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Heisman Winner [137748]
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All-In [30804]
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I’ve met plenty that talk the talk***
May 14, 2022, 5:26 PM
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All-TigerNet [10866]
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amazing how fast the race becomes the issue when the
May 14, 2022, 5:27 PM
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shooter is white
White supremacists exist just like black supremacists. Both are exceedingly rare. Blaming absolutely everything on white people isn't helping.
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All-In [26880]
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Dude posted a Great Replacement, white supremacist
May 14, 2022, 5:40 PM
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screed before killing so....kinda take the opportunity to sit this one out my dude.
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110%er [7049]
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Re: Not PC, but CharlestonTom spoke the (unpopular) truth
May 14, 2022, 8:49 PM
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Nothing that CharlestonTom said is untrue.
Why does the truth have to be considered as inappropriate on TNet?
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All-In [26880]
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I'm not arguing this.
May 14, 2022, 9:10 PM
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You can choose to deny the growing white nationalism element in the GOP, you can recognize the problem it presents and do something about it.
If you don't see it, it's not worth debating.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I'm not arguing this.
May 14, 2022, 9:37 PM
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110%er [7049]
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Re: I'm not arguing this.
May 14, 2022, 9:54 PM
[ in reply to I'm not arguing this. ] |
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Without actual data that 'proves' the rise of white nationalism, I am of the belief that violent crimes perpetrated by individual white people are indeed on the rise. (I haven't done the research to prove my belief; this is just an opinion based various anecdote about what I hear and read.)
I also believe that some of this (incredibly misplaced and completely immoral) white violence is due to their perception that society is endeavoring to silence their voices and discount the value of their existence.
The 'cancel culture' environment has contributed to this tragic over-reaction. But nuts look for reasons to act nutty (or worse) and so too many of these white nuts are over-reacting & killing people.
As far a 'white nationalist' movement, I haven't seen any real data that suggests a coordinated 'movement.'
(*) The most active violent (largely) white group in America which seems to get mobilized by the 'leftist dog-whistle) appears to be Antifa.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I'm not arguing this.
May 14, 2022, 9:58 PM
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CU Medallion [58367]
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Ahhhhhh ... here we are.
May 14, 2022, 10:50 PM
[ in reply to I'm not arguing this. ] |
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"The growing white nationalism element of the GOP". That's what this is ultimately about. Creating and sustaining a narrative, for political purposes, associating white supremacist terrorists in particular and racists in general with the Republican party. Painting with the broadest possible brush, to create the impression that anybody who votes Republican is probably a racist who supports those things, and that only by voting for and supporting Democrats can one be on the "right" side and oppose racism and white supremacy.
And it's all a load of BS. Of course we have to crack down on white supremacy groups that are involved in violence and terrorism, but trying to pin it on Republicans (I'm not one) is shameless and doesn't do anything to address the real problem.
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All-In [42000]
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Maybe...
May 16, 2022, 8:12 AM
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Those Republicans, the majority of them, who AREN'T like that need to do more to purge their party of the white nationalists instead of making continued excuses about them and blaming the media.
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All-In [31830]
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I think that's a big stretch...the shooter was clearly...
May 16, 2022, 8:15 AM
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a white nationalist nut job. Making the leap to the GOP is a huge leap with little-to-no tie at this point.
The shooter was 18 years old and likely seriously disturbed. Trying to make a political tie with no more to the story is, at best, a distraction...and in reality I'm seeing way too many media types trying to make political hay out of this.
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All-In [40868]
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An election is coming
May 16, 2022, 8:19 AM
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all Republicans are racist. The proof is an 18 yr old whack job killed 10 people.
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All-In [42000]
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Re: I think that's a big stretch...the shooter was clearly...
May 16, 2022, 9:13 AM
[ in reply to I think that's a big stretch...the shooter was clearly... ] |
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I concur; I was speaking more to Smiling's comment for overall. Over the last few years, the GOP has attracted this element whether they want to admit it or not, and that was over Trump. The majority of GOPers aren't like this and need to do more to distance themselves.
Message was edited by: Catahoula®
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Legend [19881]
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So, you think this 18 yr old voted GOP the last few years?
May 17, 2022, 1:53 AM
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Am I missing some new voting law change that was enacted recently? I thought that only happened when Dims want to rig an election.
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All-In [40868]
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well he did say that the majority of Republicans
May 17, 2022, 5:33 AM
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are not 18 year old homicidal maniacs. Sure many are, but not the majority. We should just assume that this mass murderer is a pub because, well, it fits our agenda.
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All-In [42000]
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I did not say this
May 17, 2022, 7:48 AM
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You know I didn't say this. Your post it dumb. As are most of them.
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All-In [40868]
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Re: I did not say this
May 17, 2022, 8:36 AM
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I concur; I was speaking more to Smiling's comment for overall. Over the last few years, the GOP has attracted this element whether they want to admit it or not, and that was over Trump. The majority of GOPers aren't like this and need to do more to distance themselves.
Message was edited by: Catahoula®
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All-In [42000]
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110%er [7049]
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Re: amazing how fast race becomes issue: ChasTom is correct
May 14, 2022, 8:47 PM
[ in reply to amazing how fast the race becomes the issue when the ] |
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Who can deny your observation here?
Sure, white people commit crimes (and plenty of gruesome ones).
Sure, black people commit crimes (and plenty of gruesome ones).
But we've all learned that when the media is silent about the race of the criminal in question, then the overwhelming odds (as those who follow the crime after the media buzz has moved on) proves that the 'unidentified' criminal is a non-white (and most commonly black).
If the truth is racist, then lies are not racist.
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All-TigerNet [10866]
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Re: amazing how fast race becomes issue: ChasTom is correct
May 14, 2022, 11:49 PM
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Besides, real crime stats are decidedly lopsided when it comes to interracial crime
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110%er [7049]
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Re: amazing how race becomes issue: ChasTom correct again
May 15, 2022, 11:09 AM
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You've nailed it as far as the soft bigotry of the left.
Instead of calling out the terrible black on black crime situation and then getting serious about fixing it, the liberals choose instead to virtue signal by not calling this out. Even worse, in recent times the phony 'racial justice warriors' among both the white and blacks fight like mad to get violent black criminals out on bail; these terrible criminals then go on to harm more black people.
But none of this matters to the 'racial justice' phonies; they will either profit from it (political office or being appointed to a gov't job by race-baiter politicians) or the Negro-phobic white liberals can then go back to their all-white private lives and talk among their all-white friends about how much they care about black people.
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All-In [31830]
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What? Race is the issue here because the SHOOTER...
May 16, 2022, 8:17 AM
[ in reply to amazing how fast the race becomes the issue when the ] |
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said it was the issue. I'm not sure who in the heck TU'd your post, but what you're saying is ridiculous given the facts here.
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Orange Blooded [3994]
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Re: What? Race is the issue here because the SHOOTER...
May 16, 2022, 8:19 AM
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Just let him continue on with his white grievance ramblings.
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CU Medallion [58367]
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Who said white supremacists are a media creation?
May 14, 2022, 6:05 PM
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Because that's easily disprovable, unless every single media report of the existence of any white supremacist is a total fabrication. I mean, don't some white supremacists operate proudly and in the open? Why would there be any dispute as to their existence?
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All-In [26880]
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Tom came pretty close above to essentially saying that.***
May 14, 2022, 6:07 PM
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CU Medallion [58367]
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False.
May 14, 2022, 6:41 PM
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That's your interpretation, but he clearly says that white supremacists do exist, but are extremely rare, which is true, and very, very different from saying that white supremacists don't exist, which would have to be true if they were a media creation as to OP claims.
White supremacists exist.
They are exceedingly rare, especially the ones that go on killing sprees.
White supremacists are not a media creation.
All of that is true.
"White suprmacists are a media creation".
That is false. No one here is claiming that. I'm just asking who is.
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All-In [26880]
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Mass shooters are rare.
May 14, 2022, 6:55 PM
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White supremacists are very common. They're in local to federal government. They're elected to Congress. They're very much a part of the MAGA/Alt Right/Populist movement in the GOP right now. That is true.
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CU Medallion [58367]
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Are we using the common definition of white supremacists
May 14, 2022, 7:39 PM
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meaning people who think the white race is inherently superior to other races and should therefore be in control of them? Because I don't know of any people in congress who hold that belief, and neither do you. Also, in 62 years of living in the south, I have certainly known a few people who held those beliefs, but it was when I was much younger (30+ years ago) and I don't currently know any, even though know they exist.
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All-TigerNet [10866]
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According to these people, anyone who isn’t a commie is a
May 15, 2022, 12:07 AM
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White supremacist.
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All-TigerNet [12988]
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Re: Mass shooters are rare.
May 14, 2022, 9:00 PM
[ in reply to Mass shooters are rare. ] |
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Name the white supremacists in congress, please. I’ll wait.
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Lot o points [155581]
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: False.
May 15, 2022, 9:54 AM
[ in reply to False. ] |
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White supremacists are not "exceedingly rare". A fairly significant chunk of the incarcerated white population belongs to the Aryan Brotherhood and it percolates out from there.
Check out a lot of white dudes with prison tats and a lot of them are going to have those telltale teardrops on the face, those double lightning bolts or "AB" symbols - usually on the neck - or those "1488" tattoos on their knuckles. (I learned to do this reflexively...back when I bounced, the vets always taught the young guys what to look for, especially with gang/prison tats, because it told you a lot about if you were dealing with just one guy and if he was a serious criminal...or if he might have buddies nearby who would jump in on you without a second thought.)
There's a lot more of that junk around than most people see. Play Tattoo Bingo in a Wal-Mart sometime and you'll see a lot more than you realized if you look for it.
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CU Medallion [58367]
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They exist, and they are a problem. It's a sick, unamerican
May 15, 2022, 11:25 AM
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ideology that cannot be ignored. We absolutely must address it as a country. I am all for doing so immediately and aggressively. One white supremacist is one too many.
Be sure you understand me there.
I still maintain that true white supremacists are exceedingly rare, meaning that they make up a tiny percentage of the overall white population. I have no numbers, no official stats, but based on personal experience, like I say I grew up working middle class in the south and lived here all of my life. When I was a kid in the early 1960s, the "N" word was common and accepted. I witnessed a public cross-burning by the KKK. Schools were segregated. Black people rode in the back of the bus and sat in the balcony in our local movie theatres. Black people were not allowed to drink directly from the water fountain in my great uncle's plumbing supply store; instead they had to drink from a ladle that hung on the wall. In those days, I probably knew a lot of true white supremacists. But man, thankfully all of those things changed almost overnight, and when I was in 4th or 5th grade schools were integrated and I grew up with black friends and receiving a very different message - in school, on tv, from politicians, and at home: we were all created equal and we were all the same on the inside; color should not matter. Unity, brotherhood, love and respect for each other regardless of race or color. The racists and bigots did not go away overnight, but gradually, hearts and minds changed and most of the hard core racists died off and/or went away. Not completely of course, that may never happen, but in my lifetime, we've come a million miles.
Now, in 2022, I don't know a single person who supports segregation or separate water fountains for black people. I don't know a single person who believes that white people are a superior race who should rule the world. In my work, I am in frequent contact with workers in the construction trades. Ex-cons and rednecks are not that uncommon. Granted, they may be underground, hiding their true intentions, but I don't run into any who express white supremacist sentiments, much less identify as such. So yes, I maintain that they are exceedingly rare; they are the fringe. Relative to people who believe in racial harmony and a world where we race and color don't matter, these kooks are a tiny minority, and they are going to lose.
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All-In [40868]
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uh very few, very very few belong to the AB
May 16, 2022, 5:39 AM
[ in reply to Re: False. ] |
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race fighting is only in maximum security prisons, or you will end up there if you start in the lower levels. The Aryan Brotherhood is very small. There are a lot of other white gangs, but the AB is small. In some maximum security prisons you have no choice but to join a gang based on your race, which means there are a lot more black and hispanic gang members then there are white gang members.
Most inmates are not in maximum security and will get out of prison.
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Lot o points [155581]
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Former bouncer here too. Teardrop isn't an AB sign.
May 16, 2022, 10:53 AM
[ in reply to Re: False. ] |
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It usually is supposed to signify that you've killed someone, or as I just regrettably learned from looking it up to make sure I wasn't wrong, can also mean that you've been prisonraped and were tattooed by the one who done ya.
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110%er [7049]
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Re: Tom came pretty close above to essentially saying that.***
May 14, 2022, 8:51 PM
[ in reply to Tom came pretty close above to essentially saying that.*** ] |
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Nah ... ChasTom said nothing that wasn't completely true.
It's awkward for Americans to acknowledge this, but attentive and honest Americans privately know this is the PC way that we've come to embrace.
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110%er [7049]
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All-In [42000]
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I believe 19B was being intentionally hyperbolic...
May 15, 2022, 3:05 PM
[ in reply to Who said white supremacists are a media creation? ] |
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But some here have argued in the past that they really aren't that prevalent, they're not a real danger, and the media have blown them out of proportion.
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Lot o points [155581]
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I’ll argue in the present that
May 16, 2022, 12:32 AM
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They aren’t that prevalent and that the media has blown them out of proportion.
It would be silly though to say that the ones that do exist can’t be dangerous—of course they can, especially if they suffer from the mental illnesses that go hand in hand with extremist positions.
If this group is to be believed (link below—decidedly not a right wing group), there were 9 white supremacist related killings in 2020, with 4 of those being prison gang related deaths.
Obviously even one of these is pretty senseless, and I’m certainly not going to trivialize the 10 that just happened, but just being real about it, black people in the US should feel pretty comfortable that they aren’t going to die at the hands of a white supremacist. In fact, it’s roughly the same as the number of people who die annually from vending machines falling on them (8 on average).
The difference is the poor sap being snuffed out by a Lance machine doesn’t make the 24 hour news cycle for 4 or 5 days.
https://www.adl.org/murder-and-extremism-2020
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All-In [42000]
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Except that...
May 16, 2022, 8:09 AM
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The stat about who has committed the most domestic terrorism since 9/11 is pretty damning. Your argument isn't the same as some have lobbied in here; you at least acknowledge a problem.
And while I get your vending machine stat, vending machines also aren't trying to turn America into a snacks-only authoritarian state.
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Lot o points [155581]
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Again, 9 white supremacist deaths total in a year.
May 16, 2022, 9:19 AM
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5 if you take out prison violence. 7 more non-white supremacist but anti-govt deaths for a total of 16 deaths this group calls right-wing affiliated—-in a year. And the stats have been decreasing annually.
In a country of 330M that’s the definition of statistically insignificant if you’re trying to determine if there’s a problem. There isn’t.
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All-In [42000]
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Re: Again, 9 white supremacist deaths total in a year.
May 16, 2022, 9:22 AM
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But when we examine terrorism, that IS a problem. It can't be coupled against other random acts of violence or statistical deaths. Terrorism has a far more specific goal, and demands more attention when acts of it spring up on our homeland. Those guys have a sinister goal for our nation; they aren't like the two punks on the street who get into an argument.
So, statistically, do I have a chance of being a victim from it? Not likely. But as long as it isn't given very serious attention and extra scrutiny, I would wager those chances grow.
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Lot o points [155581]
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I still find the "terrorism" moniker a little inflated, but
May 16, 2022, 10:48 AM
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statistically speaking, if it is, it's the most ineffective terrorism ever.
I find the claims that white supremacism is growing by any meaningful metric to already be dubious, but when it's wound in with an attempted dammning tie to the GOP, it's really gone off the partisan rails.
White supremacy might be getting more coverage than any point in recent history, but you'll have an extremely difficult time convincing me that this country isn't the least racist it's ever been in its history, and gets less and less racist with every passing year. A few fringe nuts (some committed to their cause, and most just mentally ill) who will always exist don't change that, and they certainly don't have control, much less influence, upon any political party.
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All-In [42000]
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Hold up, how are we not gonna call this terrorism?
May 16, 2022, 11:33 AM
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Killing people in public because of racial issues isn't a form of terrorism?
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Lot o points [155581]
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It meets the definition of terrorism, but if you want to
May 16, 2022, 11:55 AM
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stick just to literal meanings of the term, so does leaving a bag of flaming dog poo on your neighbor's porch to get them to stop their dog pooping in your yard.
This feels like the ultimate worst case expression of schizophrenia and mental illness moreso than a rational person with rotten beliefs. No way of knowing, but from what I read he sounds like the kind of person who, if it wasn't for WRT, would have gotten wrapped around the axle on another topic.
When a psychopathic schizophrenic goes on a killing spree, how I consider the person and their motives isn't much different from how I attempt to comprehend a deranged person ranting on a street corner----it's a mentally broken person doing mentally broken things. Their rationale truly doesn't matter to me because I'm a rational person and it's a meaningless exercise to try and apply rational logic to an irrational person. They're off the deep end...that's why they ultimately did what they did.
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All-In [42000]
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I think I'm gonna have to stop...
May 16, 2022, 2:20 PM
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When you put this incident and a flaming bag of dog #### in the same "literal definition" of terrorism. C'mon, man.
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Lot o points [155581]
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Thank you
May 16, 2022, 3:23 PM
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I assume that means the rest of the post was impossible to contradict.
Pee ess….the dog poo was hyperbole….an attempt to show the absurdity of using words loosely and taking them to the limits of their definitions. This was first and foremost a mass shooting. Just my opinion that I don’t expect you to share, but I think overusing the word terrorism for random acts of violence ultimately just dilutes the term.
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All-In [42000]
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Nah...
May 17, 2022, 7:50 AM
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I assume that means the rest of the post was impossible to contradict.
I just can't go any further after that dog poo thing. C'mon.
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Lot o points [155581]
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Ok boo.***
May 17, 2022, 7:51 AM
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Name 1 person that says white supremacists
May 14, 2022, 6:08 PM
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Don't exist?
I'll wang up and listen
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Remember, white supremacists are a media creation since
May 14, 2022, 7:00 PM
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Legend [18003]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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LOL Think Tank***
May 14, 2022, 8:43 PM
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110%er [7049]
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Re: NYT / W.Supremacist: Not subscriber - - Pls list top 10
May 14, 2022, 8:57 PM
[ in reply to This is why the Government is so focused on them... ] |
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Not willing to subscribe to read the article.
Would you be so kind as to list those terrorist attacks which white terrorists had coordinated?
Rather than say 'there are too many to list, so I won't list them' just choose the top 10 (with date for each terrorist attack), and the rest of us can look them up via other sources.
Thanks.
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Legend [18003]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: Best I can do:
May 15, 2022, 9:48 PM
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110%er [7049]
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Joined: 10/6/21
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Re: Best I can do: Belated thank you.
May 15, 2022, 10:00 PM
[ in reply to Best I can do: ] |
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Sorry to not get back to you earlier.
Thanks for the link and the info.
I'll do what I can to corroborate / get context if I can.
Best regards,
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All-In [34518]
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Joined: 4/20/01
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110%er [7049]
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Joined: 10/6/21
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Re: Remember, white supremacists are a media creation since
May 14, 2022, 10:08 PM
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Dear 19B® and deroberts, if you return to the white supremacists are media creation post, then please come back and read CaptCrash's post, and especially the link.
Darryl E. Brooks, killer in the Nov. 2021 Christmas celebration in Wisconsin ... is there any mention of his race in the article? Maybe I missed it.
If not, then why not? Did NBC News just 'forget' to include that in the article?
Was NBC News covering up for the fact that this was a white guy, and was trying to keep the article as 'race neutral' because they wanted to focus on the deed instead of the demographics?
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Lot o points [155581]
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Joined: 5/6/13
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SUV’s have no race, and the article makes clear
May 15, 2022, 12:20 AM
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That an SUV drove into the crowd. The man is irrelevant. He was just along for the ride.
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Heisman Winner [111292]
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Joined: 9/10/03
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Maybe he needs to be told that white people
May 14, 2022, 10:21 PM
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are, always have been, and always will be a minority on this planet.
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Hall of Famer [24670]
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Joined: 7/31/10
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Color is irrelevant... unless you don't have one...???***
May 14, 2022, 10:37 PM
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110%er [7049]
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Joined: 10/6/21
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All-TigerNet [10866]
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After reading about this incident and the guy’s joke of a
May 15, 2022, 12:05 AM
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Manifesto, I’m going to say there is about a 70% chance this was all setup by the fbi.
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All-In [26880]
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Q has turned your brain into mush.***
May 15, 2022, 9:19 AM
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All-TigerNet [10866]
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Bookmark this for 6 months from now.***
May 15, 2022, 9:22 AM
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All-In [42000]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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All-In [31830]
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All-In [34486]
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Joined: 8/30/19
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All-In [42000]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38145
Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: Remember, white supremacists are a media creation since
May 16, 2022, 9:12 AM
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Moments like this become painful on this board. There aren't defenses of this, but there seems to be too much of a scramble to "but.. but..." Really, shouldn't this be a moment when everyone here agrees this is horrible and something needs to be done to stop it? This psycho isn't on anyone's "side" here; I don't label him a Republican or a typical Trumpist anymore than I'd label an Antifa person as a typical Dem.
What's sad is what's coming next. We'll get "Look, black person doing something bad!" posts from Clem_chem and NC_Tiger. Or folks will start tossing around crime stats on African Americans to counter. Again, as if this is some sort of contest. That's the sad reality that's coming to this board.
I hope I'm proven wrong.
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Lot o points [155581]
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Moments like this are painful.
May 16, 2022, 10:50 AM
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Using a despicable criminal act of violence to attempt to dunk on a strawman argument that no one seems to have made is very painful, and it puts people on the back foot and sets the quality of the discourse that follows.
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All-In [42000]
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If you're calling 19B's post a strawman...
May 16, 2022, 11:34 AM
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It isn't. People here have made the argument on a less hyperbolic level.
If something in my post is a straw man, please let me know what it is.
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Lot o points [155581]
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LOL, the fact that it's hyperbolic is what makes it
May 16, 2022, 11:59 AM
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a strawman argument.
If you say "A few members of the GOP are white supremacists" and I respond by saying "I'll just leave this picture of Tim Scott here, since I've heard some of you say that ALL members of the GOP are white supremacists", it's both hyperbolic, and a strawman argument.
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