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All-TigerNet [10134]
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In 2022, with the school shooting past and present in mind
May 27, 2022, 5:11 AM
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1.)Why do we not have at least metal detectors integrated in schools?
2.) I also think a state funded lottery paired with a charity program similar to the South Carolina educational lottery ) could be utilized to introduce trained/armed security departments in each school. Keep in mind that the South Carolina educational lottery generates about 610 m what would you guys think?
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All-TigerNet [12573]
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Re: In 2022, with the school shooting past and present in mind
May 27, 2022, 7:33 AM
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1-100% agree with metal detectors with limited access and locked doors--after all, it took just one unsuccessful shoe bomber on a plane to change the way we fly. . 2-it looks like having armed AND well trained in house resource officers is needed, but if they take the job, which no one is forcing them to do so, they and local police must be willing to rush the shooter at their own peril. Not only do minutes count, but seconds.
3-Honest gun control discussion and legislation that will probably do little to no good. There are almost 400 million guns in the US now, there are 15 million AR-15's in circulation. Assault weapon is a very misleading term, shotguns and pistols can be very, very devastating in close quarters.
4-I could personally go with age 21 to purchase any firearm with an exception for active duty military.
5-The Second Amendment is a serious impediment to significant gun control legislation and I am thankful for that, so politicians need to be honest about what they say and be accurate. In fact, Biden was once again wrong when he said at the time that the Second Amendment was passed that cannons could not be possessed by individuals. There was no such prohibition at the time that the Second Amendment was passed.No, I am not advocating for cannon possession.
6-Our society is THE problem. We have brought up several generations of disaffected young and angry boys and men without strong male mentors. Babies having babies and the erosion of the nuclear family is a big deal. Discipline and morals are important. Unless we address the rot that continues, violence will continue to plague us.
7-Better social media monitoring. I was kicked off Facebook for several days, inside of a day, for posting that we in the US are trashy, meaning litter bugs. BTW, no longer on FB, but this kid made no secret of his intentions and yet here we are.
This is a very complicated issue and we do need a dialogue on violence in general and gun violence in particular, but things have changed when people brazenly carjack, smash and grab, push folks in front of trains and randomly assault people on our streets just for kicks.
This problem goes far beyond guns which is simply a tool that sick and evil people use to harm others.
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110%er [5649]
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Re: In 2022, with the school shooting past and present in mind
May 27, 2022, 7:58 AM
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I'm latching onto this one:
Our society is THE problem. We have brought up several generations of disaffected young and angry boys and men without strong male mentors. Babies having babies and the erosion of the nuclear family is a big deal. Discipline and morals are important. Unless we address the rot that continues, violence will continue to plague us.
Agree, this is as close to the root cause as you can get. Take any one of these mass murderers or any criminal and you have to go back to day 1 and ask what happened.
Mental illness of course is another issue that will be ignored forever, it seems. IMO if the USA has more issues than other countries, there is an underlying scientific explanation. The answer may not be politically or socially palatable. For example, our nation's diet sucks. Might be as simple as eating food that grows as opposed to eating crap that comes from an industrial facility. Too much sugar, caffeine, who knows, but we do know the political power industry lobbyists have to maintain status quo.
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Orange Blooded [4014]
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Re: In 2022, with the school shooting past and present in mind
May 27, 2022, 8:27 AM
[ in reply to Re: In 2022, with the school shooting past and present in mind ] |
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It's becoming evident that law enforcement doesn't care to engage a shooter(s) with AR's when they have pistols. We saw that in Parkland and it seems to be what happened in Evalde . The security in Buffalo actually engaged the shooter with his pistol and he lost and paid the price. Let's not be under estimate AR's versus hand guns.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: In 2022, with the school shooting past and present in mind
May 27, 2022, 9:12 AM
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To your point, if we could come up with a program to have in house, continuous specially trained and armed personnel at each hallway turn. I also remember when I was in school, special drug/Firearm K-9 units would randomly patrol campus from time to time. Why can each school have its own K9 and handler patrolling and verifying checkpoints?
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All-In [26962]
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Because this isn't a police state and the constant presence
May 27, 2022, 9:20 AM
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of K9 teams and heavily armed "Security forces" creates unjustified psychological trauma in kids.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Because this isn't a police state and the constant presence
May 27, 2022, 9:46 AM
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I have considered that. That’s why the hallways will patrolled by these individuals while there are closed doors and teachers are teaching and children learning. If a teacher has an issue, he or she can press a button alerting the security team members. It will be followed up by a return call and a visual check.
Small things like this can be implemented professionally to make the encounters for the a K9, officer and student be enjoyable and safe. You talk about kids having psychological drama by encountering scary officers, how do you think the same kids would feel seeing 19 of their dead classmates in front of them? These parents would pay any amount to have their kids back. Don’t push the scare tactic agenda.
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All-In [26962]
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This is insane overkill to satisfy your own paranoias.***
May 27, 2022, 9:48 AM
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All-In [26962]
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Orange Blooded [4014]
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Re: This is cowardice. Not being outgunned.***
May 27, 2022, 9:22 AM
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Probably true, but whatever it is, it's happened twice. And the one instance where the shooter was engaged, the person lost and died (18yo kid with AR vs experienced retired officer with handgun).
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All-In [26962]
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There are far more examples of persons armed with handguns
May 27, 2022, 9:25 AM
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effectively neutralizing threats with more firepower.
Again, this is cowardice. It was at Parkland. It was here.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: This is cowardice. Not being outgunned.***
May 27, 2022, 10:41 AM
[ in reply to This is cowardice. Not being outgunned.*** ] |
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How is it being outgunned when you have a K9 a actively patrolling areas where guns/ drugs could be found. Is it needed everyday? Probably not. Is it redundant? No more redundant than any other security office/services in nearly every single public and private building in America.
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All-In [26962]
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Kids are not adults. They can't process environmental
May 27, 2022, 11:04 AM
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feedback like we can.
Putting them in an environment where they are constantly surrounded by dogs, armed guards, and military-style fortifications, and there is always an atmosphere of "danger," is hugely traumatic. Psychologists have for years now warned about the lasting damage of active shooter drills on kids, and now you want to expose them to this same trauma as soon as they set foot on school property until the moment they leave?
That's sadistic.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Kids are not adults. They can't process environmental
May 27, 2022, 11:19 AM
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No one is speaking of a military compound my friend. Again, you are overthinking. Do we not have specialized security staffs in most public buildings we walk into everyday?
Why are there security establishments in federal buildings Aka banks, but not in a federal building as… I don’t know and school with children in it? You are the one stretching to call it a POW camp. You can think on a higher level than this my man.
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110%er [6558]
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: In 2022, with the school shooting past and present in mind
May 27, 2022, 8:38 AM
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My oldest goes to a huge school.
And it has been single point of entry for as long as I know. It can be done.
Some will ##### and moan no matter what schools try to do to keep kids safe.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: In 2022, with the school shooting past and present in mind
May 27, 2022, 9:01 AM
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My son went to one as well. A visitor must walk up to a desk, present I.D, scan ID . The machine will automatically print an ID badge that must be worn all times . Then the lady at the desk would buzz you in for paperwork. It’s not hard.
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All-In [42026]
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Re: In 2022, with the school shooting past and present in mind
May 27, 2022, 8:06 AM
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1. Because a mass shooter isn't going to go through a metal detector. The guy who shot up the Texas school was already shooting as he walked up to the school.
This is an expensive non-solution.
2. School resource officers. That's it.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: In 2022, with the school shooting past and present in mind
May 27, 2022, 8:58 AM
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Access gates for non student? Scan your student ID to get through the terminal. All non students, visitors and parents must check in through additional screening/questioning processes.
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All-In [46801]
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In many cases the shooter is a student***
May 27, 2022, 9:18 AM
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All-In [42026]
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: In 2022, with the school shooting past and present in mind
May 27, 2022, 9:16 AM
[ in reply to Re: In 2022, with the school shooting past and present in mind ] |
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Parameter patrol is a huge issue. Had there been a first line of defense guards on perimeter with their primary job is to study the behaviors of others on campus we, we likely would not be talking about some of these issues today.
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All-In [26962]
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Stop. Seriously. Just stop and listen to yourself.
May 27, 2022, 9:22 AM
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You're talking about an occupying paramilitary force having a constant presence in schools, to solve a problem that is a statistical rarity. There are far, far less invasive solutions available, including fixing the defensive measures already in place. For instance, ensuring the resource officer placed at schools is not a bag of ####.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Stop. Seriously. Just stop and listen to yourself.
May 27, 2022, 10:03 AM
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You're talking about an occupying paramilitary force having a constant presence in schools, to solve a problem that is a statistical rarity. There are far, far less invasive solutions available, including fixing the defensive measures already in place. For instance, ensuring the resource officer placed at schools is not a bag of ####.
Again it is called being proactive (which in cases we don’t do) rather than reactive ( which is what we usually do). That is the known in this equation. People talk about adding real time right now solutions but don’t want to address the issue. As far as a paranoia, we put security officers in place to protect material things at shopping malls , in armored cars to protect your greed and gold but we don’t want to allocate funds to the things that should matter to us the most!!! Our freaking kids! Let’s continue to talk about paranoia…Please.
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All-In [26962]
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Your "solution" is incredibly reactive because it in no way
May 27, 2022, 10:30 AM
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addresses the reality of the situation. The reason it is so overly heavy-handed is because you are reacting to your emotional response to Texas.
There are dozens of pivot points in the shooter's timeline that can be addressed before getting to the point where schools resemble literal prisons.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Your "solution" is incredibly reactive because it in no way
May 27, 2022, 11:12 AM
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Okay, fair enough. But 1st, swear on an oath you are doing everything and by all means necessary to keep my kids safe both monetarily and documented policy/ practices and training. What does the current training agenda look like? Is the training and policies in each school being practiced.
2. Can I count on someone (aside from teachers staff ) as they are supposed to be teaching and not wrestling with active shooters? How is it fair to them to put the sole responsibility on their shoulders? Why not have professionals on site and inside !
3. Will my child be subject to disciplinary action if he or she can’t focus at school work due to them feeling unsafe at school because other “fail safe”mechanisms have failed at other schools?
4. Finally, not being open to suggestion is just plain biased and arrogant. In an event where 1 innocent child has lost their live due to a hate filled perpetrator who ripped them from the face of the earth wether it was racially charged, mentally charged or whatever the motive was is completely wrong. If you set back, refuse to listen to reason, come to logical and sensible answers then we will keep repeating the same stupidity over and over.
You said that bringing in specially trained individuals, or as you called it Heavily Armed forces” (when you failed in your subtle attempt to put words in my mouth) was an overkill. Would you call it an underkill if the only person on site to take down an armed male teenager was feeble ole Mrs Smith? I’ll take the overkill on this one in reference to safety concerns.
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All-In [26962]
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The point I was making is that we are not doing enough, and
May 27, 2022, 11:16 AM
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checks put into place are failing because of incompetence.
Fix this first before moving to your apocalyptic paradise.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: In 2022, with the school shooting past and present in mind
May 27, 2022, 9:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: In 2022, with the school shooting past and present in mind ] |
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1) do you really want to put a price on child safety and go away from proven security methods when the only unknown variable in the whole equation is who, where, when and why we have active shooters. It’s called being proactive and not reactive. How much is your child worth? How is it expensive when most people would freely give to charity/lottery pot to fund special security for lower tier schools? I believe if each state adopted a similar policy it would help in both large and small schools. Think of it as a ratio. 1 officer per a percentage of student body.
Heck? People pay top dollar for training armed security to drive around their money from pickup point to drop off and we can’t even pay for our kids security in public schools?
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All-In [26962]
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Your child dying in a mass shooting is almost a certainty
May 27, 2022, 9:38 AM
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not to happen. Your child experiencing lasting psychological trauma from mass shooting "preventions" at school is almost a certainty to happen.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Your child dying in a mass shooting is almost a certainty
May 27, 2022, 5:28 PM
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Yea, because kids are traumatized by the law enforcement officer they see everyday along with a K9 ( which kids don’t have problems with) rather that seeing all of their classmates shot to pieces. Nearly every single one of our schools elementary and middle school) in the 90’s brought in D.A.R.E officers and drug detecting K9s routinely and I can tell you I never seen anyone cowering down in a corner or discuss about how nightmarish that day was .
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All-In [36450]
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All-In [42026]
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I believe...
May 27, 2022, 10:59 AM
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The district (because it was truly out in the middle of nowhere) only had four for the whole district and eight schools. This one didn't have one.
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All-In [26479]
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You know, a simple locked exterior door would have done
May 27, 2022, 9:10 AM
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wonders in Uvalde.
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All-In [46801]
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One issue that I have been in meetings about recently
May 27, 2022, 9:19 AM
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is the amount of older schools (at least in SC) that were built before school shootings were an issue.
There are many schools built in the 60's and 70's with little thought to security because back then you didn't need it.
Now, logistically, they are near impossible to completely lock down.
Sitting targets really.
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All-In [46801]
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Hell thinking back to my high school, visitors
May 27, 2022, 9:22 AM
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walked in through the front door and you were in the hallway with students passing by. Then you crossed the hall to the office.
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All-In [42026]
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My high school, like many back then
May 27, 2022, 11:00 AM
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Was somewhat of an "open campus" and wasn't replaced with a new building until just a few years ago. I think there are still a lot like that today.
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Heisman Winner [111427]
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I think one solution here is
May 27, 2022, 9:40 AM
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a class-action lawsuit, the people against Armalite, where they pay out 10 million dollars to everyone that has ever lost a family member to one of their guns. I do not think it will necessarily fix things, but morally, it is the right thing to do. Their bankruptcy will save a lot fo lives, NC tiger and Musk just said some companies should go bankrupt, this is one of them.
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All-In [26962]
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Well figuring that AR platform is manufactured by
May 27, 2022, 9:43 AM
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any number of brands... not exactly sure you've worked this through completely.
Besides, why be coy about it. A far more honest argument is just calling for another ban.
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Heisman Winner [111427]
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Re: Well figuring that AR platform is manufactured by
May 27, 2022, 9:59 AM
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i was joking, although these families deserve money.
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All-In [26962]
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I did think that was a little superficial for you... ;)
May 27, 2022, 10:01 AM
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Based on evolving info, sounds like the best lawsuit would be against the city and police department (similar to the Parkland suits against the FBI). Unfortunately, might have some QI issues to get around.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Orange Blooded [2692]
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Replies: 41
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