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110%er [6322]
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Am I being hyperbolic
Dec 6, 2021, 8:08 AM
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This feels like the defining moment for the program over the next decade
The next DC, and possibly OC, have to be homerun hires. This year showed that we can't simply run the tables through the ACC solely off superior talent. Coaching matters. Schemes matter. Development matters. I know Dabo has more knowledge about the staff than all of us combined, but is anyone comfortable with Streeter as our OC? I'm not. Deshaun, Trevor, and DJ showed no progression under Streeter. Mike Reed and Todd Bates as DC/Co-DC's sounds good, but neither of them are Venables. Dabo has been reluctant to use the portal, we offer kids late, and continue signing small classes while so much talent transfers elsewhere.
It just feels like the rest of the 2020s are going to be impacted in this moment. We either become the next Florida State or we continue to be an elite program. Dabo has given every reason for us to trust him up to this point. So I'm going to remain optimistic and assume that he will make the best decision. Go Tigers!
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All-In [30766]
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if u can survive the West and the fear the thumb years
Dec 6, 2021, 8:10 AM
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then you can handle anything
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110%er [6322]
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Re: if u can survive the West and the fear the thumb years
Dec 6, 2021, 8:12 AM
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Are you sure?
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All-In [30766]
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92.4% sure***
Dec 6, 2021, 8:42 AM
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Orange Blooded [2842]
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Re: Am I being hyperbolic
Dec 6, 2021, 8:21 AM
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Leon they are gonna come for you. But you are exactly right. I stated yesterday, Dabo’s legacy is going to be defined by how we go from here. At this moment he is Bobby Bowden of Clemson, but is he chasing the GOAT that is Saban?
I love having great culture, but hiring great coaches from outside and having a great culture aren’t mutually exclusive. If the wrong hires are made and we don’t rise back to the top of the ACC rather quickly the SEC spin is going to be that Dabo can’t do it without Brent Venables who is now at Oklahoma headed to the SEC (this narrative will be EVERYWHERE if Venables is pretty successful). That is going to negatively affect recruiting. When these things start compounding and you add in NIL, it could be hard to overcome.
I am with you on trusting Dabo, if anyone can make this look easy. It’s him.
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Legend [19567]
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Except he's 25 years younger***
Dec 8, 2021, 8:42 AM
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Head Coach [785]
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Re: Am I being hyperbolic
Dec 8, 2021, 9:12 AM
[ in reply to Re: Am I being hyperbolic ] |
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Tigerman, absolutely love your point about hiring great coaches from outside and having a great culture aren’t mutually exclusive. I’d like to think there are a lot of coaches who would want to be part of the Clemson experience. Open it up, bring good coaches into the fold, not limit the search to only those who are in house. I’m on the edge of my seat to see what Dabo does here with these DC and OC hires if TE takes a HC job.
OP has a good post and the fundamental question of where does Clemson as a program go from here is one I think a lot of us are wondering. I still think Clemson is better positioned than a lot of programs right now, in spite of the SEC media machine turning college football into boxing. The hiring Dabo does now and product on the field next season will be huge for how the program is perceived. I feel for Dabo in that he loves college football, loves what he does, and unfort college football is changing really fast right now, in several ways not for the better. I pray he finds the next 3-5 years fun and rewarding. We all have fun when Dabo is having fun. I always wondered about Saban leaving, Bama job being the strongest potential reason he’d leave. Now I wonder if it’s college football in general that’s a bigger threat.
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Orange Blooded [2842]
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Re: Am I being hyperbolic
Dec 6, 2021, 8:21 AM
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Leon they are gonna come for you. But you are exactly right. I stated yesterday, Dabo’s legacy is going to be defined by how we go from here. At this moment he is Bobby Bowden of Clemson, but is he chasing the GOAT that is Saban?
I love having great culture, but hiring great coaches from outside and having a great culture aren’t mutually exclusive. If the wrong hires are made and we don’t rise back to the top of the ACC rather quickly the SEC spin is going to be that Dabo can’t do it without Brent Venables who is now at Oklahoma headed to the SEC (this narrative will be EVERYWHERE if Venables is pretty successful). That is going to negatively affect recruiting. When these things start compounding and you add in NIL, it could be hard to overcome.
I am with you on trusting Dabo, if anyone can make this look easy. It’s him.
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110%er [6322]
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Re: Am I being hyperbolic
Dec 6, 2021, 8:27 AM
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Let them come. It's not like they will hire an assassin to kill me in Mexico with an ice pick.
But in all seriousness, I agree with you. Dabo either ends up as Bobby Bowden, or he continues chasing Saban. I am hoping for the latter. And if history tells us anything, Dabo changed the program with outside hires. Chad revolutionized the offense and Brent revolutionized the defense. Although I think we can get away with a promotion on defense (Reed and/or Bates), I believe that we would need a new mind on offense if Tony leaves. Dabo didn't replace Napier with an inside hire and he didn't replace Steele with one either. The last time our offense was struggling like this year, he went and got someone to come fix it.
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All-In [48152]
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Re: Am I being hyperbolic
Dec 6, 2021, 10:37 AM
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Can we on defense? My biggest concern is recruiting. Brent was our #1 recruiter after Scott left. I believe that both sides could continue the x and o's just fine. Although, and becoming more widespread with Trevor exposure, it's out there that street doesn't develop qbs. Right or wrong, that's the spin.
Recruitment, that's why I think we have to go outside. I know BV was great x/o guy but as OK said, they wanted him because of his recruiting prowess. With bv and js gone... How much of a hit can we withstand. ??? Afterall that's what happened at FSU. Their recruiting tanked and the coaches couldn't develop.
Anyway, thanks to all for these posts. I enjoy and learn hearing the different perspective.
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110%er [6322]
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Re: Am I being hyperbolic
Dec 6, 2021, 10:48 AM
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I think Reed and Bates are great recruiters as well. The question is whether they are as effective as a DC as BV, and I feel safe in assuming that the answer is "no". Recruiting won't fall off yet. Recruiting will start to dip once the defense shows that it isn't as good without BV.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Devil's Advocate
Dec 8, 2021, 9:19 AM
[ in reply to Re: Am I being hyperbolic ] |
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At the time Morris and Venables were hired Dabo didn't have the support staff/coaching network he has 10+ years later. I am with you that I think outside ideas are valuable and it is worrisome that so many of these guys have only known one collegiate home.
(Stephen A. Smith voice) HOWEVA, both the Morris and Venables hires were reactionary to on-field events with Spence and Steele not living up to the job. Not quite the same situation here. He's known this day was coming for several years and has had time to plan for it.
It's risky as all get out, and I have no idea if it will work but I don't think it's a direct allegory to the hiring of Chad and Brent.
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Orange Blooded [2750]
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Yes and no . . .
Dec 6, 2021, 8:30 AM
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I do think this is a defining moment. But I don't think the dichotomy is the one you cited. I don't think the options are between continued elite status and "the next FSU." FSU has been just **bad** as of late. If the decisions here aren't right, then I think it could be the difference between continued elite status (virtually perennial playoff contention, ACC championships, 11+ win seasons, etc.) vs. us being merely say, top 15-20 team.
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110%er [6322]
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Re: Yes and no . . .
Dec 6, 2021, 8:36 AM
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FSU hasn't been bad because their talent fell off over night. It was a process that took a few years. They became bad because they hired bad coaches after Jimbo left, which then led to their talent falling off. My worry is that we replace Brent, and possibly Tony, with inside hires that aren't as good as either of them. That is how you become the next FSU. Elite talent with inferior coaching and inferior schemes. Then as we struggle to get back to the top of the ACC, the elite recruits start committing to other schools.
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Orange Blooded [2750]
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I think FSU's problems were worse than that
Dec 8, 2021, 8:37 AM
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Sure, if Dabo makes the wrong hires, it could stunt our growth, and we could end up suffering for it. I agree to that extent. But I don't think we'd fall *as* far. FSU's problem was far worse than what we have going on (the prospect or concern of assistants that aren't top-notch). They had BAD head coaches that had no sense of vision and organization, not to mention weak, mousey, apologetic personalities. They were behind the8-ball before they started.
I don't put it past Dabo to make a bade decision . . . no one's perfect. But even if he weren't to hit a home run for an OC or DC, he's still a great HC himself and our culture and everything downstream from that wouldn't bottom out in the same way it did with FSU.
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Orange Blooded [3045]
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Re: Am I being hyperbolic
Dec 6, 2021, 8:33 AM
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I don't know how this may translate into being an OC but Streeter performed a miracle with Cole Stoudt for the bowl game in which we destroyed Oklahoma with Cole as the QB coach with no more than one month to affect the transformation. Watson was out having had surgery and Cole surprised everyone with a tremdous performance and the offence did not skip a beat.
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Lot o points [155706]
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That's literally the one noticeable thing Streeter did and
Dec 6, 2021, 8:37 AM
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it was as much calling the game to Stoudt's strengths as anything else. Kelly, Watson, Lawrence, DJ....their levels remained almost completely static from entering to leaving Clemson.
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110%er [6322]
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Re: Am I being hyperbolic
Dec 6, 2021, 8:38 AM
[ in reply to Re: Am I being hyperbolic ] |
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Streeter changed life for Cole Stoudt for one game. Then spent years not developing Deshaun, Trevor, and DJ. At least it was worth winning the Russell Athletic Bowl.
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Lot o points [155706]
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Don't forget Kelly B.***
Dec 6, 2021, 8:41 AM
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All-American [584]
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Re: Don't forget Kelly B.***
Dec 6, 2021, 8:57 AM
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Let’s also not forget who called plays against OSU last year.
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Orange Blooded [2025]
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Re: Am I being hyperbolic
Dec 6, 2021, 8:40 AM
[ in reply to Re: Am I being hyperbolic ] |
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Stout was Streeter’s only shining moment. DW, TL and DJ came in as elite QB’s. DW and TL did not advance their skills under Streeter, and DJ has regressed more than any QB in memory.
Streeter needs to go.
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Lot o points [155706]
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Look, worst case scenario, if it doesn't pan out
Dec 6, 2021, 8:36 AM
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Scalper tix are $15 again, Lot 2 passes will come with a $2500 IPTAY donation, the fire Marshall will stop worrying about crowding on the hill, and there will be zero lines and no waiting every spring at fan day.
Win-win
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Orange Blooded [2984]
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Re: Look, worst case scenario, if it doesn't pan out
Dec 6, 2021, 8:49 AM
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Hahahaha, honestly lol I used to go with my grandfather to the spring game and since he played for Clemson, we got to meet the players and get autographs over lunch after the game. Prior to getting the playoff run, I was able to get so many autographs from guys and it was amazing. Since then, loads and loads of people now come and it’s not even worth going to anymore! I’d definitely take the championships and notoriety over that, but at least I could return to that and enjoy speaking with the players.
Concession stand lines are the next upside lol
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All-In [43996]
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Re: Am I being hyperbolic
Dec 8, 2021, 9:01 AM
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Orange Blooded [2111]
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Re: Am I being hyperbolic
Dec 8, 2021, 10:39 AM
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Trevor, and DJ showed no progression under Streeter. This kind of stupidity is embarrassing. Trevor's QB rating improved every year he was at Clemson. His yards per attempt, completion percentage, and TDs per game increased every year. He was the number one overall pick. How many five star QBs never even get drafted? Deshaun threw 41 TDs his last year and was the 12th pick in the draft.
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