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Legend [16902]
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I would respect the Brad Brownell Bros a lot more if they
Apr 18, 2022, 5:38 PM
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said they want to keep him because they like that he runs a clean program. By running a clean program he keeps the NCAA away from campus and that prevents them from finding any incidental issues they might find with our football program. I don’t like the cost argument because if we’re really trying to save money to spend on football we shouldn’t even spend what we are and just let the fans know that basketball will be pretty much an exhibition sport going forward. No reason to spend millions for a program with no intention of winning. You can lose dirt cheap. But if it was about the betterment of our football program I could at least believe they’re actual Clemson fans. Unfortunately their ring leader has made it clear that he doesn’t just favor basketball but that he despises our football program, fans, and coaches. What kind of person wants Clemson to stay the course in its failing programs and hates the ones that are successful? I know calling people coots is often a cheap ploy on this site. But sometimes the shoe fits.
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110%er [8534]
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Re: I would respect the Brad Brownell Bros a lot more if they
Apr 18, 2022, 5:50 PM
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I don't have a dog in this fight and neither does any other fan but we do not have a losing basketball or baseball program. Some fans just expect us to be somebody we have never been because the football, soccer and golf programs have been champions. Changing coaches sometimes brings better days and championships but just look up the all time records of our basketball and baseball programs and you will easily see that changing coaches has never helped. Could changes help, maybe but not likely.
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110%er [8008]
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Re: I would respect the Brad Brownell Bros a lot more if they
Apr 18, 2022, 6:02 PM
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That’s terrible logic. Since we’ve never been good at basketball, we should just accept what we get???
Oh, and by the way…Clemson has been good at baseball in the past. Very good.
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Orange Blooded [3034]
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Re: I would respect the Brad Brownell Bros a lot more if they
Apr 18, 2022, 6:26 PM
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It’s hard for me to judge “good or bad” logic on here. Mostly people just like the logic that they agree with. Yes Clemson has been successful in both baseball and basketball in the past but we would all love to see more. To the OP I will say that I like the way Brownell has run his program in that it seems to be clean, he teaches tough defense (which you have to do when you don’t or can’t recruit against Tobacco Road) and others. I think he is a good person.
I know I have used the excuse that CU is just not a basketball school and yes that is easier to do when football is winning the ACC and going to the playoff most years, but It has been disappointing to see the transfers and bad losses.
So, what to do? Yes we could still have Rick Barnes or OP but for reasons I have heard..they moved on. I don’t see others beating a path to be the next HC. Change just for the sake of change isn’t necessarily the answer.
I will always pull for any Clemson team!
Go Tigers
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110%er [8534]
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Re: I would respect the Brad Brownell Bros a lot more if they
Apr 18, 2022, 8:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: I would respect the Brad Brownell Bros a lot more if they ] |
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It has been years since we were "very" good in baseball and now we are as far behind in baseball talent as we are in basketball talent. The point is changing coaches guarantees nothing except spending money or we would have changed both baseball and basketball coaches 3 or 4 times in the last 20 years to chase a title.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: I would respect the Brad Brownell Bros a lot more if they
Apr 18, 2022, 6:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: I would respect the Brad Brownell Bros a lot more if they ] |
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I really don’t think you know anything about our baseball program. We had two coaches over 58 years. In that time we were one of the most prominent programs in the sports. The only thing we lacked was a National Championship. We were a top ten program in CWS appearances, Super Regional appearances, and consecutive appearances in the ncaa tourney. We may have faltered in Jacks last 4 years but we were absolutely an elite program in the sport prior to that.
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Freshman [-79]
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Yup. Showed a ton of ignorance with that one.
Apr 18, 2022, 8:04 PM
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Wrecks any credibility.
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All-TigerNet [11471]
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Re: I would respect the Brad Brownell Bros a lot more if they
Apr 18, 2022, 6:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: I would respect the Brad Brownell Bros a lot more if they ] |
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I don't have a dog in this fight and neither does any other fan but we do not have a losing basketball or baseball program. Some fans just expect us to be somebody we have never been because the football, soccer and golf programs have been champions. Changing coaches sometimes brings better days and championships but just look up the all time records of our basketball and baseball programs and you will easily see that changing coaches has never helped. Could changes help, maybe but not likely.
Yep, should just have kept Shyatt longer. All he needed was more support...
Brad will get a chance to prove he can win more consistently starting next season, but if he goes to 3 NCAATs out of 4 years how about Clemson doing a better job of keeping him after that success, or any coach for that matter...
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Freshman [-79]
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How old are you, "Boy"?
Apr 18, 2022, 8:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: I would respect the Brad Brownell Bros a lot more if they ] |
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We have one of the top 15 baseball programs of all time.
And basketball has shown numerous times that we can be a solid program. Just need the right coach.
Your take is sad. Really sad.
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110%er [8534]
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Re: How old are you, "Boy"?
Apr 18, 2022, 8:49 PM
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I am 70 years old and try the same logic as all the anti-coach posters who believe nothing short of a National Championship is worthwhile in any sport. I do not believe that logic and neither does the administration because they understand that there are many definitions of success. We are successful because we rarely have losing seasons but the reality is we have not made it out of a baseball Regional since 2010 when we made it to Omaha. No doubt baseball success is better than basketball but neither are great programs.
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Legend [17596]
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A Fresh Start
Apr 18, 2022, 9:47 PM
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Valley Boy We're all Tiger fans (well most of us). But Brownell has coached since my mid-40's, and I'm now 60. Like most, I believe another coach and the university deserve a fresh start.
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Orange Blooded [2407]
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Re: A Fresh Start
Apr 19, 2022, 3:55 AM
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Bingo
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110%er [7972]
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Re: How old are you, "Boy"?
Apr 18, 2022, 9:43 PM
[ in reply to How old are you, "Boy"? ] |
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We have one of the top 15 baseball programs of all time.
And basketball has shown numerous times that we can be a solid program. Just need the right coach.
Your take is sad. Really sad.
Our basketball program has done ok for short periods of time. Then either the coach got kicked to the curb based on NCAA violations or leveraged the success for a better gig. So what makes you thing a successful coach would be willing to risk their career by staying at Clemson assuming they are successful?
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Legend [16902]
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Re: How old are you, "Boy"?
Apr 18, 2022, 10:12 PM
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Do you ever stop and think how truly strange your logic is. It’s like a beaten animal. If they’re good they’ll leave us so I want to keep this guy that isn’t good so he won’t leave me. It’s actually quite sad though not entirely uncommon in personal relationships.
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110%er [6027]
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Legend [16058]
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Brad Brownell will turn us around in 10 more years...
Apr 18, 2022, 6:27 PM
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Just wait!
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110%er [7972]
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Re: I would respect the Brad Brownell Bros a lot more if they
Apr 18, 2022, 7:48 PM
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I guess it’s easy to focus solely on winning when your only connection to Clemson is being a troll on their message board.
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Freshman [-79]
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Winning in sports programs..
Apr 18, 2022, 8:07 PM
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Isn't that kind of the idea?
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Legend [16902]
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: I would respect the Brad Brownell Bros a lot more if they
Apr 18, 2022, 9:39 PM
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I'd have a lot more respect for the Brad bashers if they were consistent in their expectations. Saying Purnell was a great coach and brownell is a terrible coach is about as hypocritical as they come.
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110%er [9686]
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Because it’s not all about crunching numbers
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Apr 18, 2022, 9:46 PM
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to convince yourself that your team is better than you think.
Coming up with “gotcha” stats to prove that Brownell is actually better than we perceive is just ridiculous.
That is not what makes sports fun.
If you were around for the Purnell and Barnes years, you would understand.
It was fun, and that is why we do sports.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Because it’s not all about crunching numbers
Apr 18, 2022, 10:01 PM
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Lmao. Gotcha stats, like overall record and ACC record? Ranked wins is a gotcha stat?
When it comes down to it, Purnell and brownell have a very similar ACC win %. They both haven't really done much in the post season. I guess you can equate an ACC championship game appearance with brownell's sweet 16 appearance. The only other difference to me is that brownell has a substantially better record against ranked teams. Let me say it again, brownell has performed SIGNIFICANTLY better than OP against the best teams in the league. Brownell has had his flaws but so did Purnell. It is frustrating that we have lost a lot of close games under brownell. It was also equally, if not more frustrating to shoot 50% from the line and lose a game by 2.
And yes, I have had a ton of fun watching brownell coached teams. Hectic, gimmicky systems are apparently what you like and there's nothing wrong with that. I enjoyed Purnell too. I really enjoyed Barnes.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: Because it’s not all about crunching numbers
Apr 18, 2022, 10:17 PM
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You’re ignoring his point. Sports fandom is ultimately irrational. Even when you win it all it just starts all over the next year. It hinges on an often irrational belief that you can win it all. Even if that’s a distant goal you buy in as long as the team is showing progress. There is no progress with Brownell. We’ve decided that 16-18 wins is simply good enough. We’ll score 1 maybe 2 quality upsets while drop 3-5 inexplicable losses. To fans (short for fanatics) that isn’t good enough. For casual disinterested observers or people who clearly profit from Brownell’s employment (Judge Keller) it’s fine.
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110%er [9686]
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Thank you.***
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Apr 18, 2022, 10:29 PM
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Because it’s not all about crunching numbers
Apr 18, 2022, 10:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: Because it’s not all about crunching numbers ] |
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At least you admit you are irrational. I don't believe that I am irrational.
It is very much irrational to think Purnell was a great coach and brownell is a terrible coach based on facts.
My viewpoint is simple and I have been consistent over this last year. Brownell needs to get better. I can understand people that want him fired after this year. I can also understand why you bring him back for another year. I am right on the fence. He needs to produce next year. It's tourney or bust next year IMO. You are the one the can't see the other side.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: Because it’s not all about crunching numbers
Apr 18, 2022, 11:47 PM
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Being a sports fan is irrational. You’re in denial.
I never said either thing that you allege.
What happens when/if Brownell “makes the tourney” next. We have twelve years of data. His contract gets extended to another 6 years of which he’s guaranteed to coach at least 3 more. All available data suggests he will immediately regress, again. We have the numbers. Do you think he is suddenly going to be a NCAA coach every year. His baseline isn’t even the NIT. His baseline is nothing. That’s what you tirelessly endorse. I just want the opportunity to believe that Clemson basketball can be special. No one, not even yourself, believes that under Brownell. You just think he can be just good enough not to fire.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: I would respect the Brad Brownell Bros a lot more if they
Apr 18, 2022, 10:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: I would respect the Brad Brownell Bros a lot more if they ] |
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Since you’re replying directly to my OP I’d ask you to find any point where I’ve said Purnell was great or Brownell is terrible. Classic strawman argument. Try again.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: I would respect the Brad Brownell Bros a lot more if they
Apr 18, 2022, 11:40 PM
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Since you’re replying directly to my OP I’d ask you to find any point where I’ve said Purnell was great or Brownell is terrible. Classic strawman argument. Try again.
You've seen and probably participated in plenty of the threads on this topic.
So youthink that they were both equally bad? Or at least brownell is bad and Purnell is bad, but not as bad?
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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It would appear Clemson wasn’t using
Apr 18, 2022, 11:35 PM
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All that newspring bitcoin money after all.
Doesn’t seem like there was much cheating if all of a sudden we can’t afford top recruits.
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