|
Replies: 38
| visibility 1
|
All-In [26877]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15590
Joined: 1/26/22
|
If it's not Brad, what is holding our basketball program
Apr 20, 2022, 10:12 AM
|
|
back? And don't say we have to recruit against other ACC schools when our football program cucks SEC powerhouses in their own back yard.
There has been one constant in 12 years of mediocrity...and it's not the AD or facilities.
|
|
|
|
 |
Oculus Spirit [82972]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80112
Joined: 11/29/99
|
I'd say 6 out of 12 years, we've been mediocre.***
Apr 20, 2022, 10:16 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1900]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 391
Joined: 9/3/03
|
Re: I'd say 6 out of 12 years, we've been mediocre.***
Apr 20, 2022, 10:21 AM
|
|
You need to look farther back. We have been mediocre in BB all except a very few years.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [82972]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80112
Joined: 11/29/99
|
OP was about Brad's 12.***
Apr 20, 2022, 10:26 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11423]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 13598
Joined: 10/27/04
|
Re: If it's not Brad, what is holding our basketball program
Apr 20, 2022, 10:16 AM
|
|
I think it is BOT and adminstration. Mostly don't care much for bkball. I do think President Clements loves basketball. Really supported WVU when he was there and they won big, but also going out of his way to support a guy he really likes in Coach Brownell.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7929]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 10405
Joined: 11/28/03
|
Re: If it's not Brad, what is holding our basketball program
Apr 20, 2022, 10:26 AM
|
|
Brad is a good coach who has been average at Clemson because the support and investment has been mediocre. Not sure why so many have such a hard time understanding the situation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26877]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15590
Joined: 1/26/22
|
So what is needed that currently isn't being delivered?***
Apr 20, 2022, 10:33 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7929]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 10405
Joined: 11/28/03
|
Re: So what is needed that currently isn't being delivered?***
Apr 20, 2022, 10:36 AM
|
|
Good grief. This has been detailed about a million times. Look at football for your roadmap. We have invested in every single facet of the football program and it has paid dividends. Yes football and basketball are different (especially at Clemson) but if you want a strong basketball program investment is required.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [9661]
TigerPulse: 69%
Posts: 9374
Joined: 1/18/17
|
^^^Still can’t answer the question. ^^^
Apr 20, 2022, 1:27 PM
|
|
LOL
C’mon man. Tell us what specifically we are missing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7929]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 10405
Joined: 11/28/03
|
Re: ^^^Still can’t answer the question. ^^^
Apr 21, 2022, 7:25 AM
|
|
LOL
C’mon man. Tell us what specifically we are missing.
Be
Been typed out numerous times so I won’t bother doing it again for a troll. Try the search function…maybe you will get lucky
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16058]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 24595
Joined: 5/14/02
|
We know we pumped $64 Million into our…
Apr 21, 2022, 7:44 AM
|
|
Basketball ?? program in Brads 6th year. 6 years later we are 17-16. Please quit repeating the lie that we haven’t invested in basketball.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6974]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6349
Joined: 9/21/04
|
Re: So what is needed that currently isn't being delivered?***
Apr 21, 2022, 7:56 AM
[ in reply to Re: So what is needed that currently isn't being delivered?*** ] |
|
This is absurd, we’ve invested plenty in basketball. Brownlee is one of the higher paid coaches in the country. He can’t close on good players, as a very mediocre in-game coach. We don’t need to pour more money on top of Brownlee, we just need a coach who knows what he’s doing, can improve the talent pool, and coach them up. Our players seem to get worse as they hang around Clemson
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12825]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8170
Joined: 3/30/16
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4086]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2467
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [43989]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32915
Joined: 2/22/03
|
What isn’t true?***
Apr 20, 2022, 3:10 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
|
That's an invalid excuse.
Apr 20, 2022, 12:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: If it's not Brad, what is holding our basketball program ] |
|
What about coaches before Brad who have proven basketball can be successful and have great fan support has? They did it with much less than Brad.
Brad has MUCH more in the way of facilities and investments. He had great fan support until many were turned off by the style of play and the inexplicable losses. We still has enough in attendance to win more games. Things is, fans' energy may help in some tight games and whatnot, but fans don't win games. Good coaches coach well even if there are zero people in the stands.
Brad has had everything needed to win more games. The buck squarely and firmly stops with him.
Contrary to your excuses, we're 37th in investment, and Brad makes the 38th highest salary in America.
Your excuses are stale and are not why we've only been in the top 40 twice during Brad's 12 years. Good coaching is good coaching.
Brad has everything needed and had had 12 years to build a program. It 100% falls on him.
As a side note, it's odd you parrot EXACTLY the words JK uses. What's up with that, Judge Jr?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16058]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 24595
Joined: 5/14/02
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2403]
TigerPulse: 72%
Posts: 4092
Joined: 4/12/10
|
Re: If it's not Brad, what is holding our basketball program
Apr 21, 2022, 9:12 AM
[ in reply to Re: If it's not Brad, what is holding our basketball program ] |
|
I'm not a coach at Brad's level . . .but was a BB coach myself. I do not think Brad is a good coach. I do not like how he runs an offense and lately, not happy with the defense. I do not like his game time decisions, game strategy, etc. Not impressed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [805]
TigerPulse: 83%
Posts: 816
Joined: 10/15/13
|
Re: If it's not Brad, what is holding our basketball program
Apr 20, 2022, 10:35 AM
|
|
With a few notable exceptions, Clemson has ALWAYS been mediocre in basketball. It's not just BB.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6650]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 9722
Joined: 9/22/11
|
NEGATIVE "FANS"
Apr 20, 2022, 10:53 AM
|
|
With Hall leading the way, the next couple of years were going to be great, unless you nAbobs quit scaring away recruits and transfers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16213]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12767
Joined: 11/14/09
|
So are you saying that a transfer, who committed here
Apr 20, 2022, 5:13 PM
|
|
despite the very fair criticism of Brad on this site prior, chose to renege because of T-Net posts since committing? Most posts I saw were very supportive of him coming here for a year.
And now we add an extra freshman commit in Hunter? But it's fans' fault for driving these very same people away?
This type of excuse making from the Brown L Brigade for Brad's coaching failures is disingenuous and sad. Dude needs to take responsibility for himself and his results, lest he will never improve, and we will continue to wallow in his mediocrity. Folks need to stop passing the buck for him and trying to give him an out like that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64517]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88956
Joined: 3/27/01
|
Some will have you believe it's money, or the lack thereof
Apr 20, 2022, 10:54 AM
|
|
but my contention is that more money for facility upgrades and more support staff isn't going to suddenly make BB a better coach.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [43989]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32915
Joined: 2/22/03
|
And I still don’t understand why you can say he’s a bad coach
Apr 20, 2022, 3:12 PM
|
|
when he has won more than our administration’s investment in the program would suggest.
He has us competitive against teams with far more resources and history than we have.
It’s logical to give the program more money to see if he continues to provide a positive ROI.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5379]
TigerPulse: 70%
Posts: 9266
Joined: 11/29/99
|
Let’s hear your ALL-CBB team
Apr 20, 2022, 4:27 PM
|
|
Feel free to name his starters and subs for the past 12 years that would be Final Four worthy. Looking forward to seeing if you can get 10 ACC caliber guys
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [43989]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32915
Joined: 2/22/03
|
You’re joking, right?
Apr 20, 2022, 4:48 PM
|
|
Plenty of good players to choose from. Off the top of my head:
Demontez Stitt
Shelton Mitchell
Marcquise Reed
Gabe DeVoe
KJ McDaniels
Donte Grantham
Jaron Blossomgame
Aamir Simms
Elijah Thomas
Landry Nnoko
PJ Hall
I’m not sure what you mean by “Final Four worthy,” but one of Brad’s teams was two wins from a Final Four so a collection of his best players here would surely be Final Four caliber.
All of these guys listed here, as well as plenty more, were ACC caliber. If you can’t see that, your Brownell hatred is clouding your objectivity big time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16213]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12767
Joined: 11/14/09
|
Yeah. I don't understand why more fans don't see it like
Apr 20, 2022, 5:19 PM
[ in reply to And I still don’t understand why you can say he’s a bad coach ] |
|
our fellow ACC AD's and coaches do, according to Brad, how they are complimentary of the "program he has built" here from one making 3 NCAA tournaments in a row to one making 3 NCAA tournaments in 12 years, one of those with the prior coach's players in year 1.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [43989]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32915
Joined: 2/22/03
|
ACC is much deeper now than it was when Purnell was here.
Apr 20, 2022, 5:34 PM
|
|
So your comparison is silly.
Also, what was our record in those three straight Purnell NCAA Tournament seasons?
What’s telling is that Brad came in and actually won an NCAA Tournament game with the leftovers from Purnell’s last team - one that didn’t have Trevor Booker.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64517]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88956
Joined: 3/27/01
|
The ONLY REASON he has won more games...
Apr 20, 2022, 8:45 PM
[ in reply to And I still don’t understand why you can say he’s a bad coach ] |
|
is because he is the longest tenured coach in Clemson basketball history by about 79 games and counting, yet his overall winning percentage is .568 ranking him below Oliver Purnell, Risk Barnes, Cliff Ellis and Bill Foster. Pumping a boat load of money into the program isn't going to suddenly make BB a better coach. After twelve years, it's abundantly clear, at least to me, what we're going to continue to get with BB.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2845]
TigerPulse: 65%
Posts: 2569
Joined: 6/9/00
|
Just read the message boards
Apr 20, 2022, 11:02 AM
|
|
Who would want to play here? Fans always screaming the sky is falling when it is not falling. 11 winning seasons in 12 years and the Lunatic Fringe still wants the coach fired on an annual basis. The Lunatic Fringe is hold back Clemson basketball. We need more believers and fewer haters.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64517]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88956
Joined: 3/27/01
|
Oh the hypocrisy and the irony...
Apr 20, 2022, 11:26 AM
|
|
If anyone is a hater, it's you voting for Maryland's EJ Henderson for ACC POY instead of Clemson's Woody Dantzler.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64517]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88956
Joined: 3/27/01
|
Your silence is noted !!!***
Apr 20, 2022, 1:22 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16120]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26427
Joined: 11/18/03
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [9661]
TigerPulse: 69%
Posts: 9374
Joined: 1/18/17
|
LOL yeah it’s because of the fans on the message boards.
Apr 20, 2022, 1:29 PM
[ in reply to Just read the message boards ] |
|
It couldn’t possibly be the head coach with the poor attitude and endless excuses.
Nope. No way.
It’s those crazy fans.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16120]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26427
Joined: 11/18/03
|
Poor attitude? Are we just making stuff up now too?***
Apr 20, 2022, 3:07 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16213]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12767
Joined: 11/14/09
|
Re: Just read the message boards
Apr 20, 2022, 5:37 PM
[ in reply to Just read the message boards ] |
|
I was okay with Brad until the Oakland NIT loss. At that point I realized no statistic or comparison or ACC record, no matter how marginally better (or worse) than his predecessors and peers, really mattered. Brad lacks the "It" factor in this field, at this level, and there's nothing really that can improve that other than Brad Brownell himself. In the years since we haven't seen it, and his continued failures in coaching us to victory in clutch games and crunch times against his peers simply reinforces that.
I really, REALLY, wish that weren't so. I used to throw out many of the same things JK does to show that "it ain't that bad" really. But statistics only go so far. The lack of energy, the steadily dwindling LJ crowds, the "brutal" losses that happen far too often, the lack of program identity, throwing players under the bus after tough losses, the lack of engagement with fans and the student body, the lack of vision, putting together just enough of a run at the end of a disappointing season to buy another year, sliding back in performance after contract renewals and enhanced buyouts - all this adds up to paint a picture that no static number or figure can describe.
You should redirect your anger and hate for fans calling out Brown L for what they see to something more productive.
Go Tigers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2471]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 2672
Joined: 9/17/10
|
This should be, at a minimum, POTD.
Apr 21, 2022, 8:31 AM
|
|
Eloquently stated. Thank you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [51873]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 22960
Joined: 10/10/11
|
Re: Just read the message boards
Apr 21, 2022, 8:41 AM
[ in reply to Just read the message boards ] |
|
Do you know what is worse than fans with expectations--fans who say that Clemson cannot do better. I'm all for getting more experienced, qualified assistants, etc. with hope for improvement. But, do not preach limiting expectations as you have done so often on TNet. It is this prevailing attitude that hinders the success of Clemson basketball. If Dabo Swinney had that attitude, football would be 6-6 every year.
These comments don't apply only to the Brownell era. This is a general observation. We can do better.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1056]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 791
Joined: 10/12/99
|
Re: If it's not Brad, what is holding our basketball program
Apr 20, 2022, 12:10 PM
|
|
You have to love kids. You have to love recruiting. Our best Clemson coaches? Recruit everyday and love their kids. They are junkies for their sport - nerds about it - just love that sport - and they always try to help kids get better. It’s not for everyone. Too many coaches - generally speaking - like being the coach @….. but aren’t very bright about what it takes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4444]
TigerPulse: 91%
Posts: 4231
Joined: 1/1/19
|
Re: If it's not Brad, what is holding our basketball program
Apr 20, 2022, 4:53 PM
|
|
Look how well and quick Mike Young the former Wofford coach has done at VA TEC. Those marvelous facilities I’m sure has made a difference. Let’s face it. You can be successful or not depending mostly on the coach- example Dabo
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 38
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
