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Editor [∞]
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Orange Blooded [4186]
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Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies
May 26, 2021, 9:51 AM
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So......MAGA hats can be worn without public humiliation as long as one is masked?
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All-In [27295]
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Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies
May 26, 2021, 9:56 AM
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Being a public university and not private...I can see this evolving into a louder issue soon.
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Legend [17522]
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Head Coach [790]
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Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies
May 26, 2021, 10:04 AM
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As far as i am aware, Clemson has always required updated vaccinations to attend school. MMR, chicken pox, etc.
Has this changed? Otherwise i don't see this requirement as anything different.
The vaccine is available to people. If you don't choose to take it, cool then in an effort to stop further spread this is what's required. This isn't political. It's health policy and in the interest of protecting the collective.
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies
May 26, 2021, 10:12 AM
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I believe the difference is these vaccines have been rushed and some of the ingredients are questionable.
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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What "questionable ingredients" are you referring to?
May 26, 2021, 10:43 AM
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Are you just looking to take credit away from Trump for Operation Warp Speed and the FDA's Fast Track designation?
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: What "questionable ingredients" are you referring to?
May 26, 2021, 10:58 AM
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Johnson & Johnson used a human fetal cell line called PER.C6, developed from the retinal cells of an 18-week-old fetus aborted in 1985 in its production and manufacturing stages.
The mRNA type of Pfizer and Moderna are the first of their kind ever used on humans. Some people are not comfortable with something so new.
I am not a doctor or scientist, just read a few articles online and do not know what's what or who is making all these claims. I prefer to just stay clear, myself.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: What "questionable ingredients" are you referring to?
May 26, 2021, 11:37 AM
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Be careful with what you post then. 
mRNA tech is over 30 years old. It is not a complete unknown developed in the last 12 months. It is a mechanism for delivering information without an actual infectious source like a protein vaccine (basically requires the living pathogen to extrapolate). There is a very strong advantage if you need to roll out a vaccine quickly in large numbers.
The FDA had it as an approved method before covid but it was not really marketable. No previous mRNA vaccines were widely used because while there more unknown compared to protein or DNA vaccines, it was also strangely less effective (process maturity). For some reason, the mRDA approach was extremely effective with covid. We don't know why yet. Thus considering the resources needed to make market viability vs that of a protein vaccine, then there was little case. Covid changed the market.
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All-In [40875]
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here is a fact
May 27, 2021, 4:06 AM
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we don't know the long term effects if any from the new vaccines. I might be willing to take a chance based on preliminary data, but others might not. The fact is none of the Covid vaccines have FDA approval.
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Legend [16058]
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We don't know the long term effects of Covid 19 either***
May 27, 2021, 6:03 AM
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All-Pro [654]
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Clemson is not long-term, though
May 27, 2021, 9:57 AM
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By nature, being at Clemson is not long-term, though. COVID-19 may have long-term complications, even if only for a small fraction of people.
In the meantime, the short-term student experience at Clemson has always had dozens of specific & explicit rules for acceptance (including other vaccinations). This one doesn't seem any different outright, & wearing a mask allows BOTH sides to enroll at Clemson.
Frankly it's impressive to see Clemson get so far in front of it with a plan that's just as explicit, public, & inclusive.
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Freshman [-99]
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Re: We don't know the long term effects of Covid 19 either***
May 30, 2021, 7:05 PM
[ in reply to We don't know the long term effects of Covid 19 either*** ] |
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We also don’t know the long-term effects on society and children because of draconian lockdowns that were never founded in science.
Tons of doctors and scientists and psychiatrist and psychologists have said these lockdowns have been worse than the disease. The cure has been worse than the disease. The numbers have proven that Covid is nowhere near as deadly or dangerous as people on the left have made us to believe. The CDC sent out one report that said only 6% of people infected with Covid die from just Covid. They put out another report that said 80% of the people that died from Covid Were obese and most of them also had diabetes or were pre-diabetic.
The reality is unless you’re old like over 70 or unless you have wrong with serious health issues primarily those related to metabolic syndrome which is also the foundation of heart disease and cancer, then you have a little to nothing to worry about from Covid. Well under 1500 people under the age of 25 have died from Covid. Scientifically and per the CDC, in America, less than 1500 people under the age of 25 have died from Covid.
Covid is not a threat to children or young healthy people or people that are healthy in general. It’s just not. There is no proof no science and the statistics bear this out!
That doesn’t mean it’s not real. I’m not saying it’s not real. I’m not saying it’s not serious. But the fear mongering was over the top for purely political purposes! For power and control!
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Recruit [91]
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What a drama queen!
May 31, 2021, 7:10 AM
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Worse that red-headed idiot on fox news.
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Letterman [271]
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Re: We don't know the long term effects of Covid 19 either***
May 31, 2021, 12:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: We don't know the long term effects of Covid 19 either*** ] |
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I don't know how you can say that after COVID d*mn near ended both Justin Foster and XT's careers at Clemson. Foster had asthma that was made 10x worse after his COVID infection, and we all saw how sluggish and tired XT was for most of the season last year. XT does not have any comorbidities to my knowledge.
These were two previously healthy players that were stunted and debilitated by their COVID infections. It's no joke. You can't just make blanket statements like that. Part of the reason why it's so scary is that it impacts everyone differently. My dad was bedridden during his infection and my mom was asymptomatic when she got infected. There are multiple instances of long term effects of COVID (Myocarditis, or enlargement of the heart tissue) on previously healthy people. Come on, now.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: here is a fact
May 27, 2021, 10:17 AM
[ in reply to here is a fact ] |
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Neal, the vaccines do have FDA approval. They just have not had the full review process. The mechanisms such as mDNA have full approval and have had it for a bit of time now. The "lack of FDA approval" is a myth, and dangerous one at that.
Vaccines and even inoculation, in general, have NO long-term effects. Side-effects happen normally in short time after receiving the vaccine. You are not going to mutate in 10 years nor have something like a long-term safety exposure issue (say like mercury/asbestos). Many of our foods might have more significant long-term consequences.
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Legend [18782]
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People need to listen to medical experts more...
May 30, 2021, 11:32 AM
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and political hacks less. Especially when it comes to medical issues.
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Freshman [-99]
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Re: People need to listen to medical experts more...
May 30, 2021, 6:59 PM
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Yeah medical experts like Dr. Fauci? Not! The WHO, the FDA, the CDC, they have all been caught lying and selling propaganda. I’ll listen to real scientists but not the ones affiliated with the government!
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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Re: People need to listen to medical experts more...
May 31, 2021, 7:13 AM
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"medical experts like Dr. Fauci?" Let me guess. You found something on Youtube that overrides Fauci's 60-plus year career as an epidemiologist and long-time head of the CDC. You are what Trump privately refers to as "one of my useful idiots."
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Freshman [-99]
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Re: here is a fact
May 30, 2021, 6:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: here is a fact ] |
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They are not FDA approved and everything you wrote was PR in speculation. Brett and Heather Weinstein, both PhD’s in biology, both scientist, have questioned the vaccines and have not taken the vaccines are not gonna take the vaccines and if opted to use ivermectin instead. Stop lying and talking out your ###! You are not a virologist or an award-winning research scientist and there are plenty of them out there saying these vaccines are not proven could have serious safety problems and long-term effects and they are better other alternatives that the government is not looking into. Why? Profits! Crony capitalism! Power and control! As usual you prove yourself to be a clueless brainwashed far left lunatic. You sir are not following the science and you’re not being honest.
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Letterman [271]
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Re: here is a fact
May 31, 2021, 12:15 PM
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You right now. Simmer down there, Champ.
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Recruit [91]
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Full approval of the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine is a formality
May 31, 2021, 7:06 AM
[ in reply to here is a fact ] |
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at this point. They would not have given EUA for 12+ otherwise. We know it’s safer than the polio vaccine, for example. A matter of how long it takes to review the paperwork. The only reason it takes so long now is complications from the flu vaccine, particularly all the GBS cases in 1976, and we haven’t seen any sign of anything like that.
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Freshman [-99]
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Re: What "questionable ingredients" are you referring to?
May 30, 2021, 6:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: What "questionable ingredients" are you referring to? ] |
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But it is new in terms of using that technology in a vaccine. So you’re comparing apples and oranges. And even people like Brett Weinstein and his wife Heather both of which are PhD‘s in biology and used to be tenured professors at Evergreen State College which is the most liberal college in America both of them have decided not to get the vaccine because of their scientific analysis and both of them are Democrats and lifelong progressives.
You know what they are doing? They investigated Ivermectin and they are taking ivermectin. Which the data has proven can prevent and cure Covid. Yet the left and the Democrats and the media are trying to treat ivermectin like hydroxychloroquine and any other medication that despite being FDA approved and over the counter and parts of the world is being ignored.
Why is a cheap generic drug with proven antiviral capabilities that is extremely safe and over 200 studies around the world show it’s effectiveness against Covid why is that not being tested by the FDA, WHO, CDC, or any other government organization for its efficacy? Why are we only being pushed an expensive experimental vaccine as the only answer for Covid? If you can’t see this is economically driven there’s something wrong with you.
We could’ve stopped covered in its tracks months and months and months ago with Ivermectin. The reason Africa hasn’t been hit by Covid the way other places have is because ivermectin has been taken in Africa over the counter for malaria for decades.
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Head Coach [790]
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Re: What "questionable ingredients" are you referring to?
May 26, 2021, 11:46 AM
[ in reply to Re: What "questionable ingredients" are you referring to? ] |
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a) everyone has something in their body which has been tested on fetal cells or derived from nonconsented DNA. Ever hear of Henrietta Lacks? Where they biopsied her cervical cancer and then ending up created an immortal line of DNA? I mean nearly every medicine on the planet has been tested on stolen DNA from a woman's hoo ha. Let's discuss that.
b) mRNA has been trialed in usage against cancer for the last few years. Are these the first versions for a VACCINE? yep. But this technology has been in the works for decades.
I'm not a doctor either, but i go beyond Newsmax headlines.
So i hear your decision not to take the vaccine. But basically your choices are this
1) Don't take the vaccine: Eventually you will get a variant of Covid with which we have no idea the long term affects of it. Even if you are asymptomatic today, it will forever change your medical trajectory and insurance companies will certainly consider this as a pre existing condition and charge you more. This are facts.
2) You get the vaccine: You are getting the first instance of what is truly game changing technology for medical treatment and which will end cancer, HIV, the flu, malaria, etc. While Covid was rushed through approvals for good reasons, this technology has been around decades. There is a risk that in a mass vaccination situation the vaccine may cause long term unknown affects. But studies have shown the side affects are significantly less than long term Covid exposure. These are facts
So you make your decision and be prepared to never travel outside america again. Always be under the threat of long term lung and heart illness. But don't ask me or anyone else to pay for it. It's on you.
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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If everybody "thought" like him, I wonder how many people
May 26, 2021, 11:56 AM
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would have died from Covid by now?
Can you imagine where we would be if nobody had taken the vaccine?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: If everybody "thought" like him, I wonder how many people
May 26, 2021, 7:12 PM
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CU Medallion [64519]
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110%er [9677]
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No.***
May 30, 2021, 7:40 PM
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110%er [7657]
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies
May 26, 2021, 11:26 AM
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True. But potentially misleading.
The Covid-19 vaccine is approved for emergency use. So the vaccine is approved. It just didn't go through the normal approval process.
But in this case Clemson is NOT requiring the vaccine for access to its core service. It is providing an option. If you are not vaccinated, then Clemson is requiring a mask and screening - both of which are not experimental.
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CU Medallion [61530]
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What if the non-"fully vaccinated" student has had
May 27, 2021, 12:31 PM
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the COVID-19 virus, developed the antibodies, and is doing well? Why should they have to be forced to wear a mask? Fully-vaccinated does not mean you will not get the COVID-19 virus; it just means your symptoms will not be as severe. Likewise, for someone who has had the virus and survived.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: What if the non-"fully vaccinated" student has had
May 27, 2021, 1:05 PM
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Fewer than 1 in 10 of those that have been contracted Covid developed anti-bodies. So 9 in 10 could re-contract the virus and continue to spread it.
Fully vaccinated , depending on the vaccine trail conditions, means that anywhere from 15% to 5% will potentially become infected OR show symptoms.
So it is a 90% infection risk VS a 5% (two-shot)-15 (single)% infection risk.
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CU Medallion [61530]
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Interesting.
May 27, 2021, 2:29 PM
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That study is interesting but keep in my that reducing the rate of reinfection is not the same as resistance. It is one of those prime examples to be careful with data. First 85% female (mostly white) healthcare works are not representative as males, Hispanic, first responders have a higher risk so you have to take human risk behavior into this type and be very careful as to how it was applied.
The study is interesting and hopefully informs future considerations but you really can't take this approach and compare the % percentages. This was a scan/survey that saw the previous infected reinfected at a lower rate. However it is not controlled. For example, simple human behavior post-infection can account. With vaccines, the clinical trials and the scan/survey reinforce the finding but without that clinical side that account for some unaddressed variables. Also, other studies suggest that the same healthcare workers antibody response also decreases fairly rapidly, and while the 7 month scan kinda shows some of this behavior. Basically, while the autoimmune may retain memory, resistance does decline after infection. Again, with the study being white female healthcare workers that might see small/continuous exposure to the virus (thus potentially re-enforcing resistance like a follow-up shot) it could differ significantly for those that recover and then are exposed at a later time. It is interesting that resistance of those infected plateaus/limited to about 6-8 months.
In addition, immune response can vary widely even among ages. And while immune systems "remember" it does not equal resistance. Other studies suggest that those who had the virus have a better immune response to the first vaccine.
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Legend [18782]
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Just want to say thank you for taking the time to explain...
May 30, 2021, 11:23 AM
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It's all quite interesting.
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All-TigerNet [10809]
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All-Pro [654]
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That's true, & this vaccine took no time by comparison
May 27, 2021, 10:35 AM
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Many of the top virologists in the world have been working on a viable, safe vaccine for any coronavirus for decades, notably since the SARS/COVID breakout in 2003 that largely didn't affect us here in America but devastated other places (ex., it took a free Rolling Stones concert to get Toronto's economy rolling in the right direction).
The tricky part with coronavirus vaccines being developed since then is the ADE response, which is unique to coronaviruses. In simplest terms, the vaccine would be effective for non-infected people as well as people who previously had the disease, but if the vaccine was administered to someone carrying or infected with the virus then the side effects of the vaccine were vastly more harmful, including even being deadly, sometimes dramatically so.
These developments went on long enough for many of the world's top virologists to spend their entire careers only on coronaviruses & their treatment... but without results that didn't consistently exclude the ADE response.
These specialists worked together worldwide, too; its' not like there was a large group of virologists who could solve this problem but simply weren't working on it (like, say, if we needed more pilots). The ADE response is largely why I originally didn't expect to ever get a viable vaccine for this COVID-19 variant. Arguably, it was a relentlessly quick development in spite of the otherwise lack of expert virologists who could help work on it.
Now we have not just one but three separate & potentially viable coronavirus vaccines for the first time in human history? It's nothing short of transcendent; IF any of these vaccines end up being a long-term solution, it's so much more important than just treating this one disease. I compare it to the discovery of penicillin in terms of scientific discovery; the repression of the ADE response for ANY coronavirus goes immeasurably farther than COVID-19 alone.
It's all fascinating to me, but it's true that we don't know much about what to expect. This isn't like ANY other vaccine before it & I think the tricky part is we treat it like it is; we had a virus, we made a vaccine, and we're done and that's just how it works (rather than it being a potentially historic achievement). To say it was a surprise that we were actually able to create multiple vaccines for any coronavirus in roughly a year & without the ADE response would be a tremendous understatement for both me and many coronavirus virology experts.
In the meantime, and this part may be even more crucial, we did a tremendous job of learning & developing treatments to vastly reduce the MORBIDITY of COVID-19. Both this and the vaccines go hand-in-hand; they give all of us two separate but reliably viable choices; get a vaccine, or get the disease & treat it.
It's obviously much more complicated than that, but IMO Clemson's ability to create an explicit plan for both sides is exceptional. The tricky part isn't from those decisions, but rather that many of the people who don't want to ever take a vaccine for COVID-19 (a viable, realistic choice) are also largely against anything else that helps prevent the spread outright, such as wearing a face mask. Frankly I'd still love to see us get more comfortable with masks outright for other sicknesses rather than just COVID-19 & for the foreseeable future, but in the meantime the ONLY thing groups like Clemson can do is to simply be clear about the paths to participate in Clemson education, which is what this whole thing is about.
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110%er [9677]
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So you think people should walk around with our faces covered up all the time?
1
May 31, 2021, 7:45 AM
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In fear of possibly getting sick?
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110%er [7169]
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It is different for the Covid Vaccines. Sadly you know it.
May 26, 2021, 9:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies ] |
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You're talking about an FDA "Emergency" use vaccine. Not an FDA Approved vaccine with years of rigorous testing or results. I side with the parents and students who do not wish to be guvment guinea pigs. Remember this age group aren't the "highly" likely to develop serious complications from Covid. If your kid or you as a faculty member is vaccinated, why you worried?
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Orange Blooded [3512]
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Then all the students have to do is wear a mask
May 27, 2021, 9:37 AM
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And get tested...Clemson is not forcing anyone to get the vaccine.
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All-Pro [654]
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I agree, but we still have to listen
May 27, 2021, 10:45 AM
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You're not wrong, not at all. Both sides have an explicitly clear choice.
The reason they're upset is wearing a mask is now like wearing a giant scarlet letter (& on their face, no less). They consider it a privacy issue as well.
I think they're wrong outright, and you have to be willing to relinquish a certain amount of privacy & anonymity to participate at any public university (including enrolling at Clemson before COVID-19 existed), but changing their minds through education may be fleeting.
Can't blame Clemson for trying, though. In fact, I celebrate Clemson's public & explicit conditions for enrollment; they're clear, specific & easy to understand.
The other side, so to speak, has viable points for privacy. But it's up to Clemson to make choices like this & deal with the shortfall, particularly since I think we're all painfully aware there is no perfect solution; at some point you just have to make a decision, & the ones made here by Clemson University seem deliberately good enough for both sides to participate & enroll.
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Freshman [-99]
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Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies
May 30, 2021, 6:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies ] |
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I’m so tired of seeing this stupid take.
When I went to Clemson in 1984 and I’ve asked my mother for confirmation but I don’t ever remember having to turn over any medical records and my mother has confirmed that.
Furthermore, that doesn’t mean it’s right. It’s actually unconstitutional to require a vaccine. And just because schools might require it and it’s something that’s been done for a long time doesn’t mean it’s not a violation of civil liberties. It doesn’t mean it’s right.
Furthermore, do you know what this sounds like? Saying schools have required vaccines for years so why is this different? First that’s just dumb because it is different. But it sounds like when a parent goes to punish a child for getting arrested for vandalism and the child says that Billy and Johnny were doing it too!
Not only that you’re making a Apples and oranges comparison. You’re talking about an experimental drug that is not FDA approved that is only being issued with NIH emergency authorization with vaccines that have been around for generations. You’re making a ridiculous comparison.
And anyone that wants to refute my comment that it’s unconstitutional I will point that during the Bush administration Donald Rumsfeld put in a policy where they wanted to give experimental vaccines to soldiers that were going to the Middle East. Some of those soldiers refused and took the military and the government to court and they won. A federal judge said you cannot be forced to take a vaccine. And these were people in the military. Why is that so important? Because when you join the military you do sign over lots of personal freedoms and civil liberties. The military does have controls over you that they do not have over the general citizenry. So when a federal judge says somebody in the military cannot be forced to take a vaccine there is no way in hell the government can force every day citizens to take a vaccine, especially one that is experimental and not FDA approved.
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Recruit [91]
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Your memory is bad
May 31, 2021, 7:35 AM
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I was at Clemson in 1984. We had to prove vaccination (measles/mumps/rubella) and many of us had to get revaccinated because the vaccines we got as children weren’t effective.
And you know many people were discharged from the military for refusing vaccines, right? That’s the official reason the horned Trumper at the riot was kicked from the navy.
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All-Pro [686]
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Re: Your memory is bad
May 31, 2021, 1:01 PM
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Graduated in 2000 and definitely had to show vaccination card as a freshman. I only remember this because I didn’t have what I needed and had to walk back and forth to Redfern my first couple days.
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Freshman [-99]
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies
May 26, 2021, 10:50 AM
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Some people are idiots too. Civil liberties, shesh. They do not even know the 10th amendment.
First, this is a clear use of the police power (Health safety general welfare) which is both a longstanding English law tradition carried over and embedded in the constitution (10th) that allows states to regulate behavior. At the core: comes from the english approach that "use that which is yours so as not to injure others" and "the welfare of the people shall be the supreme law". This has been vetted multiple times that the "state" can (and will) specify what a person can and can not do within the score of the police power when interacting with the public.
Any suit would have to show that those are being barred access - which they are not. Vaccinated and vaccinated people are provided access and the only difference is the requirements to mix in a given space.
Given that there are those unable to receive the vaccination, an completely unregulated scenario could/would lead to a situation that they are barred or at least unable to access. They would still need to comply with the regs but just like providing wheelchair access to buildings, if the normal ambulatory person has to walk further to an entrance, then access trumps convenience. This is why universities can require specific vaccines - to provide access and promote general welfare.
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Team Captain [487]
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Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies
May 26, 2021, 9:15 PM
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If the vaccine works why should anyone have to wear a mask?
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All-In [25697]
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Are you just not paying attention
May 26, 2021, 11:34 PM
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or pretending that you don’t have access to the same information as the rest of the public? Seriously. The ignorance is astounding.
- The vaccine provides 94% to 95% protection. There’s no way to know who the 5% or 6%
might be who don’t respond like the 94/95%. So there are times you’d still want to wear a mask.
- There’s a chance that a vaccinated person could be an asymptomatic carrier. We don’t have definitive data on that. So, in order to protect others (obviously a foreign concept to the covid deniers and antivax loons) there are times you’d still want to wear a mask.
- Variants. There’s a chance a variant could develop (likely in the same population of covid deniers and antivax wackos). So there are times when you’d still want to wear a mask.
There are other good reasons. But those won’t matter to you either. This site has just become embarrassing for Clemson. Never knew we had so many deliberately stupid mouth-breather drooling morons associated with the University.
Have the last word. I won’t be reading it.
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Team Captain [487]
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Re: Are you just not paying attention***
May 27, 2021, 12:44 AM
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Are you just not paying attention***
May 27, 2021, 10:05 AM
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If vaccines work, why do we still need masks?
Because no everyone has access to vaccines yet. You still have those with medical conditions (beyond ignorance) that are unable to access the treatment - thus they rely on the "herd" resistance for their protection. Right now, ONLY 50% of the ADULT population has had at least one shot of a vaccine. That isn't enough.
Because vaccines and public health are based on statistics.
As an example: Assume 1 person with covid interacts and infects 30 people (we do know that this can be a lot higher, a student in five classes of 25 students each could have the "reach" of several hundred. So...
In four infection cycles... or just about 1-2 weeks
1 X 30 X 30 X 30 = 27,000 infections.
And this is why the virus was so bad. Sure the mortality rate with medical treatment is low Sub 2% based on preexisting conditions, etc. BUT this virus can multiply faster than out healthcare system can adsorb it... and the mortality rate can become 10%+ With only 140 ICU in a Metro area of 1/2 million, you would see what is happening in India now, or what happened in Italy a year ago. In two weeks, you could have an area go from 27,000 infections whereby only 3% need ICU... you need 810 ICU units. Again, you only have 140 units so hundreds, if not thousands would die in waiting rooms.
Distancing/Masks/Limiting Social events was a measure to minimize the spike in cases, and give our healthcare workers a chance and keep us within the capacity of our healthcare system.
Even if masks and 6 feed were only 10% effective, that is a lot better than you think. Then it would be (30*0.9):
1 X 27 X 27 X 27 = 19.683 Infections. Actually nearly a 1/3 overall reduction in cases. Then you would only need 590 ICUs. SWe know that these measure were more effective but when someone says 10% reduction in transmission, that is a compounded effect.
Lets get back to the Vaccines. IF 45% of the population have 94% resistance (ignoring the singe-shot option for a this examples. You would have (30 * (0.45* 0.94)) = 12.69 Infections per cycle
1 X 12.69 X 12.69 X 12.69 = 2,044 infections (a 92% reduction in cases!!!! and only 62 will need an ICU!!!!) Add just a 10% effective from continued mask usage, etc while more can get vaccinated becomes 1,489 infections so that 10% becomes 25% over time.
Finally, if we can get to 75%+ (30 * (0.75* 0.94) then it becomes:
1X 8.85 X 8.85 X 8.85 = 693 infections. Or nearly a 98% reduction in infections. At that point, the likelihood for the virus for "finding" a host becomes harder and harder and you see the vectors dead-ending.
You got to look at it as that we are the "food source" for the the virus. You remove the "food" then the carrying capacity decreases and the virus has a population crash. Remove enough "food" and the virus becomes functionally extinct.
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Team Captain [487]
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Re: Are you just not paying attention
May 27, 2021, 1:37 AM
[ in reply to Are you just not paying attention ] |
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1% die mostly 80 & up with comorbidities & you’re touting a vaccine with a 95% success rate, ok.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: Are you just not paying attention
May 27, 2021, 8:42 AM
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1% is a low number to you? If every American caught the virus and 1% died from it we'd have over 3 million deaths. I'm not arguing over what percentage of people would die in that situation, only that using 1% as if it's not a big deal at all isn't making your point like you think it is.
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Team Captain [487]
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Re: Are you just not paying attention
May 27, 2021, 10:07 AM
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6% of deaths occurred from Covid alone that makes the 1% of deaths from Covid an even smaller #. 94% of Covid deaths were in cases where the deceased had a comorbidity that may have killed them anyway. https://nbc25news.com/news/local/cdc-94-of-covid-19-deaths-had-underlying-medical-conditions CDC: 94% of Covid-19 deaths had underlying medical conditions ATLANTA, Ga. (WEYI) - The Centers for Disease Control released information showing how many people who died from COVID-19 had comorbidities or underlying conditions as they are sometimes referred to by doctors. RELATED LINK: According to the CDC, comorbidity is defined as: " more than one disease or condition is present in the same person at the same time. Conditions described as comorbidities are often chronic or long-term conditions.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Are you just not paying attention
May 27, 2021, 10:47 AM
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You are incorrect in you interpretation of that data.
I will give you an easier example about how to understand comorbidity.
Last year, my father died of pulmonary fibrosis (PF) (scaring of the lung whereby the lung tissue can't function). His cause of death was cardiac arrest. What happened? My father was nearly 4 years into his PF diagnosis (which is about normal in this terminal condition) and only 3 weeks into his lung cancer diagnosis. The day before he passed, we was at 25% lung capacity and declining rapidly. What happens when you reach this point is that you heart tried to make up for and then fails. His heart was generally healthy. However, how it is reported, you need cardiac arrest with both lung cancer and PF as comorbidity factors. It is a quirk in how to read this data as PF was what lead to my father death even if it is not list.
So when you are reading these stats and displaying this information, it is incorrect.
Generally, Covid doesn't "kill", it causes other items, like lung failure, cardiac arrest. Some of the comorbidity aspects like diabetes or obesity might be listed but they could be otherwise healthy, so they were not just going to die without covid. Its like saying "guns don't kill people, bullets do" and missing the point.
Keep in mind 30-50% on the NON-elderly population has a per-existing condition. That skyrockets with the elderly.
Finally, you have to consider that this is just a scan of the death certificate. Again, reading another quirk. If you go by my father's death certificate, you would point towards heart failure when really it was the PE (a co-condition).
Thus, when looking at the death certificate, respiratory failure is #1 with covid cases. What cause this? Covid - even if covid isn't listed as the "sole cause".
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Are you just not paying attention
May 27, 2021, 10:49 AM
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And this is what I think about the news cycle
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All-Pro [654]
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1% is a LOT
May 27, 2021, 10:51 AM
[ in reply to Re: Are you just not paying attention ] |
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If I told you I would give you 1% of a billion dollars, you wouldn't think twice, right?
1% morbidity of a disease that propagates in the throat as vastly & rapidly as COVID-19 is a legitimate concern, always.
We've dramatically gotten better at preventing morbidity from the disease, and that deserves to be celebrated.
A small sacrifice of otherwise incidental privacy is a miniscule price to pay for most, but for the rest, it must be a difficult thing, for sure. I get that. It sounds like Clemson gets that, too. But you have to make a decision for yourself at some point. Clemson has made that choice, & I think it's worth celebrating outright. If that decision is enough to make some students choose to get their education elsewhere, that's difficult, even if it's not the first time it's happened for other reasons. But that, too, is a personal choice.
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Standout [330]
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Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies
May 30, 2021, 10:52 AM
[ in reply to Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies ] |
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True if vaccine works then why the masks and the concern if someone does not get the vaccine especially if we get herd immunity.
Requiring nonvax students to wear masks while walking around campus is laughable. Are there going to be campus police checking the students vaccine status while walking around campus. “Show me your papers”.
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Team Captain [487]
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CU Medallion [65037]
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The "Don't Tread on Me" crowd literally is never happy
May 26, 2021, 10:53 AM
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unless they are UNhappy about something. This too shall pass.
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110%er [6825]
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Joined: 7/20/18
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Re: The "Don't Tread on Me" crowd literally is never happy
May 26, 2021, 11:04 AM
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Hey now, until it got usurped in the political dialogue I was a "don't tread on me".
What irks me is that ignorant folks will pump a "civil liberties issue" up when there is none and then completely cheer on extreme and unnecessary government overreach because their "tribe" is doing the overreach.
Then you have other that pass laws about not passing laws and we are like what the founding fathers....
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110%er [9677]
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Good.***
May 26, 2021, 11:16 AM
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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Good grief
May 26, 2021, 1:00 PM
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If people are really scared of the vaccine, having to wear a mask seems like a small price to pay for letting the other 1/2 to 2/3 of the population be their guinea pigs.
Hell, if the vaccine is really that scary there SHOULD even be some level of gratitude to those getting the vaccine and ultimately providing those that refuse with herd immunity. They are ultimately getting most of the benefit of the vaccine without any of the alleged risk.
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Orange Blooded [2420]
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Re: Good grief
May 26, 2021, 7:02 PM
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Why are they not doing a blood test to see if you already have immunity before giving the vaccine?
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Thank you
May 27, 2021, 5:34 AM
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I am not sure if I got Covid back at the end of May/June of last year. Got really sick after flying to Florida to buy a car/drive it back. It was about 5 days after that that I had congestion in which I absolutely could not move (cough up) and was puking/had liquid stomach (had to be cautious not to loose either at the slightest movement). Took about 3 days before I started being able to cough that stuff up. At about a week in I lost my sense of taste for like 5 days. Still feeling bad I finally went to an urgent care, where I was told that I had a slight fever and had a virus of some sort and was sent to take the COVID-19 test the following day. By the time I got to that screen my fever was gone and I felt better for the most part. It had been 2 weeks and i was told that it was negative. I wish they would have done a blood test to see if I had had it instead of the test that looks for a person who is actively sick. The doctor the day before had said I was on the back end of my sickness and there wasn't anything that could be done for me. I am not sure how the test that they gave me would read, being that it had been 2 weeks by the time I sat in line (in my car) for hours. I had been at home alone for 13 days. The first 3/4 days I did not so much as look at the phone. Causing my friends and family to freak out but did reach out soon as I was not completely miserable.
I worked in public from July to January there after maskless and never got a sniffle. Have not worried at all and have not gotten sick. I have a history of having chronic bronchitis and did not even get that this past year. Also have had adverse reactions to medicine and gotten dog sick after taking the only flu shot that I ever took and the sickest that I ever been was my senior of high school, when I went from D W Daniel High School in Clemson to Pebblebrook High School in Cobb Co GA. That was a few days after having to get the additional vaccine shots that GA required and SC had not.
I am definitely concerned about the whole guinea pig ordeal , as well as my history. Enough that I will take whatever is naturally going to happen to me. I worry about what I put into my body. Don't eat pork, shellfish, or any bottom feeding scavenger. I would not take any medication like my ex fiancée took when I was with her. It was for some thyroid condition and pork was used at some level. I have my reasons and do not think I should be forced, nor would I want my child (do not have blood but view my ex girlfriends' children as such) to be subjected to have to do so. My ex's daughter is 18 years old and goes to Clemson. I do not know if she has taken the vaccine or not, as I am typing this. That will/was her decision.
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CU Guru [1788]
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Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies
May 26, 2021, 9:31 PM
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Just get your kid the vaccine and ####... we've had enough political BS don't ya all think? I'm not a proponent of it, but my daughter got it to attend. If it makes the administration and student body feel safer then what is the problem???
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CU Guru [1933]
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Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies
May 26, 2021, 9:43 PM
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No one is forcing anyone to take the vaccine. If people have been wearing masks for 14 months now, what is the big deal? It's simple, if you don't want to wear a mask, get the vaccine. If you don't want to get the vaccine, wear a mask.
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All-TigerNet [12233]
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I can't see how the parents will win a potential lawsuit...
May 26, 2021, 11:09 PM
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Clemson is not refusing to allow un-vaccinated students to attend class - the University is just requiring them to continue wearing masks IAW public health guidelines/policy. What exactly is the civil right that is being violated?
Even though I think wearing masks is largely a waste of time and do very little to protect from COVID-19 (unless the mask is N95 grade or better which 99% of the masks being worn are not), I doubt most courts will find this mask wearing requirement as violating one's civil rights so long as public health policy supports the University's position.
All that being said, I personally don't understand why folks over 18 don't want to take the vaccine but to each their own. I've had every shot known to man when I was in the Army. Various Plague shots, Anthrax, small pox, yellow fever, dengue vaccine, and tons more than I can't even spell. I wasn't given a choice in getting these vaccines as it was mandatory before being deployed to all kinds of 3rd world crap holes on the planet. I've had the COVID-19 shots (Pfizer) and found it to a big "nothing burger" with a lot less side effects than some of the stuff the Army pumped in me...
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All-Pro [654]
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Just to answer your questions
May 27, 2021, 11:01 AM
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All the vaccines for diseases you mentioned, none of them were coronaviruses, though.
For the record, I encourage vaccination, but just to answer your question, vaccines for any coronavirus are legitimately unique. In fact, it's literally never been done before now in spite of decades of attempts.
The difference with coronavirus vaccinations is what's called an ADE response. Basically it means the vaccine is safe for people without the disease and people that formerly had it... but people who HAVE the disease, including if they are asymptomatic, it was too often dangerous & even deadly.
Long story short, this coronavirus vaccine development without the ADE response is an enormous scientific discovery. Frankly I'm still surprised not just that we did it, but that we didn't make a bigger deal out of it.
As for civil rights, while I disagree with their argument, the argument they're making is wearing a mask is basically like wearing a giant scarlet letter on their face to let people know certain information about them they'd rather not make public.
Masks, however, I mean, don't take this the wrong way, just trying to help answer your questions, but COVID-19 propagates in the throat and at an incredibly vast rate, more than nearly any other disease before it and certainly more than any of its type. The idea of any kind of face covering not having a measurable effect on the spread of particulates from a disease that propagates as vastly as COVID-19 seems naïve is all, like having an insect swarm then findind a bug in your house and therefore deciding your window screens are useless. Masks aren't 100% by nature, but IMO anything that helps any amount of spread for something that propagates so wildly is enough to understand being mandatory for a place like Clemson if they so choose, know what I mean?
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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Re: I can't see how the parents will win a potential lawsuit...
May 31, 2021, 7:24 AM
[ in reply to I can't see how the parents will win a potential lawsuit... ] |
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I survived a freaking year teaching in a packed classroom without getting covid, as well as mostly going daily to grocery stores, by wearing a mask, and having the other people around me wear a mask (thank you Publix!). So yes, masks really do work.
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Team Captain [487]
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Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies
May 27, 2021, 1:06 AM
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Chloroquine, Ivermectin, D3, C & zinc no vaccine necessary. GLTA!
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Team Captain [487]
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Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies
May 27, 2021, 1:08 AM
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China paid trolls can #### right off.
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Orange Blooded [3131]
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Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies
May 27, 2021, 7:44 AM
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This is such a great example of media spin. The local media went with headlines like "Clemson *requires* vaccine for students to opt out of testing." They could just as easily have said "Clemson eases restrictions for vaccinated students" or "Clemson offers to treat students like adults if they make adult choices."
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110%er [5121]
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Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies
May 27, 2021, 9:30 AM
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If the parents can’t handle their little precious snowflakes either getting the vaccine or alternately wearing a mask, they should find another school to throw money at. Clemson can and will stick to this. If they sue I hope Clemson counter sues them for a fortune in lawyer fees.
The same rule (or stricter) will be implemented everywhere so maybe precious will have to just go get a job. Of course their employer may require a mask too...
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CU Medallion [64519]
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This is just further proof...
May 27, 2021, 12:03 PM
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that some people are too ******* stupid for their own good.
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Rock Defender [53]
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No shot? Enjoy Tri-County Tech
May 27, 2021, 4:01 PM
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1st Rounder [600]
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Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies
May 30, 2021, 8:59 PM
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I think Clemson’s approach is reasonable. People who don’t like it can go somewhere else- just like the requirement to live in dorms your freshman year. Some could say that is an infringement of their liberty but they have the option to go somewhere where campus residence is not required or somewhere where there are no immunization requirements. Free choice!
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Orange Blooded [4896]
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Remember when this drug was safe?
May 30, 2021, 11:02 PM
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https://helix.northwestern.edu/article/thalidomide-tragedy-lessons-drug-safety-and-regulation![]() Many children in the 1960's, like the kindergartner pictured above, were born with phocomelia as a side effect of the drug thalidomide, resulting in the shortening or absence of limbs. (Photo by Leonard McCombe//Time Life Pictures/Getty Images)
Sorry, but why would an 18 year old whose body and brain hasn’t fully matured risk this? To protect against a virus that is statistically less dangerous than riding in a car?
I don’t blame the parents one bit.
I also think it is illegal under McMaster’s recent executive order which prohibits SC public bodies from requiring masks or vaccine passports.
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CU Medallion [50500]
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I think many executive orders are illegal
May 31, 2021, 7:46 AM
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especially when they clearly go against constitutional separation of power stipulations and personal rights guaranteed in the amendments.
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Recruit [91]
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It’s a magic drug for some people
May 31, 2021, 7:59 AM
[ in reply to Remember when this drug was safe? ] |
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But it was not approved in the US at that time. I knew someone who likely lived an extra ten years partly because of thalidomide. The birth defects were mostly in Europe a long time ago and it’s only been approved in the US since 98. Women of child-bearing age do not even touch it in pharmacies.
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Freshman [-100]
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Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies
May 31, 2021, 11:12 AM
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Clemson is an institution of higher learning. As a graduate with 2 advanced degrees from Clemson I would be appreciated if comments on this post could reflect a knowledge of science and government.
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CU Guru [1923]
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Re: Some parents considering legal action over Clemson policies
May 31, 2021, 8:40 PM
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So if you don’t want to get the vaccine for whatever reason can we start signing official waiver forms saying I am responsible for my own well being and will not sue anyone or institution if I catch Covid. This is just one more tool of division that we as a country do not need. I was curious as to the Covid numbers for the end of May 2020 and the numbers for end of May 2021 since so many have gotten the vaccine and so many have natural antibodies after catching covid and I was a little surprised. So my quick research showed about 21000 new cases per week in 2020 for the USA and about 22000 new cases for the USA in 2021. I sure hope these numbers mean nothing and the worst is behind us, but what if the government starts telling us we have to get vaccinated every year? Where does the government overreach end?
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