Tiger Board Logo

Donor's Den General Leaderboards TNET coins™ POTD Hall of Fame Map FAQ
GIVE AN AWARD
Use your TNET coins™ to grant this post a special award!

W
50
Big Brain
90
Love it!
100
Cheers
100
Helpful
100
Made Me Smile
100
Great Idea!
150
Mind Blown
150
Caring
200
Flammable
200
Hear ye, hear ye
200
Bravo
250
Nom Nom Nom
250
Take My Coins
500
Ooo, Shiny!
700
Treasured Post!
1000

YOUR BALANCE
Leggett is Clemson Baseball (long)
storage This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic
Replies: 13
| visibility 2,108

Leggett is Clemson Baseball (long)


May 6, 2015, 4:24 PM

OK, first of all a change needs to be made. The past few years have been on a decline. This year has been an embarrassment. Losing to Wofford, Furman, Presby, and Coastal is something that ought never to happen to Clemson Baseball. An even record at home is unacceptable, and we need to move in a different direction. My point here is that Leggett has done an amazing job of the 20+ years, and he by far gets a bad wrap for "destroying the program" and that Wilheilm was this amazing coach that that built a program that Leggett killed.

I have read that Clemson has been on the decline over the past 10 years. When looking at the stats, over the past 10 years, Clemson has made it to five "sweet 16's" advancing to the super regionals. i admit, the past three years have been atrocious, losing to Liberty twice in 2013, 0-2 and bar-b-que in Nashville last year, and not even making the tournament this season is unacceptable. that alone is enough to move in a different direction. HOWEVER, it is not like Wilheilm nailed his final 10 years as well.

Leggett in his last 10 years has made it to one final four, five "sweet 16's", and a win away from another. the 2012 weekend in columbia hurt, but Clemson played their absolute guts out and it just did not work out. i can't blame leggett or anyone else for the effort, but i realize that the last two years have not been nearly as hard played as the 2012 team. i get the decline.

but look at Wilhleim. He made it to only one CWS in his Last 10 years. in fact, he only made it to one CWS in his last 13 years. He won ZERO game in omaha between 1978 an 1993 (or 15 years), his last season as Clemson's Skipper. not even a CWS appearance between 1981 and 1990. in reality, he missed the tournament all together from1982 and 1986, after losing two at home in 1981. In the past 16 years, Leggett has made it to three CWS, Twice making it to the final four. Leggett absolutely trumps that, only missing the tournament twice in 21 years (including this season). I know the tournament has changed and more teams make it now then in 1981 to the tournament than the Wilhelm era, but fact remains Leggett has done a much better job of getting to the tournament and advancing while there. Once in the CWS, Leggett also has the Edge:

Wilheilm and Leggett have both made it tot the CWS 6 times. Bill Wilheilm went 4-12 during his six trips. Leggett scored a 8-12 record in Omaha. Twice as many wins as Wilheilm. though i get 0-4 record against SC puts a major damper on Leggett, he has come as close as any other Clemson coach to winning a National Championship over the past 16 years as any other Clemson coach minus Golf in 2003 and a final four appearance in soccer by Trevor Adair.

imagine that Clemson Football finished in the final 8 polls six times since 1994. Think about Clemson basketball, they finished in the elite 8 one time since 1980 (they have gotten to that point once in 100+ years of basketball), Clemson football finished in the top 8th exactly four times, 1978 (6th), 1981 (1st), 1982 (8th), 2013 (8th).

The idea that Leggett killed Clemson Baseball is laughable at best. he has upgraded what Wilheilm established and needs to be appreciated. Wilheilm won 43 games in the ncaa tournament in 35 years. Leggett has won 68 in 22 years.

I have always been an ardent Leggett supporter, and i absolutely hates that he is going out like this. My major point is that Clemson Baseball deserves the best. Leggett has been one for best coaches is Clemson history, no matter the sport. Not i want and feel obviously that a change needs to be made, my request is this: please respect Leggett as he is. He has been an amazing coach along the way, lets not rip him more then we need to.


if clemson sports, in any way shape or form, has been been as successful as clemson baseball, think we would all be happy. this year has sucked for clemson baseball, but is it all in leggett? (facilitates, scholarships, etc.) my point is to support leggett in the last couple of weeks of his tenure (he's done a hell of a job overall)....and lets get on board on whoever is next. GO TIGERS!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

ALL IN!!


Re: Leggett is Clemson Baseball (long)


May 6, 2015, 4:27 PM

No coach "is" any sport at Clemson.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

null


Re: Leggett is Clemson Baseball (long)


May 6, 2015, 4:37 PM

ClemTiger117 - I think you missed his point. He was simply stating that Leggett has done a good job over the years and we should give him some respect on his way out.

I am ready for change, too. I agree it has gone too far and we need change in our baseball leadership.

My dad played under Wilhelm and so obviously I have a ton of respect for Coach Wilhelm from my Dad's stories. That said, I think Jack took what Wilhelm built and made it even stronger (90's and through the 2000's) up until about 5 seasons ago when things started sliding.

Leggett has done a lot of good and deserves credit for 6 Omaha trips and some good wins out there. I have a ton of good memories of Clemson baseball games when I was a student from 1997-2002 and the baseball games were a blast! That was all Jack - Wilehlm had been retired for many years...

Leggett needs to retire gracefully. If not, Radakovich needs to send him out. But like this thread says, we should give Jack some props for what he HAS done, and not just bash him like he has done nothing.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

thanks, that is exactly my point!


May 6, 2015, 5:04 PM

Clemson Baseball is special. I've been very close involved in following the program since 1995 or so. Im not in anyway thinking that we need to stay with Leggett, but he has done amazing things at clemson and he has been thrown under the bus for "destroying" clemson baseball. i hate to hear that

that's not true in any shape or form. my basic point is that i simply want to appreciate what leggett has accomplished. as we move in a different direction, i just hate to see jack thrown under the bus when he has been one of the more successful coaches in clemson history.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

ALL IN!!


Re: Leggett is Clemson Baseball (long)


May 6, 2015, 4:28 PM

I'll give you positive but "former" needs to go in the title. I dont want him around after this year at Clemson in any capacity. Time to move on in a new direction. Just pay him his contract and cut the cord.

badge-donor-05yr.jpgringofhonor-74tiger.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

So....


May 6, 2015, 4:32 PM

Change needs to be made.

The past few years have been on a decline.

This year has been an embarrassment.

Losing to Wofford, Furman, Presby, and Coastal is something that ought never happen to Clemson Baseball.

An even record at home is unacceptable.

We need to move in a different direction, but...

Leggett didin't kill the program !?!?!

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-20yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: Leggett is Clemson Baseball (long)


May 6, 2015, 4:40 PM

in 19 of coach wilhelms years clemson made no, none, zero, nada, trips to the post season. no one is a bigger fan of wilhelm than me. he recruited my brother. but facts are facts. and back then it was clemson and no one else in the acc. wilhelm was acc baseball. coach hand picked leggett as his successor. he recruited most of the players he had when he took over. the ones that people say wilhelm handed to him on a platter. got a feeling most people that b!tch were not even born when wilhelm was here or have no memories of those times. there will be a change of some sorts, no doubt. seems that would be enough for some without the constant bashing. great post paws-itive.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Leggett is Clemson Baseball (long)


May 6, 2015, 5:29 PM

Biggest problem I have when people say this is the fact it was MUCH harder to make the post season then due to the size of the tournament....

You look at some of his winning percentages in years he did not make the tournament and those would have gotten him in today.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

null


Absolutely Correct


May 6, 2015, 6:22 PM

In Wilhelm's day there were no Regionals and Super Regionals. This is not a legitimate comparison. It drives me nuts when MLB announcers say so&so has a Major League record in post season play and compares them to Mantle, Ruth, & Gehrig. Sort of like comparing Coach K post season record against John Wooden's.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Leggett is Clemson Baseball (long)


May 6, 2015, 5:21 PM

The Clemson faithful fans do not really agree with your final conclusion statements.
I was appalled to see a virtual empty ballpark [and it is a nice one] on Monday PM when The Tigers hosted the # 3 ranked team in NCAA. That crowd was pitiful---worse than awful. Jack and this squad have managed to lose their fan base in a big way.

I was at Clemson when Bill W. was the coach and had he gotten the infrastructure that Jack has gotten, he would have owned the ACC. Jack has gotten phenomenal support from TDP & DR [as ADs] without improving his program. The Clemson fans are tired of seeing such an overmatched or unprepared Tiger team be taken down time and time again. It began in Omaha a few years back when Roth* took it to us multiple times. It may be talent or it may be coaching but whatever it is--it has to change at the conclusion of this season. Hopefully we suffer no more deep embarrassments between now and any appearance we make in Durham in 3 weeks.

If any Tiger fans have reservations for Omaha, I think I would shed those unless you just like the area.

*Roth--this lad from SC upstate wanted to go to Clemson. jack said no and lots of suffering occurred.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-20yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

yeah, we're the only team Roth took it to so that is


May 6, 2015, 6:06 PM

Definitely a valid criticism. And before you throw Leggett under the bus for not recruiting Roth how about remember that he was buried on the depth chart at USC and only pitched that game out of sheer desperation. The staff of his own school didn't even think he was very special so exactly why should Leggett.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Jstone D329 - “ It’s ok to want a coaching change”
Brownell @Clemson: 8 seasons ranked 50th or worse by Sports Reference’s SRS
1-29: Brad Brownell road record against ranked ACC opponents
142, 161, 294, 307, 293, 166, 225, 180, 260, 164, 141, 72, 68 - assist rankings amongst all D1 programs during Brownell's tenure


So if Clemson baseball sucks right now,


May 6, 2015, 5:43 PM

then Jack sucks right now? Okay, I agree.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Nice post. And I agree...


May 6, 2015, 5:51 PM

Jack has not killed the program. The facilities are night and day better than upon his arrival. The new facility under construction will attract recruits. The tradition is here, and so is the fan support.

Jack brought in numerous players I never thought Clemson could steal from the majors out of high school. What a pleasure to watch Khalil Greene, Jeff Baker, Tyler Colvin, Billy McMillon, Scott Winchester, Shane Monahan, Kris Benson, Billy Koch, Matt LeCroy, Ken Vining, Daniel Moskos, D.J. Mitchell, Brad Miller, Chris Dwyer, Dominic Leone and other future major leaguers brought to Clemson by Leggett.

Jack has my upmost respect, but much like Bobby Bowden, he stayed just a little too long. Clemson Baseball will be outstanding going forward, and much of the future success will be forever tied to Jacks' accomplishments at Clemson.

Those who don't believe this only need reference the legendary Frank Howard. Clemson Football was dismal his final several years. He never won a national title, but to quote a slogan coined by our own fans, "Howard Built It." The playing surface is named Frank Howard Field. Howard's name is on the Ring of Honor, and his name is synonymous with Clemson Football.

Howard is judged historically on his total body of work and Jack Leggett deserves the same going forward.

That's my opinion, and I'll take it to my grave.

Beginning and end of discussion for me.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Nice post. And I agree...


May 6, 2015, 6:48 PM

You are correct. The names you mentioned were "awhile" ago.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Replies: 13
| visibility 2,108
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic