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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
May 29, 2022, 10:01 AM
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Rather, what verse do you notice when people abuse it or misquote it? "Even the Devil can quote scripture." Fordtunate Son's Grandmother.
"You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free." I heard that many times in secular usage and it was always taken out of context.
Christ said 'If ye continue in my word then are ye my disciples indeed, and ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free"
We become a disciple of Jesus by continuing in His word. Then, and only then can we know the truth and then and only then can we be free.
Free from what? That's a whole nuther thread.
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All-In [38187]
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Ezekiel 25:17
May 29, 2022, 11:43 AM
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Muthafuka
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Re: Ezekiel 25:17
May 29, 2022, 3:34 PM
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When I read or hear a Bible verse I always think it's about the other guy.
God-"Thou shall not steal."
ME-'Yeah, tell 'em, Lord, and make my neighbor bring my mower back. I got a new place for it, right beside the cooler I borrowed last summer.'
Have you ever made that mistake?
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Re: Ezekiel 25:17
May 29, 2022, 3:38 PM
[ in reply to Ezekiel 25:17 ] |
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Ya know "...I been sayin' that shid for years. And if you ever heard it, it meant your axx. I never really questioned what it meant. I thought it was just a cold-blooded thing to say to a mthrfckr 'fore you popped a cap in his axx..."
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110%er [7128]
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Re: Ezekiel 25:17
May 29, 2022, 8:16 PM
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Gotta hand it to you, that was some funny stuff in Pulp Fiction.
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
May 29, 2022, 4:00 PM
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There's a ton of them, nearly all related to context or translational error I think. Although I'm sure there's plenty of deliberate deception attempts knowing how man tends to be man. A good one is Matt 5:27:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”
I've read that the word "lustfully" here is from the Greek "epitheumeo", which means to covet in general, not to lust in specific.
So the verse really reads more like:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman and covets [adultery] has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”
I like to think that is free license to ogle all you want, so long as you aren't breaking any contracts or contemplating doing so  ">">
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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I believe it comes down to whether a man...
May 29, 2022, 7:35 PM
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is seeing a woman for the beauty God created or thinking about how much he wants to...
I am guilty of both.
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110%er [7128]
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Re: Abused Bible verse: Matthew 7:1
May 29, 2022, 4:48 PM
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I'll go with Matthew 7:1 for $500, Alex.
Matthew 7:1 “Judge not lest ye be judged”
This verse is twisted by many into getting others to accept a form of aberrant behavior.
Of course, the verse is not meant to discourage circumspection when considering whether or not to 'go along with' what the 'crowd' wants to do.
Instead, it is meant that you have no business judging the worthiness of the person to be on Earth, or to judge their soul as being good or bad.
We get to make decisions about what we choose to do, and whether we agree or disagree with those decisions that others take.
But the "judging" business is God's. (Thank God!)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On the other hand, if you're asking about which of the Biblical teachings (verses) where I fall short, then that's a different matter. Using a line from the final Breaking Bad episode as a metaphor ... as Walter White told the Grey Matter founders in the last BB episode ... "You'll need a bigger knife."
(TNet's servers would explode if I tried to chronicle all of my Biblical failings on TNet.)
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Re: Abused Bible verse: Matthew 7:1
May 29, 2022, 7:46 PM
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I agree. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Nothing confuses that. The issue of judging another has nothing to do with knowing that one who steals is a thief. One who rapes is a rapist...one who lies is a liar.
Judging a man's actions is different than judging his soul. The danger is when a man who loves God judges another, he risk losing any influence, witness or testimony he may have for the man he judges. You never know when you meet someone whether or not you might influence them to a life with God.
Judging another also leads to pride. He steals, I don't, therefor I'm better than him. The line between the righteous and the unrighteous is at the cross not some arbitrary location where we want it to be.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Let me amend my previous response to you comments.
Jun 9, 2022, 8:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: Abused Bible verse: Matthew 7:1 ] |
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Identifying sin is simple and easy. I've done my fair share of 'looking down,' on others which put me in a state of self-righteousness.
I've heard that if you put 25 strangers in a room, five lawyers, five doctors, five school teacher, five construction workers and five accountants together they would soon find those with which they had most in common. Granny said, 'Birds of a feather...'
Reading through the Psalms chpt 19 we learn a valuable lesson in relationships one to another. David plainly says that the Heavens testify of God in the first few verses. Then he goes on to show the value of God's law, testimony, statues, commandments and judgements. He called the law 'perfect,' the testimony sure, the statues 'right,' and the judgements 'true.' He said the fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever.
Then he got to the flower which blossoms when one 'fears the LORD.' Out of desire to please HIM who has done so much for us we seek out God to look within us find the sin within our hearts, that which we can not see without God's divine perception.
David called them secret sins. One might view them as sin which hidden from others but I've seen sin in my heart which was hidden from me. The heart of man is despicably evil therefore I believe that the judging another is a door which swings both ways.
I've heard it said 'He is good people,' and 'He is a good man,' or 'He has a good heart.' Those are lies of the Devil and contrary to man's sinful nature. God help us! We don't know the full magnitude of sin within our own hearts; how then can we judge another as 'good,' when even Christ said 'Why call me good? There is none good but God.'
That's where we err. When we judge another as good we identify with another who is sinful and judge ourselves as righteous. That is how we fail to fear God. We compare ourselves to Him establishing our position of righteous in relation to how we've judged others who are just like us, as righteous.
The Apostle Paul called himself the chiefest of sinners, esteeming others above himself because God had given him sight into his own heart. Imo, outside Christ Paul was the greatest hero of the Bible. Those lessons on judging others is one of the many reasons I so love Paul's work.
I was born again 50 years ago this past Feb. God is still digging through my heart upturning the rotten parts so the Son can shine and kill the contamination(s) of sin.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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"I can do all things through Christ...."
May 29, 2022, 6:15 PM
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This is usually quoted in reference to some accomplishment. Paul was actually talking about living in harsh conditions, and being thankful for whatever God was doing. He could do even that, Paul was saying.
We are about to be tested in this. Just saying.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Re: "I can do all things through Christ...."
May 29, 2022, 7:55 PM
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Right you are. It's about facing adversity and knowing that the only avenue through that adversity is in Christ.
Another of mine is 'Eye hath not seen nor ear heard the things God has in store for those who love him...'
I've heard that sermon preached many times but never once from the pulpit have I heard a preacher finish the thought. In context... I Corinthians 2
"7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."
(In those verses Paul specifically addresses the world's lack of understanding of spiritual mysteries)
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
So what do we know that they don't know? The answer is certainly a thread starter.
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Orange Blooded [3615]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
May 29, 2022, 7:41 PM
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2. You can kill a woman if she seizes a man's private parts without his permission: Deuteronomy 25:11-1: If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
May 29, 2022, 7:58 PM
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Who is abusing that? In our world a woman would be the queen of twitter, insta and facebook for snatching a man's sak off.
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Orange Blooded [3615]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
May 29, 2022, 8:01 PM
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It's just an ice breaker when I meet a woman. I inform them of the risks. I don't want to hear any of this "me too" mumbo jumbo. I make that clear.
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All-In [29860]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
May 29, 2022, 8:21 PM
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That's a good one. What cracks me up is that it had to happen for it to be included Deut. In my profession we had extensive contracts and cya notes, not because things MIGHT happen but because they did in the past, and we were adding more and more specific, rather than general, language to prevent the same thing from happening in the future.
It's the same thing in the Bible. When Paul writes to his churches telling them not to do x, y, or z, it's because that's EXACTLY what they ARE doing. So those passages show you the state, and diversity, or what was going on in the early churches.
I'm not sure what the current Jewish theological stance is on d-grabbing, but it may be more relaxed than in antiquity. For instance, sacrifices stopped with the Roman destruction of the 2nd Temple in 70AD. So while technically they SHOULD be sacrificing by law, there's no instruction on what to do if the Temple itself doesn't exist. So they are suspending that directive till further instructions are received. It might be the same thing with cawk-clutching by angry wives.
But I can see someone 5000 years ago, clutching his tender Johnson after such an encounter, telling his scribe "Oh he77 yeas put some provision to stop this from ever happening again in there. That hurts like a MFer!"
Keep in mind too that this restriction would only apply if you were a practicing Jew. Christians would be exempted from it by the fulfilment of the law by Jesus, as they are with all other 618 or so laws.
If you were a Buddhist, Jain, Confucianist, or Hindu, you'd probably just shrug your shoulders and go "Huh?" I mean, it's probably a good idea to discourage peter pinching, but is it so common that it needs to be written down?
I'd say it gives us some insight into that's particular writer's life experiences, lol.
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
May 29, 2022, 8:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse. ] |
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OK, as one of TNet's nowhere-near-ecumenical-scholar posters, I'll give it a shot.
Deuteronomy is (to me) the 'Cliff Notes' version of Leviticus (which is a tough read) and to some degree Numbers and Exodus.
Deuteronomy is a recap of ancient Hebrew law, and while historically fascinating, it's 'rules' are superseded by Christ's perfect teaching of God's word.
The other aspect of the Old Testament that (at least IMO) tends to get lost is that the Holy Word is chronicled via books in a way that is understandable to the lack of sophistication / primitive status of man so that man at that time can understand what's being expected of him.
For example, Genesis is written to be understood and followed by the most primitive of man.
Exodus is more complicated, but still written to be understood by a not-quite-as-primitive man as that from the Genesis time-frame.
So on and so on.
With Deuteronomy, it summarizes much of the previous books (esp. Leviticus) and has instructions similar to the way that we train dogs. In other words, rather than nuanced instructions with nuanced consequences for not following those instructions, the action and consequence is very precise. Therefore, the 'instructions' are also primitive. Cutting off the hand of a woman who grabs the genitalia of another man who is fighting her husband may be a warning that women should not be involved in fighting other men, and to be blunt in that the wife of one man should never ... under any circumstance ... 'soil herself' by touching the ######## of a non-husband man.
As man becomes more sophisticated, then the ability of man to understand a more sophisticated and nuanced message becomes possible for that 'era' of mankind.
There are many examples of Old Testament 'rules' which become obsolete with the arrival of Christ on earth. Among the others are the cereal offerings, animal offerings, etc. to demonstrate man's love and fear of God. These various offerings are chronicled in mind-numbing detail in Leviticus, and then summarized to some extent in Deuteronomy. Acceptance and 'surrender' to Christ renders such offerings as being irrelevant.
Sorry for the wandering about. I hope that this makes some sense to you. If it doesn't make sense to you, then that's not your fault.
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All-In [29860]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
May 29, 2022, 8:38 PM
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>Deuteronomy is (to me) the 'Cliff Notes' version of Leviticus
Right on the mark, Danny. And it's something I'll be getting to once I get into the Bible proper (after the Meso religions, Yahwism, and Judasim).
Without letting to much good stuff out of the bag too early, there is a school of thought that holds that the "Deuteronomist Faction" was a group of writers who "summarized" things just as you said.
There were original works by a faction that believed in Yahweh, and a faction taht belief in Elohim, two slightly different interpretations of God in ancient Israel. Not exactly like Catholics and Protestants, but similar in the sense that Catholics have a Bible, and Protestants have a Bible...there's a lot that is shared, but a lot that is excluded from both also.
Beyond those two factions was a third faction...the Deuteronomists, who contributed their spin on things, after the J's (yahwists) and E's (Elohimists) wrote their works.
And then to top it off a 4th faction, the Preistly (P's) took those three interpretations and added yet another.
Within that J-E-D-P model there are even further gradations, based on the specific language used, and the specific topics covered, that identify these further splinter factions.
A good example, among many, is the apparent inclusion of the Tower of Babel story in a a pre-existing narrative on genealogy, as in my previous 4 Religious Pron posts.
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
May 29, 2022, 8:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse. ] |
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Anyhow, I'd consider it a particularly direct and compelling pass, as opposed to an affront. Certainly gets your attention more than "What's your number, or, is this seat taken?"
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
Jun 6, 2022, 3:25 PM
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"God helps those who help themselves" - which is not in the Bible.
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
Jun 6, 2022, 7:14 PM
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John 3:16
Jesus actually gives multiple ways to get to heaven.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
Jun 7, 2022, 12:05 AM
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Show me some of them.
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
Jun 7, 2022, 6:55 AM
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He tells a rich guy to sell everything he has and give to the poor to inherit eternal life.
Also the separation of the sheep and the goats passage doesn’t say anything about belief but how you treat people.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
Jun 7, 2022, 9:45 AM
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Christ saw into the rich man's heart and knew he esteemed his wealth above all else.
Matt 6: "21. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
To be saved one must first trust in God; that He is, that He sent His Son to take our punishment of eternal damnation upon Himself and that only our trust in Him is the condition for receiving salvation. The rich man trusted in his wealth. His property, cash and investments were his treasure. He put them above God.
America being the wealthiest nation on earth is filled with those who trust in their wealth. I know this strikes at the heart of many including myself. Our faith is torn between God and wealth. I do not believe God cares how much wealth a man has if that man can put all that he has in God's hand.
That is not to say that all should sell all they have and give to the poor. However, if I hold something other than my salvation by Christ as my greatest treasure I could see me being ordered to get rid of it.
If you read Matt 6:21 in context Jesus talked about the eye being evil and that evil eye should be plucked out. The analogy is intended to expose the truth that nothing, including our physical sight or our hand should be more important that our eternal home.
Jesus gave His body to be beaten, tortured on a cross and suffered the death of a thief/murderer for us. How can a reasonable man love his wealth more than he loves the One who died for him?
To be saved a man must believe that Jesus is the Christ, begotten of God, came in human body, born to a virgin, lived a life in God's perfect will and died upon a cross for them.
Jesus commands His disciples to love God with all our hearts and to love our neighbors as ourselves. I'm guessing the sheep put God first before even their wives, husbands, children, parents, friends homes, 401K, bank accounts, boats, cars, country club memberships, IPTAY, Clemson U and even Clemson Football.
The goats are probably the category which put any or all of those things before God.
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
Jun 8, 2022, 11:56 AM
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“ To be saved one must first trust in God; that He is, that He sent His Son to take our punishment of eternal damnation upon Himself and that only our trust in Him is the condition for receiving salvation.”
Where in the Bible does it actually say all that? Jesus simply says in John 3:16 to believe in him.
And I’ve never met one person that doesn’t trust their wealth in contemporary society. There is a huge difference in the way Jesus and his disciples lived. They literally had nothing.
Pastors today make six figures today and it easy to see that most church goers today are older, well
off members of society.
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Hall of Famer [24051]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
Jun 8, 2022, 1:30 PM
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You should read the book of Romans.
My dad has never made six figures being a pastor. Not even close. The church he pastors now, he makes about enough money to pay for the gas to get him back and forth. He also, gave up a fairly lucrative small construction business to become a pastor. So now you know of at least one.
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
Jun 8, 2022, 7:49 PM
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The point is Jesus called people to do things that are literally impossible in todays society.
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Hall of Famer [24051]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
Jun 8, 2022, 8:58 PM
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Do you have any sort of belief in God or a higher power?
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
Jun 9, 2022, 12:51 PM
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I think there has to be something outside of the physical world we see.
I don't think the Christian worldview has it right.
I started to say I don't think the bible has it right, but there are many versions of the bible.
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
Jun 9, 2022, 2:45 PM
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What is the Christian worldview? Lots of different denominations, but what does that mean to you?
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
Jun 9, 2022, 8:37 PM
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I guess they all believe Christ is the son of god and that some sort of belief in him is essential to gaining eternal life and not enduring some degree of everlasting punishment.
But if you look at the New Testament, when Jesus speaks of hell he’s talking about a physical place outside of Jerusalem. He gives different depictions of what is required and who will gain eternal life, and it’s not until the later written gospel of John that he’s recorded saying belief in him is required.
Oddly, modern Christianity seems to draw more and put more emphasis on the teachings of Paul than the one who supposedly saved them from their sin.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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?
Jun 9, 2022, 11:16 PM
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You make it sound like you believe Jesus wrote one of the 4 Gospels. You said 'Jesus said,' and use that as support for your belief, then say that 'John wrote that Jesus said,' as if you pick and choose what portion of either of the Gospels you believe to be valid and use them to nullify the parts you which do not fit your theories.
That's a contradiction within your source. If you do not believe the Bible then how can you quote Jesus. If you do believe a part of the Bible I want to know why. Either it is true or Matt, Mark, Luke and John were liars. Why believe a liar?
Jesus said, according to all four Gospels that He was the Christ. Do you know who the Christ was to the Children of Isarel?
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
Jun 9, 2022, 11:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse. ] |
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"I guess they all believe Christ is the son of god and that some sort of belief in him is essential to gaining eternal life and not enduring some degree of everlasting punishment."
It's not really 'some sort of belief that Christ is The Son of God.' It not a matter of true or false question on a test that you know you can get right if you answer according to what the professor believes. The demons who Christ cast out knew who He was without doubt. Believing is not the end of the process of salvation. Satan knew when he tempted Christ.
It's a mystery to the world.
"5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."
We can hash that out at your leisure.
"But if you look at the New Testament, when Jesus speaks of hell he’s talking about a physical place outside of Jerusalem. He gives different depictions of what is required and who will gain eternal life, and it’s not until the later written gospel of John that he’s recorded saying belief in him is required."
You believe some of what Matt, Mark, Luke and John wrote but only in select places but not in others? You think they lied but choose which lies to believe? Either they lied or the told the truth. There is no half way between the two.
"Oddly, modern Christianity seems to draw more and put more emphasis on the teachings of Paul than the one who supposedly saved them from their sin."
Paul's entire focus was on Christ. He preached the Good News to gentiles and Jew but most of his ministry was dedicated to gentiles. He always preached Jesus crucified, buried, risen and ascended to God.
John chpt 1:
"1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
Same chapter vs 14:
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
Modern Christians are mostly gentile not Jew. 11 of the Apostles were given to preach Christ to The Children of Israel. During the three years Jesus preached He focused on being Christ to the Jews.
The COI refused to believe so the invitation to salvation was extended to the gentile to whom Paul was sent. He wrote many books of the Bible and evangelized across the land and seas. To read Paul's writings is to read about Christ. Paul's sermons in his writing were customized for the gentiles who had not real understanding of the Law of God which God gave to Moses.
Someone had to teach us how to behave.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
Jun 10, 2022, 6:48 AM
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I'm not saying I believe one part and not the other. In the context of the thread, I'm saying that Jesus as quoted doesn't even paint a clear picture of what is required for eternal life, which is why I mentioned John 3:16 as an over used verse.
Belief in Jesus as a requirement for salvation is literally mentioned one time in the four gospels. Yet it's the central part of the faith in modern christianity.
Mark is believed to have been written first and it's extremely simple. Matthew and Luke are believed to have drawn off of Mark, and then John comes along decades later and really ramps up the spirituality and divinity of Jesus.
Seems like Jesus would have made it clear early on in his ministry and not needed John and Paul to come along and let everybody know how to get to heaven.
Jesus may never have even claimed to be what they made him out to be.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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First, I agree that John 3:16 is used extensively.
Jun 10, 2022, 7:43 PM
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I'm not saying I believe one part and not the other. In the context of the thread, I'm saying that Jesus as quoted doesn't even paint a clear picture of what is required for eternal life, which is why I mentioned John 3:16 as an over used verse.
The action of being born again is a mystery to the carnal mind. My take of Jesus telling Nicodemus that he had to be born again then explaining it by saying you must be born of the Spirit is a fairly simple concept. Man is born with the spirit of man. When a man 'believes in,' Christ, God bonds His Holy Spirit the man's spirit which creates a new being. Man is born again.
However, simply believing that Jesus is the Christ is not being born again. One must be willing to humble himself unto God and place his life in God's hand. It's a matter of one giving up his will and enable God to create the new man.
Belief in Jesus as a requirement for salvation is literally mentioned one time in the four gospels. Yet it's the central part of the faith in modern christianity.
How many would one have to list for you to give up that notion?
"John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 4:23 "...But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he....
28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,
29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?"
Seems like Jesus would have made it clear early on in his ministry and not needed John and Paul to come along and let everybody know how to get to heaven.
Jesus may never have even claimed to be what they made him out to be.
You should read this for context. Clearly she believed that Jesus was the Christ and testified to that when she left the well.
You really ought to read the Bible rather than believing what people say about it. You have some err in your understanding of scripture which grows from a lack of having read it for yourself.
Does one example clear that up?
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: First, I agree that John 3:16 is used extensively.
Jun 10, 2022, 8:27 PM
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Is there an example other than the gospel of John?
Does the Old Testament say that belief in the messiah will be required for salvation?
It seems this central doctrine was a later development in Christianity.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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What does one have to believe to be saved?
Jun 11, 2022, 6:19 PM
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Some might say 'Believing in God will save you.' How so, knowing that one can not 'believe,' in God if he thinks God is a liar. Did not God say, 'This is my beloved son,' when Jesus was baptized? How does a man make it to heaven and avoid hell?
Mark 16:
"9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be ######."
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: What does one have to believe to be saved?
Jun 12, 2022, 4:17 PM
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Interestingly that passage is not considered to be original. Your KJV bible probably says that in the footnote.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Re: What does one have to believe to be saved?
Jun 12, 2022, 8:01 PM
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Matt chpt 3:
"14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
How does one get saved?
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: What does one have to believe to be saved?
Jun 13, 2022, 7:07 AM
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So it doesn’t bother you that there are passages included in the Bible that were not original and authentic?
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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I refuse to argue with you about the validity Word of God.
Jun 13, 2022, 8:47 AM
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I responded to your question when you pointed out that it deserved an answer and expect a civilized man to respond to my question likewise.
What must a man do to be saved?
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: I refuse to argue with you about the validity Word of God.
Jun 13, 2022, 12:09 PM
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Sell all his possessions and give to the poor.
It’s a legitimate question. Shame on you for avoiding it. That attitude is what led me from the faith.
There are several important passages like the one in Mark that was added to harmonize the gospels.
Also in one of John’s epistles there was a verse added about the trinity.
Why would someone believe this was the work of god if things were added later?
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Re: I refuse to argue with you about the validity Word of God.
Jun 13, 2022, 9:40 PM
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I explained why the Lord told the man to sell his possessions but you ignore the truth. I'll try again.
Christ was able to read the intent of everything and everyone. I was not surprised to know that since He created man. Why wouldn't he know the intent of our hearts and the secrets we tell no one?
The man loved his earthy treasure more than he loved God. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me.' The rich young man profess to have kept the law from his birth yet he did not keep the first commandment.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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What did He call upon you to do that's impossible?
Jun 8, 2022, 10:02 PM
[ in reply to Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse. ] |
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The only thing you can do to please God is trust in Him. 'It is God that works in up both to will and to do His good pleasure.'
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
Jun 8, 2022, 9:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse. ] |
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It avoids all logic to say that one can believe in Christ without believing in His Father.
Proverbs 3:5
"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding."
There are many verses about trusting in God but this verse is for you.
Trusting in wealth is dangerous no matter who does it.
"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul."
Jesus came for one purpose, to 'Seek and save the lost.' His disciples had one charge. Christ told the to go into the world preaching the good news (Christ has come) and reconcile the world unto God.
So, preachers make a lot of money? Many own property, have bank accounts and retirement plans. Many of those good folks trust in God. One doesn't have to be poor to trust in God but imo, it is obviously easier to not trust in wealth if one is poor.
That in no way condemns the wealthy but this nation is ripe with those who would trust in their wealth for security. Many will be secure in this world but not after.
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
Jun 9, 2022, 12:53 PM
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Jesus called his followers to lay down everything and follow him. And according to the gospels they literally did.
Nobody does that today. It would be impossible. You'd be a hobo standing on the street corner that nobody paid any attention to.
That's pretty much what Jesus and his disciples were.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Re: What is your most abused or misused Bible verse.
Jun 9, 2022, 8:32 PM
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Much has changed since Christ walked this earth. The first disciples were comprised of mostly the poor, some of who followed Him because He fed them. Some believed that He was The Christ, even the Pharisees knew that there was a Savior to come.
John Chpt 1:
"19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, 'Who art thou?'
20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.
25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?"
When Jesus was crucified... Matt 27:
"50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;.."
The temple veil separated the place where God came in the form of a cloud to do business with the Priest. It was ripped from top to bottom as in some great force grabbed it with hands pulled hard. I do not believe God payed visitation to the temple after that. I believe the Holy Spirit who came after Christ's ascension communicates with man now and I know it's not exclusive to priest, preachers, pastors and deacons. God's Spirit communes with me in my heart.
That did not happen until Christ was born, crucified, resurrected and ascended because He promised to send the Holy Spirit to comfort us and guide us through this life. God's Spirit has many hats. Conviction, comfort, consolation, reproof, correction, encouragement and so many others there is not room or enough time to list them all and that I am unable, along with all men, to understand the total of God's work through His Spirit.
Yes, things have changed a bit.
If no one paid any attention to Christ and the 12 including Paul then why did they all lose their lives at the hands of others for what they preached?
There is a significant difference between Jesus' 12 Apostles and we who are disciples.
He has not ordered me to sell all I have but I try to obey when He lays it upon my heart to do for others.
The fact that you're so concerned about what you'd have to give up to accept Jesus is telling.
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All-In [40929]
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eye for an eye
Jun 8, 2022, 12:54 PM
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Its the only one I know
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