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It's All About the Angle - Geometry Lesson for UNC/Media
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It's All About the Angle - Geometry Lesson for UNC/Media


Dec 9, 2015, 12:16 PM
CU Side.png(667.5 K)
UNC Side.png(597.6 K)

The ACC Refs stated that the flag was for “breaking the 35 plane.”
The guy with the arrow threw the flag immediately and with no hesitation.
Notice he is looking directly down the line (plane).
Notice #30, the guy who made the recovery after the no call spearing on CU #27.
Notice second pic from the other side of the field.
Notice the basically straight line (The field is most likely crowned which makes it difficult to draw an exact parallel line. (It’s not just about the feet. If ANY part of the player breaks the 35 plane, its offsides.)

I submit that he saw it and called it correctly.

As the guy on Tigernet said that pointed this out last night, the Sports Science guy on ESPN could solve this in five minutes.

Angle of view matters – This is why a camera is usually down each side of the goal line to judge close touchdowns.

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Re: It's All About the Angle - Geometry Lesson for UNC/Media


Dec 9, 2015, 12:19 PM

Poor poor horse.

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null


Re: It's All About the Angle - Geometry Lesson for UNC/Media


Dec 9, 2015, 12:20 PM

Still amazes me that in 2015, we don't have cameras looking straight down the field from the sidelines during critical situations. They are starting to add pylon cameras now we just need those in a lot of places.

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i've always thought #30's finger or hand was over plane...


Dec 9, 2015, 12:26 PM

And this pic or visual pretty much makes him the problem & reason for penalty..IMHO.

GoTiGERS..#1 BABY! ??

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They need to have ref visor cams so we


Dec 9, 2015, 4:06 PM [ in reply to Re: It's All About the Angle - Geometry Lesson for UNC/Media ]

Actually see what the refs see.

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They made a big deal about the pylon cameras before


Dec 10, 2015, 8:17 AM [ in reply to Re: It's All About the Angle - Geometry Lesson for UNC/Media ]

the season started, but I don't recall a single replay where a pylon camera angle was used. You would think there would have been at least a couple.

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It's all academic.


Dec 9, 2015, 12:24 PM

Something UNC knows nothing of.

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Re: It's all academic.- funny I dont care who you are


Dec 9, 2015, 2:01 PM

except to a UNC grad

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Is this a phantom class...asking for a tarhole player who is


Dec 9, 2015, 12:35 PM

interested in the hours?

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Re: It's All About the Angle - Geometry Lesson for UNC/Media


Dec 9, 2015, 12:42 PM

Was it ever said that #30 was the player who was offsides?

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Re: It's All About the Angle - Geometry Lesson for UNC/Media


Dec 9, 2015, 1:42 PM

No. He is just the most logical.

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Re: It's All About the Angle - Geometry Lesson for UNC/Media


Dec 9, 2015, 2:06 PM

Look how close his foot is to the line. Is it really that hard to believe that any part of his head or hand isn't over the line. People don't whine about bang bang plays this much in baseball.

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Re: It's All About the Angle - Geometry Lesson for UNC/Media


Dec 9, 2015, 2:12 PM

yep 1 yard equals 3 feet.

His foot looks to be at or beyond the 1/2 yard mark so ~ 1.5 feet from the line.

Is it safe to assume that some part of his body(arms, head, etc.) in that forward motion was at or beyond the 35 yard line?

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"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


try this


Dec 9, 2015, 2:22 PM

i just did it...

you can see the hash/yard marks for the 34 yard line in the 'CU side' shot. the closest one is between the ball and #3 for UNC.. the downward pointing yellow line/arrow runs through the sideline yard marker - right in front of the guy with khaki pants and a dark blue shirt

draw a line between them. it hits #33 in the toes of his right (forward) foot....

do you really think his hand extends a yard beyond that?

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Re: try this


Dec 9, 2015, 2:41 PM

It may or may not have been a good call. The angles skew and the only way I could say with 100% certainty is if there was a camera looking directly down the 35 yard line, unfortunately, there isn't one.

However, I hold to my main argument that the hit on our guy was textbook targeting that wasn't called(should've been) and it would've negated the play anyways.

I'm tired of the excuses and the biching and moaning from unc and the pundits.

No call vs bad call evens itself out imo.

People should be more concerned about player safety(the no call) rather than a questionable offsides.

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"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Re: try this


Dec 9, 2015, 2:41 PM [ in reply to try this ]

– You're right, looking at that alignment it was definitely a nine point kickoff, and by taking it away from the Tar Heels, the refs stole the game.

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Regardless, just be happy your guy didn't get ejected for


Dec 9, 2015, 2:46 PM [ in reply to try this ]

targeting on that play...which he should have.

Seems to me that you came out ahead on the deal.

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Aspiring member of the TigerNet Sewer Dwellers


Re: try this


Dec 9, 2015, 3:57 PM [ in reply to try this ]
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Man, why you have to make me go through this trouble...got work to do...

Ok...so here is a screen grab from the ESPN feed...it's not the high view from the 50, it's the low view from around the 45 or so, so angle issue, while still exists is not as bad.

Your man #30 is 6'2" tall; typically human legs to body ratio is around 3:4; add in his head and it's basically 50/50, so 37" from waist to top of head and add...2" for thickness of helmet? 39"...that's a yard and 3 more inches. obviously, not all of that is out in front of his hips/legs, but he's got a pretty good forward lean...

He's bent over a fair amount AND his arm is in front...it's really not that big of a stretch...

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39" my @ss. Lucky if it is 16-18". Just look at the length


Dec 9, 2015, 4:58 PM

Of his foot vs the distance to the line. His arm is clearly over

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Clemson Football, the glory days are here!


Re: try this


Dec 9, 2015, 10:52 PM [ in reply to Re: try this ]

Just rewatched this tonight... The other thing I noticed is his forward right foot is above the ground, which means it is actually even closer to the 35 than it looks. Noticed the same thing as you that the low shot from 44ish is better than what media keeps showing.

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Re: It's All About the Angle - Geometry Lesson for UNC/Media


Dec 9, 2015, 3:11 PM [ in reply to Re: It's All About the Angle - Geometry Lesson for UNC/Media ]

Idk about even 1.5 feet. Just looking at his foot which I would guess is about 1 foot long I'd say there is only 8-12 inches between him and the line. That's his right foot and I believe left hand extended at the line. Also if we want to talk about it being in the moment and not a frame by frame look for the referee. That kid was so far ahead of all the other UNC players. Offsides or not that will visually bias the ref. Unless you want to believe UNC teaches their players to cut it hundredths of seconds close to giving us a free chance to recover a huge onside kick. Not a blown call or a fix by a long shot imo.

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8-12 inches??


Dec 9, 2015, 3:17 PM

do you see the yard/hash marks?

they're a yard apart... and a yard from the 35-yard line on either side

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In the 2nd pic, the ball has already left the tee. What's the rule


Dec 9, 2015, 2:13 PM

at that point?

Game is over, our offense dominated, and we erroneously had our db ejected for more than 1 play like the onside kick, so it doesnt matter.. but, it seems like the 2nd pic isn't a good example assuming the 35 can be crossed at the point the ball is off the tee.

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null


+1, I've been saying that since Saturday!***


Dec 9, 2015, 2:15 PM



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Your vertical line extends down too far


Dec 9, 2015, 3:00 PM

The further down you extend the line, the further offsides it hits. Where you have it stopping it's in front of the outside guy, not directly in front of #30. Make sense? Having said that, I think the guy's hand is right at the 35. Probably not enough to say he is definitely offsides, but I also don't think it could have been overturned by a reviewer who knows anything about geometry/parallax error (in other words, not a UNCheat "grad"). Also, without a shot right down the 35, we have to accept the ref's perception. Someone also mentioned possible distorting effect of probable "crowned" field. Awfully tired of hearing people say it wasn't even close.

Not to mention irrefutable illegal formation, and what I believe at least 90% of unbiased observers would call targeting. Trying to be completely neutral, and bearing in mind that if there is any doubt it should be called, I absolutely believe a targeting call should have been called.

Why hasn't the ACC released a statement about the indisputable illegal formation? Just say that's what was flagged and called "offsides." (I know it would be in contradiction to their earlier statement, but we all know that was probably a canned comment). That would be such an easy way to get people to shut up and take the heat off the ref in question. Would also explain why the ref said he could have called it on multiple players.

Sorry for contributing to the flagellation of this now zombie horse. Guess we need to give it the old "double tap".

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Aren't all the Tar Heel fans in full basketball mode now?


Dec 9, 2015, 3:50 PM

Why are we still on this?

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Re: It's All About the Angle - Geometry Lesson for UNC/Media


Dec 9, 2015, 4:25 PM

If UNC did recover, their QB would have just thrown a pick 6 and we would have won by 15 instead of 8. Refs did them a favor.

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Re: It's All About the Angle - Geometry Lesson for UNC/Media


Dec 9, 2015, 4:53 PM

I want to believe as much as the next guy that it was a good call, but the whole analysis of the picture where a parallel line (to the 35) is drawn starting from the ref's head and going the width of the field, and then saying that this proves that the UNC player had crossed the plane at the instant of the kick, is difficult for me to understand. If this is true, wouldn't that also mean that the kicker's leg from immediately above his knee to his foot was actually PAST the 35 yard line by a couple of feet at the exact moment that his toe was hitting the football? That seems impossible.

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Re: It's All About the Angle - Geometry Lesson for UNC/Media


Dec 9, 2015, 10:21 PM

The difference in the kicker and #30 is that the kicker is leaning back, away from the 35 yd line. His foot would have gone over the line, but not his shin/knee.
#30 and the rest are leaning towards the 35 yd line. Therefore, I think the ref saw one of them break the plane of the 35.

Again, if you watch the replay, you will notice the ref's position and that he did not hesitate one millisec in throwing the flag. I find it very hard to believe he did not see what he said, "the player broke the 35 yard plane". If he didn't see what he said, then why did he throw the flag? A UNC conspiracy? I seriously doubt that.

Go Tigers!! Show OU what a great defense can do again!!

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Please make it stop.


Dec 10, 2015, 12:10 AM

It doesn't matter. We won the game, fair and square. Oklahoma awaits.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

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