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Replies: 25
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Hall of Famer [22275]
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Some rules expert educate me.
Sep 5, 2022, 2:25 PM
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Noles won. I'm not griping or whining. This is just one of those rules I don't understand.
Situation: Last play of the game. Player ruled out of bounds. Review shows he was inbounds. Call overturned. Two seconds left on the clock. If the play had not been reviewed the clock would have stopped for a first down, the chains would have been set and the clock would start, giving LSU a chance to hurry up to the LOS and get a snap off before clock strikes zero.
I know that is the rule if the play had been called correctly on the field. But, here is where I don't know the rule.
After lengthy discussion (I think the refs were confused as to what the correct rule is) the referee said, "...by rule the clock will stop and LSU will have time for one play."
I can see where this is a logical rule. The situation, because of the review, is different than it would have been with no review. Both teams have had a chance to regroup and prepare for the next play.
But, I thought the rule would be, "...by rule, there are two seconds left and the clock will start on my whistle putting the ball in play."
I didn't notice it last night, but I did looking at a replay this morning. LSU would not have called the same play. They sent a guy in motion and he reversed his motion before the ball was snapped. Clearly took more than two seconds from the time the ball was put in play and the ball was snapped.
I'm just curious. When did that rule come into effect? If it's not at the end of the game it doesn't matter. 2 minutes to go in the game and the ball on the 40 it doesn't matter. Is the rule only for truly the last play of the game (5 seconds, 3 seconds, whatever) or is it a rule that is the same throughout the game and nobody notices that the clock doesn't start after a review until the ball is snapped?
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CU Guru [1135]
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Re: Some rules expert educate me.
Sep 5, 2022, 2:32 PM
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I have no answer for you but I was wondering the same thing at the time. Not starting the clock on the referee's whistle gave LSU an advantage to put a man in motion and read the defense. That whole replay was strange in how long it took...one of the longest I ever remember. At some point, I was thinking Novell would just say, Hey, don't worry about. Let's just play ball.
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All-In [31238]
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Re: Some rules expert educate me.
Sep 5, 2022, 3:26 PM
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Paladins going to do anything this year? Used to basically live across the road from campus and were always my favorite 1AA (FCS) team.
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CU Medallion [67788]
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Re: Some rules expert educate me.
Sep 5, 2022, 2:32 PM
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I personally believe your assessment is correct and the refs blew it. They also wrecked any game integrity by taking 8-10 minutes to figure it out. Ultimately maybe they iced the kicker with their clown show handling of the situation.
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Hall of Famer [22654]
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Re: Some rules expert educate me.
Sep 5, 2022, 2:37 PM
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I heard him say LSU will have time for one play but I thought he looked over at another official and then said they have 2 seconds to get the play off. But it was late and I might not remember it correctly.
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All-In [25941]
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Re: Some rules expert educate me.
Sep 5, 2022, 2:43 PM
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They actually penalized Fla. St. by giving LSU another play. If they had not missed the call, the clock would have run out unless LSU had another time out.
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All-TigerNet [10149]
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Re: Some rules expert educate me.
Sep 5, 2022, 4:10 PM
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That's what I thought too. The clock would have expired. Maybe since they got a 1st down and the clock should stop at that point.
But yeah, I agree.
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Scout Team [156]
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Re: Some rules expert educate me.
Sep 5, 2022, 2:38 PM
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I think this was even further confused due to the fact that Florida State called a timeout, which changes the way the clock would restart. After a successful challenge, the timeout isn't used, but I am not sure how that would affect that clock restarting. As Florida State then called another timeout, I think the clock did start correctly when the play finally resumed.
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Walk-On [146]
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Re: Some rules expert educate me.
Sep 5, 2022, 2:41 PM
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Check Rule 12-3-6. Not a rules expert but I think they missed it.
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Scout Team [156]
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Re: Some rules expert educate me.
Sep 5, 2022, 2:49 PM
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Except that the clock didn't expire. There was 1 second showing on the clock. Had the play been called correctly in real time, the clock would have stopped for a first down, then been placed, and the clock started. I doubt that LSU would have gotten the play off.
With the way it transpired, I think the question is should it have been placed back in play and the clock started after the ruling, or should it have been treated like a restart after a timeout.
Kudos for finding that rule though, I thought you had the answer until I realized that time didn't expire.
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All-In [44026]
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I was wondering the same thing, and agree with your reasoning.
Sep 5, 2022, 2:52 PM
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In fact, I am 99% sure that while the play was being reviewed, one of the announcers said that if he is ruled down in bounds then the ball will be spotted with 2 seconds left for LSU to get the ball snapped.
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All-In [31238]
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Re: I was wondering the same thing, and agree with your reasoning.
Sep 5, 2022, 3:12 PM
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Wish I could help but the whole situation seemed off. One announcer brought up the 10 second run off rule. I’m not sure how they came up with what they did. If he was touched down in bounds then it should have been treated as they would for the first but honestly do not know and after last night still do not know.
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Team Captain [495]
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Re: I was wondering the same thing, and agree with your reasoning.
Sep 5, 2022, 3:34 PM
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The 10 second runoff is when the same mistake was made, but when they did not make the line to gain (no 1st down). In that case, there is a 10s run off.
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All-In [31238]
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Re: I was wondering the same thing, and agree with your reasoning.
Sep 5, 2022, 3:36 PM
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Go a little more in depth I’m still not following but would like to know. Thanks
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Team Captain [495]
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Re: I was wondering the same thing, and agree with your reasoning.
Sep 5, 2022, 4:01 PM
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Suppose the situation is 1st and goal at the 8. The offense throws the same swing pass to the tight end and he gets called out of bounds. Upon review, they overturn the call and say knee down and not out of bounds. In that case, there is an automatic 10s runoff. The rationale is that in the case of a first down, the clock is stopped to reset the chains. Not so without the 1st down. The powers that be decided 10s was the fastest a team could reset and snap the ball.
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All-In [31238]
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Re: I was wondering the same thing, and agree with your reasoning.
Sep 5, 2022, 4:22 PM
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Got you! Much thanks!
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CU Guru [1047]
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Re: Some rules expert educate me.
Sep 5, 2022, 3:17 PM
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Non-expert opinion: If the ball is spotted by the ref and the clock started ticking, the offensive line would not be set before the clock expired. The ball can’t be snapped while bodies are moving into position.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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I don't know the rule either, but I agree that the
Sep 5, 2022, 3:32 PM
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clock should've started on the refs whistle. FSU won the challenge and got absolutely no reward from it as the situation was ultimately exactly the same as if the player had actually made it out of bounds. If the clock started on the whistle, LSU would at least have to rush a little to get the snap off and wouldn't have had time for any audibles, motions, etc.
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All-In [31238]
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Re: I don't know the rule either, but I agree that the
Sep 5, 2022, 3:39 PM
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Hopefully the refs learned something. If nothing else speed the game up. Obviously he was down in bounds. Spot the ball and let’s go. That ordeal took at least 10 minutes.
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Walk-On [128]
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Re: Some rules expert educate me.
Sep 5, 2022, 3:39 PM
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I think clock would have started when ref blew the whistle, leaving them no time for motion, etc. FSU calling timeout probably changed this. Clock now doesn’t start until ball is snapped.
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All-In [31238]
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Re: Some rules expert educate me.
Sep 5, 2022, 3:40 PM
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Well dang why would FSU call a timeout? Was the timeout for the review? Or was that after LSU lined up?
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Orange Blooded [4851]
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My opinion is the refs blew it
Sep 5, 2022, 3:42 PM
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I've seen several instances in the past couple of years where referees show a lack of knowledge of the rules they were there to enforce.
In the end, the fact that FSU called a timeout was probably the reason the clock remained stopped. I got the impression that no one was reviewing the OOB call until after the first time out had been called. That should have been automatic for a play that critical. Also, FSU should have probably challenged the spot rather than calling a time out. That way, when they won the challenge, they would not have been charged with the timeout and the clock would have started as soon as the ref stepped back from spotting the ball.
Again, I think the refs just blew it.
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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Re: Some rules expert educate me.
Sep 5, 2022, 3:46 PM
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The dramatic ending was so much better though. Having the refs just announce “ no time left, the game is over” is such a lame way to end a game. I totally see the complaint though, if called correctly it is unlikely they get another play off to score.
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All-TigerNet [10630]
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Re: Some rules expert educate me.
Sep 5, 2022, 4:50 PM
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Bret, I wondered the exact same thing. Even the commentators had no idea what was happening. McElroy said they would spot the ball and start the clock and mentioned the LSU coaches should tell his team that the whistle to start the clock would be the snap count. That is what I thought should have happened. The advantage for “one more play” was definitely to the advantage of LSU.
Anyway, justice was served with the extra point attempt.
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Team Captain [495]
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Re: Some rules expert educate me.
Sep 5, 2022, 5:06 PM
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I think your 1st sentence is the most important. I think the Noles should have taken 3 knees and kicked a FG. I think the refs nearly gave the game to LSU with that call. In the end, though, I think the team that should have won did win.
The truly interesting thing to me is on the LSU side. BK, Nabors and Boutte have all been given an opportunity. They can learn from the adversity or not. If the players own up to their responsibilities, they will come out better for it. If not, they can, quit, enter the portal, what have you. That might also be good for the team in the long run.
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All-In [31238]
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Re: Some rules expert educate me.
Sep 5, 2022, 5:16 PM
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If I’m a great WR I may bale as well. That QB is not going to make you look great. He hit some in the end but FSU went soft. It was his first game so he may end up being a great QB. Just my observation from last night…
For the record there would have to be some major issues for me to quit, but these guys are auditioning for the NFL.
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