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All-In [26500]
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If Putin and Trump were in cahoots
Feb 28, 2022, 10:00 AM
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isn't this Ukraine invasion a little late ?
Should have occurred between 2016 - 2020, right ?
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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With the Russian army stalling out unexpectedly,
Feb 28, 2022, 10:03 AM
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Republicans are getting a bit nervous that their admiration for Putin was misplaced.
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110%er [7207]
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Re: If Putin and Trump were in cahoots
Feb 28, 2022, 10:05 AM
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It's almost like he didn't feel threatened by NATO/Europe when Trump was President.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: If Putin and Trump were in cahoots
Feb 28, 2022, 10:39 AM
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I know, right? It's almost like he was content to kick back and watch Trump destroy NATO and the world order we had built that we are in charge of all on his lonesome, with that winning personality of his.
That alone made me shake my head more than anything. All these partisans screeching about "NATO nations not paying their fair share so let's just destroy NATO!!!"
Like: are you kidding? There's really only two ways of making a nation stronger: strategic alliances and plain old-fashioned conquest. Building strategic alliances is like herding cats and the top kitty is always going to have to herd extra-quick, especially the bigger the herd gets, but it also has the added value of: it's voluntary and the participants are willing.
Conquest is, of course, involuntary for those conquered. And it alarms everybody else who doesn't wanna be a part of that particular empire. As Putin is now discovering.
Trump, in his infinite wisdom, was doing his best to destroy alliances we had spent decades and in some cases centuries building. Alliance-building is hard and he was just throwing it away. And we controlled that network of strategic alliances.
There are just no words to describe how dumb that was, and how much weaker and more exposed it left us. Especially with the Russia/China/North Korea/Iran axis looking for any sign of weakness. Of course Putin was willing to kick back and let it happen. Trump was doing his freaking work for him.
The inability of certain folks to realize that astounds me. Yeah, let's just throw away the world order we dominate because His Orangeness is having a hissy about how annoying it is to maintain.
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Orange Blooded [4016]
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Re: If Putin and Trump were in cahoots
Feb 28, 2022, 10:39 AM
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Anyone have any smelling salts for the OP?
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110%er [6692]
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Re: If Putin and Trump were in cahoots
Feb 28, 2022, 10:37 AM
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They were never in cahoots. Trump is meaningless. It doesn't change the fact that Trump admires Putin.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: If Putin and Trump were in cahoots
Feb 28, 2022, 10:58 AM
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I agree...they weren't in "cahoots" because that implies a voluntary association and Putin doesn't like those. He's an authoritarian. He wants to control. He wants to dominate. And like all true authoritarians he's got psychopathic tendencies and exists in a universe composed largely of himself; he doesn't believe in friendships.
Trump owes Russian oligarchs $1.3 billion dollars, in personally guaranteed loans. I cannot repeat that enough times. They are all due in the next four years. Whoever owns those loans, owns Trump.
Also, the Kremlin Papers absolutely indicated that Russia had kompromat on Trump.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2021/07/15/trump-kompromat-claimed-report-says-kremlin-documents-show-putin-conspiring-for-billionaire/?sh=545d4d016b1e
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110%er [7128]
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Re: If Putin / Trump - - The Guardian: Discredited source
Feb 28, 2022, 5:11 PM
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Dear quozzel, thanks for reminding that Forbes Magazine has been lazy for years ... proven again with their re-posting an article from The (discredited) Guardian.
For convenience, at the bottom of this post is a link to a 2017 Guardian article which lauds Christopher Steele's book and parrots Steele's assertion that his DJT / Russia collusion dossier was "70% to 90% accurate."
As a reminder, it was Christopher Steele (ex-MI6 agent) who was hired by the Hillary Clinton campaign and the DNC to write a dossier that "proved" DJT and Russia were in cahoots.
Sho' nuff, the Guardian's editors either (1) whiffed on their editorial duties checking out whether or not Christopher Steele was legitimate -or- (2) were ideologically sympatico with the "Orange Man Bad" crowd and chose to ignore their editorial duties. Regardless of motive, the Guardian discredited itself by promoting C.Steele's garbage. The Guardian (and even more tragically, Forbes Magazine) can not be trusted as a truthful publication.
Good advice: Trust people as being honest until they lie to you about something big. At that point, you can no longer trust them. This maxim also applies to news agencies, government agencies, and 'journalists.'
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/15/christopher-steele-trump-russia-dossier-accurate
Mr. Q, you posted a salacious & damning article about DJT; unfortunately, your source is not credible.
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110%er [5673]
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Re: If Putin and Trump were in cahoots
Feb 28, 2022, 10:39 AM
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Biden will win the Nobel Peace Prize out of this, right!?
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Hall of Famer [24033]
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Re: If Putin and Trump were in cahoots
Feb 28, 2022, 11:18 AM
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Here come the mental gymnastics
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: If Putin and Trump were in cahoots
Feb 28, 2022, 11:25 AM
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Does Trump owe Russian oligarchs $1.3 billion dollars?
Do leaks out of the Kremlin's own meetings indicate the Russkies did indeed have kompromat on Trump?
"Mental gymnastics" requires ignoring those two rather glaring and rather significant factoids. I'd genuinely love an answer that doesn't involve Whataboutism or you sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la la la la la" like a defiant six-year-old because you don't care to answer.
Don't those factoids concern you about Trump at all?
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Hall of Famer [24033]
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Re: If Putin and Trump were in cahoots
Feb 28, 2022, 11:42 AM
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Who are the people that Trump owes? I imagine you have an accounting of this.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: If Putin and Trump were in cahoots
Feb 28, 2022, 12:29 PM
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Now that's the interesting question. I actually misspoke in one regard - Trump's debt has swollen to $1.3 billion as of the last estimate per Forbes. They did a good breakdown here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2021/10/07/trumps-debt-now-totals-an-estimated-13-billion/?sh=468b0ee94575
Where I was in error was how much of it is personally guaranteed, not just leveraged against his businesses. That amount is well over $400 million...and that's where the real interesting questions begin, because a lot of that was cash that just appeared out of thin air. Financial Times did an intriguing breakdown here, and the real question is where the loans from Deutsche Bank and Ladder Capitol originated. Because those are the ones who kept him afloat after four bankruptcies in the '90's, when Western banks would no longer loan to Trump and sudden mass infusions of new capital and gobs of pure cash came in.
If the Russians got to him and put him in their pockets with some sort of shady scheme through the oligarchs, this is where they did it.
https://www.ft.com/content/448c69a6-18f3-4fa0-a3ad-50e8ce553e1e![]() News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the world?s leading global business publication
I can supply a ton of other information, including the fact that Trump's personal (Russian) banker at Deutsche Bank bailed on the USA and returned to Russia just before Trump left office. Clearly they were well-aware there would be questions.
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Hall of Famer [24033]
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Re: If Putin and Trump were in cahoots
Feb 28, 2022, 12:43 PM
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Wow - he has a lot of real estate debt. Imagine that!
When do you think Trump became a Russian spy? Oddly enough, I never heard about him being a Russian spy before he got into politics.
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All-In [46823]
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Careful you don't hurt your back
Feb 28, 2022, 12:46 PM
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moving those goal posts
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: If Putin and Trump were in cahoots
Feb 28, 2022, 1:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: If Putin and Trump were in cahoots ] |
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I don't think he was a Russian "spy". The available info we have doesn't support that idea. Trump was a businessman, not a political operative.
Where I think he was useful to the oligarchs was simple: he needed money...and they needed a place to park their money. He had huge cash businesses, he had gobs of gaudy overpriced real estate, and that's where investors of, shall we say, dubious repute like to park their money because it's so hard to trace and ultimately all the wealth in the world isn't worth jack if you don't have somewhere to squirrel it away. And these guys were all too well aware how shaky the financial institutions in Russia were, and how susceptible they were to shifting political fortunes. Enter Trump, IMHO.
That's where their relationship remained until 2016, according to the Kremlin Papers, whereupon they realized they could convert one of their Western moneymen into something a lot more than that. And according to the Kremlin's leaked internal documents, they were directed to do exactly that.
The reasons were pretty simple if you ascribe to that line of thinking. He was unstable and divisive, which is exactly what they wanted, plus they had a ton of leverage on him because he owed them a ton of money and because they also some kind of kompromat on him. (Speculate away on whatever that is, but their internal memorandums say they've got something.)
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Associate AD [840]
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Don't think he's smart enough to be a spy
Feb 28, 2022, 9:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: If Putin and Trump were in cahoots ] |
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He's just stupid enough to be an unwilling/willing tool for them, depending on if he realizes he's doing their bidding.
He's always been enamored with Russia though. He still brags about traveling to the Soviet Union in the 1980s when he first tried to get into business there.
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110%er [7128]
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Re: If Putin and Trump were in cahoots
Feb 28, 2022, 8:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: If Putin and Trump were in cahoots ] |
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One more point to add to my previous response to your speculative "factoid" post.
The Forbes Magazine link ... for those who take time to actually read -and- who have a basic understanding of finance ... hardly reveals some sort of deep dark plot between shady global financiers and DJT. Did you read beyond the article's headline and first few paragraphs? The content is hardly some damning / inflammatory rebuke of DJT.
This may be of surprise to you, so I'll help you out.
It is a standard practice for builders and real estate owners (big or small) to utilize debt as a means of improving their cash position. This is basic finance. Just because the numbers are big does not mean that something is wrong.
Identifying some of DJT's financiers does not mean that they are disreputable or that their dealings with DJT ... and vice versa ... are doing anything wrong.
So DJT improved his cash position by refinancing his debt. Woop Tee Doo. Shocking I say. YAWN
As for the Financial Times link, this is safe for you because it is likely that numerous TNet posters do not subscribe to FT; therefore few of them will read the article. Safe from being cross-checked.
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110%er [7128]
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Re: If Putin and Trump were in cahoots
Feb 28, 2022, 7:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: If Putin and Trump were in cahoots ] |
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Gosh gee Mr. quozzel, you post of lot of speculative stuff (maybe Trump did this or maybe the Russian Oligarchs did that) and, in your very clever way, imply (but don't outright say) that Bad Orange Man is owned by the Russian Oligarchs because he had utilized debt financing from shady global financiers in his private career as a builder / real estate mogul. The facts are at best distantly remote to the speculation (i.e., the words which you post in TNet).
I'll play along ... here's my IMPLICATION as a response to your IMPLICATION: Those 'shady global financiers' who refinance DJT's debt MUST be doing so in order to influence and corrupt DJT ... and then DJT becomes president ... and then DJT is beholden to the 'shady global financiers ... and then the financiers tell DJT to come get you!
Of course my IMPLICATION is wild ... but yet no less truthful than yours. After all, it's all implication; facts are not required be of relevance to a speculative conclusion.
HOWEVER, to your credit, you truthfully reference your information in this post and your others in this e-mail string as "factoids" instead of "facts."
Factoid: An assumption or speculation that is reported and repeated so often that it often becomes accepted as fact.
No worries, Mr. Q. It is obvious that on TNet there are numerous happy devourers of your "factoids."
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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You must not be very familiar with Deutsche Bank
Feb 28, 2022, 8:27 PM
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Russians owned him like Mexican cartel owned Marty Byrde.
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110%er [7128]
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Re: You must not be very familiar with Deutsche Bank
Feb 28, 2022, 9:19 PM
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Deutsche Bank is a significant financier to the EU based global company of which I am employee.
Tell me all about Deutsche Bank, will you?
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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gee, what a coincidence...you just happen to be working
Feb 28, 2022, 10:06 PM
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for the most prodigous money launderer in the world. Poster child for the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.
How much in fines has Deutsche paid over the years? What are we up to?
Let's see....$425 Million to NY State....$130 Million to US Treasury...the list just keeps getting longer an longer, ha hah ha
I know I know, these were completely due to their clients illegal activities of which you and they were not a part, lol. I get it. Just slap on the wrist anyway...I'm sure Deutsche has plenty of cash flow these days to pay the lawyers.
Besides y'all get these sweetheart deals to defer prosecution while you clean things up for the outside world. What a joke.
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110%er [7128]
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Re: gee, what a coincidence...you just happen to be working
Feb 28, 2022, 10:25 PM
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Yawn ... I'm off to bed.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: gee, what a coincidence...you just happen to be working
Mar 1, 2022, 12:01 AM
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