GIVE AN AWARD
Use your CatCoins™ to grant this post a special award and grant the author bonus CatCoins™!

Love Love Love!
monetization_on 1000
Quality Content
monetization_on 1000
Big Fish
monetization_on 1000
Hmm
monetization_on 1000
Flammable
monetization_on 1000
Caring
monetization_on 1000
Nom Nom Nom
monetization_on 1000
Ooo, Shiny!
monetization_on 1000
Hear ye, hear ye
monetization_on 1000
Cheers
monetization_on 1000
Bravo
monetization_on 500
Grats
monetization_on 1000
Take My Coins
monetization_on 1000
Great Idea!
monetization_on 1000
Nope
monetization_on 1000

YOUR BALANCE
monetization_on
This is what real tyranny looks like
General Boards - Politics & Religion
add New Topic
Replies: 30  

This is what real tyranny looks like

emoji_events [6]
Nov 23, 2021, 7:36 AM
Reply

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-fbis-raid-on-james-okeefe-project-veritas-department-of-justice-merrick-garland-11637091882


flag link

The same people on this board that mock

[4]
Nov 23, 2021, 7:49 AM
Reply

Tom's posts, your posts and others about being a conspiracy looney toon, will then in turn tell us and give us looney toon links that O'Keefe is a Russian asset and that he has been seen having latte's with Tucker Carlson.

2022 orange level member flag link


Re: The same people on this board that mock


Nov 23, 2021, 7:52 AM
Reply

Are they saying O'Keefe didn't get raided? What's the conspiracy?

flag link

Board liberals contend that he ALL ALONG

[1]
Nov 23, 2021, 7:53 AM
Reply

has been a Russian asset for Putin and is doing Putin's dirty work here in the US.

2022 orange level member flag link


Re: Board liberals contend that he ALL ALONG

[2]
Nov 23, 2021, 7:55 AM
Reply

Isn't everyone a Russian spy these days

flag link

Re: Board liberals contend that he ALL ALONG

[2]
Nov 23, 2021, 7:58 AM
Reply

I bet he's a racist too

flag link

Re: Board liberals contend that he ALL ALONG

[2]
Nov 23, 2021, 8:00 AM
Reply

Dang now I’m worried. Am I a Russian spy? I’ve never been to Russia, don’t speak Russian, but I did vote for Trump. Oh my , maybe I am?

flag link

Re: Board liberals contend that he ALL ALONG


Nov 23, 2021, 8:52 AM
Reply

You're definitely a card carrying racist if you voted for Trump. You may be an unwitting spy too?

2022 orange level member flag link

Re: Board liberals contend that he ALL ALONG


Nov 23, 2021, 9:06 AM
Reply

I must be. I’ll work on being better.

flag link

Always thought they looked like this

[1]
Nov 23, 2021, 8:04 AM
Reply

This is a nice one btw.



2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-tiggity-110.jpg flag link

Tough times create strong men.
Strong men create easy times.
Easy times create weak men.
Weak men create tough times.


Re: This is what real tyranny looks like

[2]
Nov 23, 2021, 8:58 AM
Reply

Yep. The FBI without any prodding from Biden raided O'Keefe's home over O'Keefe having daughter Biden's shower diary with Daddy Joe.

Definitely a legitimate and wise usage of the resources of the FBI.

Meanwhile crickets from most of the media. I'm sure that would have been the same exact response had the FBI under Trump raided someone's home who may have had Ivanka's secret diary. Sure.

It isn't a problem because the media by saying nothing, says so.

2022 orange level member flag link

It is crazy and yes, the hypocrisy is overwhelming.

[4]
Nov 23, 2021, 9:20 AM
Reply

I remember when other media outlets were in an uproar because Obama was going to lock out Fox News. A rare moment of clarity for the industry, understanding that this sort of behavior could not be tolerated by our government.

Same here...you don't have to like O'Keefe to know this looks very, very bad. He got the diary by not committing any crimes. He asked the people who gave it to him if they obtained it illegally and they said no. None the less, he chose to hand it over to authorities rather than release its contents. His whole routine is embarrassing certain institutions he disagrees with politically, and he CHOSE not to do so in this instance. And for that, he is raided, NOT charged with a crime, and has his cell phones and documents taken.

As has already been said but cannot (apparently) be said enough, if Trump pulled something like this there would be rioting in the streets.

flag link

null


All right all right. I will go outside and riot on the


Nov 23, 2021, 11:00 AM
Reply

street.

Might get some strange looks from neighbors on the cul-de-sac.

flag link

Re: It is crazy and yes, the hypocrisy is overwhelming.

[1]
Nov 23, 2021, 12:09 PM
Reply

Words matter. The definitions of things matter.

O'Keefe is not a journalist. He's a disinformer. A journalist is just...journaling. Everybody gets all confused-like over this but it's actually really simple. They see something happening they think is newsworthy, they write it down or record it, as factually and objectively as possible, so others can be informed. That's it. That's all. A good journalists checks just two key boxes - objectivity (lack of bias) and factuality. Leading headlines, errors of omission, and getting key facts wrong, make you a bad journalist.

When you deliberately distort facts to create a false impression of someone, in an attempt to ruin their reputation, that isn't journalism anymore. That's character assassination. That's disinformation - bad informant deliberately dispersed, almost invariably for political purposes.

I think that's my main contention here, that there's a difference between bad journalism - which the "mainstream media" is indeed guilty of right now, IMHO, and outright deliberate sh!t-stirrers - which is what O'Keefe is - and instead of countering bad journalism by, in the words of Steve Bannon, by "flooding the zone with sh!t" just to blunt the effect of journalism itself - we maybe need to do a better job of reigning in the bad (if actual) journalists in the actual press out there. Which O'Keefe is not. He's a deliberate disinformer...and yes, I think at least initially he was probably paid to do so by Russian seed money. Stirring up dissent among their enemies has always been a Russian trick. It's cheap, effective, and it was what Putin did for a living. The ironic thing is anybody thinks he's actually stopped when there's a mountain of documentation he hasn't.

Mind, the MSM created the hole they're now in, IMHO. Habitual bad, biased journalism erodes public trust in all journalism...which in turn opens the door for disinformers like O'Keefe to operate.

And that's when you've got full-blown cultural cancer. Nobody trusts anything anymore.

We have to insist on best practices from our actual journalists, and say: "you guys have to stop editorializing and injecting your bias and opinions here." Just write down what you see, be as down-the-middle and fair as possible, keep your opinions out of it. Period. The end.

O'Keefe is no journalist. He's a professional liar and disinformer. Sorry, nobody really is protesting in the media because they know he exists solely to destroy their profession...so don't hold your breath waiting for many of them to do so.

flag link


Re: It is crazy and yes, the hypocrisy is overwhelming.


Nov 23, 2021, 12:20 PM
Reply

I don't know too much about him. What lies has he told?

flag link

Re: It is crazy and yes, the hypocrisy is overwhelming.


Nov 23, 2021, 12:27 PM
Reply

It's insane...and endless. There's an entire movement dedicated to countering O'Keefe and Project Veritas. I mean, I can't even do justice to the amount of crap this guy and his organization have pulled.

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Project_Veritas


flag link


Re: It is crazy and yes, the hypocrisy is overwhelming.


Nov 23, 2021, 1:02 PM
Reply

Well, can you tell me one

flag link

Re: It is crazy and yes, the hypocrisy is overwhelming.


Nov 23, 2021, 1:07 PM
Reply

And this is why Cata bailed on this place. I thought we were having a conversation and I'm trying really hard to present factual reasoned arguments...and all you're doing is establishing you won't listen and I'm completely wasting my time.

Goodbye.

flag link


Re: It is crazy and yes, the hypocrisy is overwhelming.


Nov 23, 2021, 1:07 PM
Reply

I just asked a question

flag link

Re: It is crazy and yes, the hypocrisy is overwhelming.

[2]
Nov 23, 2021, 1:10 PM
Reply

I asked you what his lies were, and you sent a Wikipedia page. If you call a man a liar, I would think you could easily tell me his lies.

flag link

To be fair, he didn't link Wikipedia. He linked a

[2]
Nov 23, 2021, 2:14 PM
Reply

self-appointed "Watch Dog" organization that is clearly an unbiased purveyor of truth, who set-up their website, I'm guessing, to have the...legitimacy?...of Wikipedia.

To wit:

"CMD was founded in 1993 by John Stauber in Madison, Wisconsin. In March 2018, Arn Pearson became CMD’s Executive Director, succeeding Lisa Graves, who served as executive director from 2009-2018 and currently serves as board President. CMD’s team includes researchers, data experts, FOIA experts, lawyers, and fact-checkers. CMD is a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt non-profit."

Who is John Stauber?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stauber

"John Stauber is an American progressiver writer."

"In July 2003, Stauber and Sheldon Rampton wrote Weapons of Mass Deception: The Uses of Propaganda in Bush's War on Iraq, which argued that the Bush administration deceived the American public into supporting the war. In 2004, the two co-authored Banana Republicans, which argued that the Republican Party is turning the U.S. into a one-party state. The book argues that the far-right and its functionaries in the media, lobbying establishment and electoral system are undermining dissent and squelching pluralistic politics in the United States. In 2006 the two wrote The Best War Ever: Lies, ###### Lies, and the Mess in Iraq, which builds upon the arguments they posited in Weapons of Mass Deception."

He sounds unbiased.

Anywhoooo...who is Arn Pearson?

Looks like he's an active contributor to "People for the American Way"...lots of balance here:
https://www.pfaw.org/spokespeople/arn-pearson/
Also contributes a lot to Salon, because, balance...:
https://www.salon.com/writer/arn-pearson


Good. Good stuff.

But the other writers are probably objective. Here...take a look...

Alex Kotch:
https://www.prwatch.org/user/35548/news


David Armiak:
https://www.prwatch.org/user/35506/news


Don Wiener:
https://www.prwatch.org/user/35524/news


Lisa Graves:
https://www.prwatch.org/user/35268/news



Ooooooh, I don't know. Looks like these guys need a visit from the FBI...

flag link

null


Re: To be fair, he didn't link Wikipedia. He linked a


Nov 23, 2021, 2:43 PM
Reply

Exactly. You just confirmed my consistent point...they're too leftist. Which would mean a "LEFT BIAS" rating by that first data field I suggested...and would in turn suggest what this source needs to do to improve itself - to balance its process with more conservative voices. Heck, let's do Salon, for instance, which you mentioned specifically...which gets good marks for the value of its information...and not good marks for its bias and slant.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/salon/


If you do a list of failed fact checks for these writers, most of them are going to be pretty durn good...in direct contrast to, say, Veritas, which bombs, in terms of both bias and factuality...and their "donation based" business model is maybe even more distressing because it essentially means they're character-assassins-for-hire. How do you fix that? I don't see how. It's broken from start to finish. And there is just no equivalency no matter how much you claim there is.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/project-veritas/


And of course, you didn't respond at all to my suggestions for how media might begin policing itself...because you don't think anything can be fixed, you've become one of the mob with pitchforks and torches in your hand, nihilistically claiming it's all effed and there's nothing left to be done but burn it all down.

Those spouting nihilism are...not the good guys, Swarley. Just my belief. Everything you do is ultimately based on despair. You've even admitted you think these are "End Times", which is a peculiar form of narcissism and conceit unto itself. It's an often self-fulfilling prophesy by those who have lost all perspective.

I've tried. I'm with Cata, talking to this mob is getting more and more pointless. Let's just say I strongly do not agree, and...best of luck, fellas.

flag link


YOU’VE tried!?! Oh no no no no no. Now I’m frustrated.


Nov 23, 2021, 2:53 PM
Reply

Cata is indeed right and there are at this point I’d say exactly two posters left whose viewpoints fundamentally differ from mine but whose posts I seek out: you and Cata.

And Cata’s gone-ish.
And you don’t listen/read.

“And of course, you didn't respond at all to my suggestions for how media might begin policing itself...because you don't think anything can be fixed, you've become one of the mob with pitchforks and torches in your hand, nihilistically claiming it's all effed and there's nothing left to be done but burn it all down.”

This is infuriating willful ignorance. I refuted this characterization earlier this week and challenge you to find anywhere where I have indicated that things can’t be fixed and the whole thing should be burned down.

“ Those spouting nihilism are...not the good guys, Swarley. Just my belief. Everything you do is ultimately based on despair. You've even admitted you think these are "End Times", which is a peculiar form of narcissism and conceit unto itself. It's an often self-fulfilling prophesy by those who have lost all perspective.”

What the heck!?! Who do you think you are writing to!?! When I have ever claimed that this is the End Times!?! Provide one reference. I don’t even need a link, just a discussion…I’ll find it myself. No way I have ever said that. Provide one link to a time I’ve said that life is meaningless or that nothing matters. Anything “nihilistic”.

flag link

null


Re: YOU’VE tried!?! Oh no no no no no. Now I’m frustrated.


Nov 23, 2021, 3:15 PM
Reply

Did you not? Maybe I misread, I thought you did indeed believe that. If not, apologies.

But where the heck are you going with this? Where do you think this ends? If you just burn down the press, where on Earth is accountability to power going to come from?

And you are proving my point, whether or not you realize it. How many of those writers you were talking about were pointing themselves directly at the freaking Koch Brothers?

The root of that boils down to the same issue, over and over: Citizens United. Which absolutely was not "Citizens" being "United", and essentially defined that dark money (especially from mega-billionaires like the Kochs, those being the founders) was accountable to nobody, and didn't even have to identify itself.

Interesting how many of those same organizations are listed as primary donors to Veritas...and are the arch-enemies of these press guys demanding open information. But Veritas's founders don't want anybody telling the truth about them, they want the press freaking destroyed.

Which is the whole point of Veritas...which is the real "enemy of the people", and the actual conspiracy hiding in shadows they themselves created...with all their dark money.

flag link


Re: It is crazy and yes, the hypocrisy is overwhelming.

[2]
Nov 23, 2021, 1:21 PM
Reply

When did he bail? He was back again hours later last night and again this morning.

It shouldn’t be that hard to make your point if this guy is truly that bad.

2022 orange level member flag link

Re: It is crazy and yes, the hypocrisy is overwhelming.


Nov 23, 2021, 1:29 PM
Reply

I really don't know much about the guy. He might be a POS, but I thought the local police typically dealt with property theft. It seems like a pretty big deal for the FBI to raid someone's home and take their belongings. Has O'keefe been charged with anything? This seems like it should be a very big deal in a society that values freedom.

flag link

Ah. Sounds like what the FBI did was okay then.

[1]
Nov 23, 2021, 12:46 PM
Reply

Once again, I can make the same description for about 90% of the news media outlets out there...that they deliberately distort facts to create a false impression. Ergo, they are all fair games for an FBI raid, put in handcuffs while agents take away any documentation and cell phones they see fit (I hadn't seen this but I assume a warrant was issued...would be interesting to read that one). The fact that you THINK he was a Russian agent...and then assume that as fact to justify everything else that comes...doesn't make you right. It just makes you a candidate for a job at CNN.

Anyway, obviously we disagree, but if that's your position, that's your position. I do hope then that Trump doesn't win in 2024...because with this power, whooooa nelly.


Also Anyway:
"Nevertheless, media organizations and their supporters, such as the American Civil Liberties Union, the Committee to Protect Journalists and the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press, of which I served as executive director from 1985 to 1999, rallied to protest the searches and seizures as a possible violation of the First Amendment right of a news organization to gather information. They demanded answers about why Project Veritas was targeted in the investigation. And they made clear that they were concerned about more than just Project Veritas, whose methods they have often decried."

https://theconversation.com/project-veritas-and-the-mainstream-media-strange-allies-in-the-fight-to-protect-press-freedom-172112


flag link

null


Re: Ah. Sounds like what the FBI did was okay then.


Nov 23, 2021, 12:55 PM
Reply

You'll get some obligatory chirping from the true-blue far leftists because of the consequences you mentioned, but by and large you're going to get deafening silence from most.

Their concerns are valid because it does indeed set all manner of bad precedents, granted. I would also say our laws - more maybe, more precisely, our culture and customs - on press freedoms are imperfect and need further refinement.

I've suggested methods for how the press can clean up its sh!t. It's really simple, an obligatory warning label - like a movie rating or PARENTAL ADVISORY EXPLICIT LYRICS sticker - on each article or information broadcast that contain the following:

1) Bias rating as evaluated by neutral peer review
2) Factuality/accuracy rating as evaluated by neutral peer review
3) Whether a piece is FACT or OPINION.

Those ratings need to be on everything that purports to be news or "infotainment". If it isn't, they get fined. Period.

I think that changes everything, and is really all we need.

flag link


Re: Ah. Sounds like what the FBI did was okay then.

[1]
Nov 23, 2021, 1:06 PM
Reply

The real issue is what right does the FBI have to raid this man's house? What right do they have to confiscate his cell phones?

Perhaps the FBI will reveal the why of their raid, but at this point this doesn't seem proper.

Having the DOJ tracking parents for mouthing off at school board meetings is another recent development meant to chill dissent.

Free speech is to be protected and not arbitrarily shut down or suppressed.

2022 orange level member flag link

Can you C&P? Paywall.***

[1]
Nov 23, 2021, 1:00 PM
Reply



2022 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link

If you see everything as liberal and conservative teams, then You Are What's Wrong With America #YAWWWA


Re: Can you C&P? Paywall.***


Nov 23, 2021, 1:12 PM
Reply

It won't let me copy and paste from my phone

flag link

Replies: 30  

TIGER TICKETS

FB GAME: Season Tickets
FOR SALE: For Sale 4 season lower deck football tickets on 40 yd line in Section Q row DD seats 23,25,27,29 (l...

Buy or Sell CU Tickets and More in Tiger Tickets!

General Boards - Politics & Religion
add New Topic
691 people have read this post