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Replies: 64
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All-In [48078]
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Question for Trump supporters or people strongly leaning Trump.
Feb 4, 2020, 11:38 AM
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I know you think Trump is a lock, but what 2 Dem candidates do you think would be the biggest threat to beating Trump? Which 2 would you prefer Trump didnt face? I realize you think Trump is a lock, so aside from that fact.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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i think Trump gets beat actually.
Feb 4, 2020, 11:43 AM
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probably Biden or Bernie. Bernie has his locked in supporters. Biden will steal some independents.
Butt would do well too, butt the black vote would be small.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: i think Trump gets beat actually.
Feb 4, 2020, 11:48 AM
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I agree. If Pete were straight he would be solid. That black vote would sink him.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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I don't think Trump is a lock...
Feb 4, 2020, 11:43 AM
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I think Trump has shown to be an anomaly as far as polls.
Biggest challenges: Sanders and Buttigeig
Easiest to beat: Biden and Warren
Again, I am not thrilled with Trump as a person. I have no issue with most of his policies.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I don't think Trump is a lock...
Feb 4, 2020, 11:50 AM
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Yeah I think Biden is done. They say his funding is drying up too. As far as Pete, that guy might be able to win in another decade or so. He is young. I think like Xtiger stated, he won't get the black vote. I would enjoy the debates with him in it though.
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All-In [46786]
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I think what a lot of people are missing is Biden
Feb 4, 2020, 11:52 AM
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didn't really put a lot of effort into Iowa or NH. He is banking on his support in the South. If he can hold on until Super Tuesday he will be in good shape.
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CU Guru [1059]
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Re: I think what a lot of people are missing is Biden
Feb 4, 2020, 12:06 PM
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Never post here but my .02 cents.......
I would be a Trump voter today but do not consider myself a Trump "fan". Frankly, I think many Americans feel this way. Most simply dont want to "admit" to supporting Trump.
I am in finance and talk to many different people (rich, middle class, business owners, minorities, etc.) and the overwhelming majority are VERY happy with the economy and their retirement plans. Sure issues like healthcare, gay marriage, etc matter but BY FAR the number 1 issue is economy and how much money I have in my pocket.
The only way Trump wins is the economy. Our economy is booming, the jobless rate is very low (and among minorities), and peoples houses (in most of the USA) and 401k are at all time highs. THAT is what matters.
Now.....they one thing that Trump DOES NOT want is for oil prices (Iran/ME situation again) spiking up. Right now we are filling up our gas tanks at around $2ish/gallon and the LAST thing Trump needs is for us to be filling up at $4/gallon come election time.
Also, why do you think wants interest rates to be even lower than where the Fed has them set now? The only game in town right now id the stock market or dividend paying stocks. SO many people are tired of getting 1% in a savings account or 1.5% on a CD. Money flowing out of conventional savings and into the stock market and that is why we are setting all time highs. Also, most everyone has jobs and 401k participation is at an all time high. Common sense....each payroll cycle more money is being flooded into index/mutual funds therefore driving markets higher.
That said........I do not feel that any of the current Dems can beat Trump at current. Bernie would rally his base and perhaps others but he is WAY too far left to pull enough to beat Trump. I honestly fell that Hillary (gulp!) may have the best chance to beat Trump. Shoudl be an interesting 9 months.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I think what a lot of people are missing is Biden
Feb 4, 2020, 12:13 PM
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Well said. Then you add the Dems wanting loose borders and free medical for illegals. The Dems have their hands full if it were happening today. I dont like Trump, but I think he wins easily.
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All-In [46786]
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I agree. The only problem with that strategy
Feb 4, 2020, 12:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: I think what a lot of people are missing is Biden ] |
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is the stock market is so fickle, it may be hitting all time highs in November, or it could be down 800 points. That's not a good strategy to run a campaign on.
I also agree with the other poster. There are many voters who do not have 401K's and have nothing to do with the stock market.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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a couple of thoughts...
Feb 4, 2020, 11:54 AM
[ in reply to Re: I don't think Trump is a lock... ] |
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if economy continues to remain relatively strong and we continue to not have any huge issues internationally, that works in Trump's favor. He won't do it, but if he could be civil in the next few months it might help independents who don't like him personally.
If I were the dems, I would do all I could to Trigger him.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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That has been the Dems full time job***
Feb 4, 2020, 11:58 AM
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Trump would fit in well with some P&Rers***
Feb 4, 2020, 12:00 PM
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Trump would fit in well with some P&Rers***
Feb 4, 2020, 12:03 PM
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Big time. He would be a nice addition.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: That has been the Dems full time job***
Feb 4, 2020, 12:01 PM
[ in reply to That has been the Dems full time job*** ] |
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That's their goal and he usually bites. The bad part for the Dems is that Trump seems to enjoy the chaos.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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he is Brair Rabbit
Feb 4, 2020, 12:05 PM
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baiting them into his briar patch.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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He's a pig in mud.
Feb 4, 2020, 12:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: That has been the Dems full time job*** ] |
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He 'holds his own,' against the entire MSM. They really hate the guy and he uses them to stiffen his base. They attack him when they disrespect his wife and suggest he's sleeping with his daughter and say nasty things about his son.
I don't recall any president having to endure that. I'm not defending his nastiness. There's no justification for some of his personal attacks on people like McCain. I also understand why he attacks people who involve his family as they have.
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Standout [345]
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Re: He's a pig in mud.
Feb 4, 2020, 1:06 PM
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Wait, didn't he already disrespect his wife when he started paying other woman to sleep with him?
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: a couple of thoughts...
Feb 4, 2020, 12:01 PM
[ in reply to a couple of thoughts... ] |
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franc1968®
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a couple of thoughts...
Posted: Feb 4, 2020 11:54 AM
Reply
if economy continues to remain relatively strong and we continue to not have any huge issues internationally, that works in Trump's favor. He won't do it, but if he could be civil in the next few months it might help independents who don't like him personally.
If I were the dems, I would do all I could to Trigger him.
JUST WONDERING, WHY SHOULD HE EVEN TRY AND BE CIVIL WITH THE FAKE NEWS AFTER WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO HIM AND HIS FAMILY SINCE HE RODE DOWN THE ESCALATOR. THEY HAVE DONE EVERY THING IN THEIR POWER TO RUIN HIM. FUNNY THING IS THE DAY BEFORE HE CAME DOWN THE ESCALATOR HE WAS EVERYONES DARLING. FAKE NEWS LOVED HIM. SHARPTON AND HIS PEOPLE LOVED HIM. EVERYONE WANTED TO BE INVITED TO HIS PARTIES. AND GUESS WHAT, IN 5 YEARS EVERYONE WILL WANT TO GO TO HIS PARTIES AGAIN. IT IS A SHAME WHAT HAS BEEN DONE TO HIM.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: a couple of thoughts...
Feb 4, 2020, 12:06 PM
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I am not sure. I think most of his probs are self inflicted. I guess the more civil he is, the less probs he will have. He likes the attention though, he likes to rally his base, and he is supposedly insecure. Maybe he will mellow out in the 2nd term when he has no new election pending.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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The last four years are Trump being mellow.
Feb 4, 2020, 12:13 PM
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That guy is a real mess. He entertains like Don Rickles, insulting and humiliating everyone with or without reason.
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CU Guru [1059]
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Re: The last four years are Trump being mellow.
Feb 4, 2020, 12:25 PM
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Sure he is a "real mess" and isn't Presidential but guess what.............
When is comes election day that really doesn't matter. The ONLY thing that matters is our economy and our job market. THAT is what wins elections.
Like I said in an earlier post....I care about healthcare, gun control, etc but I REALLY care about my job, my 401k/retirement, my home price etc. Most Americans feel the same way and when they get in the election booth they will decide....you know what, I can tolerate 4 more years of crazy Tweets, childish remarks, etc a b/c I have a job, I am probably earning more money than I ever have, my 401k is at all time highs, etc.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: The last four years are Trump being mellow.
Feb 4, 2020, 12:30 PM
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True, but most Americans dont own homes or have 401ks with anything in them or much at all. The Dems angles is to play on that. The haves and the have nots.
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Oculus Spirit [80967]
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All-In [46786]
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Imagine how fast our economy would take off
Feb 4, 2020, 12:45 PM
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if people didn't have to worry about going bankrupt due to unforseen medical issues.
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Oculus Spirit [80967]
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Do you think worrying about that is keeping
Feb 4, 2020, 12:46 PM
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people from spending money?
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All-In [46786]
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No but having to pay 90K for open heart surgery
Feb 4, 2020, 12:47 PM
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with insurance would put a damper on anybody's budget.
Now multiply that out by number of major medical procedures done each day.
It's not a worry, it's a reality.
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Oculus Spirit [80967]
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How much is it worth to you monthly
Feb 4, 2020, 12:49 PM
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to make sure that your neighbors never have to pay for any healthcare issues, and just generally treat their bodies any way they wish, without having any penalties for doing so?
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All-In [46786]
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Like in another post, If my taxes went up $500 per paycheck
Feb 4, 2020, 12:54 PM
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1k per month, 12,000 per year, I would still come out ahead just after one doctor's visit.
Also, having taxes go into things that benefit society as a whole is much better than my taxes going into propping up big banks and wall street or the military industrial companies.
Unless of course you're a crusty old boomer who steps on everybody while trying to drain the most resources before he dies.
JFC
Message was edited by: FBCoachSC®
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Oculus Spirit [80967]
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lol...I love this logic.
Feb 4, 2020, 1:05 PM
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"Unless of course you're a crusty old boomer who steps on everybody while trying to drain the most resources before he dies."
You're getting it all in there. Hatred for the people before you, the resentment for where you are now, and for anyone doing better than you. Bravo!
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All-In [46786]
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It's not a hatred. It's more of a contempt
Feb 4, 2020, 1:10 PM
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for a generation who profited off the back of the greatest generation while scorching the earth for the future generation.
The philosophy of let me get mine before somebody else gets it.
While you have many other countries who understand products and policies that serve the public good.
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Oculus Spirit [80967]
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I have a friend that lives in Canada.
Feb 4, 2020, 1:14 PM
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Listening to him, I don't think I'd want the government in control of my healthcare, but you do you.
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All-In [46786]
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Yes it's killing people all over the world
Feb 4, 2020, 1:16 PM
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since every single developed country has it but us.
Can't make it work here though.
At least that's what Pfizer told me
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Oculus Spirit [80967]
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Did Pfizer tell you that, or Bernie and Liz?***
Feb 4, 2020, 1:21 PM
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All-In [46786]
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Have you done any research into it or are you going off
Feb 4, 2020, 1:25 PM
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of what your buddy in Canada said?
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Oculus Spirit [80967]
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I work directly in and with hospitals.
Feb 4, 2020, 1:31 PM
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Which part would you like some answers on?
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All-In [46786]
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Since you're an expert I (really would) love your
Feb 4, 2020, 1:35 PM
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take on the detriments UHC would cause the american people
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Oculus Spirit [80967]
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I'm not an expert on anything.
Feb 4, 2020, 2:02 PM
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But I've worked in an around healthcare and healthcare finance for and insurance for 20+ years.
Everyone I have ever spoken to regarding UHC says it will result in worse care, longer waits, and higher costs.
Doctors salaries will go down, so less Dr's will want to practice. That will result in longer waits for care.
Costs will increase because not only will there be less providers, there will be more people wanting more care. Costs will have to be cut, so there will be less administrators, resulting in longer waits and more mistakes in coding and subsequently less reimbursement.
KPI's won't be stressed as much (due to cost cutting and less administrators)so the quality of health care will lower ALS (avereage length of stay will go up) resulting in even higher costs.
If you want to see what the government does to healthcare, just look at the VA. Thats a pretty good example of what all healthcare would look like.
If you don't believe me or my friend in Canada next time you're spending $500 at your doctor, ask him what would happen.
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All-In [46786]
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Re: I'm not an expert on anything.
Feb 4, 2020, 2:12 PM
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As I said in a post yesterday, the scare tactics and platitudes are ridiculous. The data doesn't lie. UHC would cover more people, for less cost (that what our medical system pays now), while providing better service.
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Oculus Spirit [80967]
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Ask your doctor.
Feb 4, 2020, 2:20 PM
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I'm not going to change your mind, and thats fine. But see what he says.
His reimbursements are down now, and their costs have skyrocketed. You don't have to believe me, but at least believe the people who are providing the actual healthcare.
Or you can listen to politicians. Whichever.
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All-In [46786]
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You didn't read the peer reviewed article did you?
Feb 4, 2020, 2:23 PM
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Doctor's in Canada had the same fear. Turns out they get reimbursed the same as if it was private insurance and it's much more streamlined since it's not multiple different companies providing the reimbursement.
But sure, listen to what these doctors THINK will happen vs. data from countries that shows what actually happens
Message was edited by: FBCoachSC®
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Oculus Spirit [80967]
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lol...yeah don't believe the doctors.
Feb 4, 2020, 2:41 PM
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How would they know?
I know 3 or 4 Dr's that are getting squeezed so hard now that were there a serious threat to socialize medicine, they'd retire tomorrow.
But sure, that's just anecdotal.
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CU Guru [1059]
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Re: I'm not an expert on anything.
Feb 4, 2020, 2:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: I'm not an expert on anything. ] |
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UHC would cover far more people but to say that it would cost far less is laughable. As mentioned above just look at how the government handles VA. It is a joke but so is any other agency run by our government. Its comical.........
The problem with Healthcare is:
1. Insurance companies have WAY to much power/control. They really call the shots in what they cover, wont cover, etc. I think that is is ridiculous that only a certain number of insurance companies can provide services in each state. I heard that in SC only like 4 companies can offer HC? Why is that? Open up the borders and create competition. Easy way to force premiums/costs down.
2. I work for a small company. We have 40 full time employees so our census is Small and we get hammered when we price medical coverage. Why can't I partner my company with another company with a similar census to get better pricing? I venture to say that a finance firm (like mine) with 200 employees is paying probably 35-40% less in premiums than my employees are with only 40 employees.
3. Hospitals- very inefficient. If you are bored one day look at the "corporate structure" of any local hospital. You will see layer after layer of "bureaucracy". Its manager after manager after manager. Cut the fluff and cut costs.
4. Hospitals again.........I dont need to see marble flooring, elaborate art work, and grand pianos when I go get a procedure done. Who is paying for that?
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All-In [46786]
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CU Guru [1059]
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Re: I'm not an expert on anything.
Feb 4, 2020, 2:40 PM
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I am no expert on HC but I would like to ask you........
Please name ONE government run program that operates efficiently and economically? Just one please.
Again, I don't that Gov't control is the answer. I believe you go after the insurance companies (Cigna, UNH, etc) to remove their control and to create greater competition. Competition over time creates lower prices for the consumer.
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All-In [46786]
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Re: I'm not an expert on anything.
Feb 4, 2020, 2:46 PM
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police
fire
DOT
National Parks
and based on the data, healthcare
Message was edited by: FBCoachSC®
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CU Guru [1059]
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Re: I'm not an expert on anything.
Feb 4, 2020, 2:57 PM
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You are joking correct? I will give you National Parks. The others?
DOT- have you seen our roads, bridges, etc.
Police/Fire- my family is retired law enforcement. My dad was pretty high up and the mismanagement and "favors" that the police and local business people/supporters is laughable.
Off the top of my head what are the govt's largest benefits provided? In no order......
Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, etc.......how would you say our government manages those programs? Also, wouldn't UHC be much larger that those and you think that the gov't would UHC better?
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All-In [46786]
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Do you even history?
Feb 4, 2020, 2:59 PM
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there use to be private police forces and fire departments. They would end up fighting each other, or let your house burn down if you didn't pay them right there on the spot.
Also I think this comment chain is about to break the page.
Message was edited by: FBCoachSC®
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CU Medallion [59974]
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This has to be a 5 page troll
Feb 4, 2020, 3:09 PM
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cause if not, again, it’s sad that you teach children or are even allowed to teach Civics in High School.
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CU Guru [1059]
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Re: It's not a hatred. It's more of a contempt
Feb 4, 2020, 1:28 PM
[ in reply to It's not a hatred. It's more of a contempt ] |
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Your "claim" of people having to pay $90,000 for an open heart surgery or whatever.......I hate that and I am in a high deductible plan ($13k family) and pay about $1,000 a month for coverage. It stinks for sure.
Again, my point.......lets say you have 100 friends and family I would venture to say maybe 2-3 of those have medical bills that they cannot pay, too high high, whatever.......MAYBE 5% of 5 of your family and friends. Now.......
Same group of 100 family and friends.....would you say 90% or 90 of those are DIRECTLY affected by their jobs, our economy, gas prices, etc. Absolutely.
Again....the issues of gun control and outrageous medical cost/healthcare premiums IS a concern but it affects the overwhelming MINORITY if US citizens. Its fun to debate and for MSNBC, CNN, Fox, etc to talk about but it really has no day to day affect on our lives. Our economy does..........
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All-In [46786]
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The economy is a major factor in voting
Feb 4, 2020, 1:53 PM
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but the overall economy.
I think Trump and his campaign are putting way too much stock in 401k's and the stock market.
He really needs to be touting unemployment a lot more than the stock market.
But I would also counter that for those who are facing looming medical expenses that they can't pay, I highly doubt they give a #### about how well their 401K is doing.
Nobody should go bankrupt because they got cancer.
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All-In [48078]
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Oculus Spirit [80967]
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Who should be in charge of personal responsibility?***
Feb 4, 2020, 12:51 PM
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Who should be in charge of personal responsibility?***
Feb 4, 2020, 12:54 PM
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Probably the vast majority dont make enough to really have anything in there. The costs are high in this country and wages are low. Access means little if your pay is low.
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Oculus Spirit [80967]
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Wait until they get older and forced out of the workforce.
Feb 4, 2020, 1:22 PM
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They'e really gonna be fscked then.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: The last four years are Trump being mellow.
Feb 4, 2020, 12:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: The last four years are Trump being mellow. ] |
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egbbfb03
Head Coach [777]
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Re: The last four years are Trump being mellow. [3]
Posted: Feb 4, 2020 12:25 PM
Reply
Sure he is a "real mess" and isn't Presidential but guess what.............
When is comes election day that really doesn't matter. The ONLY thing that matters is our economy and our job market. THAT is what wins elections.
Like I said in an earlier post....I care about healthcare, gun control, etc but I REALLY care about my job, my 401k/retirement, my home price etc. Most Americans feel the same way and when they get in the election booth they will decide....you know what, I can tolerate 4 more years of crazy Tweets, childish remarks, etc a b/c I have a job, I am probably earning more money than I ever have, my 401k is at all time highs, etc.
DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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I think there are ways of combating attacks
Feb 4, 2020, 1:21 PM
[ in reply to Re: a couple of thoughts... ] |
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WITHOUT YELLING AT PEOPLE AND NAME CALLING
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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I agree.
Feb 4, 2020, 12:30 PM
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The best way is to ignore insults. Politicians address insults and attacks everyday. Trump is not a politician. He is a NY yankee with a really foul mouth and the traditional NYC dweller's attitude.
My grandmother would call him 'base.' I might not go that far but I wouldn't argue with her.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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I appreciate a politician that stands up for himself...
Feb 4, 2020, 12:34 PM
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and doesn't simply bend over and take it. Trump's problem is he is not clever enough to do it tactfully.
While his style is bothersome for me, I think it has appeal for a lot of voters who have no problem telling someone to "go ____ themselves."
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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I can remember saying that to friends while joking but...
Feb 4, 2020, 1:53 PM
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It's a struggle to remember when I said it out of disrespect to someone. Trump lacks manners.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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Re: Question for Trump supporters or people strongly leaning Trump.
Feb 4, 2020, 12:09 PM
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In descending order, Bernie, Pete, Lying Liz, Joe, Kobachar, Yang, Tulsi. So by default Yang and Tulsi.
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All-In [47659]
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Not sure any, but Quid Pro Joe prolly has the best chance.
Feb 4, 2020, 12:31 PM
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Sanders and Warren have unsustainable policy proposals, don't think Pete has enough experience, none of the others have any ground swell...Oh, I find it interesting that the left doesn't want white male billionaires, but would support Steyer and/or Bloomberg.
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All-In [47795]
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I've opined before but I think Mayor Pete
Feb 4, 2020, 2:05 PM
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is the only one who could beat Trump; followed perhaps by Bloomberg.
Bernie and Warren would lose to Trump in dramatic fashion. I think would Biden would fumble on the goal line more than once.
I don't consider Yang/Styer/Klobuchar serious contenders.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I've opined before but I think Mayor Pete
Feb 4, 2020, 2:08 PM
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I agree. As far as Bloomberg, if he could get into the debates, anything could happen. I want Bloomberg.
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All-In [47795]
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I think Bloomberg's biggest liability from an
Feb 4, 2020, 4:25 PM
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electoral point of view is: do the liberals show up and vote for him? does Bernie or another run third party? and if so, does he peal enough off of Trump to make up for it?
Bernie isn't a Democrat but runs in the Democrat primary because that's the only way he's viable on a national level. The same could be said for Bloomberg. Also, any chance Bloomberg runs third party if Bernie gets the nomination?
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Legend [15730]
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Hard to say. All the candidates for the Dems have serious flaws.
Feb 4, 2020, 2:35 PM
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Biden is a mess. He seems like he’s begging yo implode.
Warren and Sanders...I maintain that these two are popular until the realities of their policies go up against the economy under Trump...then I think they are done.
Buttigieg...I know he’s served in the military, but I can’t get over the fact that he’s done soooooo little at this stage. Mayor of South Bend? Come on.
Maybe Bloomberg?
I fear the more central candidates, as I just don’t think people are going to pull the lever for Sanders or Warren when push comes to shove.
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