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YOUR BALANCE
If a vaccine is required to attend CU games will you get it?
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If a vaccine is required to attend CU games will you get it?


Aug 10, 2020, 2:17 PM

Just curious. I’m on the fence personally.

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I can watch a season or two from home


Aug 10, 2020, 2:19 PM

and go to away games or bowl games.

At 43, I'm in no rush. I'll wait and see how it goes for those who need it more than me.

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Re: If a vaccine is required to attend CU games will you get it?


Aug 10, 2020, 2:20 PM

No...

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No, I wouldn't get it.


Aug 10, 2020, 2:20 PM

I am very much against mandating vaccines. It's way more invasive (and potentially much more dangerous) than requiring people to wear masks.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


A mask is more effective against acquiring COVID


Aug 10, 2020, 2:43 PM

than a vaccine engineered specifically for that purpose?

Wut?

Herd immunity is the only way back to a normal life. A vaccine will speed that up
tremendously.

To not get a vaccine when it is available is the same thing as not wearing mask now.

If you want this crap over with as soon as possible get the vaccine.

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Huh?


Aug 10, 2020, 3:08 PM

I'm not comparing the efficacy of masks versus vaccines. It's ridiculous that you inferred that from my post.

Wearing a mask is safe and painless. It causes no harm. A vaccine, while potentially effective, is also potentially harmful. The decision on whether to get a COVID vaccine or not is way more complicated than you make it out to be.

Any discussion of vaccines typically evolves into a debate over mandated vaccines. I disagree with mandated vaccines, because the government has no right to force someone to get a vaccine. And in this case, it would be a vaccine that has been fast-tracked with comparatively little testing for efficacy, and zero testing for long-term safety. I realize that it might be a worthwhile risk for some people, especially those with a lot of comorbidities, advanced age, etc. But many people won't be willing to take that gamble, and I wouldn't blame them.

My point is that anyone who opposes mandated mask wearing (which I don't) should absolutely oppose mandated vaccination, since the latter is a significant infringement on individual rights.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Huh?


Aug 10, 2020, 4:20 PM

Judge,

I always appreciate your logical approach, but here is a statement that i don't quite get:

I disagree with mandated vaccines, because the government has no right to force someone to get a vaccine.

If the vaccine contributes to the general welfare of the society, why doesn't the government have the right to require one ? Would you say the same about small pox or TB ? The government requires any number of safety and sanitation standards already, why is this one different ?

I DO take your point that it is possible that this particular vaccine, having been rushed through the process, might be riskier, but I am not sure that addresses the government's rights issue that you have raised.

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Thanks for your reply.


Aug 11, 2020, 12:01 AM

I believe that people should have a right to decide what is best for their body, even if it isn’t necessarily best for the common good. Your body’s internal environment is completely your business, unless there is another human life inside it (pregnancy).

The science in support of a vaccine should be presented to the public. Those who want it should be free to get it, while those who don’t want it shouldn’t be forced to.

If we mandate vaccines because “it’s best for the common good,” what’s next? Should we mandate whether people can drink or smoke? Should we mandate what they eat? Should we mandate how much they weigh? It’s a very slippery slope.

If we are making decisions just for the common good, while minimizing individual liberty, then we are a socialist country. I’m not a fan of that at all.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: A mask is more effective against acquiring COVID


Aug 11, 2020, 6:27 AM [ in reply to A mask is more effective against acquiring COVID ]

The same people that think they are Paul Revere for not wearing a mask at Walmart won’t get a vaccine either. So it will ll last longer and be worse than necessary.

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Right now..no. I don't get flu shots I don't plan to


Aug 10, 2020, 2:22 PM

Get covid shots

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Geville Tiger on Clemson football , "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Is it made in China?***


Aug 10, 2020, 2:28 PM



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Unfortunately, most all of our medications


Aug 10, 2020, 3:36 PM

are made in China.

I have heard that the USA can now produce the majority our generic medications for about the same cost, but we haven't brought it back to be "Made in the USA". :(

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"When I was young, I was sure of many things; now there are only two things of which I am sure: one is, that I am a miserable sinner; and the other, that Christ is an all-sufficient Saviour. He is well-taught who learns these two lessons." -John Newton


You would be right, sir.


Aug 10, 2020, 6:25 PM

:(

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Re: If a vaccine is required to attend CU games will you get it?


Aug 10, 2020, 2:30 PM

I prefer watching from home. Also, I had Covid already and didn't get that sick, so I wont use the vaccine for a few more years until I am a little older.

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Not getting a vaccine, but I guarantee you that


Aug 10, 2020, 2:34 PM

once a vaccine has been developed and is available, there will be very serious and strong movements in Congress to make it mandatory and/or require proof of vaccination to do certain things like fly or public transportation.

I have no problem with vaccines. They're a great thing for those who need them. I've never gotten the flu vaccine and never had the flu, so why get the vaccine? I have the same perspective regarding COVID, but more with viruses in general than with it specifically. I don't take medicine I don't need, period.

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Re: Not getting a vaccine, but I guarantee you that


Aug 10, 2020, 3:33 PM

If you have never truly had the flu - which congrats - likely your success is because other folks around you got the flu shot. Even with the hyper-mutating flu, those that are getting the shot are doing those that don't a lot of benefit.

The value of a vaccines work via numbers game, not individual defense. A lot of vaccines are not 100% Sure there is an individual benefit but defeating a virus has to be done at a systematic level.

Think of the vaccine as a filter. If only a few people get it, then you have something like a tennis racket. Really does not work. Get enough and it becomes a screen door and then a lot is like a hepa filter. If you are tying to keep out tennis balls, a tennis racket works. A screen door for mosquito, etc. Viruses need a very fine filter.

Lets say we get a 40% effective vaccine and only 70% get the shot. Off 1,000 people, we are looking at 280 that will not transit the virus via the vaccine. That means about 28% that are exposed will not transmit. The virus now has 28% fewer paths. Not great but not bad. But if one person can infect 15 people with normal activity, then without the vaccine, you could have 4 people spreading it to 60 people in one infection cycle or 900 in two cycles. 13,500 in three cycles

Now take that 40/70 item; of the four initial cases, only three spread the virus and those that exposed to the three, only 9 catch the virus. Thus, in this scenario 3 initial cases spread it to 9 people each. 36 new cases in the first cycle and then 324 the second cycle. 2,916 in three cycles. That is a 79% reduction in the number of cases.

Of course, if folks limited their social exposure and only cam into contact 3 people per cycle - with or without the vaccine, the infection rate would be very low. Only 64 people on that second cycle or 264 on that third. that is how you stop it. Add the vaccine and 4 + 40/70 and that 3rd cycle would only infect 108 - wowzers

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Spot on and well said future doc


Aug 10, 2020, 3:54 PM

Let’s not forget what vaccines did to polio, measles and other infectious diseases that are know long gone. Best of luck on your future in medicine!

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Re: Spot on and well said future doc


Aug 10, 2020, 7:51 PM

Thanks, I am a Doc but not medicine. I see blood and I am passed out on the floor. Would have loved to gone the medical route- I find the dermo route fascinating. But I have some reflex that just knocks me out with the inside squishy side. Oh well. BUT as a transportation Doc I GET vectors. I can't stand the sight of blood but stick me in a horrific traffic jam and I am happy working out solutions.

My best friend and former roommate is an epidemiologist. We used to joke that we were the same profession just seeking opposite results. I looked to speed up spread (ie solve traffic, remove congestion, up those average speeds) he did the limiting infection/transmission rates. We have since talked and I said the transpo folks "won" Covid because VMT are back above pre-covid normals before he got thing in check. Heck he owes me a beer for "winning". I owe him a keg.

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Re: Not getting a vaccine, but I guarantee you that


Aug 11, 2020, 1:20 AM [ in reply to Re: Not getting a vaccine, but I guarantee you that ]

Got tired of reading your long post. But I have not had a Flu vaccine since 2008. Since 2009 i have flown 1.3million miles on airlines with 90% being Delta. Just turned 50, been on every Continent since 2009 except Antarctica. I have been to basically all of Europe, Dubai, India, S Africa, Australia 15times (only recall # because my fave), been Mexico, Mexico City, Sao Paulo, etc, etc. I can assure you I wasn't protected from flu because everyone in my surroundings had vaccinated.

I haven't had the flu once since I quit taking vaccines. I had a few colds. In last 12yrs, probably had 2 z-packs. But I had the flu almost once a year prior when I was taking vaccines. Also, I was a cancer patient taking radiation, chemo, interferon, etc, throughout a lot of my travels from 2010-2016. To he flu is ever changing, they notoriously say that the manufacturers made the wrong guess this season and the vaccine is only 10% effective. Flu vaccines are money generators for pharma and family practioner's are sold the bill of goods. But in my 8yrs of dealing with oncologists, none of them have ever expressed their belief in flu vaccines and often recommended against. I took their advice and haven't had the flu.

I can assure you that a large number of deaths this year that were contributed to Covid were probably caused by Flu, driving those numbers up. Can't hardly find numbers on flu death rates because the media is driving this circus.

I might, or I might not get a CV shot when available, but I don't want my govt to mandate it. That said, I'm not gonna wear a mask the rest of my life in public either. If you can smell a fart thru your mask, then you can still get CV. I can assure you I have smelled flatulence with a medical mask on.

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Re: Not getting a vaccine, but I guarantee you that


Aug 11, 2020, 8:58 AM

First of all, I share a deep resistance to Gov. mandating the flu shot to the general public. I am fine for the government to require it for a trade in non-common service (ie in person public schools) but beyond that, it should be recommended, not required.

That being said, while I disagree: the police power (constitutionally) the government does have the legal authority to mandate a vaccine shot. Again, I disagree but that option is on the table from a legal standpoint. Lets say we get a 40% effective vaccine and only 70% get the shot. Off 1,000 people, we are looking at 280 that will not transit the virus via the vaccine. That means about 28% that are exposed will not transmit. The virus now has 28% fewer paths. Not great but not bad.

2nd - Your stats might be leading you to incorrect assumptions. A few of those countries have higher vaccination rates than you might think. You only have about a 5-20% chance to get the flu so zero cases in the past 10 years is still within normal. Finally, the Flu can be asymptomatic too. You can still get and spread the flu without knowing it. Estimations are as high as 30-50% of those with the flu will show no/minimal signs. You have have had it and did not know.

For example upto about 2/3 of Australians will get a Flu shot. Considering the population distribution of the Aussies, you might be in a concentration of folks with the shot. In addition, if you are flying and traveling, those traveling around you are more likely to have the shot as well. Airfare on US-linked trips is expensive. So those developing countries that can fly do have the income to receive the shot. So you are in a weird bubble there.

Now, back to the US case. About 47% of Americans get the shot. I bet those that are frequent flyers are even higher but we will just round to 50% to make the math easier. Next, it is well documented that the Flu shot is between 40-60% effective. Lets split the middle again and call it 50% effective.

Going back to my previous example, if 4 people come into contact with 15 each to spread the virus, then per cycle, we will see the infection cycle will go from 4 to 60 to 900 to 13,500

With the flu shot, that 4 individuals is cut down to 3 and can only spread it to (rounding) 11 (11.25) people so the infection cycle will go from 3 to 34 to 383 to 4,303 - Or a nearly 70% reduction is cases with just half the folks getting the 50% effective flu shot.

That 70% reduction with a 50% effective shot and 50% participation is a HUGE decline and why a vaccine is more important from a general welfare perspective.

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Those same congressional leaders...


Aug 10, 2020, 4:06 PM [ in reply to Not getting a vaccine, but I guarantee you that ]

will just happen to be heavily invested in the company that makes the drug and charges health insurance providers upwards of $1,500 per dose.

330 million people (just in the US) x $1,500 = a pretty hefty payday ($450 million).

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: Those same congressional leaders...


Aug 10, 2020, 4:27 PM

that's actually $495,000,000,000

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probably not for a while.....


Aug 10, 2020, 2:43 PM

I get the flu shot every year and have never had the flu, so I'm not against vaccines, but I'll let vaccine age a little bit before I'm the guinea pig for it...................not to mention I'm not falling for the fear mongering hysteria narrative that's being pumped into the public. It's a real virus and dangerous to certain people, but if it's as transmissible as they say then I've probably already had it and didn't even know it.

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I got the flu once when I was about 40 and


Aug 10, 2020, 2:45 PM

have never missed a vaccination since. I will take a vaccine if I believe it will help me.

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Re: If a vaccine is required to attend CU games will you get it?


Aug 10, 2020, 2:48 PM

Nope

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Re: If a vaccine is required to attend CU games will you get it?


Aug 10, 2020, 3:00 PM

No one will be allowed to go anywhere unless they have the COVID-19 vaccine number tattooed on their forehead.

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I Would Go In a Bubble Suit With Over Pressure Oxygen


Aug 10, 2020, 3:09 PM

if needed

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Re: I Would Go In a Bubble Suit With Over Pressure Oxygen


Aug 10, 2020, 3:21 PM

Where do I sign up?

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Impossible that could be made a requirement***


Aug 10, 2020, 3:25 PM



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If required, then I'll watch the games at home for a few


Aug 10, 2020, 3:39 PM

seasons to see if the vaccine has any side effects

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Yes, I would get it ... on paper.***


Aug 10, 2020, 3:43 PM



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"When I was young, I was sure of many things; now there are only two things of which I am sure: one is, that I am a miserable sinner; and the other, that Christ is an all-sufficient Saviour. He is well-taught who learns these two lessons." -John Newton


Re: If a vaccine is required to attend CU games will you get it?


Aug 10, 2020, 4:23 PM

Yes, and everyone should be required to get it before coming into the stadium. It is like school, if you want your kid to get the measles, then home school. I vaccinate myself and my children to protect us, and to protect you and your kids. It's called shared purpose and, if you must, shared sacrifice.

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Re: If a vaccine is required to attend CU games will you get it?


Aug 10, 2020, 4:50 PM

Not manditory to take the vaccine, just required to do certain things. Isn't that how schools work now, kids required to have their shots to enroll. You dont have to have it but you can still be a spreader or get it yourself.

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Re: If a vaccine is required to attend CU games will you get it?


Aug 11, 2020, 12:18 AM [ in reply to Re: If a vaccine is required to attend CU games will you get it? ]

It's called being a sheep and an idiot if you buy into this vaccine and virus crap.

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Re: If a vaccine is required to attend CU games will you get it?


Aug 10, 2020, 10:13 PM

No!

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Re: If a vaccine is required to attend CU games will you get it?


Aug 10, 2020, 11:18 PM

Any of y’all ever hear about Darwin? Jus curious LMAO

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Re: If a vaccine is required to attend CU games will you get it?


Aug 10, 2020, 11:41 PM

In a heartbeat. I would do anything for life to return to sort of normalcy....including going to Clemson games.

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Re: If a vaccine is required to attend CU games will you get it?


Aug 10, 2020, 11:59 PM

The logic thrown around on this board is comical. Sad for some of you, funny for me. Glad you folks weren’t my parents and glad you cats aren’t governing a city, county or state; at least I hope not.

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Re: If a vaccine is required to attend CU games will you get it?


Aug 11, 2020, 12:14 AM

I don't get flu shots and I will not be taking this bull #### vaccine. Just another way to let someone put something in your body that you have no clue what it actually is. I will pass.

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Re: If a vaccine is required to attend CU games will you get it?


Aug 11, 2020, 2:46 AM

Do you know what you’re eating when u go out to eat or buy from the grocery store. Aside from what you think the truth is you only have part of the picture. You’ll have a more complete and detailed explanation of the ingredients in the vaccine then you do when u eat a taco from Taco Bell that includes shredded recycled yoga mats. The use of any vaccine is a simple game of odds. Some people understand that and some are too stubborn to even consider the odds. The good news for you is you can do whatever you want, while the rest of us allow Darwin to prove his point.

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Re: If a vaccine is required to attend CU games will you get it?


Aug 11, 2020, 10:19 AM

You do you and I will do me. I don't need someone telling me what I should take and what I should not. It is MY decision not anyone elses. Just like it is MY decision if I want to wear a mask or not. For the record I have not and will not wear one. This mask bull #### is just another way for the government to try and control us and slowly strip us of our freedom. If you idiots can't see what is going on in the world right now then I pity all of you.

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Re: If a vaccine is required to attend CU games will you get it?


Aug 11, 2020, 11:52 AM

I guess drunk driving is a right too? Clearly it steps on my freedom when government controls when, where and what I do as I pound beers...

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That won’t happen but no


Aug 11, 2020, 1:00 AM

Ni en milllon de años

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There's been a million años


Aug 11, 2020, 10:04 AM

poasting on this board lately.

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