symptom of today’s youth, too much video games and not enough exercise ?
Oct 6, 2021, 3:23 PM
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You know, out of shape. Basic stuff like catching a ball is a great athletic feat and so on.
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Orange Blooded [2454]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 7, 2021, 7:16 AM
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Bad play to use as an example.... last play of the game. DJ was never going to throw anything. His only job was to get tackled inbounds, not throw it or not fumble it. I see where you are going, but hell was going to freeze over before DJ was going to throw any pass on that play.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 7, 2021, 7:55 AM
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I need a bigger screen shot of the field but looks like he could throw open all 3 with the right ball with the right ball placement.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 7, 2021, 6:34 PM
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Because it was 3rd and long probably. That's pretty common when they know you are passing in that situation late in the game. Our guys haven't been separating, but don't use that pic as a gauge. That's par for the course in that situation, unless you have a Mike Williams or Hopkins who will just go up and take it. They were covered just like that as well in those situations.
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 7, 2021, 8:22 PM
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The problem is 5 guys in coverage on 3 receivers. We put ourselves in must-throw situations that invite this.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Maybe this is a big part of our offensive woes?
Oct 7, 2021, 8:34 PM
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Exactly
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Legend [16207]
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